Around the NBA: Playoff Edition #2

[Polynice4Pippen]

Curious if you watched the game because this take seems off. He carried the Wizards the whole game. He had 19 & 6 in the first quarter. He was the reason the Wizards established a 13 point lead after one. The bench (and Beal) blew this game for the Wizards.

Exact same thing happened in Game 1.

No I didn't, but going into the series I thought the Wizards chance was purely that Wall would dominate that matchup.

Are you saying that Wall wasn't the primary defender on IT?

Point is, it doesn't matter if Wall carried them offensively, if he let his matchup outperform him and carry Boston even more, which IT did.

This should not be a wash matchup at PG if Wall is truly the best PG in the East. Obviously right now IT has just as good a case.

Beal and Oubre were the primary defenders on IT.

[Rerisen]

That's true. But that can be said for a lot of guys. But I agree, Wall should be an elite on ball defender.

Yes. I'm reading that Harden article from a few pages back, and seeing a guy that took on the challenge of his coach to be a team player and be the PG to make everyone better. I think Harden also has improved on defense, and while still not great, at least tried to get better.

Wall, and Kyrie too, I see guys that are not that dedicated to maximizing their all around game. They still think the way to win is just out score or out offense their opponent.

That doesn't mean they still aren't great, but in the playoffs, you run into the other great players of the league, and it weeds out those that haven't addressed their weaknesses.

Whenever Boston loses, maybe not till Cleveland, it will be because some team made life hard for IT, its a snake head type offense, just like one led by Iverson, Rose, or Nash, everything they do flows from him. You cannot let that little dude just go crazy for 50+ on elite efficiency.

[Rerisen]

Beal and Oubre were the primary defenders on IT.

Even worse. Utterly embarrassing for John Wall then.

He's 26 years old in the prime of his career and can't even guard his own position, who is a midget half a foot shorter than him. He by far has the best quickness and speed to matchup.

I don't remember MJ switching off and being hid from top SGs in playoff series.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Beal and Oubre were the primary defenders on IT.

Utterly embarrassing for John Wall then.

Or Scott Brooks.

[Rerisen]

Beal and Oubre were the primary defenders on IT.

Utterly embarrassing for John Wall then.

Or Scott Brooks.

They better change because guarding him with SGs much slower than he is isn't gonna work.

Wall should go to his coach next game and say, "Give me this assignment."

I'm not picking on the guy but if going into the series someone told me IT would win the PG matchup, I would have laughed, and then said well then they are likely gonna lose the series.

[Polynice4Pippen]

That's true. But that can be said for a lot of guys. But I agree, Wall should be an elite on ball defender.

Yes. I'm reading that Harden article from a few pages back, and seeing a guy that took on the challenge of his coach to be a team player and be the PG to make everyone better. I think Harden also has improved on defense, and while still not great, at least tried to get better.

Wall, and Kyrie too, I see guys that are not that dedicated to maximizing their all around game. They still think the way to win is just out score or out offense their opponent.

That doesn't mean they still aren't great, but in the playoffs, you run into the other great players of the league, and it weeds out those that haven't addressed their weaknesses.

Whenever Boston loses, maybe not till Cleveland, it will be because some team made life hard for IT, its a snake head type offense, just like one led by Iverson, Rose, or Nash, everything they do flows from him. You cannot let that little dude just go crazy for 50+ on crazy efficiency.

Kyrie perhaps hasn't maximized his all-around game, but Wall has improved in most areas. In addition to his 40 and 13 tonight Wall also had 3 steals and 3 blocks. Harden may have gotten better defensively, but all he did was crawl out of the abyss. Wall is miles ahead of Harden on defense, especially off the ball.

[Rerisen]

Kyrie perhaps hasn't maximized his all-around game, but Wall has improved in most areas. In addition to his 40 and 13 tonight Wall also had 3 steals and 3 blocks. Harden may have gotten better defensively, but all he did was crawl out of the abyss. Wall is miles ahead of Harden on defense, especially off the ball.

That's true about Harden, but he isn't exactly a raw speciman athletically. His offensive brilliance has a lot to do with savvy, ball handling and immense skill levels. Which can't directly translate to defense.

But I think he may have discovered Isiah Thomas's (the Detroit version) 'Secret of Basketball'. Not that many stars have figured it out yet.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Utterly embarrassing for John Wall then.

Or Scott Brooks.

They better change because guarding him with SGs much slower than he is isn't gonna work.

Wall should go to his coach next game and say, "Give me this assignment."

I'm not picking on the guy but if going into the series someone told me IT would win the PG matchup, I would have laughed, and then said well then they are likely gonna lose the series.

I agree Wall should ask for the challenge of guarding IT, but Brooks needs to change his entire defensive coverage on screen and roll. They just lazily switch everything and allow Isaiah to go one on one with a big or don't aggressively trap him and get the ball out his hands like the Bulls were doing in Games 1 and 2.

And I wonder why the thought of a surefire top 5 MVP candidate outplaying Wall would be laughable to you?

[Polynice4Pippen]

Kyrie perhaps hasn't maximized his all-around game, but Wall has improved in most areas. In addition to his 40 and 13 tonight Wall also had 3 steals and 3 blocks. Harden may have gotten better defensively, but all he did was crawl out of the abyss. Wall is miles ahead of Harden on defense, especially off the ball.

That's true about Harden, but he isn't exactly a raw speciman athletically. His offensive brilliance has a lot to do with savvy, ball handling and immense skill levels. Which can't directly translate to defense.

But I think he may have discovered Isiah Thomas's (the Detroit version) 'Secret of Basketball'. Not that many stars have figured it out yet.

Agreed, Harden doesn't have the length or athleticism of Wall to be a dominant on ball defender. And yes, Harden has discovered the secrets offensively, similar to Chris Paul. Wall isn't as cerebral as those 2, but he's stepped beyond the chicken with his head cut off style of Westbrook and morphed into a true floor general.

[Rerisen]

And I wonder why the thought of a surefire top 5 MVP candidate outplaying Wall would be laughable to you?

Because of the history of small PG volume scorers in the NBA playoffs.

Because of Wall's massive physical advantages and being the 'best PG in the East'.

Usually guys like IT run into the little guy problem in the postseason once an actual good defense is able to gameplan for them. Or heck just a dominant defender like Butler (see LeBron on Rose) locks on to them. Sadly our games stopped being close enough for that to even matter after Game 2.

But the little guy syndrome already happened last year for IT, he had 17.4 PER and .519 TS% vs the Hawks as they hounded and trapped him all series.

Seems unlikely in one year he has learned how to become Steph Curry, actually even better numbers than Curry put up the last 2 postseason, as even Curry has seen noticeable production declines in the playoffs.

But we'll see if he can keep it up.

[SeniorWalker]

I hate to agree with Bill Simmons, but he made the point about CP3 in that whenever his team needs a 40 point night he just never provides it. You need to close out a series and step on someone's neck? CP3 is never gonna be that guy. He is always too smart for his own good and rather than just taking over he is always looking to pass.

Blessing and a curse.

He had 29 & 8 and took 20 shots in Game 6 to force a Game 7. He didn't have a good Game 7, but this is who he shared the court with and the minutes they played: Mbah a Moute (14), Rivers (37), Felton (23), Crawford (32), Pierce (21).

How are you meant to beat a deep team like the Jazz when those guys are playing key minutes?

I agree that CP3 generally plays very well but his point is that in the crucial moments, they needed him to be less " 'prototype' point guard" and more "dominant scorer". I've seen CP3 do it before and know he's capable but the criticism is that he relaxes that effort too often in these situations due to physical limitations. I rather agree somewhat actually having watched his entire career. Sometimes in half court offense when the defenses are tight and your passing options are effectively cut off, you need to apply offensive pressure (usually volume scoring) to force the double/triple teams and relieve pressure off of your teammates. The most dominant players can do that in virtually any critical situation, win or lose. CP3 seems not to step up in these situations often enough to warrant criticism, IF we're going to hold him to the top tier standard which has been his reputation for nearly a decade. Not "Never" but for me this is probably why as a #1 option sort of guy there are other players I'd take over him to be the lynchpin of the offense especially in more significant games. He is a player whose talent does not transcend his position. This is all said minding that he is like THE phenom point guard and a generally great offensive player.

[Rerisen]

Yeah I'm watching the start of the Wiz/Bos replay right now and Wall IS guarding Thomas.

Or should say trying to, guy just has a lazy demeanor on D.

[Polynice4Pippen]

And I wonder why the thought of a surefire top 5 MVP candidate outplaying Wall would be laughable to you?

Because of the history of small PG volume scorers in the NBA playoffs.

Because of Wall's massive physical advantages and being the 'best PG in the East'.

Usually guys like IT run into the little guy problem in the postseason once an actual good defense is able to gameplan for them. Or heck just a dominant defender like Butler (see LeBron on Rose) locks on to them. Sadly our games stopped being close enough for that to even matter after Game 2.

But the little guy syndrome already happened last year for IT, he had 17.4 PER and .519 TS% vs the Hawks as they hounded and trapped him all series.

Seems unlikely in one year he has learned how to become Steph Curry, actually even better numbers than Curry put up the last 2 postseason, as even Curry has seen noticeable production declines in the playoffs.

But we'll see if he can keep it up.

I agree I expected Wall to get the better of the matchup. I guess I was just thrown off by you indicating it would be laughable. Maybe I just read it wrong though. Tonight was just an epic duel between Isaiah and Wall.

[Rerisen]

I agree I expected Wall to get the better of the matchup. I guess I was just thrown off by you indicating it would be laughable. Maybe I just read it wrong though. Tonight was just an epic duel between Isaiah and Wall.

Maybe I was just spoiled by Rose clearly separating himself from other PGs 1v1 in his prime.

He took it personal, even on defense. (Too bad not vs lesser PGs).

I mean Derrick made CP3 look small and clearly inferior.

Here’s the best example from this season (that I’ve witnessed, anyway): When Chicago played the Clippers right after Christmas, Rose and Paul traded punches like heavyweights for three quarters. At least five or six times after Paul made a play, Rose demanded the inbounds pass and tore down the court to answer him. You could tell Rose had something to prove — that he was the reigning MVP, that he owned a starting spot in London, that maybe a month of “Where’s Chris Paul going?” hype shouldn’t have mattered as much as it did. He torched the Clippers down the stretch, put away the game, then left room for one last ankle-breaking crossover in garbage time (finished with a gorgeous alley-oop pass for a Gibson dunk) before getting pulled and defiantly stomping back to Chicago’s bench. If you were there, you knew this went deeper than basketball. Derrick Rose did everything short of standing on the scorer’s table and holding up his point guard world championship belt.

[Polynice4Pippen]

I agree I expected Wall to get the better of the matchup. I guess I was just thrown off by you indicating it would be laughable. Maybe I just read it wrong though. Tonight was just an epic duel between Isaiah and Wall.

Maybe I was just spoiled by Rose clearly separating himself from other PGs 1v1 in his prime.

He took it personal, even on defense. (Too bad not vs lesser PGs).

I mean Derrick made CP3 look small and clearly inferior.

Here’s the best example from this season (that I’ve witnessed, anyway): When Chicago played the Clippers right after Christmas, Rose and Paul traded punches like heavyweights for three quarters. At least five or six times after Paul made a play, Rose demanded the inbounds pass and tore down the court to answer him. You could tell Rose had something to prove — that he was the reigning MVP, that he owned a starting spot in London, that maybe a month of “Where’s Chris Paul going?” hype shouldn’t have mattered as much as it did. He torched the Clippers down the stretch, put away the game, then left room for one last ankle-breaking crossover in garbage time (finished with a gorgeous alley-oop pass for a Gibson dunk) before getting pulled and defiantly stomping back to Chicago’s bench. If you were there, you knew this went deeper than basketball. Derrick Rose did everything short of standing on the scorer’s table and holding up his point guard world championship belt.

Yeah, Derrick was just a different breed when it came to top PG matchups. He was actually a very good on ball defender when actually focused and locked in, there's no way he'd allow Isaiah to drop 53 on him in a playoff game. Wall was pretty dominant offensively though against an elite defender in Bradley. But he really needs to accept the challenge of guarding Isaiah. He did so in the final few possessions and actually got a big blocked shot on him, but he also allowed himself to be screened and have a big switched onto IT.

[Rerisen]

Wall was pretty dominant offensively though against an elite defender in Bradley.

That's the big problem, Boston has great perimeter defenders, they slowed down Jimmy and they are making Wall take a lot of shots to get his points (.537 TS%).

And that is likely to continue with Bradley/Smart, which is why Wizards really have to get a handle on IT, whether individually or team scheme, if they want to turn this around.

Also JW has to get a better look on a game winner than a leaning jumper.

[stilldropin20]

well if IT is going to tear up the east. that is a really good thing. makes canaan value sky rocket. to keep or trade.

not unlike tyrone lue skyrocketed after the 2000 finals and he played AI tough. bulls could catch a break.

[stilldropin20]

its interesting. we owned boston through 2 with rondo. there was no sign that they had any life. a sweep was a real possibilty. and now Boston is hitting DC hard. a team which i felt we matched up with the way we played in games 1 and 2 with rondo.

oh what could have been.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Wall was pretty dominant offensively though against an elite defender in Bradley.

That's the big problem, Boston has great perimeter defenders, they slowed down Jimmy and they are making Wall take a lot of shots to get his points (.537 TS%).

And that is likely to continue with Bradley/Smart, which is why Wizards really have to get a handle on IT, whether individually or team scheme, if they want to turn this around.

Also JW has to get a better look on a game winner than a leaning jumper.

Boston isn't really slowing Washington down though offensively, at least not as a whole. They've topped 110 two games in a row on Boston. The Wiz have just been lax defensively and on the boards. You're right though about them having to get a handle on IT.

[kingkirk]

I didn't say he was the better player, I said I can't see Washington winning the series if IT outplay Wall in it.

Do you?

Wall is a great player, but even great players have faults. And Wall should be a better defender by now.

Switching on defense is a choice, usually that teams with poor defending PGs will do because they don't trust their PGs to get around screens or stay with their man.

But you don't have to switch. Kirk Hinrich didn't switch. Wall has the physical attributes - or should - to stick with IT and not allow mismatch switch every time. You can't be letting that little guy post over .600 TS% in the series with volume scoring, or you are going to be done.

Wall has been a great defender before, but he's regressed. Even still, he's the best shot blocking guard in the league. He had several blocks today. But he's regressed, and that's because his offensive load is so great. I don't know how you can Washington play and not see how much work he is doing. And his backups are abysmal. Jennings and Burke are very bad. The Wizards get crushed in the minutes Wall isn't on the floor.

So yes, a guy like Kirk Hinrich can run through screens and fight through it all because he isn't doing nearly as much work offensively. It's like expecting Butler to do everything on offense for the Bulls and then still have him guard Thomas. It's not possible.

Washington can definitely win this series without Wall being the best player in the series. But that's up to his teammates just as much as it is him. He did his part today. His teammates didn't. I don't even see how that's debatable at this point.