2017 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson.

[Tetlak]

Oh look, another case of using stats but ignoring context.

Everybody keeps mentioning shot blocking and handchecking but...

Do you know that these Celtics are one of the highest volume 3 point shooting teams in the league?

Give Iverson that luxury, (NOT ONLY SPACING, BUT CAPABLE THREATS AROUND HIM) and guess what? Your argument goes out the window.

And I am really not even an Iverson fan.

[Edrees]

lets revisit this thread when Cavs sweep or beat boston in 5 games, and lets see what IT's numbers look like. This is the sheer definition of over-reaction thread.

[Shock Defeat]

Iverson put up 26 PPG as a 32 year old on great efficiency in 07/08. Prime Iverson in today's era would be the best scorer in the league imo.

[Infinite Llamas]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

[Hipster Doofus]

I understand the effiency case people will always make for IT.

But this is a totally different era of basketball defensively. Iverson no doubt would do anything he wants in this league. Look at how Damn near no one can stay in front of Kyrie Irving. Iverson wouldnt be able to be guarded in this league. By the time he gets to the rim, it's either a foul or he's scoring majority of the time.

It's just a tough comparison because we won't know the truth.

Amen.

AI averaged 33 points per game in 2006. Let that sink in for a second. Now image that number translated to the way the NBA is played today, where if a defender breaths on you it's a shooting foul. AI drove to the lane in reckless abandon.

The little guy would average at least 40 points a game today.

[CarMalone]

Iverson put up 26 PPG as a 32 year old on great efficiency in 07/08. Prime Iverson in today's era would be the best scorer in the league imo.

In 2008, Iverson's per36 ppg was 22.8ppg which would put him 32nd in the NBA this season. Again, Iverson's career per36 ppg is 23.3. Only one of Iverson's per36ppg seasons would even rank in the top 10 in the NBA this season. He was a good scorer, but he largely benefited from heavy usage.

[Doctor MJ]

He is better shooter and manipulator of the game. They need to stop giving him calls because he is small. Dude initiates contact and gets the call every time.

How much contact did Iverson initiate? Wasn't he known for that?

I don't remember him jumping into people and getting calls.

Things are more aggressive on this front than they used to be, but people have been using the same strategies for decades.

Hell, I remember using rip-through moves in elementary school in the '80s.

[OkcSinceSGA]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-isaiah-thomas-the-shortest-guy-in-the-nba-became-unstoppable/amp/

Great article today on IT by fivethirtyeight. Includes interesting data like how he leads the league in handoff plays received etc. Also same article says IT gets his shot blocked more than any player in the NBA. So much for an easy time in the paint compared to Iverson.

[Hipster Doofus]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

[OkcSinceSGA]

lets revisit this thread when Cavs sweep or beat boston in 5 games, and lets see what IT's numbers look like. This is the sheer definition of over-reaction thread.

Why? I made this thread based upon the regular season and "superstar" thread where almost all people said no.

[sikma42]

Iverson put up 26 PPG as a 32 year old on great efficiency in 07/08. Prime Iverson in today's era would be the best scorer in the league imo.

In 2008, Iverson's per36 ppg was 22.8ppg which would put him 32nd in the NBA this season. Again, Iverson's career per36 ppg is 23.3. Only one of Iverson's per36ppg seasons would even rank in the top 10 in the NBA this season. He was a good scorer, but he largely benefited from heavy usage.

Kobe Bryant in his MVP season did not have a top 10 PER in 2017. Are you willing to continue this silly argument?


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[Laure]

Iverson led his team to the Finals with a cast comparable to what Thomas has now. If Thomas makes the finals with this group, then yes, he has a case.
Until then, he still has one series win and a small sample size of high scoring.

[Forbes]

Another, we missed out on Iverson's real potential. He had 0 offensive talent around him on the Sixers. You're lying if you never felt bad for the dude lol. Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, Raja Bell lol wtf? This is what Iverson DRAGGGEDDDDD to the finals. That team had no business there. Granted they were probably good on defense but lord give Iverson a break.

I wish Iverson had 3 solid and consistent outside threats.

[Edrees]

lets revisit this thread when Cavs sweep or beat boston in 5 games, and lets see what IT's numbers look like. This is the sheer definition of over-reaction thread.

Why? I made this thread based upon the regular season and "superstar" thread where almost all people said no.

Seems to me it's a reaction to a 50 pt game.

I want to compare how they both do deep in the playoffs, that's how I decide what players are better

[OkcSinceSGA]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

His 01 run was pretty pathetic in terms of competition. Let's be real. Pacers were terrible, Raptors had weak supporting cast, even compared to Sixers and even that went to 7 games. Bucks also took them to 7. Then they got smoked 4-1 by a juggernaut team.

[Forbes]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

Agreed

The East back then was way stronger than it is now IMO. All these East playoff teams are a facade now. The only really contender is the Cavs. We all know if the Cavs somehow do not make the finals, the East team that makes it is getting dismantled.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Iverson led his team to the Finals with a cast comparable to what Thomas has now. If Thomas makes the finals with this group, then yes, he has a case.
Until then, he still has one series win and a small sample size of high scoring.

Yea. Because **** 40 win teams like Pacers+ worse than Sixers supporting cast Raptors+shorthanded Bucks team is super impressive.

[DimesandKnicks]

In my opinion, Isaiah should be MVP. His team is a first seed and he's more efficient than any other of those candidates other than Khawi (turnovers/ FG percentage)

But to argue he's better than A.I ***k no. Iverson is a better rebounder and defender and straight give me the ball and get out the way scorer. He would cook in this error of touch fouls. 2 plus steals and 3 plus rebounds verses .9 steals and under 3 boards. A 4 percentage point fg percentage doesn't make up for that. I'm surprised this thread has even made it this far..

Was A.I a widely innefficient volume scorer....yes. But his teams didn't even have another play who could dribble. Eric snow, Mckie, Lynch, Tryone Hill and Mutombo...or Horford, Johnson, Crowder and Bradley?

Iverson had great utility players...hill could rebound Mutombo could rebound and block shots, everyone else could defend...but getting 10 points from any of those guys was always a plus.

[HeartBreakKid]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

The early 2000 Raptors and Magic don't sound all that competitive, the current day Washington Wizards would whoop those teams.


Most of those players you listed were the only good player on their team, and outside of 2001 AI barely beat any of them. For all the talk about how bad Iverson's roster was, it was much better than most of the other teams in his conference.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

Agreed

The East back then was way stronger than it is now IMO. All these East playoff teams are a facade now. The only really contender is the Cavs. We all know if the Cavs somehow do not make the finals, the East team that makes it is getting dismantled.

Wat? Lol. The east was awful back then in early 00s lol. The Pistons were what the Cavs are now. Basically a lock to smash the east every year, although LeBron obviously ended that pretty quick.