For the next top 100 project, all people who live in reality, please convene here

[ardee]

We need to make sure the results reflect reality. Garnett simply cannot be voted into the top 12, Kobe has to be in the top 10, we cannot have Magic outside the top 5, players like Baylor, Oscar, and West need to be given respect.

I want to make this a strategy thread for us guys who know these things to make sure the project turns out the way it needs to and we can vote accordingly.

[Senior]

this'll end well.

[RCM88x]

Kobe is not a top 10 player all time, well... I guess his highest possible ranking is 10th but to say that he has to be top 10 is a bit weird.

[Warspite]

Kobe in the top 10 is a serious reach. I posted 10 yrs ago that by the time he reached the top 10 LBJ would knock him out.

[SactoKingsFan]

Kobe is not a top 10 player all time, well... I guess his highest possible ranking is 10th but to say that he has to be top 10 is a bit weird.

The entire point of this thread is absurd.

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[ThaRegul8r]

Kobe is not a top 10 player all time, well... I guess his highest possible ranking is 10th but to say that he has to be top 10 is a bit weird.

The entire point of this thread is absurd.

Well, he actually did sway voters enough in the last project to gain a desired result. So with that being so, it isn't absurd to get organized earlier in order to get more players voted into the desired spots.

[SideshowBob]

Does this list really matter that much?

The discussion and debate archive these projects create is where the value lies. This kind of maneuvering beforehand just seems childish and petty and misses the point IMO.

But to each his own I guess.

[ThaRegul8r]

Does this list really matter that much?

I took a look and saw that you didn't vote in the last one. I don't recall off-hand whether or not you followed it. I remember you posted in the Retro Player of the Year discussion that year.

The discussion and debate archive these projects create is where the value lies.

That's the official line, but there are people to whom the ranking matters very much. There was another poster who was trying to get the votes to align with his own subjective ranking. People want their guys to be ranked wherever it is they have them on their own list, and people refer to it for a board consensus. That's why I wasn't a voter in the project, and why I won't be a voter this year either.

[SideshowBob]

Does this list really matter that much?

The discussion and debate archive these projects create is where the value lies. This kind of maneuvering beforehand just seems childish and petty and misses the point IMO.

But to each his own I guess.

Going a bit further, you're also politicizing this. Creating this thread and taking this stance is now going to galvanize a faction in opposition to you. Which is going to play a part in taking away from discussion and reducing the project into a group vs. group thing instead of just having folks say their part and be (or not be) swayed and then vote. It's needlessly reductive. Things are going to be dictated based on things that you consider to be important/polarizing. Why should that be the case?

[SideshowBob]

Does this list really matter that much?

I took a look and saw that you didn't vote in the last one. I don't recall off-hand whether or not you followed it. I remember you posted in the Retro Player of the Year discussion that year.

Yup. Didn't vote in the last one or in the 2011 project. Unlikely that I will do so this year either. Don't feel comfortable that my analysis/research on player careers is deep enough that I can rank 100 players with certainty. Plus I've had commitment problems late in projects before so refraining is the best way to avoid that.

The discussion and debate archive these projects create is where the value lies.

That's the official line, but there are people to whom the ranking matters very much. There was another poster who was trying to get the votes to align with his own subjective ranking. People want their guys to be ranked wherever it is they have them on their own list, and people refer to it for a board consensus. That's why I wasn't a voter in the project, and why I won't be voting this year either.

Yeah I remember. It's unfortunate but I suppose the discussion still occurred so I consider that project a valuable resource regardless.

[GSP]

Cmon man its not serious, we all go on here in our spare time for the great discussion and company of the other posters here (at least in my case for the latter not sure about others). Organizing a strat for players to be ranked a certain way is just silly, weak and high school/diva behavior

[Quotatious]

Ardee's post epitomizes everything that is wrong with the way people approach player comparisons. I actually think people cling too stubbornly to the so-called "conventional wisdom" (which often isn't really that wise). If our goal would be creating a list that reflects "conventional wisdom" as closely as possible, then it's an extremely boring exercise, essentially futile because it doesn't allow us to make any progress in our understanding of the game.

I absolutely detest the notion that "player A can't be lower than a certain spot" or "player B cannot be ranked higher than player C" etc. This is exactly what we SHOULDN'T allow to happen.

I would disagree with everything ardee said, with regards to Garnett, Kobe and Magic - I don't really see a top 5 case for Magic (I would have him around 8th, personally), he just didn't have much impact on defense, I would take bigs like Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem over Magic, handily. Simply better two-way players.

Kobe's statistical output simply isn't top 10, IMO. More like top 13-15. Maybe 11-12 at best.

KG in top 12 is perfectly reasonable. He shouldn't be far from Duncan (the only thing that REALLY separates them is the fact that Duncan was lucky to play for one of the best organizations in the league's history, Garnett played almost his entire prime for one of the worst).

[Winsome Gerbil]

Having seen the annual KG/Dirk style silliness, and recently the noveau let's devalue Bird etc. stuff, I'll be happy this time if we can just keep Draymond out of the Top 15 for 1 more year.

[ardee]

Cmon man its not serious, we all go on here in our spare time for the great discussion and company of the other posters here (at least in my case for the latter not sure about others). Organizing a strat for players to be ranked a certain way is just silly, weak and high school/diva behavior

If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. Spare time is spare time, and if one is going to devote a good amount of time to reading and writing top 100 posts, we can't let people who rank Garnett in the top 5 ruin it for all of us.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

[GSP]

Cmon man its not serious, we all go on here in our spare time for the great discussion and company of the other posters here (at least in my case for the latter not sure about others). Organizing a strat for players to be ranked a certain way is just silly, weak and high school/diva behavior

If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. Spare time is spare time, and if one is going to devote a good amount of time to reading and writing top 100 posts, we can't let people who rank Garnett in the top 5 ruin it for all of us.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

Wouldnt time spent organizing a bunch of ppl to just not vote for Kg be better spent (and instructive for all of us) if those ppl actually formed or came up with counterarguments for Kg being placed top 5 or top 10? Its hardly set in stone that Kg is a top 5 or 10 player or that Magic is top 5 or whatever. Theres not one single God given criteria an Nba player must meet to be ranked accordingly and for the pro Kg arguments impactwise there are counters to be made (or not further explored from previous projects if u reread).

[penbeast0]

We need to make sure the results reflect reality. Garnett simply cannot be voted into the top 12, Kobe has to be in the top 10, we cannot have Magic outside the top 5, players like Baylor, Oscar, and West need to be given respect.

I want to make this a strategy thread for us guys who know these things to make sure the project turns out the way it needs to and we can vote accordingly.

Not sure this is reality. Garnett's supporters had excellent arguments backed up with advanced statistics, Kobe is certainly top 12 but can see Hakeem pushing him out of top 10. Fans of Wilt (of which this forum has less than most places) could easily have a top 5 with Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, and LeBron ahead of Magic. And, Baylor isn't on the level of West (or Oscar) either offensively or defensively; he was great but more in the Rick Barry/Alex English area than the West/Oscar area.

Oh, and any of us who love to argue about past NBA players isn't living in reality anyway.

[mischievous]

There will be Warrior fans and Curry stans pushing for him to be voted top 20-25 i can already see it. He'll get there eventually, but it's just too early. Garnett went 11th last time, i can see him going even higher depending on who's in the voter pool.

[laika]

Kobe in the top 10 is a serious reach. I posted 10 yrs ago that by the time he reached the top 10 LBJ would knock him out.

This board's low opinion of Kobe is a serious reach.

Kobe's top 10 case-
5 championships against a really tough playoff schedule.
One of only 2 players with 5 titles and averaging 25 ppg.
Shaq didn't do much without Kobe.
Kobe did not have much help besides Shaq.
Countless defensive awards despite everyone on realgm trying to pretend he's a bad defender.

Maybe Kobe isn't in the top 5, but he is definitely a top 10 all time player.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I think the main appeal of realgm is that people pretty much always come up with legitimate arguements other than "because thats what everyone else thinks"

this thread is basically trying to make realgm like an insidehoops forum or something. the discussion is more important because if a real fan wants to make a decision he should look at the evidence and decide for himself, not at the results and think "oh if thats what they think they are right"

also legit arguements are made here instead if just cliches, and things are usually backed up.

this is comint from somebody who has kobe at 9-10 and garnett outside of his top 12 btw so i agree with you, but for example garnett is criminally underrated outside of this forum, and kobe is honestly overrated outside of this forum (by that i mean those who have him as 1A 1B with jordan or something)

idk this thread hopefully wont effect the project.

[mysticOscar]

When u look at the whole body of work...or have consistant criteria for there rankings...its a further reach to exclude Kobe out of the top 10 rather than in it...certainly at this point imo. But i do want to hear what case people have to say otherwise...

I can see a case for Magic being out of top 5 (i personally dont)...especially if we include Russell and older players in the argument

With KG....i can see a case being just in the top 12 (tho i personally dont).

I dont think ppl with left field opinions should be excluded....reason and common sense most often than not prevails in a proper open forum where properly managed discussion takes place