Trade Ideas thread

Krapinsky · Post #421 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue May 9, 2017 2:27 pm

I would take Carroll. $15M/year seems like a lot, but he's a good fit and only requires a 2-year commitment.

He can start at SF, allow Wiggins to slide over to SG and Lavine to come off the bench.

shrink · Post #422 » by **shrink** » Tue May 9, 2017 2:46 pm

I think you guys may be under-estimating the value of cap space this summer.

Last year a deal like Carroll's might have been okay where we are eating $30 mil of salary if they upped the deal to include the #23. (then again, it was a rough draft).

This year, cap space is much more valuable. There will be less than half as much available around the league. In addition, this year we have slightly better free agents that want to get paid, PLUS we have all those bad contracts from last year floating around.

The original deal - Carroll without the pick - is a bad one. Carroll plus #23 is borderline, but I think there will be many better opportunities out there, and we shouldn't jump the gun and accept this one.

vanhill · Post #423 » by **vanhill** » Tue May 9, 2017 4:12 pm

shrink wrote:I think you guys may be under-estimating the value of cap space this summer.

Last year a deal like Carroll's might have been okay where we are eating $30 mil of salary if they upped the deal to include the #23. (then again, it was a rough draft).

This year, cap space is much more valuable. There will be less than half as much available around the league. In addition, this year we have slightly better free agents that want to get paid, PLUS we have all those bad contracts from last year floating around.

The original deal - Carroll without the pick - is a bad one. Carroll plus #23 is borderline, but I think there will be many better opportunities out there, and we shouldn't jump the gun and accept this one.

Raps fans here
Which players you would give away for Carroll?

Krapinsky · Post #424 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue May 9, 2017 4:36 pm

shrink wrote:I think you guys may be under-estimating the value of cap space this summer.

Last year a deal like Carroll's might have been okay where we are eating $30 mil of salary if they upped the deal to include the #23. (then again, it was a rough draft).

This year, cap space is much more valuable. There will be less than half as much available around the league. In addition, this year we have slightly better free agents that want to get paid, PLUS we have all those bad contracts from last year floating around.

The original deal - Carroll without the pick - is a bad one. Carroll plus #23 is borderline, but I think there will be many better opportunities out there, and we shouldn't jump the gun and accept this one.

I guess I'm just not all that optimistic about the free agent market. It takes a player wanting to come play here for market level money and history suggests that doesn't happen unless the player is a local boy like Aldrich. We have a lot of issues. An outdated stadium. Poor fan attendance. A 13-season playoff drought. I think Thibs might scare away a few free agents and I think Taylor has a poor reputation among NBA players thanks to KG.

And although there is not as much capspace, there doesn't appear to be a lot of desirable free agents either. The UFA list is pretty bare and consist of a lot of guys that are either past their prime or play point gaurd: Tucker, Patterson, Ibaka, Gibson, J. Johnson, D. Rose, G. Hill, J. Teague, Holiday. There are a few more RFA's that are intriguing (Mirotic, Noel, Porter, Ingles, J. Green, Snell, KCP, Bogdanovic), but recent history suggests those players are typically going to be matched even when you blatantly overpay.

Post #425 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Tue May 9, 2017 5:01 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:Would there be any interest in a Demarre Carroll for Pekvoic's corpse type deal? Carroll seems to fill a definite need in Minny and has not been used right at all by Casey in Raptorland.

Hi Yuri! I like Carroll fit in MIN. Would you do something like this: Aldrich for Carroll + #23 pick?

Last year in Aldrich contract is partially guaranteed.
[/quote]
I probably don't make that trade. As a raptors fan I want to see what changes will be made first - for example is Casey and his ISO ball crap a gonna?

minimus wrote:P.S. Could you please describe Ibaka and Tucker in Toronto? Here we have some polarizing opinions about their performance and possible contracts.

Ibaka had some good stretches and also some horrid ones - particularly shooting. He was throwing up wide open brick and after wide open brick and didn't play inside the paint nearly as much as he needed - liked settling for long 2's and shots like that. Tucker was tough to gauge because he hardly every got minutes. He provides a defensive toughness few teams in the league can. He was more or less excluded from the offense - probably all part of Casey's offensive "system" :banghead:

minimus · Post #426 » by **minimus** » Tue May 9, 2017 5:13 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:He was more or less excluded from the offense - probably all part of Casey's offensive "system"

Do you think that Casey offensive system makes role players look worse? For instance, Tucker, Carroll, T.Ross looked bad

Krapinsky · Post #427 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue May 9, 2017 5:31 pm

minimus wrote:
Yuri Vaultin wrote:He was more or less excluded from the offense - probably all part of Casey's offensive "system"

Do you think that Casey offensive system makes role players look worse? For instance, Tucker, Carroll, T.Ross looked bad

It might be his system or having to play with Derozan and Lowry, or a little of both. The traditional box score numbers aren't their because they are incredibly low usage.

LoveMyRaps · Post #428 » by **LoveMyRaps** » Tue May 9, 2017 7:44 pm

Raps fan here. Just wondering would you guys ever trade Wiggins for Demar. Maybe something like Demar + draft pick (or prospect) for Wiggins + Pek

Biggsohnasty · Post #429 » by **Biggsohnasty** » Tue May 9, 2017 8:36 pm

No chance. DeRozan has proven at this point to be what he is. He's not hitting another level - Wiggins might not either. But he also might and he's controllable for the next 6 years or whatever.

I don't think Wiggins is going anywhere for a long, long time.

I'd take Carroll if Toronto is giving him away. He's a 35-40% 3-point shooter and even if he hasn't been great in Toronto, he's better than what we've had and if they attach a pick to it, you get a dart to throw at the dart board that is the draft.

Also, Carroll just played 76 games this past year. Don't know where the "he's always hurt" came from. He missed most of last year, but prior to that and this past year he was healthy. I think he's the type of "bad contract and buy low" type player the Wolves should be sniffing around.

Biggsohnasty · Post #430 » by **Biggsohnasty** » Tue May 9, 2017 8:41 pm

My bad Carroll played in 72 games last year. Either way, I don't think he's as injury prone as people say. He might not have the same explosivness as he did a few years ago when he was a stud in Atlanta, but if you can get him for free plus a draft pick - hypothetical of course - I think you have to consider doing it.

Mattya · Post #431 » by **Mattya** » Tue May 9, 2017 9:19 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:Raps fan here. Just wondering would you guys ever trade Wiggins for Demar. Maybe something like Demar + draft pick (or prospect) for Wiggins + Pek

No chance.

Note30 · Post #432 » by **Note30** » Tue May 9, 2017 9:35 pm

If we get the #3 pick and since we're talking about moving Wiggs so much here's my crack at it. Pulled some ideas from a few trades on the T&T board:

Wolves trade: Wiggins, Tyus, 2 future 2nds
Wolves receive: MKG, Gordon

Orlando trades: #5, Gordon
Orland gets: Wiggins

CHA trades: MKG, #11
CHA gets: #5, Tyus, 2 few future 2nds

Rubio/ Dunn
LaVine / (Sign Tony Allen or Thabo Sefolosha)
MKG/ #3 (Josh Jackson)
Gordon/Bjelica
Towns/Dieng/Aldrich

Thats about as balanced a roster as I can see us having with a MKG Jackson rotation swap in the middle of the season we've got a great balance. Granted shooting might still be a weakness but atleast defensively our worries are much better taken care of.

shrink · Post #433 » by **shrink** » Tue May 9, 2017 9:56 pm

Demarre Carroll really regressed last year. TOR signed him as a 3-and-D player, and he ended up providing neither. His 3 point shooting dropped from .395 to .341, and he shot FG 40% and FT. His production was down in every category last year, and people wonder if last year's injuries have permanently affected his game. He is definitely not worth that contract.

ace625214 · Post #434 » by **ace625214** » Tue May 9, 2017 10:00 pm

Generally if a GM is trading a blue chip player, he won't accept a trade without a blue chip coming back. Four quarters are equal to a dollar, but there are fewer dollar bills available.

I'm not a fan of the complete lack of shooting in that starting lineup. MKG and Gordon have career 3pt% of a 20.6 and 28.8, respectively. Towns is above average for his position, but he's just average in terms of the league. LaVine alone isn't enough to make up the difference.

shrink · Post #435 » by **shrink** » Tue May 9, 2017 10:05 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
shrink wrote:I think you guys may be under-estimating the value of cap space this summer.

Last year a deal like Carroll's might have been okay where we are eating $30 mil of salary if they upped the deal to include the #23. (then again, it was a rough draft).

This year, cap space is much more valuable. There will be less than half as much available around the league. In addition, this year we have slightly better free agents that want to get paid, PLUS we have all those bad contracts from last year floating around.

The original deal - Carroll without the pick - is a bad one. Carroll plus #23 is borderline, but I think there will be many better opportunities out there, and we shouldn't jump the gun and accept this one.

I guess I'm just not all that optimistic about the free agent market. It takes a player wanting to come play here for market level money and history suggests that doesn't happen unless the player is a local boy like Aldrich. We have a lot of issues. An outdated stadium. Poor fan attendance. A 13-season playoff drought. I think Thibs might scare away a few free agents and I think Taylor has a poor reputation among NBA players thanks to KG.

And although there is not as much capspace, there doesn't appear to be a lot of desirable free agents either. The UFA list is pretty bare and consist of a lot of guys that are either past their prime or play point gaurd: Tucker, Patterson, Ibaka, Gibson, J. Johnson, D. Rose, G. Hill, J. Teague, Holiday. There are a few more RFA's that are intriguing (Mirotic, Noel, Porter, Ingles, J. Green, Snell, KCP, Bogdanovic), but recent history suggests those players are typically going to be matched even when you blatantly overpay.

I guess I just don't agree with that assessment.

To be fair, we don't know if good free agents don't want to come here. Except for last year, when Thibs wisely did not spend, we have not had max cap space since Garnett was here, so when people point to our history of drawing elite free agents, we've only been up to bat one time. And that time, it was not that the players Thibs talked to refused to come here (Deng, Noah, C. Lee and Pau), but that they got offered better contracts (4 guaranteed years) or a better situation (Pau).

Moreover, 13 years of playoff drought does not affect a very bright future here in Minnesota with the players that are here right now. Fans, and free agents, can see that Towns is the real deal, and Wiggins and LaVine could be as well. Free agents are signing contracts for their next four years, not their past 13. Very few teams look to win more games over the next four years, as finances and age will reduce most other rosters. Finally, if the free agent's goal is to win a ring, you need superstars to beat superstars. MIN gives a free agent a shot at a ring that only a couple other teams can offer.

Krapinsky · Post #436 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed May 10, 2017 1:07 am

shrink wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:
shrink wrote:I think you guys may be under-estimating the value of cap space this summer.

Last year a deal like Carroll's might have been okay where we are eating $30 mil of salary if they upped the deal to include the #23. (then again, it was a rough draft).

This year, cap space is much more valuable. There will be less than half as much available around the league. In addition, this year we have slightly better free agents that want to get paid, PLUS we have all those bad contracts from last year floating around.

The original deal - Carroll without the pick - is a bad one. Carroll plus #23 is borderline, but I think there will be many better opportunities out there, and we shouldn't jump the gun and accept this one.

I guess I'm just not all that optimistic about the free agent market. It takes a player wanting to come play here for market level money and history suggests that doesn't happen unless the player is a local boy like Aldrich. We have a lot of issues. An outdated stadium. Poor fan attendance. A 13-season playoff drought. I think Thibs might scare away a few free agents and I think Taylor has a poor reputation among NBA players thanks to KG.

And although there is not as much capspace, there doesn't appear to be a lot of desirable free agents either. The UFA list is pretty bare and consist of a lot of guys that are either past their prime or play point gaurd: Tucker, Patterson, Ibaka, Gibson, J. Johnson, D. Rose, G. Hill, J. Teague, Holiday. There are a few more RFA's that are intriguing (Mirotic, Noel, Porter, Ingles, J. Green, Snell, KCP, Bogdanovic), but recent history suggests those players are typically going to be matched even when you blatantly overpay.

I guess I just don't agree with that assessment.

To be fair, we don't know if good free agents don't want to come here. Except for last year, when Thibs wisely did not spend, we have not had max cap space since Garnett was here, so when people point to our history of drawing elite free agents, we've only been up to bat one time. And that time, it was not that the players Thibs talked to refused to come here (Deng, Noah, C. Lee and Pau), but that they got offered better contracts (4 guaranteed years) or a better situation (Pau).

Moreover, 13 years of playoff drought does not affect a very bright future here in Minnesota with the players that are here right now. Fans, and free agents, can see that Towns is the real deal, and Wiggins and LaVine could be as well. Free agents are signing contracts for their next four years, not their past 13. Very few teams look to win more games over the next four years, as finances and age will reduce most other rosters. Finally, if the free agent's goal is to win a ring, you need superstars to beat superstars. MIN gives a free agent a shot at a ring that only a couple other teams can offer.

I would have to commit a few hours on the internet way back machine to come up with some examples, but my recollection is the Wolves were always on the outside looking when it came to the better MLE and other exception signings that were available. We also have a history of our own star players wanting out and I just think generally word gets around.

I also don't think free agents (just about all of whom are 27 or older) are all that motivated to come to a situation where our superstars are 21-22 years old and 3-4 years away from being serious contenders.

But let's hope I'm wrong and you're right.

PharmD · Post #437 » by **PharmD** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:38 am

LoveMyRaps wrote:Raps fan here. Just wondering would you guys ever trade Wiggins for Demar. Maybe something like Demar + draft pick (or prospect) for Wiggins + Pek

lol no

Not even close to close to close.

PharmD · Post #438 » by **PharmD** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:51 am

Biggsohnasty wrote:No chance. DeRozan has proven at this point to be what he is. He's not hitting another level - Wiggins might not either. But he also might and he's controllable for the next 6 years or whatever.

I don't think Wiggins is going anywhere for a long, long time.

I'd take Carroll if Toronto is giving him away. He's a 35-40% 3-point shooter and even if he hasn't been great in Toronto, he's better than what we've had and if they attach a pick to it, you get a dart to throw at the dart board that is the draft.

Also, Carroll just played 76 games this past year. Don't know where the "he's always hurt" came from. He missed most of last year, but prior to that and this past year he was healthy. I think he's the type of "bad contract and buy low" type player the Wolves should be sniffing around.

Carroll sucks and is owed $30.2M. When draft picks in the 20s are straight up sold it's usually for $1.5M or less. #23 is not nearly enough to take him.

minimus · Post #439 » by **minimus** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:10 am

Krapinsky wrote:I also don't think free agents (just about all of whom are 27 or older) are all that motivated to come to a situation where our superstars are 21-22 years old and 3-4 years away from being serious contenders.

But let's hope I'm wrong and you're right.

I have same feelings. Unfortunately we have done nothing to become more attractive destination for FA since last off-season. Last off-season resulted in Rush, Hill, Aldrich. Hill didn't play at all, Rush was in and out rotation, same with Aldrich. I don't see Rubio or KAT or Dieng or Wiggins calling out FA, advocating them to sign here. Like "hey! its great atmosphere in locker room here, great winning culture, chemistry! You can always enjoy great weather!"

Money itself cant buy us FA's love.

PharmD · Post #440 » by **PharmD** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:16 am

There are definite challenges for signing free agents. The fact that we're literally the least successful franchise in sports, the poor attendance the last dozen years, the weather for a winter sport, the super high taxes, etc. But i don't think that means you just give up and say "**** it, let's just clog our cap with bad players like Demarre Carroll."