2017 Hawks Offseason Thread

[Jamaaliver]

If they trade Baze/Howard does that come off their books ASAP? Or is there still cap holds?

It'll come off the books ASAP, but I'm sure the team we're trading with would try to send a salary filler back our way, especially if they're not way under the cap.

Yeah, unless we get a team to take Dwight for just draft picks, we'd likely have to take some salary back. Likely other bad contracts.

If someone can show me a scenario where we put a better team on the floor next season, I'll push for you as GM. Given the cap situation, the players with contracts next season and the cap and you see the problem.

Yeah, we're past the point of a quick(ish) fix. No real trade assets. Limited cap space for the forseeable future. No competitive team to entice free agents. Things will get worse before they get better.

Let's be glad Ressler sees it. Let's hope Millsap sees it and bolts this franchise so we can have the rebuild we absolutely need.

[Jamaaliver]

The best suggestion I can think is adding Omri Casspi and Bulls PF Nik Mirotic to improve 3-pt shooting.

Add Darren Collison for PG depth and locker room stability.

And just coast to whatever fate we've built for ourselves.

We just have to avoid bad contracts and be patient. That's the hard, painful way to improvement.

Bold Prediction: Budenholzer likely bolts sooner than later, too.


What a sorry state we've allowed ourselves to fall into. Bad asset management.

[PandaKidd]

If we moved Baze/Millsap for shorter "bad" contracts thats a plus in my book. remember Ferry had to do that with JJ and Marvin. He had to take on Deshaun Stevenson and a few others. Look at this roster LOL

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2013.html

Either way we get REALLY bad or stay the same.

[PandaKidd]

Bold Prediction: Budenholzer likely bolts sooner than later, too.

I was thinking about this too............ if youre Bud, you just watched the guy who hired you resign/fired (ferry) and you were given power like Popovich. Now youve had it taken away, you won COY 2 years ago and now are stuck with a roster that wont get any better. The Front Office is changing around you, the future doesnt look good , either its rebuild / tank or its same old same old.

Hes got to be thinking theres greener pastures out there for him

[Geaux_Hawks]

Why not just keep Howard, and actually utilize him more on offense. I felt it was times that we didn't use Howard, and it probably cost us. Bazemore OTOH could/should be jettisoned for smaller contracts considering we don't have much to work with in salary cap money.

Going back to my idea of adding Okafor, why don't we send Baze to Philly with a 1st round pick, and pick up Okafor and Jerryd Bayless? That turns Baze salary into 2 players, gives us a backup PG, and a PF/C off the bench that can score. Would also give us a replacement for when Sap/Howard are gone or expendable.

At that point, signing THJ would be easier to swallow, and our bad asset management isn't much of a factor in making us better now and later. Bayless comes off the books a year earlier than Baze, while being much cheaper to include in a deal as an expiring. Okafor might turn a corner, and pan out to be the top pick he was suppose to be and lead our youth movement.

Dennis/Bayless/Delaney
THJ/Dunleavy/Bembry
Prince/Bembry
Sap/Ersan(re-sign both)
Dwight/Okafor

We still have the MLE and draft picks to fill the roster

[ATL Boy]

I'd be all in on signing Mirotic to the MLE if he agrees to it. Skilled European big who specializes in the 3 point shot, and who could be taught team defense the way Korver was. I think it would be a good fit.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[PandaKidd]

Because I dont think its as simple as "Just use D12 more"

The game has passed him by. He has little to no dominant post moves anymore, or hes just not interested in doing it. He doesnt hustle up and down the court, hes a decent paint protector and rebounder but hes not an impact player anymore.

If they run the offense through Howard, who also isnt a great passer like Shaq was, itll be awful. I can only watch him miss 2ft ducks so many times.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Because I dont think its as simple as "Just use D12 more"

The game has passed him by. He has little to no dominant post moves anymore, or hes just not interested in doing it. He doesnt hustle up and down the court, hes a decent paint protector and rebounder but hes not an impact player anymore.

If they run the offense through Howard, who also isnt a great passer like Shaq was, itll be awful. I can only watch him miss 2ft ducks so many times.

I'm not saying run the offense through him, but feature some more P/R with him; go back to having elite spacing so he can crash the offensive boards and clean up the garbage; or try to find him for lobs. Also, any guy that can get you 20 rebounds in a game on any given night, change shots in the paint, anchor in the post, and contribute on offense is an impact player. May not be a superstar impact player, but i'm sure a lot of teams don't have that.

From an advanced statistics point, Dwight had his best season since his Orlando days. He posted a 15.0% ORB%, which was a career high and 2nd behind Drummond at 15.1. #4 in TRB% and DRB%. Top 5 in defensive rating. He was top 10 in DWS. Had his highest Offensive rating of his career at 115, and he's still among the best in TS% and eFG%. Overall, he had a very good season despite having a sub 20 USG%.

The problem Dwight has is not being utilized, which leads to frustration and mental check-outs. Later that results in him being benched for stretches where we could use his presence on the court.

The Hawks could make some noise and contend now if they just play their cards right. Some of that starts with Dwight and his use.

[tbhawksfan1]

Because I dont think its as simple as "Just use D12 more"

The game has passed him by. He has little to no dominant post moves anymore, or hes just not interested in doing it. He doesnt hustle up and down the court, hes a decent paint protector and rebounder but hes not an impact player anymore.

If they run the offense through Howard, who also isnt a great passer like Shaq was, itll be awful. I can only watch him miss 2ft ducks so many times.

I'm not saying run the offense through him, but feature some more P/R with him; go back to having elite spacing so he can crash the offensive boards and clean up the garbage; or try to find him for lobs. Also, any guy that can get you 20 rebounds in a game on any given night, change shots in the paint, anchor in the post, and contribute on offense is an impact player. May not be a superstar impact player, but i'm sure a lot of teams don't have that.

From an advanced statistics point, Dwight had his best season since his Orlando days. He posted a 15.0% ORB%, which was a career high and 2nd behind Drummond at 15.1. #4 in TRB% and DRB%. Top 5 in defensive rating. He was top 10 in DWS. Had his highest Offensive rating of his career at 115, and he's still among the best in TS% and eFG%. Overall, he had a very good season despite having a sub 20 USG%.

The problem Dwight has is not being utilized, which leads to frustration and mental check-outs. Later that results in him being benched for stretches where we could use his presence on the court.

The Hawks could make some noise and contend now if they just play their cards right. Some of that starts with Dwight and his use.

"The Hawks could make some noise and contend now if they just play their cards righ"

WHAT!!!? Eh could you please suggest an offseason senarrio that makes the Hawks contenders now? Please make sure that it works under the cap rules.

[Geaux_Hawks]

The Hawks could make some noise and contend now if they just play their cards right. Some of that starts with Dwight and his use.

"The Hawks could make some noise and contend now if they just play their cards righ"

WHAT!!!? Eh could you please suggest an offseason senarrio that makes the Hawks contenders now? Please make sure that it works under the cap rules.[/quote]

I mean if we're bringing back Sap for sure, then I think coaching and internal improvement would go a long way by itself. Buds no longer has to worry about being a president and focus more on coaching. Prince, Bembry, and Dennis should both continue to grow. Dwight Howard could certainly be involved more to keep him interested. We know what we have in Sap. THJ is up in the air, but I wouldn't doubt that if we bring Sap back, THJ will more than likely be back as well unless it costs to much.

That's not to say that we don't need an improvement in talent, but that's where getting creative comes in. See what you could move Baze for. It's a deep draft. Find an impact player in the draft. He may not have a huge impact this year, but maybe he can be in the running for ROY considering this deep class. Go back to finding guys on the "scrapheap". Obviously we can't do much with salary constraints, but that doesn't mean we can't improve.

[tbhawksfan1]

Schro, Prince and Bembry should continue to improve, but their improvement will be offset by the declining play of Sap, DH. Shro is bonafide, Prince looked pretty good, but was also one of the oldest first rounders. Bembry has shown nothing and can't shoot.

Salary constraints are going to make this the most futile offseason, since the last time we had to tank. You get more value by keeping Sap and THJ because of cap and bird. So we keep them, we continue decline with an even worse cap during the next few years. If you don't keep them the cap will limit to lesser FAs.

The odds of #19, #31 or #60 being ROY are too slim to talk about. Especially since Bud doesn't like rookies.

Ressler completely deflated any hope with the: I say what my GM is statement. Saying that in the middle of a GM search is.....hopeless. Especially since Ressler was at the helm for much of the recent front office disaster.

Hawks are going to field two old, declining bigs....one of them being Dwightmare Howard who can barely bend over....Schro, Prince and a bunch of guys that wouldn't play on a good team.

Hawks FO has been a joke for soooooooo long. Ressler has come in and made it worse. Hawks will never put a potentially elite, COMPETITIVE team on the court with a disfunctional FO/owner.

The fanboys that want to be excited about a declining, fringe playoff team with a dumpster fire FO can buy a jersey.

[tbhawksfan1]

When you're team has less talent, less young players with potential, less cap or luxuary tax potential and a front office in disarray and their plan is to keep using the mediocre blueprint....and you're OK with it??? you must like losing.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I honestly don't see Sap falling off a cliff in the next 2-3 years. He's only 32 and isn't reliant on athleticism. Guy just had like 25/11 with 5 assists against the Wizards.

Sure the massive contract he will want isn't going to reflect his potential value he will provide us on the court, but at the very least, he should be a solid #2 to Schro. As you said, Schro is a bonafide star PG, so if anything, with Sap still being a solid 2 way player, we should get better with internal improvements.

I don't get the hate for DH. He had his most productive season in a new system not built entirely around him since his Orlando days. Even with a bad back, he's around the league leaders in rebounds and defensive rating. We became a top 10 rebounding team mostly due to the uptick in ORB, and still had a top defense.

Our draft picks probably won't win ROY, but if we get someone who can maybe be in the discussion for it, then said player should be an impact piece for our team considering how deep this draft is with talent. There is lottery talent being pushed out of the lottery because it's that deep.

I think some fans just look at things from an extreme perspective, and assume the worst.

[tbhawksfan1]

I assumed 43-45 wins and a first round exit. Looks like I had it right. Even before the draft and FA, chances are we'll win 41-43 next season. Not the worst , but far from good. Playing to win those 42 games will furthur handicap any chance at real improvement.

[Jamaaliver]

I honestly don't see Sap falling off a cliff in the next 2-3 years. He's only 32 and isn't reliant on athleticism. Guy just had like 25/11 with 5 assists against the Wizards.

One issue to keep in mind regarding Millsap...he missed a noteworthy amount if time down the stretch of the regular season due to a knee injury.

That has to be factored in when deciding how much to invest in the guy. At best, we're looking at a Joe Johnson type of contract. A massive overpay for a guy still putting up All Star production.

At worst, we're saddled for half a decade with an injury prone, past-his-prime player who is limited greatly on when/if he can play.

Father time comes for us all. And the NBA regular season is unnecessarily beastly.

[PandaKidd]

I don't get the hate for DH. He had his most productive season in a new system not built entirely around him since his Orlando days.

But you cant have it both ways man. Either Bud is inept and took on a player for massive money that he doesnt know how to utilize, OR Howard doesnt want to do anything except what he does (hes not willing to play that role).

either way, ITS BAD.

Im not hating on Dwight Howard, im just saying hes a 13ppg and 12REB 23 MILLION DOLLAR PLAYER. Hes not an impact player anymore. I dont think its as simple as get him the ball in the post. I dont know if he wants to run PnR with DS or if DS wants to run PnR with him.

Sure doesnt look like it.

[PandaKidd]

I honestly don't see Sap falling off a cliff in the next 2-3 years. He's only 32 and isn't reliant on athleticism. Guy just had like 25/11 with 5 assists against the Wizards.

One issue to keep in mind regarding Millsap...he missed a noteworthy amount if time down the stretch of the regular season due to a knee injury.

That has to be factored in when deciding how much to invest in the guy. At best, we're looking at a Joe Johnson type of contract. A massive overpay for a guy still putting up All Star production.

At worst, we're saddled for half a decade with an injury prone, past-his-prime player who is limited greatly on when/if he can play.

Father time comes for us all. And the NBA regular season is unnecessarily beastly.

If they pay Millsap, it better be to trade him at the deadline this year.

The hawks cornered them into a bad place. Scoff at Millsap, and they will have BACK TO BACK seasons where their all stars walked away and they coudlnt keep them. Factor in the Dwightmare going on, doesnt look good.

They pay millsap, its a bad longterm move (if they dont trade him) and it make us locked into the same mediocre aging core for a long while.

They went from cap flexibility and a team that could possibly attract FA 2 years ago to this.....

[Jamaaliver]

If they pay Millsap, it better be to trade him at the deadline this year.

The hawks cornered them into a bad place. Scoff at Millsap, and they will have BACK TO BACK seasons where their all stars walked away and they coudlnt keep them. Factor in the Dwightmare going on, doesnt look good.

They pay millsap, its a bad longterm move (if they dont trade him) and it make us locked into the same mediocre aging core for a long while.

They went from cap flexibility and a team that could possibly attract FA 2 years ago to this.....

Yeah. There are no good options at this point. Only varying levels of bad.

Bud kept this core together at multiple trade deadlines out of affection for his players...or a stubborn belief that he could duplicate the magic of 2015.

And now we're paying the costs of those decisions.

Strategically, for long term benefit...the clear best option is to let Millsap walk away. Overpaying for him at this point leaves us with three largely untradeable contracts on players who aren't improving in the short term.

This reminds me of Indy a few years back. With Hibbert, West and Lance Stephenson in the roles of Dwight, Millsap and THJ. That whole team fell apart when their aging, All Star PF opted out of his contract and went ring chasing.

Could we be looking at the same scenario?

[PandaKidd]

If Im Millsap im walking, I know its easy for me to say because "80 million vs 100 million" in my perspective is fine. For him this is his ONLY big contract so if the Hawks offer the max maybe he will take it. Money is money no matter what you do.

But, I also dont get the feeling that Millsap is the money over everything kind of guy either.

He would be a great fit somewhere like SAS/OKC/Washington

[Jamaaliver]

If Im Millsap im walking, I know its easy for me to say because "80 million vs 100 million" in my perspective is fine. For him this is his ONLY big contract so if the Hawks offer the max maybe he will take it. Money is money no matter what you do.

But, I also dont get the feeling that Millsap is the money over everything kind of guy either.

He would be a great fit somewhere like SAS/OKC/Washington

If Millsap takes the max offer to stay here -- how long until he's viewed in ATL the way Carmelo is viewed in NYK?

It took less than a year for Kent Bazemore to be considered a burden on one of the worst contracts in the league.

Paul making $30+ million per year to average 16 ppg...man that sounds terrible.