Kanter is part of the core for OKC

[bondom34]

And "contesting at the rim when in position to do so" basically is never because he's too slow to ever be able to do so.

[hardenASG13]

I'd say on the ball defense, defensive rebounding, contesting at the rim when in position to do so. He's better, but not substantially. They are both problems with their contracts. Not denying kanter was exposed big-time in the houston series. But adams really was pretty lazy himself defensively this year as well. Stuck with him though so it's a moot point.

so your statement that adams isn't much better defensively in "alot of those situations" is actually only three situations?

what would you say is the relative value of those three 'close' defensive attributes compared to what adams does well on defense? DRPM has rated kanter among the five worst big men defensively for years and on a large minutes sample. what would you say to that?

Oh my god dude...how many other situations are there than on the ball, rebounding, and contesting at the rim. There's helpside, where adams has much better awareness, pick and roll, where he's better but still bad...want to compare guarding inbounds passes and verbal communication hahaha. Yea I agree kanters really bad defensively....not sure what you getting at here, im not arguing with you on that at all.....what is you point here. I merely mentioned that adams also had a bad year defensively.

[bondom34]

Wait you're even comparing pick and roll? Like where Kanter couldn't get on the court?

And Adams bad year defensively was like saying Curry had a bad year shooting and comparing his shooting to Marcus Smart.

[bondom34]

Oh and RPM updated.

Adams at 17th among centers and 24th defensively.

Kanter at 42nd and 67th. There are 4 centers worse, Joffrey, Okafor, and KAT. I'm pretty sure my grandma could score on a pick and roll against Enes.

[slick_watts]

I'd say on the ball defense, defensive rebounding, contesting at the rim when in position to do so. He's better, but not substantially. They are both problems with their contracts. Not denying kanter was exposed big-time in the houston series. But adams really was pretty lazy himself defensively this year as well. Stuck with him though so it's a moot point.

so your statement that adams isn't much better defensively in "alot of those situations" is actually only three situations?

what would you say is the relative value of those three 'close' defensive attributes compared to what adams does well on defense? DRPM has rated kanter among the five worst big men defensively for years and on a large minutes sample. what would you say to that?

Oh my god dude...how many other situations are there than on the ball, rebounding, and contesting at the rim. There's helpside, where adams has much better awareness, pick and roll, where he's better but still bad...want to compare guarding inbounds passes and verbal communication hahaha. Yea I agree kanters really bad defensively....not sure what you getting at here, im not arguing with you on that at all.....what is you point here. I merely mentioned that adams also had a bad year defensively.

could you list all the different situations for me? the problem is you said 'alot of situations'. i would take a lot of mean more than three. and if there are only a few, why even say 'a lot'?

transition defense? closing out on shooters? switching? passing lanes? recovery? forcing turnovers? occupying space? i mean, if you're going to claim that adams and kanter are 'close' on 'alot' of defensive situations, you have to give me something to work with here if i'm going to believe you.

[sleestak33]

so your statement that adams isn't much better defensively in "alot of those situations" is actually only three situations?

what would you say is the relative value of those three 'close' defensive attributes compared to what adams does well on defense? DRPM has rated kanter among the five worst big men defensively for years and on a large minutes sample. what would you say to that?

Oh my god dude...how many other situations are there than on the ball, rebounding, and contesting at the rim. There's helpside, where adams has much better awareness, pick and roll, where he's better but still bad...want to compare guarding inbounds passes and verbal communication hahaha. Yea I agree kanters really bad defensively....not sure what you getting at here, im not arguing with you on that at all.....what is you point here. I merely mentioned that adams also had a bad year defensively.

could you list all the different situations for me? the problem is you said 'alot of situations'. i would take a lot of mean more than three. and if there are only a few, why even say 'a lot'?

transition defense? closing out on shooters? switching? passing lanes? recovery? forcing turnovers? occupying space? i mean, if you're going to claim that adams and kanter are 'close' on 'alot' of defensive situations, you have to give me something to work with here if i'm going to believe you.

Adams is ridiculously overrated defensively and game 4 against Houston is a perfect example. 34 year old Nene went 12-12 against Adams scoring 28 points and getting 10 rebounds in only 25 minutes and just destroyed him. That's inexcusable yet he never got pulled by the coach and you don't hear Donovan over there yelling "Can't play Adams!". I can go through regular season box scores and show you several dozen games where Adams got completely destroyed defensively. I'll be you can't go through and find 7 or 8 where Kanter did because he barely even plays (only 21 minutes). Kanter is 17th in the NBA in points scored per minute and is a dominant scorer and rebounder so he can be deficient defensively because he more than makes up for it. It's the same reason why James Harden is either going to win MVP or runner up and has his team at 55 wins and into the 2nd round of the playoffs. He's a terrible defender (probably the only defender in the NBA who could have allowed Roberson to average 11 points per game in a playoff series...of course he didn't guard him) yet it doesn't matter because he's so good everywhere else.

[Bergmaniac]

Did you even watch Game 4? Almost all of Nene's points came after Adams rotated from him to help against a driving guard as he was supposed to do.

[slick_watts]

I can go through regular season box scores and show you several dozen games where Adams got completely destroyed defensively.

really? that would honestly be quite interesting. i look forward to your report!

[sleestak33]

Did you even watch Game 4? Almost all of Nene's points came after Adams rotated from him to help against a driving guard as he was supposed to do.

LMAO...quit making excuses for the guy. Heck I could say the exact same thing about Kanter's issues. The simple truth is Adams got completely destroyed by Nene and yes, I watched every minute of every game. For a guy to make 100 million and get lit up by a 34 year old who shot 12-12 and had 28 pts. and 10 rbds. in only 25 minutes of play...that's just inexcusable. Adams is NOT some great defender and he gave up huge games dozens of times this year and got absolutely dominated many times while also regressing dramatically in the last few months with his scoring, rebounding and free throws. The only guy who ever gets criticized though is Kanter for some reason.

[slick_watts]

Adams is NOT some great defender and he gave up huge games dozens of times this year and got absolutely dominated many times ....

not that i doubt you, but can you please provide a list of the 'dozens of times' this year steven adams gave up huge games? and the 'many times' he got absolutely dominated? then we can have a proper discussion and debate re: you claims. if you cannot produce, i'll assume you are just blowing hot air.

[Bergmaniac]

Did you even watch Game 4? Almost all of Nene's points came after Adams rotated from him to help against a driving guard as he was supposed to do.

LMAO...quit making excuses for the guy. Heck I could say the exact same thing about Kanter's issues. The simple truth is Adams got completely destroyed by Nene and yes, I watched every minute of every game. For a guy to make 100 million and get lit up by a 34 year old who shot 12-12 and had 28 pts. and 10 rbds. in only 25 minutes of play...that's just inexcusable. Adams is NOT some great defender and he gave up huge games dozens of times this year and got absolutely dominated many times while also regressing dramatically in the last few months with his scoring, rebounding and free throws. The only guy who ever gets criticized though is Kanter for some reason.

It's not an excuse, it's a plain fact. Adams wasn't perfect, he made some mistakes on D, but he wasn't the one who was supposed to stop Nene on most of his buckets in this game. Just because the other centre scored a lot doesn't automatically mean Adams had a bad game defensively, that's not how it works in the modern NBA with all the switching and trapping going on. Adams had a defensive rating of 97.3 in that game, which against a top offensive team like Houston is great (for comparison Kanter had defensive rating of 130.4 in the game).

[oken]

The fanbase of OKC here at realgm is so shallow that we will always have to endure these kind of threads. homerism for the countrymen is at such a level that there is near zero logic in many discussions. I am Turkish and even I like Kanter's political stance against the party rule here in Turkey, i am finding it extremely hard to find any positives about his post-injury performance this year.
- he is acting as he has to prove something in very short stretches and does not pass as he did in the beginning of season
- he is trying to re-invent himself by constantly posting, trying 3-pts etc. but losing his real asset which is bruising, fast paced p&r
- he is not working as hard on defense in the second half of season. i can even say there is regression from last year.
I guess some of the above are related to the Gibson trade. maybe he thinks he is now really the odd man out and psychologically affected by that. unfortunately together with Oladipo, Kanter is a weaker mind. He suffered very much from the coup in Turkey and he knows that he possibly does not have a native country to return to anymore so anything that seems to undermine his position and future in the NBA (like the injury, being tagged even more as a stupid dumbass) puts considerable weight on his shoulders he never was known to carry well until today.

[sleestak33]

Adams is NOT some great defender and he gave up huge games dozens of times this year and got absolutely dominated many times ....

not that i doubt you, but can you please provide a list of the 'dozens of times' this year steven adams gave up huge games? and the 'many times' he got absolutely dominated? then we can have a proper discussion and debate re: you claims. if you cannot produce, i'll assume you are just blowing hot air.

Embiid scored 20 against Adams in 22 minutes--Anthony-Towns had 33--Baynes (Detroit) outscored Adams 20-4--Capela had 13/14 to Adams' 6/6--Lopez 22 in 28 minutes--Cousins 36/14 to Adams' 11/4--Davis 37--Plumlee outscored him 16-8--Anthony Towns had 26/12 to Adams 10/8--Jokic (Denver) outscored him 23-10--Marc Gasol outscored him 23-5--Zeller outscored him 11-2--Lopez outscored him 25-11--DAvis outscored him 38-13--Gasol outscored him 31-16--Anthony-Towns had 29/17 to Adams' 4/5

I could go on and on but I think that's plenty and there are many more games where Adams just gets outplayed by lesser centers. To act as if he is some sort of excellent defender and that Kanter is somehow just terrible is a complete and total joke as you can see. You can post a bunch of crap about team defensive ratings when Adams is one the floor but the numbers simply don't lie. Adams is NOT a very good defender and he certainly wasn't worth 100 million dollars. Kanter is a much more valuable player to the team and is an elite scorer (17th in the NBA in points scored per minute) and rebounder (arguably the best offensive rebounder in the league) yet he is the only one who seems to be criticized for poor defense.

[slick_watts]

Embiid scored 20 against Adams in 22 minutes--Anthony-Towns had 33--Baynes (Detroit) outscored Adams 20-4--Capela had 13/14 to Adams' 6/6--Lopez 22 in 28 minutes--Cousins 36/14 to Adams' 11/4--Davis 37--Plumlee outscored him 16-8--Anthony Towns had 26/12 to Adams 10/8--Jokic (Denver) outscored him 23-10--Marc Gasol outscored him 23-5--Zeller outscored him 11-2--Lopez outscored him 25-11--DAvis outscored him 38-13--Gasol outscored him 31-16--Anthony-Towns had 29/17 to Adams' 4/5

this is a great start and i appreciate it. can you please provide dates of these games so that i may check out the boxscores and look a bit more closely at the data? not that i don't trust you. also, i think you need to examine your definition of 'dozens'.

I could go on and on but...

please do! facts are where these discussions should take place. not arm waving. listing out the games and providing / scrutinizing evidence is the way this must be done if we're going to get anywhere. quit wasting time with your rhetoric and provide more of the above if you want your statements to be taken seriously. i will happily change my mind if you can provide the evidence.

To act as if he is some sort of excellent defender and that Kanter is somehow just terrible is a complete and total joke as you can see.

uh, no. you provided about a dozen of the 'dozens' of times adams was dominated on defense; and only provided point totals, no dates of the games, etc. neither did you provide any evaluation of kanter's defense to make this a tenable method of comparison.

You can post a bunch of crap about team defensive ratings when Adams is one the floor but the numbers simply don't lie. Adams is NOT a very good defender and he certainly wasn't worth 100 million dollars. Kanter is a much more valuable player to the team and is an elite scorer (17th in the NBA in points scored per minute) and rebounder (arguably the best offensive rebounder in the league) yet he is the only one who seems to be criticized for poor defense.

i'm sorry, you have not provided enough data to satisfy these claims. but you did scratch the surface. please provide the dates of the games above, and please do go 'on and on' because that's the only way we're going to get anywhere. i have no interest in your rhetoric, i only have interest in the facts.

[sleestak33]

Embiid scored 20 against Adams in 22 minutes--Anthony-Towns had 33--Baynes (Detroit) outscored Adams 20-4--Capela had 13/14 to Adams' 6/6--Lopez 22 in 28 minutes--Cousins 36/14 to Adams' 11/4--Davis 37--Plumlee outscored him 16-8--Anthony Towns had 26/12 to Adams 10/8--Jokic (Denver) outscored him 23-10--Marc Gasol outscored him 23-5--Zeller outscored him 11-2--Lopez outscored him 25-11--DAvis outscored him 38-13--Gasol outscored him 31-16--Anthony-Towns had 29/17 to Adams' 4/5

this is a great start and i appreciate it. can you please provide dates of these games so that i may check out the boxscores and look a bit more closely at the data? not that i don't trust you. also, i think you need to examine your definition of 'dozens'.

I could go on and on but...

please do! facts are where these discussions should take place. not arm waving. listing out the games and providing / scrutinizing evidence is the way this must be done if we're going to get anywhere. quit wasting time with your rhetoric and provide more of the above if you want your statements to be taken seriously. i will happily change my mind if you can provide the evidence.

To act as if he is some sort of excellent defender and that Kanter is somehow just terrible is a complete and total joke as you can see.

uh, no. you provided about a dozen of the 'dozens' of times adams was dominated on defense; and only provided point totals, no dates of the games, etc. neither did you provide any evaluation of kanter's defense to make this a tenable method of comparison.

You can post a bunch of crap about team defensive ratings when Adams is one the floor but the numbers simply don't lie. Adams is NOT a very good defender and he certainly wasn't worth 100 million dollars. Kanter is a much more valuable player to the team and is an elite scorer (17th in the NBA in points scored per minute) and rebounder (arguably the best offensive rebounder in the league) yet he is the only one who seems to be criticized for poor defense.

i'm sorry, you have not provided enough data to satisfy these claims. but you did scratch the surface. please provide the dates of the games above, and please do go 'on and on' because that's the only way we're going to get anywhere. i have no interest in your rhetoric, i only have interest in the facts.

Go look yourself. You wanted stats and I just listed around 20 games where Adams got dominated by opposing centers and many of those he simply got destroyed. Not something your 100 million dollar center should be allowing to happen. You want to go back and look through 82 box scores feel free and you'll see I'm 100% right.

[slick_watts]

Go look yourself. You wanted stats and I just listed around 20 games where Adams got dominated by opposing centers and many of those he simply got destroyed.

no, you didn't list any games. you listed some players with some numbers. you did not list dates, you did not provide boxscores. you made a claim that adams was dominated in 'dozens of games'. providing a list of points scored by opponents, without a source, is not sufficient evidence.

let us put it this way: if i told you that adams held all those players to 5 points, 10 points, 2 points, etc. would you believe me? would you ask me to provide box score links so you could verify? of course you would. so man up and get serious if you want to be taken seriously.

you listed 15 point totals. not 'around 20'. the fact that i know this, and you don't know this, casts some serious doubt on your data.

[RunOKC]

Problem with Kanter is he can't guard Pick and roll and has T-Rex arms

[jambalaya]

Among the 8 teams still alive, Kanter is most similar to Jonas V. and Gortat. Neither is a difference maker.

[spearsy23]

Among the 8 teams still alive, Kanter is most similar to Jonas V. and Gortat. Neither is a difference maker.

No, among teams still alive enes is closest to Boris diaw. Guys who shouldn't even see the floor on good teams.

[hardenASG13]

Among the 8 teams still alive, Kanter is most similar to Jonas V. and Gortat. Neither is a difference maker.

No, among teams still alive enes is closest to Boris diaw. Guys who shouldn't even see the floor on good teams.

And Roberson is most similar to......nobody! But seriously, kanter is part of the core because his deal isn't movable most likely. Same with adams, same with oladipo. Sucks the idiot gms are getting fired, and Chicago can't possibly do another deal with okc, a landslide trade involving 1 or both of them is the only way to change that crap core around what will become a quickly aging Westbrook. His career could get ugly if he sticks around to play with this core.