Luka Doncic

[Prez]

And yet, in the NBA, Giannis is a star, or even superstar, while in FIBA basketball, he struggles in every competition. Because you can't travel and palm the whole game long under FIBA rules.

Nope, try again.
http://www.fiba.com/oqt/italy/2016/playerstats

4th in scoring in the FIBA qualifier tournament. 15 ppg on 50/33/100 shooting in only 24 mpg, and the 3 guys ahead of him played substantially bigger minutes (30+). Per 36 he's at 22 ppg. If Giannis "struggling" is him doing that, then it really puts into perspective just how massive the gap is between him and a guy like Spanoulis

[Mirotic12]

And yet, in the NBA, Giannis is a star, or even superstar, while in FIBA basketball, he struggles in every competition. Because you can't travel and palm the whole game long under FIBA rules.

Nope, try again.
http://www.fiba.com/oqt/italy/2016/playerstats

4th in scoring in the FIBA qualifier tournament. 15 ppg on 50/33/100 shooting in only 24 mpg, and the 3 guys ahead of him played substantially bigger minutes (30+). Per 36 he's at 22 ppg. If Giannis "struggling" is him doing that, then it really puts into perspective just how massive the gap is between him and a guy like Spanoulis

I'm not even going to argue you with. I'll just put you on ignore.

Giannis can't dribble without palming or traveling.

Giannis can't shoot jumpers.

Giannis can't score hardly at all beyond 8-10 feet from the rim.

He does have freakish level size, legnth, and athleticism as a combination. So in any league, he will be a useful player, obviously.

But only in the NBA rules and under NBA reffing will he be anything remotely close to be considered a top player.

[Prez]

And yet, in the NBA, Giannis is a star, or even superstar, while in FIBA basketball, he struggles in every competition. Because you can't travel and palm the whole game long under FIBA rules.

Nope, try again.
http://www.fiba.com/oqt/italy/2016/playerstats

4th in scoring in the FIBA qualifier tournament. 15 ppg on 50/33/100 shooting in only 24 mpg, and the 3 guys ahead of him played substantially bigger minutes (30+). Per 36 he's at 22 ppg. If Giannis "struggling" is him doing that, then it really puts into perspective just how massive the gap is between him and a guy like Spanoulis

I'm not even going to argue you with. I'll just put you on ignore.

You made a claim and I posted evidence clearly showing it's wrong. If that's a reason to put me on ignore, by all means, go for it. A struggling Giannis was 4th in tournament scoring only behind guys playing significantly more minutes.

The facts are, the NBA has a 52-13 advantage H2H against Euroleague, and Giannis even while "struggling" puts up 22 ppg per 36 minutes on 50% FG in the qualifier tournament.

These are facts and there's no other way to twist it.

[Mirotic12]

Nope, try again.
http://www.fiba.com/oqt/italy/2016/playerstats

4th in scoring in the FIBA qualifier tournament. 15 ppg on 50/33/100 shooting in only 24 mpg, and the 3 guys ahead of him played substantially bigger minutes (30+). Per 36 he's at 22 ppg. If Giannis "struggling" is him doing that, then it really puts into perspective just how massive the gap is between him and a guy like Spanoulis

I'm not even going to argue you with. I'll just put you on ignore.

You made a claim and I posted evidence clearly showing it's wrong. If that's a reason to put me on ignore, by all means, go for it.

No reason to wast time arguing with someone that is pretending NBA rules and ref criteria don't make 80% at least of Giannis' NBA game. Even some of the most die hard Giannis fans should be able to admit that.

Claiming Giannis would be as good under FIBA rules, as he is under NBA rules - It basically equates to someone arguing that Wilt Chamberlain would have the same numbers in today's NBA, that he did when he played back in the day. It's untrue, it's factually wrong, and it's pure fan boy fantasy and homerism.

[Prez]

I'm not even going to argue you with. I'll just put you on ignore.

You made a claim and I posted evidence clearly showing it's wrong. If that's a reason to put me on ignore, by all means, go for it.

I already did. Thanks. No reason to wast time arguing with someone that is pretending NBA rules and ref criteria don't make 80% at least of Giannis's NBA game. Even some of the most die hard Giannis fans should be able to admit that.

You can bring up all the NBA rules narratives you want but the fact is Giannis put up 22 ppg per 36 minutes on 50% shooting in the FIBA qualifier tournament. The fact that THAT is him struggling to you, shows how vastly better the NBA level of competition is.

[Bob8]

Nope, try again.
http://www.fiba.com/oqt/italy/2016/playerstats

4th in scoring in the FIBA qualifier tournament. 15 ppg on 50/33/100 shooting in only 24 mpg, and the 3 guys ahead of him played substantially bigger minutes (30+). Per 36 he's at 22 ppg. If Giannis "struggling" is him doing that, then it really puts into perspective just how massive the gap is between him and a guy like Spanoulis

I'm not even going to argue you with. I'll just put you on ignore.

You made a claim and I posted evidence clearly showing it's wrong. If that's a reason to put me on ignore, by all means, go for it. A struggling Giannis was 4th in tournament scoring only behind guys playing significantly more minutes.

The facts are, the NBA has a 52-13 advantage H2H against Euroleague, and Giannis even while "struggling" puts up 22 ppg per 36 minutes on 50% FG in the qualifier tournament.

These are facts and there's no other way to twist it.

against Iran and Mexico.

against Croatia was 9 in 33.

Behnam Yakhchali looks pretty decent player too.

[Mirotic12]

Just to get back to facts....This is how Giannis' game translates under FIBA rules, where they won't allow you to palm the ball and travel every time you touch it, and where there is no defensive 3 seconds rule....

Watch on YouTube

Anyone that would claim he doesn't struggle under FIBA rules, is most definitely not factually correct at the least, and most likely is posting with an agenda. Under any definition...Giannis struggles in FIBA against any quality European competition, and that might be generous, to say he merely struggles.

against Iran and Mexico.

against Croatia was 9 in 33.

Some people that are NBA only fans...they actually don't even consider any difference between Mexico and Iran, from European basketball...they say, things like, "it's just FIBA, it's all the same". Or they actually try to use stats from games against Mexico and Iran as "proof" that some player would do great in EuroLeague....Of course, in a European basketball forum, citing games against Mexico and Iran would be laughable to everyone.

[Prez]

52-13 NBA vs Euroleague H2H. Giannis 22 ppg per 36 on 50% FG in FIBA qualifiers. We cherry pick all we want and twist and turn the narratives but these are the facts. The NBA is on a different level than Euroleague and denying that is just silly.

[narcolepsy]

I think having 3 game sample size isnt exactly sufficient to debate if someone's struggling or not. Mexico and Iran arent exactly powerhouses and it's not really fair to draw conclusions after 1 bad game vs Croatia.

However if anyone actually believes he'll get close to his NBA averages (23/9/5.5) during this years Eurobasket... Giannis a future superstar, but that's just crazy talk.

[narcolepsy]

So this thread doesnt completly derails...

Watch on YouTube

[Mirotic12]

52-13 NBA vs Euroleague H2H. Giannis 22 ppg per 36 on 50% FG in FIBA qualifiers. We cherry pick all we want and twist and turn the narratives but these are the facts. The NBA is on a different level than Euroleague and denying that is just silly.

Not one person in this entire thread ever said any such thing as the EuroLeague is better than the NBA. No one here said that. That's first.

Second, denying Giannis is a worse player under FIBA rules than he is under NBA rules - is absolutely denying truth and fact, and everyone that has ever seen Giannis play with Greece's national team knows that.

And using stats against non European national teams.........You came in here with some stats against Iran and Mexico national teams, and turned around with that as "proof" of how Giannis would play in EuroLeague.......... Come on man, please get serious here, this is the draft forum, not the Bucks fan forum.

[Bob8]

So this thread doesnt completly derails...

Watch on YouTube

no way this is Doncic.

[Bob8]

maybe we should say something about doping control in Nba and how they don't check american players in the Olympics? maybe we can see incredible athletic abilities in different light.

[narcolepsy]

Well he will have a chance to show us his briliant passing next season. I cant wait how his wizardry will translate into the nba. Your hoping for what, lets say 12 assist per game minimal? I mean because there is such a huge gap in quality between him and dragic right? I think we can go with those 12 easy

I dont know how you can argue that Teodosič isnt the superior passer...

[peja_the_legend]

maybe we should say something about doping control in Nba and how they don't check american players in the Olympics? maybe we can see incredible athletic abilities in different light.

Bring any evidence that NBA players avoid doping control in Olympics.I'll wait.

[peja_the_legend]

In the best era for point guards in NBA history Dragic is a starter and one of 3 more important players of a team that barely missed the play offs.What are we even discussing here.Spanoulis was behind John Lucas III in rockets rotation.Jasikevicius was waving towels in Warriors after a disssapointing stint with Pacers..DeColo the reigning euroleague MVP,was also a bench warmer in Spurs and Raptors..Dragic is above any euroleague "legend" because he played in the toughest league and proved that he belongs there.

[pacersGM]

Well he will have a chance to show us his briliant passing next season. I cant wait how his wizardry will translate into the nba. Your hoping for what, lets say 12 assist per game minimal? I mean because there is such a huge gap in quality between him and dragic right? I think we can go with those 12 easy

I dont know how you can argue that Teodosič isnt the superior passer...

true, i exaggerate a bit. he probably is, since dragic is more of a scorer, but still a point guard, not sg.
but im saying teodosic will still have to prove himself in the nba. he will be able to get those more assist then dragic in case he can stay on the floor. meaning if he will defend enough, and score enough to earn those 30+ minutes he probably wants, since he said he wont come on the bench from europe.

[Prez]

In the best era for point guards in NBA history Dragic is a starter and one of 3 more important players of a team that barely missed the play offs.What are we even discussing here.Spanoulis was behind John Lucas III in rockets rotation.Jasikevicius was waving towels in Warriors after a disssapointing stint with Pacers..DeColo the reigning euroleague MVP,was also a bench warmer in Spurs and Raptors..Dragic is above any euroleague "legend" because he played in the toughest league and proved that he belongs there.

Yep. Spanoulis was a bonafide scrub in the best league in the world. Shane Larkin was as well, goes to Euroleague and is immediately a top 10 scorer. Dragic is so much better than Spanoulis it isn't even funny.

[pacersGM]

So this thread doesnt completly derails...

Watch on YouTube

no way this is Doncic.

shure he is, you can clearly recognize him, because he got the whole 30 cm of the ground, and avoided a block by the great paint defender luka bogdanovic, the 32 old forward from serbia, also knows for his extreme leaping ability and blocking prowess at that age

i bashed doncic a bit just for you, im sorry for that. but you cant really take this clip as an example of how an athletic play should look like.

ooops, and did i see a carried ball call missed by the refs in european basketball at 0:21 s?

[SportsGuy8]

Well if fiba europe or whoever runs this decides and wants to be watchable, and it cancels the camp inside the lane for 24 if i like, then im shure goran would be eating those european mozarts. I mean, since its played in the great european rule system. Well, the greek freak isnt made for this great euro sheme also, but im shure he wont loose sleep on it since he will be a getting 200 mil soon, and be the face pf the nba. But im shure people will have their heroes who will win many importaint titles in the second best league also. so enjoy the meaningful eurobasket by the way, who were the eruobasket champs in recent years? Hmm dont remember , probably because it really doesnt mean much

This is the type of attitude that makes it impossible to truly debate anything. You're acting like a child with your juvenile "sarcasm". Your spelling/grammar also points in that direction ...

P.s.: Mods, before you lock the thread again (I can sense that it's coming), why don't you just simply first deal with such individuals? It would be a real shame to happen right now, before Final 4 and ACB playoffs.