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Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire?

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Who was the better 20 year old?

Amare
20
56%
Booker
16
44%
 
Total votes: 36

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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#21 » by DirtyDez » Mon May 8, 2017 6:53 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Playing in a program like UK under Calipari with a lot of great players and going through premier college coaching and playing in a NCAA tournament atmosphere does a lot more than anything you learn by getting a year older while in hs. But he also got 1 year of coaching at the professional level along with 2,108 minutes before his 20 year old season. Those two years are a much better experience than whatever experince he got in the multiple high schools he attended. I'm betting Booker had a lot better coaching/training in high school as well and was in a solid program.


People talk about Booker not starting at Kentucky but every day he practiced against 4-5 other pros and the #1 defense in the country. Also Booker was a class ahead of where he should've been given his age. He turned 18 his freshman year whereas you're supposed be 18 during your Sr year of HS at some point. His rookie season should've been his freshman year. That speaks to his maturity level.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#22 » by RaisingArizona » Mon May 8, 2017 7:12 pm

I'd take a healthy Amare over Booker just because he was such a physical and athletic beast. Too bad his body fell apart so soon. Booker should have a much longer prime due to him not relying on his athleticism as much.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#23 » by DirtyDez » Mon May 8, 2017 7:23 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:I'd take a healthy Amare over Booker just because he was such a physical and athletic beast. Too bad his body fell apart so soon. Booker should have a much longer prime due to him not relying on his athleticism as much.


There's like 50 what-ifs in Suns history but Amare's knees might be the biggest. In Jack McCallum's book he said Amare didn't take his rehab seriously during that year off and tried a half assed comeback attempt mid season that backfired. Even though he was first team in 07' that was mainly for the center position stipulation. So not only te surgery what-if but also not being 100% committed during recovery and maybe things are different in the following years.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#24 » by bwgood77 » Mon May 8, 2017 7:26 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:I'd take a healthy Amare over Booker just because he was such a physical and athletic beast. Too bad his body fell apart so soon. Booker should have a much longer prime due to him not relying on his athleticism as much.


There's like 50 what-ifs in Suns history but Amare's knees might be the biggest. In Jack McCallum's book he said Amare didn't take his rehab seriously during that year off and tried a half assed comeback attempt mid season that backfired. Even though he was first team in 07' that was mainly for the center position stipulation. So not only te surgery what-if but also not being 100% committed during recovery and maybe things are different in the following years.


As crazy good as he was at 22, I can't imagine if his knees were completely healthy in 2006-7 and beyond, how long we could have kept it up. I mean we probably could have been contenders every year until at least 2012.

Another great moment from his 20 year old rookie year was a playoff game winner against the #1 and eventual champion Spurs.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#25 » by itlnsunsfan » Mon May 8, 2017 10:23 pm

Such a shame that STAT's knees broke down so early. He would've been a guaranteed hall of famer. I've never seen anyone so physically dominant short of Shaq. Even Lebron isn't as physically ferocious.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#26 » by ATTL » Mon May 8, 2017 10:28 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:I'd take a healthy Amare over Booker just because he was such a physical and athletic beast. Too bad his body fell apart so soon. Booker should have a much longer prime due to him not relying on his athleticism as much.


There's like 50 what-ifs in Suns history but Amare's knees might be the biggest. In Jack McCallum's book he said Amare didn't take his rehab seriously during that year off and tried a half assed comeback attempt mid season that backfired. Even though he was first team in 07' that was mainly for the center position stipulation. So not only te surgery what-if but also not being 100% committed during recovery and maybe things are different in the following years.


As crazy good as he was at 22, I can't imagine if his knees were completely healthy in 2006-7 and beyond, how long we could have kept it up. I mean we probably could have been contenders every year until at least 2012.

Another great moment from his 20 year old rookie year was a playoff game winner against the #1 and eventual champion Spurs.


Amares 3 sent it to ot. Marbury made the last second 3 after Tim missed a free throw while the crowd chanted MVP.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#27 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue May 9, 2017 1:09 pm

It's interesting also to do this analysis with other players on the roster. You realize that:

Marion > Warren, easily. But then, how does DJJ compare? Well, when Marion was 19, it was 1997, and Shawn Marion was in Junior College, entering UNLV... where DJJ played season before last. Now, I don't think DJJ will ever be the type of rebounder Shawn was, and they are differently spectacular as athletes. More importantly, players develop a different rates, in different ways. Science isn't a crystal ball. But this is why I'd rather not draft JJ. Because what about DJJ? The worst mistakes losing teams make is undervaluing their own investments. Case in point, the Kings with IT.

Lopez/Len? Len the better rebounder, Lopez the more physical defender. Robin JUST NOW became a respectable mid-range shooter. Will Len become a respectable finisher around that age (and if so, wouldn't that be pretty useful to have around?)? How does Len compare, statistically, to Tsakalidis?

Nash/Ulis? Nash was still six inches taller, as he would continue to be throughout his career. But then, there are rookie year stats, and there are defensive player of the year awards to consider. The worst mistakes losing teams make is undervaluing their own investments. Case in point, the Kings with IT... This is why I'm worried about drafting another point guard.

I think it's hard to find Suns-comparables for Bender and Chriss.
Cabarkapa or Len for Bender? Looking at other teams... Kukoc? Porzingis?
Amare, Marion or Warren for Chriss? Finley for Chriss? Mario Bennett? What were we talking about again?

As for the OP's question, I vote Amare over Booker because the FG% and the rarity of Amare's physical gifts made it a known fact that Amare could be a lynchpin of a championship-quality offense. Amare was in the rare air of Malone and Kemp in that respect... too overpowering and coordinated to be stopped going to the basket on the move. A true POWER forward.

Booker's ceiling looks to be higher, at this early stage, because of his mentality and because of the diversity of skills he seems capable of acquiring. Booker scored 70 points in a game. That alone could arguably give him this award. In fact, it probably should, and were I unbiased, perhaps I would have voted for Devin.

But I love power. I miss it. I hate it when the other team has it and we can't do anything to stop it. That's why of all the teams I've ever hated, Shaq's Lakers stand atop that wretched pile. Overwhelming. Unstoppable. Physical power. And me with nothing but L** L******* to defend my team with.

TL; DR: **** the Lakers.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#28 » by ATTL » Tue May 9, 2017 3:22 pm



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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#29 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 9, 2017 3:32 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:It's interesting also to do this analysis with other players on the roster. You realize that:

Marion > Warren, easily. But then, how does DJJ compare? Well, when Marion was 19, it was 1997, and Shawn Marion was in Junior College, entering UNLV... where DJJ played season before last. Now, I don't think DJJ will ever be the type of rebounder Shawn was, and they are differently spectacular as athletes. More importantly, players develop a different rates, in different ways. Science isn't a crystal ball. But this is why I'd rather not draft JJ. Because what about DJJ? The worst mistakes losing teams make is undervaluing their own investments. Case in point, the Kings with IT.

Lopez/Len? Len the better rebounder, Lopez the more physical defender. Robin JUST NOW became a respectable mid-range shooter. Will Len become a respectable finisher around that age (and if so, wouldn't that be pretty useful to have around?)? How does Len compare, statistically, to Tsakalidis?

Nash/Ulis? Nash was still six inches taller, as he would continue to be throughout his career. But then, there are rookie year stats, and there are defensive player of the year awards to consider. The worst mistakes losing teams make is undervaluing their own investments. Case in point, the Kings with IT... This is why I'm worried about drafting another point guard.

I think it's hard to find Suns-comparables for Bender and Chriss.
Cabarkapa or Len for Bender? Looking at other teams... Kukoc? Porzingis?
Amare, Marion or Warren for Chriss? Finley for Chriss? Mario Bennett? What were we talking about again?

As for the OP's question, I vote Amare over Booker because the FG% and the rarity of Amare's physical gifts made it a known fact that Amare could be a lynchpin of a championship-quality offense. Amare was in the rare air of Malone and Kemp in that respect... too overpowering and coordinated to be stopped going to the basket on the move. A true POWER forward.

Booker's ceiling looks to be higher, at this early stage, because of his mentality and because of the diversity of skills he seems capable of acquiring. Booker scored 70 points in a game. That alone could arguably give him this award. In fact, it probably should, and were I unbiased, perhaps I would have voted for Devin.

But I love power. I miss it. I hate it when the other team has it and we can't do anything to stop it. That's why of all the teams I've ever hated, Shaq's Lakers stand atop that wretched pile. Overwhelming. Unstoppable. Physical power. And me with nothing but L** L******* to defend my team with.

TL; DR: **** the Lakers.


I don't think anyone outside of the Suns fanbase would view Booker's ceiling to be higher than what Amare's was. Amare was listed like top 2 or 3 in the entire league in Bill Simmon's trade value thing. I know he's just a random guy that doesn't do a ton of analysis but he was thought of VERY highly back then.

DJJ to Marion. DJJ will not have much of a role if he can't shoot because you can't hide him on offense or spread the floor. He's like a taller version of Goodwin who looks to be a better defender (though extremely small sample size) and of course a better dunker. He might be more of a Warrick.

Bender - Kirilenko maybe

Chriss - Kind of a cross between Ibaka and Amare with more atleticicm and Warrick's size

If you are just using former Suns DJJ to Warrick and Chriss would be a cross between Amare and Warrick but since he has a 3 ball maybe throw a little Marion in there. I don't think there is a good former Suns comp for Bender.

Booker might be a cross between like Finley (but he was a rookie at 22 so was better than Booker at 20 with a worse 3 ball) and maybe a guy like Eddie Johnson once he became a good 3 pt shooter in his late 20s or Jim Jackson once he became a good shooter from deep.

Booker (20) vs Finley (22) http://bkref.com/tiny/M8F1l

EJ http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsed03.html

Jim Jackson http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksji01.html
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#30 » by Frank Lee » Tue May 9, 2017 9:03 pm

Making some valid points there cosmo....Kind of getting off topic but.... I think this team goes forward with approximately the same roster as guys like Chriss, Ulis, DJJ, Williams have shown enough actual court time talent to remain here. You need good young inexpensive contribution. We likely wont let prospect Bender go either as again, good, young CHEAP talent.

The salaries this year are going to be obscene. Fortunately for the Suns, outside of a decision on Williams and Len, there really isn't going to be a major chunky deal that vaults an average player into one of the highest paid one on the team. I think we shy away from Free Agency simply because of the ramped up CBA, and fully expect our payroll to be in the bottom tier once again. Perhaps the most important decision was the tank/play the youth one. The benefit, IMO, is not the better draft pick.... but the realization of the talent on the bench.
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#31 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 10, 2017 4:40 am

It's interesting...I ran the same poll on the PC board, which is mostly long term fans, to see if it came out differently and if anyone recency bias or new fans here gave different results. The poll winner is the same, but the margin of victory differs quite a bit.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1560970
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Re: Who was the better 20 year old, Booker or Stoudemire? 

Post#32 » by Biff » Thu May 11, 2017 7:04 pm

Amare was very raw at 20, so I think Booker is a little better given he has a bit more experience. However, had Amare never had injury trouble who knows what he would have done. His potential was absolutely insane. Unfortunately his work ethic wasn't quite up to his talent either. Had he also had Kobe's drive, dude would have been one of the best PF ever. Could you imagine Amare with his pre-microfracture explosion and post-microfracture midrange jumper? He very easily would have scored 30 a game and with a high TS%. And he had all the tools to be a good defender, he just didn't work at it. Just too many what ifs with Amare. Still one of the best big men of his era though.

Booker, though less physically gifted, seems a little more humble and maybe that'll translate to him working harder throughout his career. Hopefully he avoids the injury bug and we get to watch this kid turn into the best SG in the league.
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