Luka Doncic

[Bob8]

and efes is a euroleague constant top team, very much comparable with real madrid in each way.

lol just lol

i know right. well argumented by your side with an "lol"

well tell me, is real really that much better team then efes, so you can say that if a 19-20 year old plays good 20 minutes on real, he is soo much better, and advanced, compared if a same 19 year old kid does that at efes under ivkovic? really? that much of a difference?

because taking my sentance out of context (efes on same level as real) is very weak. as i was comparing real and efes in cases of doncic and saric, who were both similar aged (+-2 years) when they played big roles in their euroleague clubs.

let me know when you get past the LOL, and tell me your reasons, why sarics euroleague stats as an 19-20 year old, are so much less worthy then doncics 18 year old? where does real have that big edge in competition, games played, wins losses, coach, teammates? tell me please.

this is stats from Saric when he was 17/18 like Doncic this year. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003112&seasoncode=E2011

In Efes he was 3 years older than Doncic, and 3 years is a lot, when you're 18 years old.

[pacersGM]

keep hanging on those 2 extra years.

And hope that in 2 years time when he is 20, and likely still in madrid, that he averages alot more then this years stats. If he goes at 13, 8, 7, his mozart prodigal status will slowly fade, then you will kinda have to accept those becirovic, saric, fotsis, rubio 20 year old comparisions.

[BoardCrusher]

and efes is a euroleague constant top team, very much comparable with real madrid in each way.

lol just lol

i know right. well argumented by your side with an "lol"

well tell me, is real really that much better team then efes, so you can say that if a 19-20 year old plays good 20 minutes on real, he is soo much better, and advanced, compared if a same 19 year old kid does that at efes under ivkovic? really? that much of a difference?

because taking my sentance out of context (efes on same level as real) is very weak. as i was comparing real and efes in cases of doncic and saric, who were both similar aged (+-2 years) when they played big roles in their euroleague clubs.

let me know when you get past the LOL, and tell me your reasons, why sarics euroleague stats as an 19-20 year old, are so much less worthy then doncics 18 year old? where does real have that big edge in competition, games played, wins losses, coach, teammates? tell me please.

with the statements you make like "IVE watched bball for 25years, IVE seen dragic score 20 in quarter, IVE seen him get MIP...." YOU think youre the only one THAT HAS SEEN STUFF? Let me burst your bubble again, YOU ARE NOT!

And you seem to take responses to you as personal insults, but dont see most of your posts are condescending af, others can play this way as well you know
you are obviously here to proove youre right and everyone else is in the wrong, discussion with you is futile, im done responding to you.

[pacersGM]

Seems to me your the one who is taking it to a personal level each time.

And in no way shape or forn did i say i was the only one watching dragic and knowing about bball. With that i wanted to say im not 20 year old with a doncic poster on my wall, but i have seen some things and see a bigger picture then these 5 years doncic has been arround.

I i still dont see your argument where madeid has such a huge addvantage over efes and such in a young players developement, since you loled that, you must have a strong case on that?

[Bob8]

:) keep hanging on those 2 extra years.

And hope that in 2 years time when he is 20, and likely still in madrid, that he averages alot more then this years stats. If he goes at 13, 8, 7, his mozart prodigal status will slowly fade, then you will kinda have to accept those becirovic, saric, fotsis, rubio 20 year old comparisions.

It's 3 years, if we want to compare him with Saric in Efes. And even if he goes 13, 8, 7. It's still light years better than 4.6, 1.8, 1.6, with 32% 3-pts and 65% FT, what all time best slovenian player did in Murcia, when he was 21 years old.

[Wildlinger]

@pacersGM
Well, you are wrong about Dragic and his athleticism. I know because I played against him at least 10 times before he went to the NBA. If you call him an above average athlete (in NBA terms), you really dont know what you are talking about. He was always crafty and agile but he was never, ever explosive or particularly fast. I am a few years older than him and I followed his progress since the first time I saw him play when he was 16 when playing for Ilirija. I remember that preseason game, he was weak, not athletic but he had something in his game that made me tell my teammate that this guy will be very good even though he didnt have a good game. Doncic is a very similar athlete to what Dragic was at 18, Goran was just more crafty but thats because he is about 4 inches shorter and has a much smaller frame.

Anyway, saying how athletic Dragic is just tells me how bad you are at evaluating players. Maybe you played against him at some point and you were unathletic, thats why he seemed like a world class athlete to you))

When Steve Kerr traded for Dragic who was actually drafted by the Spurs, he said Dragic is the 3rd most athletic guard in the draft behind Westbrook and Rose. In 2009 Gentry who was coaching the Suns said Dragic is the most athletic player on the Suns. And that was with prime Amar'e on his team. You can read the scouting reports on Dragic before he was drafted and the main thing mentioned in them is his speed with the ball and general athleticism. To say Dragic isn't athletic or fast is absolutely ludicrous. Doncic is an extremely talented young player, but some Doncic fan boys are really going way to far trying to make him look better than he actually is.

[Rasho Brezec]

Bringing up stats from European club competitions is kinda pointless because of the soulsucking way the game is played here. There is no room for individuality and creativeness.

[Mirotic12]

Bringing up stats from European club competitions is kinda pointless because of the soulsucking way the game is played here. There is no room for individuality and creativeness.

Teodosic
Bodiroga
Manu
Jasikevicius
Navarro
Papaloukas

Tons and tons of individualism and creativity when they played in EuroLeague.

Or if you mean "being a ball hog"...........

Keith Langford
Bobby Brown
Andrew Goudelock

and so forth. Yeah, there is less individualism allowed, but to say it isn't allowed it absolutely untrue.

[Mirotic12]

When Steve Kerr traded for Dragic who was actually drafted by the Spurs, he said Dragic is the 2nd most athletic point guard in the draft behind Westbrook. In 2009 Gentry who was coaching the Suns said Dragic is the most athletic player on the Suns. And that was with prime Amar'e on his team. You can read the scouting reports on Dragic before he was drafted and the main thing mentioned in them is his speed with the ball and general athleticism. To say Dragic isn't athletic or fast is absolutely ludicrous. Doncic is an extremely talented young player, but some Doncic fan boys are really going way to far trying to make him look better than he actually is.

Dragic is indeed a very good athlete. Here is where the issue is though, people that only follow NBA, or that have this belief NBA is a billion times better than any other basketball and that all the other basketball leagues have no athletes and are "full of stiffs", can take "2nd most athletic point guard in the draft behind Westbrook" and "most athletic player on the Suns", and think in their own mind then that........

"For sure Dragic is way more athletic than any player in Europe"...... But it doesn't work that way. It's true Dragic is a very good athlete. But on sheer athleticism, just strictly only accounting for athleticism - there are all kinds of point guards just in Europe that would leave him in the dust athletically.

So there is a big disconnect in how so many NBA fans view this whole athleticism issue with NBA players. It's always that somehow athletic in the NBA means most athletic in the world, and it simply isn't true, and actually, in a lot of cases the absolute most supreme athletes in the sport of basketball have noting to do with the NBA.

You have guys that are actually super athletes, not the "super athletes" NBA claims to have in its marketing, but real bona fide true super athletes, that maybe are not good enough for NBA. So they play in other leagues. Just like with EuroLeague, in a lot of cases the best athletes in European basketball are not playing necessarily in EuroLeague.........maybe they are not good enough really for EuroLeague, so they play lower leagues. But athletically, they are off the charts.

Same with NCAA. Some of the absolute most incredible athletes in basketball in NCAA never sniff the NBA. They were not considered to be good enough as players, but athletically they are off the charts. They might end up playing in any number of leagues around the world.

People with the NBA POV, seem to generally think any NBA basketball player from Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, Africa, whatever must be the only thing those areas have in terms of talent, and seem to generally always equate them to being "superior athletes" as compared to anyone else playing in those places. Funny thing is, if you watch some NBL (Australia) or something game, you see how all the best athletes Australia has in basketball actually don't play in the NBA.

He is exaggerating to say Dragic isn't that good of an athlete, but from NBA fans perspective, almost everyone over exaggerates the athleticism of all NBA players, as compared to any basketball elsewhere in the world. Just look at this thread.....you have guys saying no players in Europe have the athleticism of average NCAA college players........when there are freak athletes (European, American, whatever) in Europe. Guys that would be considered easily freak athletes in NBA under any measurement.

So I think the point he was trying to make is, NBA fans constantly do this - they exaggerate the athleticism of NBA players, and so to them Dragic must have been this amazing athlete in Europe, even though he wasn't. I watch EuroLeague, EuroCup, and BCL (1,2,3 level European leagues), and generally, I see no difference in athleticism levels, and even often see some of the really best athletes in the lower leagues. But the difference is the higher the league, the better the players are overall. Nothing to do with athleticism though for the most part, because again, actually often the best athletes are in lower leagues, since they are great athletes, but not such good players maybe.

The NBA fan POV seems to be in general, "the lower the league, the less athletic the players are". Which just isn't true. So yes, Dragic is a very good athlete, but yet his athleticism truly isn't anything special at all in Europe, even though NBA fan perspective would falsely think so.

[JPF]

I'm not even debating whether Dragic was a good prospect at age 18. i am simply saying Doncic is a better prospect at age 18. Seriously....you think I said that because Greece lost once to Slovenia, in Slovenia (with a natural bit of ref help)? How many times did Slovenia lose to Greece in a row? It was so many times I lost count. How many medals did Greece take away from Slovenia and how many excrutiating losses did Slovebia take to Greece?

Greece pretty much owned Slovenia for years upon years. Why would you even bring up something like that? Let's keep the discussion serious please. Notice I said, 2nd most overrated after Antetokounmpo (who is Greek). So I said the most overrated European player of the current time is Antetokounmpo, a Greek, and you took it as somehow I just wanted to bash Dragic because he once beat Greece at home?

Yeah, again, let's please try to keep this discussion serious.

As far as Dragic at age 18, and if a guy is in a smaller town and smaller club, yes, they can be overlooked. A lot of it is circumstance. If a player is lucky to be in Real Madrid early and can produce early, like Doncic, or Zisis had the same case in AEK, then yes, they can be seen as better maybe than any other prospect just be their luck circumstance.

Doncic is somehow similar in situation for Antonis Fotsis......if you would ask many people that followed EuroLeague over the years, i guarantee you many will say Fotsis was the greatest ever young player the league saw and not Doncic. Some people forget what Fotsis was doing at age 19.....people were having orgasms over it, imagining what that 19 year old could be at say 25.

Part of it was he was really damn good for his age, part of it was he got to show what he could do in a huge EuroLeague club.

On the other hand......let's compare that to Spanoulis, who was another Greek prospect just one year apart from Fotsis. No one in Europe (outside of Spanoulis' local area) was saying a thing about Spanoulis in that time when people were going crazy over Fotsis, as far as I remember, and yeah, guys like Zisis and Bourousis, and even Kaimakoglou and Tapoutos, were being seen as the bigger Greek prospects.

But there were people following Spanoulis locally, in his small town, and his small town club at the time - coaches, long time fans, former players, talent scouts, that were saying this unknown kid was going to be the miracle of European club basketball. Giannakis took some criticism, because he named Spanoulis as the greatest talent Greece ever produced or would produce, when Spanoulis was like 17 or something, and the press had never really heard of him. He was doing things at his age groups that no one had ever seen before or since (averaging 30-40 points a game at age 15, while playing against 21 year olds). But he was in this small club and town, and so no one really heard about it. '

In the end we saw Fotsis become one of the best power forwards in Europe, but Spanoulis became a guy that terrorized EuroLeague for over 10 years.

So believe me, I understand what you are saying (somehow like Fotsis to Doncic = Spanoulis to Dragic), and it has nothing to do with some random EuroBasket game years ago.

Well, the way Dragič was dragging Slovenia, which is by now a mere shadow of it's former self, through the last years - you really believe he wouldn't be up there in Barca/Fener/Real/CSKA, posting some sick numbers if he stayed in europe? I know you wish euroleague would be better than it actually is - I also shared that feeling for a long time, hoping for european basketball to develop further, but your "wish" doesn't change the reality. And that reality is that NBA perimeter play is individualy on so much higher level it's worrying europe can ever catch up. You can see that with the bulk of PG+SG's in europe consisting from 2nd grade americans with euro's becoming an endagered species on those position. Basicaly there isn't 1 single european NT where they wouldn't take a player like Dragič on their starting PG in a heart beat. Even if he is a better suited to NBA, that's not to the extent of Tony Parker. Sure Spanoulis or Teodošič are different kind of players, but the way Goran can altogether facilitate offense - none of those two can. Heurtel? De Colo? Rodriguez? Schroeder? Please. Be it NBA or euro, full or mid court. Like it or not. Teo might be doing that from range and with his vision, VSpan in his old way, but none of that is as disruptive for opponents as Goran's penetrations. If he had just a remotely simmilar talent down low as Slovenia had a while ago with Smodiš, Rasho, Brezec, E.Lorbek, Nachbar... whole story would be a lot different. With Omić, Vidmar, Balažič and Murič bros, no wonder he'll never get any achievement with his NT.


As I said, people might be bothered with the hype Dončič is getting, but it's easy to differentiate this hype compared to Darko, Skita, Bargnani... guys like Korolev etc. Dončič has a damn good reason he is receiving hype like this. And it's not cooling down anytime soon.
I was concerned about his transition to euroleague and considered it might be too soon, but since he accomplished a transition to Real's first team better than just about anyone expected, I'm not all that worried about the transition to NBA than. The gap from Real junior to senior team is way bigger than from Real to NBA it makesthe transition Luka has done plain sick! I've invested so much studying into euro's and the draft that I don't tend to miss all that often.

[Wildlinger]

Teodosic is a much better player than Goran Dragic, regardless of where either of them plays.

Well, when they both played in 2014 FIBA world cup Dragic put up better numbers than Teodosic. Dragic avaraged 16/2.9/4.3 in 26 minutes and Teodosic avaraged 13.6/2.1/4.4 in 27 minutes of playing time. They both shot 55.4% from the field. To say that Teodosic is a “much better player than Goran Dragic, regardless of where either of them plays” is not just factually wrong but also just as silly as some Doncic fan boy proclamations on this board. Dragic is one of 3 european guards in the history of NBA who became All NBA players. The other two are Tony Parker and Drazen Petrovic. Teodosic doesn’t come close to any of them. I also seriously doubt that Doncic will become the 4th European All NBA guard. I think it’s possible that he becomes an All NBA forward but that depends on his further physical development.

[XTraderXL]

Of course he was an above average in Europe, but not in the NBA and thats what I was talking about. For NBA he was never above average for a PG. That Westbrook clip doesnt tell you anything since Westbrook ran back slowly and then when he tried to stop. I am not saying he was a bad athlete like you are making it seem, he was above average in Europe but in the NBA he was never above average athletically. And no, he didnt improve by 50%, if he did he would be the fastest player in the league. WTF?!!?!

I am sure that Doncic with 30min per game will average 15, 5 and 5 in his 3rd year if he will play point forward. Before this season I said I expect him to play 20-25min in EL and average about the numbers he averages now and Mirotic said there is no way he will get those kind of minutes in the EL, nobody in Europe doesnt get those minutes at this age at a team like Real. Well, look at what happened. His impact on Real is even bigger than I expected and in my opinion Reals chances on F4 depend on his performance. If he doesnt play well, Real has almost no chance of winning even against Fener. That tells you how important an 18 yo is to his team.
And look at what happened in the PO. He had 2 bad games and then he came back, was the best player on the team and Real went to F4. That just tells you how mature and smart he is that he was able to adjust his game and be the best player on the court in only a few days.
And yes, Doncic is similar athletically to Dragic when he was 18. He just looks slower because he is so much bigger and has a completely different style. He is a better leaper as well. Dragic was more explosive than Doncic is at this point. In the open court, Doncic is maybe a bit slower but not much (he has 100kg, Dragic had maybe 80kg at that time) but he is unstoppable due to his size. With the ball in the open court he looks like the fastest player on the floor most times.

In fact I did play against Milic but not a lot and I was not matched up with him. Also, he is a few years older so our paths didnt cross as much as he went abroad early.

@Rasho

Did you see him play against Olimpija in the finals when he played for Slovan? I was at every finals game in 2006 and Dragic was the best player of the finals. He played great but Slovan lost in 5 (best of 5) and it wasnt his athleticism that made the dfference. To say he had nothing to his game but speed tells me you havent watched him play before he came to the NBA. He had speed for Europe, not for NBA. But he had talent, he was crafty, agile, smart and very tough. In NBA he developed other skills as well so he became a borderline all-star. As I mentioned I saw him play the first time when he was 16 and I saw his potential immediately but it was not because he was such a good athlete but because all of the things I mentioned above.

Yeah, I said he was no way getting 25 minutes a game, and I was right. Because he isn't.

In Spanish ACB league he is averaging 20.0 minutes:

http://www.acb.com/jugador.php?id=460

In EuroLeague, he is averaging 19.9 minutes:

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=E2016



Why are you calling me out for being correct on that? I was right.........he isn't playing over 20 minutes, just as I said he would not.

He is playing way over 20 min in tight games and I think thats more important than playing 15 min in a game thats decided by 30 points. And his minutes are going up as the season is progressing. Besides I said I expect he will be getting 20-25 min and you said he will be nowhere near that. You didnt say he will play 20 min, you said nowhere near 20. Go back and check the posts, it was during the preseason I think..

[XTraderXL]

Groan Dragic is a good athlete, most definitely. He's a good athlete, whether EuroLeague, top FIBA tournaments, NBA, whatever. But you seriously think someone can't name 3 white point guards as athletic as him?

There are probably dozens just right now. NCAA, Europe, Australia, Latin America...........there are kinds of point guards that are way more athletic than Goran Dragic, some of them would be more athletic than him by leaps and bounds.

I was following Basketball Champions League (3rd level European league) this year, and I don't think Doncic would even be a top 10 point guard athletically in that league. He's certainly a good athlete, but you are way exaggerating on to what level though.

i was talking about / name 3 white athletic point guards similr to goran dragic. i ment nba level players.
im shure there is a white guy jumping out of the gym somewhere in D2 or D1 ncaa school. but thats all he can do probably.

im talking about an nba player / similar athletic / similar good / as goran dragic. name them, please? so we can see, how average of an athlete goran really is?

Why are you talking only about white PGs? Are there only white players in the NBA? I said he is above average for EL but not for the NBA. There is 80% black PGs in the NBA and half of them are better athletes than Goran. So whats your problem?

[XTraderXL]

if we are in an nba draft forum, talking about nba potential and nba level of play, you are seriously stating that teodosic is a better player then goran dragic? vry funny, and very euroleague patriotic and funny also

and efes is a euroleague constant top team, very much comparable with real madrid in each way.

I watch NBA and EuroLeague both all the time. I know and understand that this magical level of difference that supposedly exists between the two leagues is mythical and isn't even actually real or true.

Yes, Teodosic is a much better player than Dragic, in any league they are playing in. That being said, I do think Teodosic is quite overrated in USA and in USA sports media, and by these NBA talent people. He's a great player, but he's also a bit of a headcase, and an enormous all time level choke artist.

Still...he's clearly a much better player than Goran Dragic is. I don't make this mistake, and believe in this absolutely untrue and false myth that says NBA is so extremely vastly superior to EuroLeague, and then thus by total mistake and error, think players like Dragic are somehow 10 times better than they really are, and some random player in EuroLeague is 10 times worse than he really is.

And I don't trust the basketball knowledge of people that say they watch both NBA and EuroLeague, and then make these same claims about how NBA os so vastly superior - because they can't possibly be watching the same games I am.

Teodosic is a much better player than Goran Dragic, regardless of where either of them plays.

Efes is nothing comparable to Real Madrid. Real Madrid is one of the elite European basketball clubs, while Efes is an average EuroLeague team, that might be the historically all time biggest choker of any team ever in the league.

These players Efes typically has, just like they have right now for example....Derrick Brown, Tyler Honeycutt, Brandon Paul, Deshaun Thomas - these types of players are not what a big EuroLeague could would want. They are players for the Efes, Milano, Maccabi, Brose, Galatasaray types of teams. Or the teams like Khimki and such. Most certainly not for the real top level teams like Real, CSKA, Olympiacos and teams like that.

Efes is as average as you can get for a EuroLeague club. Nothing in any way in the same level as a major power like Real Madrid.

i never said the euroleage and nba are world apart as far as quality. the gap is getting smaller each year.
but since the big money, and the best players play the nba level, way (speed, excitement, 1 on 1), the measuring stick is the nba,
in this case, goran dragic is more suited for the highest level of basketball, meaning the nba, then a teodosic. it will be nice to see that difference next year.

me personaly like the nba way more, as the euro style is to slow, not enough 1 on 1, to much team defense (center can wait in the paint parked for a driver, slasher to arrive). it means people cant display 1 on 1 skill as they are always crowded (such defensed hide bad defenders - teodosic and such ).

On this I actually agree. I believe Dragic is much more suited for NBA than Teodosic. Teo knows why he is is 30 and never went to the NBA))) I mean he would be ok but nowhere near the player he is in Europe. On the other hand, Dragic plays best in the NBA and was never as good in FIBA basketball (EL or NT).

[pacersGM]

Why are you talking only about white PGs? Are there only white players in the NBA? I said he is above average for EL but not for the NBA. There is 80% black PGs in the NBA and half of them are better athletes than Goran. So whats your problem?

whats my problem?
it is my sincere concern for doncic, since your claiming dragic is just so-so athletic speaking of the nba level,how doncic will fair of with his way less then average athletic ability speaking of the nba level (lateral quickness, explosivenes) wich is without a doubt questionable, at the nba level (trust the scouts, talent evaluators, since i am a nowbody)

[SportsGuy8]

15-5-5

I honestly think Doncic could average that RIGHT NOW in the NBA with 30+ minutes.

For me, he's only going to end up as a 15-5-5 player if he doesn't improve at all, something that's highly unlikely, even for being such an early bloomer. I don't like the comparison to another early bloomer Rubio, because Rubio's style of play never needed or benefited much from attributes that come with age (strength, toughness ...). That's different with Doncic since he's going to be a much more physical type of a player, so he's basically going to benefit/progress slightly every single year for the next decade or so. He's already looking for contact, even bullying weaker opponents ... and while we're only seeing glimpses of that right now, it's going to get more and more prominent as he ages/matures.

With that said, I don't think he's ever going to put up ridiculous scoring averages, though, no matter how much he still improves, diminishing his value in the eyes of many, sadly. He can surely end up being the best passer at this position, even the best rebounder (he has a special knack for rebounds), but not a scorer.

[pacersGM]

I honestly think Doncic could average that RIGHT NOW in the NBA with 30+ minutes.

For me, he's only going to end up as a 15-5-5 player if he doesn't improve at all, something that's highly unlikely, even for being such an early bloomer. I don't like the comparison to another early bloomer Rubio, because Rubio's style of play never needed or benefited much from attributes that come with age (strength, toughness ...). That's different with Doncic since he's going to be a much more physical type of a player, so he's basically going to benefit/progress slightly every single year for the next decade or so. He's already looking for contact, even bullying weaker opponents ... and while we're only seeing glimpses of that right now, it's going to get more and more prominent as he ages/matures.

With that said, I don't think he's ever going to put up ridiculous scoring averages, though, no matter how much he still improves, diminishing his value in the eyes of many, sadly. He can surely end up being the best passer at this position, even the best rebounder (he has a special knack for rebounds), but not a scorer.

you make alot of sense, but its still a fantasy for me for doncic to get those 15-5-5 so easy in the first years.
dont get me wrong, i hope he does. but still, those are gordon hayward numbers in his 4th year (and this years - 5 points per game).
and hayward was a lottery pick, brought a butler team to 2 straight national championship ncaa games. was scouted as good athlete, ok shooter, ok rebounder, ok speed, ok vision and passing.

and hayward is a max player and all star for shure on a playoff team right now. will it really be so easy for doncic to get those numbers so soon?

im really a fan of doncic, since this is a kid who basicaly gave up his childhood to follow and work for a dream. and i hope he succeedes, but the media and people are hyping him up too much to a point where a 15-5-5 nba season, seems as an insult to people?!

i mean really, come on

[SportsGuy8]

On this I actually agree. I believe Dragic is much more suited for NBA than Teodosic. Teo knows why he is is 30 and never went to the NBA))) I mean he would be ok but nowhere near the player he is in Europe. On the other hand, Dragic plays best in the NBA and was never as good in FIBA basketball (EL or NT).

I completely agree about Dragic, but I only partially agree about Teodosic. Sure, on defense he's going to seriously struggle, but imagining him offensively in the NBA makes me drool. Faster pace, a bit bigger court, a bit more athletic teammates ...

It's a shame we never saw Bodiroga in the NBA, in a large part because everyone (including himself) thought that he's not suited for it, hopefully we're at least going to see Teo ...

[SportsGuy8]

I honestly think Doncic could average that RIGHT NOW in the NBA with 30+ minutes.

For me, he's only going to end up as a 15-5-5 player if he doesn't improve at all, something that's highly unlikely, even for being such an early bloomer. I don't like the comparison to another early bloomer Rubio, because Rubio's style of play never needed or benefited much from attributes that come with age (strength, toughness ...). That's different with Doncic since he's going to be a much more physical type of a player, so he's basically going to benefit/progress slightly every single year for the next decade or so. He's already looking for contact, even bullying weaker opponents ... and while we're only seeing glimpses of that right now, it's going to get more and more prominent as he ages/matures.

With that said, I don't think he's ever going to put up ridiculous scoring averages, though, no matter how much he still improves, diminishing his value in the eyes of many, sadly. He can surely end up being the best passer at this position, even the best rebounder (he has a special knack for rebounds), but not a scorer.

you make alot of sense, but its still a fantasy for me for doncic to get those 15-5-5 so easy in the first years.
dont get me wrong, i hope he does. but still, those are gordon hayward numbers in his 4th year (and this years - 5 points per game).
and hayward was a lottery pick, brought a butler team to 2 straight national championship ncaa games. was scouted as good athlete, ok shooter, ok rebounder, ok speed, ok vision and passing.

and hayward is a max player and all star for shure on a playoff team right now. will it really be so easy for doncic to get those numbers so soon?

im really a fan of doncic, since this is a kid who basicaly gave up his childhood to follow and work for a dream. and i hope he succeedes, but the media and people are hyping him up too much to a point where a 15-5-5 nba season, seems as an insult to people?!

i mean really, come on

Normally I would agree, but Doncic has ELITE vision, passing and rebounding (for his position/height), making him a level above Hayward as a prospect. Keep in mind that I mean it as a PROSPECT. Hayward is putting up such ridiculously high standards right now that Doncic would pretty much have to reach his ceiling to surpass it.

As for the numbers, Doncic is clearly an early bloomer, while Hayward is a late one ... Even if there's a possibility that Doncic is currently at 18 on a similar level as Hayward was when he was 23, it doesn't mean Doncic is ever going to be better than Hayward is right now at 27.

P.s.: Something interesting to think about: what if we're all wrong and Doncic isn't actually an "early bloomer" and we're being highly unfair to him by labeling him as one? That's a scary thought because it would basically mean HOF+ potential. Yeah, everything points towards him actually being an early bloomer and being very close to his physical potential, but what if he's not? We're going to have to wait a few more years to get an absolute answer to that.

[BoardCrusher]

some trolls here explaining hes an average shooter?

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