2017 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson.

[Hipster Doofus]

That's nostalgia talking man. For example Giannis this year was better than all of those players in say 01. Better than Iverson, better than Tmac, better than VC, better than Ray Allen.

Did you just say Giannis this year was better than prime Iverson, TMAC, Vince Carter and Ray Allen?

LOL I'm officially done replying on this thread. Your username might be deceiving. I don't think you're a Clippers fan since 1998.

I think you were born in 1998.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Iverson led his team to the Finals with a cast comparable to what Thomas has now. If Thomas makes the finals with this group, then yes, he has a case.
Until then, he still has one series win and a small sample size of high scoring.

Yea. Because **** 40 win teams like Pacers+ worse than Sixers supporting cast Raptors+shorthanded Bucks team is super impressive.

Still way more than Thomas has achieved. Thomas won against an underwhelming Bulls team and who else? Wizards would be a good scalp, so let's go from there, if he help Celtics close out this team.

Until then, you're overreacting.

I'm comparing regular seasons in 2017 vs 2001 primarily. Not their all time standing or playoff success. I've said that now multiple times. Not my fault you and many others can't keep up with the topic and keep changing the argument into something else. I don't care that he beat the inferior Bulls or dropped 53 on Wizards. His body of work from 2017 in the regular season was superior.

[OkcSinceSGA]

That's nostalgia talking man. For example Giannis this year was better than all of those players in say 01. Better than Iverson, better than Tmac, better than VC, better than Ray Allen.

Did you just say Giannis this year was better than prime Iverson, TMAC, Vince Carter and Ray Allen?

LOL I'm officially done replying on this thread. Your username might be deceiving. I don't think you're a Clippers fan since 1998.

I think you were born in 1998.

So many emotions. Read again. I said in 01 specifically and yes, Giannis of this year was a more impactful all around player than those wings that season. People are too caught up in the hype of big names and historical standing. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying the east right now is better than in 01. Period. The Raptors, Wizards and Celtics were all better than anything in the east that year and that doesn't even include the Cavs.

[TheBullsDynasty]

NO, not even CLOSE.

IT in the 90's would be scared to even drive to the basket. Plus, he wouldn't get a foul call every time someone even glances through his way like he is getting right now.

[Sisqo]

Anyone who disagrees can fight me with actual data and evidence. I'm addressing this because I see people constantly pissing on IT while Iverson is on some nostalgic pedestal and it annoys me. Both were mediocre defenders who got steals in the passing lanes but not much else (although Iverson was better defensively). Isaiah's efficiency on offense more than makes up for PG defense.

"But defense!" People need to realize PG defense was never a huge thing. Sure, big PG's like Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Dennis Johnson who also guarded 2s and 3s. But most other hall of fame PG's didn't play a lick of defense. Stop being hypocritical.

"Anyone who disagrees can fight me with actual data and evidence" How about you provide some data or evidence to back up your claim before demanding someone else does if they disagree with you opinion?

[OkcSinceSGA]

Anyone who disagrees can fight me with actual data and evidence. I'm addressing this because I see people constantly pissing on IT while Iverson is on some nostalgic pedestal and it annoys me. Both were mediocre defenders who got steals in the passing lanes but not much else (although Iverson was better defensively). Isaiah's efficiency on offense more than makes up for PG defense.

"But defense!" People need to realize PG defense was never a huge thing. Sure, big PG's like Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Dennis Johnson who also guarded 2s and 3s. But most other hall of fame PG's didn't play a lick of defense. Stop being hypocritical.

"Anyone who disagrees can fight me with actual data and evidence" How about you provide some data or evidence to back up your claim before demanding someone else does if they disagree with you opinion?

I'm mobile. I've shared plenty of times, your turn to look it up. Look at the advanced stats of each player. Look at the PER 36 of each player to take away Iverson's 8 mpg inflating his raw stats.

[dakomish23]

I think Iverson would of been more efficient if he played in this era. He would of shot and made more 3's and played a different style IMO.

Hard to compare when you are playing in the league with a totally different style of play.

I'm not discounting IT. Dude has had a fantastic season. Somebody is going to back up the Brinks truck

[Xherdan 23]

Iverson making the finals shouldn't be held against Isaiah. Did AI ever have to get through someone like LeBron to reach the Finals??

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

His 01 run was pretty pathetic in terms of competition. Let's be real. Pacers were terrible, Raptors had weak supporting cast, even compared to Sixers and even that went to 7 games. Bucks also took them to 7. Then they got smoked 4-1 by a juggernaut team.

You mean "then they won a game against one of the best teams of all time that sweeped a stacked western conference"?

[Laure]

Yea. Because **** 40 win teams like Pacers+ worse than Sixers supporting cast Raptors+shorthanded Bucks team is super impressive.

Still way more than Thomas has achieved. Thomas won against an underwhelming Bulls team and who else? Wizards would be a good scalp, so let's go from there, if he help Celtics close out this team.

Until then, you're overreacting.

I'm comparing regular seasons in 2017 vs 2001 primarily. Not their all time standing or playoff success. I've said that now multiple times. Not my fault you and many others can't keep up with the topic and keep changing the argument into something else. I don't care that he beat the inferior Bulls or dropped 53 on Wizards. His body of work from 2017 in the regular season was superior.

So by your logic you'd determine that 2015-2016 Warriors are the best team of all time, because they had the best regular season of all time?

I don't understand what you're arguing, regular season performance or playoff performance? Because playoffs are still only in the 2nd round.

IT still has a lot to prove until you can compare him to 2001 Iverson. You're really underselling on what he managed to achieve that year.

[zronv7]

Agreed, he's a more fierce Iverson with a jump shot and super clutch 4th quarter ability with insane mental toughness.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Still way more than Thomas has achieved. Thomas won against an underwhelming Bulls team and who else? Wizards would be a good scalp, so let's go from there, if he help Celtics close out this team.

Until then, you're overreacting.

I'm comparing regular seasons in 2017 vs 2001 primarily. Not their all time standing or playoff success. I've said that now multiple times. Not my fault you and many others can't keep up with the topic and keep changing the argument into something else. I don't care that he beat the inferior Bulls or dropped 53 on Wizards. His body of work from 2017 in the regular season was superior.

So by your logic you'd determine that 2015-2016 Warriors are the best team of all time, because they had the best regular season of all time?

I don't understand what you're arguing, regular season performance or playoff performance? Because playoffs are still only in the 2nd round.

IT still has a lot to prove until you can compare him to 2001 Iverson. You're really underselling on what he managed to achieve that year.

Ever hear of a Strawman? Read my original post and stick with that criteria. You're all over the place with your argument. Obviously I'm starting this thread in game 2 of the semis, so the playoffs aren't the main premise if at all. The premise as I specified multiple times now was the general perception that Isaiah isn't a superstar, MVP candidate or even a top 10 player, but Iverson apparently was all of those things in 01 or his best seasons. Nobody waited until they got a game in the finals from the Lakers to proclaim him MVP which he got BTW based on the regular season.

[Driguez]

The disrespect

[Patches Perry]

One thing that doesn't get said enough in these era debates is that if you penalize Thomas offensively for not playing in a much more physical era, you can't also then penalize him defensively for not playing in a much more physical era. For those saying Iverson was a better defender, maybe it's because you were allowed to play defense back then, as you say? You can't have it both ways.

Personally I think the thread title is correct, but Iverson had a lot of pretty good years and his career still dwarfs Thomas. Thomas this season though has been as good or better than Iverson ever was.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Lebron was in his early career when AI was playing, so no.

But he did have to fight through, many times might I add, a prime Vince Carter, prime TMAC, prime Ray Allen and Sam Cassell in Milwaukee, a ridiculously good Pistons team of the early 2000s that won a championship with prime Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, prime Baron Davis (whom AI dropped 55 points on by the way on a playoff game), prime Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, etc.

That's a fighting man's resume. Not Isaiah Thomas possibly facing Lebron once in the next round lol.

His 01 run was pretty pathetic in terms of competition. Let's be real. Pacers were terrible, Raptors had weak supporting cast, even compared to Sixers and even that went to 7 games. Bucks also took them to 7. Then they got smoked 4-1 by a juggernaut team.

You mean "then they won a game against one of the best teams of all time that sweeped a stacked western conference"?

Fair enough. They earned it fair and square and Lakers did go to 15-1, still a record I'm pretty sure. It was an impressive finals showing considering the competition. I'm just saying what they had to go through in the east wasn't as impressive as these guys are saying. Beating the Lakers even once is far more impressive to me.

[Wolfy1983]

Wouldn't he have to lead his team to a title to be considered better?

[OkcSinceSGA]

One thing that doesn't get said enough in these era debates is that if you penalize Thomas offensively for not playing in a much more physical era, you can't also then penalize him defensively for not playing in a much more physical era. For those saying Iverson was a better defender, maybe it's because you were allowed to play defense back then, as you say? You can't have it both ways.

Personally I think the thread title is correct, but Iverson had a lot of pretty good years and his career still dwarfs Thomas. Thomas this season though has been as good or better than Iverson ever was.

Great, fair point. The arguments you're referring to are flooding this forum lately. People use these arguments when convenient, then shoot them down when not.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Wouldn't he have to lead his team to a title to be considered better?

Like Iverson did?

[Wolfy1983]

Wouldn't he have to lead his team to a title to be considered better?

Like Iverson did?

Iverson carried a garbage ass team to the finals bro. Leading a Boston team to the ECF is considered a higher feat for you?

[Kevin Johnson]

IT will never be greater than AI until he takes 4 Stiffs to a finals and gets a game.
CASE CLOSED.

Another, we missed out on Iverson's real potential. He had 0 offensive talent around him on the Sixers. You're lying if you never felt bad for the dude lol. Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, Raja Bell lol wtf? This is what Iverson DRAGGGEDDDDD to the finals.

Iverson carried a garbage ass team to the finals bro. Leading a Boston team to the ECF is considered a higher feat for you?

Iverson shot 34% FG for the Eastern Conference finals 7-game series. Mutumbo averaged 17ppg and 16 rpg for the series and Mckie averaged 17ppg, 7apg and 5prg for the series. And Mutumbo, Hill, Mckie and Snow were defensive beasts. A better argument could be made that they carried Iverson and his chucking.

Iverson had his games but generally was atrocious to watch. Even that series, he singlehandlly chucked away games and even despite that the Sixers sometimes won games just because of their defense.

Game 2: 5-26 @ 19% FG
Game 4: 10-32 @ 31% FG and Philly still won
Game 5: 10-27 @ 19% FG and Philly still won

The hate on Iverson is astonishing considering everything he has done for the game

What exactly did Iverson accomplish or do for the game? Are we talking about the same Iverson that chucked away at 40% for his career and got dragged into the finals chucking multiple games at 19% shooting? The same Iverson who made it to the 2nd Round a total of 4 times in his career? Iverson was a icon for a generation of kiddies who didn't know what good basketball was but wasn't a Jordan/Bird/Magic who brought in waves of non-casual basketball fans to game, grew the game or popularized the game internationally. On the contrary, ratings were dismal and most viewers were turned off his chucking, lack of respect for the game and lack of professionalism.

Growing up in the Bird/Magic/Jordan era, it was painful to watch a media narrative that pushed Iverson as the MVP and it's ridiculous that those who worshiped Iverson as kiddies preach to a younger generation how great he was.

[OkcSinceSGA]

IT will never be greater than AI until he takes 4 Stiffs to a finals and gets a game.
CASE CLOSED.

Another, we missed out on Iverson's real potential. He had 0 offensive talent around him on the Sixers. You're lying if you never felt bad for the dude lol. Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, Raja Bell lol wtf? This is what Iverson DRAGGGEDDDDD to the finals.

Iverson carried a garbage ass team to the finals bro. Leading a Boston team to the ECF is considered a higher feat for you?

Iverson 34% FG for the Eastern Conference finals 7-game series. Mutumbo averaged 17ppg and 16 rpg for the series and Mckie averaged 17ppg, 7apg and 5prg for the series. And Mutumbo, Hill, Mckie and Snow were defensive beasts. A better argument could be made that they carried Iverson and his chucking.

Iverson had his games but generally was atrocious to watch. Even that series, he singlehandlly chucked away games and even despite that the Sixers sometimes won games just because of their defense.

Game 2: 5-26 @ 19% FG
Game 4: 10-32 @ 31% FG and Philly still won
Game 5: 10-27 @ 19% FG and Philly still won

The hate on Iverson is astonishing considering everything he has done for the game

What exactly did Iverson accomplish or do for the game? Are we talking about the same Iverson that chucked away at 40% for his career and got dragged into the finals chucking multiple games at 19% shooting? The same Iverson who made it to the 2nd Round a total of 4 times in his career? Iverson was a icon for a generation of kiddies who didn't know what good basketball was but wasn't a Jordan/Bird/Magic who brought in waves of non-casual basketball fans to game, grew the game or popularized the game internationally. On the contrary, ratings were dismal and most viewers were turned off his chucking, lack of respect for the game and lack of professionalism.

Growing up in the Bird/Magic/Jordan era, it was painful to watch a media narrative that pushed Iverson as the MVP and it's ridiculous that those who worshiped Iverson as kiddies preach to a younger generation how great he was.

Boom. Nostalgia crushed.