Hayward Undecided

[klemen4]

Im sure Jackson contract can be traded with a 2nd rounder and some money to team into their cap space. That would save 0,6 mill, than if the pick is nb.2 there is another million.

I think we will be able to keep 4 starters+Smart, Rozier and Brown+Rooklyn pick(if its not nb.1+ Zizic and be able to offer max to Hayward or Griffin. Also we are making this calculation as salary cap being 101 mill...it could be higher a million what would chance things. Still Im not worried.

[rickrolled]

Under contract:
$8,808,989 - Bradley
$4,956,480 - Brown
$6,796,117 - Crowder
$27,734,405 - Horford
$1,988,520 - Rozier
$4,538,020 - Smart
$6,261,395 - Thomas

If we get the #1 overall pick:
$5,855,200 - 2017 #1 pick [unsigned until Hayward signs to save room, then signs to 120% of his rookie scale]

Cap holds:
$7,735,033 - Olynyk RFA
$1,471,382 - Green
$9,500,000 - Jerebko
$15,600,000 - Johnson
$2,803,507 - Young

^ Green font likely renounced, Johnson could be back with room exception. Green for vet minimum.

Team options:
$8,000,000 - Zeller [7/2/17 fully guaranteed]
$1,384,750 ($650,000 guaranteed) - Jackson [7/15/17 fully guaranteed]
$1,471,382 - Mickey [7/15/17 fully guaranteed]

Draft pick cap holds:

$1,862,900 - Yabusele
$1,371,000 - Zizic


Empty roster charge or rookie minimum salary or 2nd rnd pick:

$815,615

Max contract player with 7-9 years of service:

$30,300,000 - Hayward/Griffin


Room exception:

$3,028,410

[165bows]

Isn't it more like $3 or $4 mil when you factor in years and raises?

Where is the discrepancy in these numbers? It looks like three cap holds are included there.

Based on that, it looks like they could likely afford him with a non #1 overall pick and no Rozier (including dumping Mickey on someone).

I think Slart wasn't questioning that the numbers add up, but was instead saying that giving up $1M in starting base salary would translate to several million over the course of a four year contract.

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense, I couldn't figure out where that number came to. That is true for sure, $1M would be $4M+ over a four year deal.

Have to be able to offer a full max, IMO. One way or the other.

[ddb]

Don't be shocked if Hayward takes slightly less than max to sign with Boston.

Sent from my SM-G930T using RealGM mobile app

[Captain_Caveman]

Doesn't work, cap factors in 12 roster slots, you'd get whacked with a ghost cap hold putting you over the limit. One of Smart, Bradley or Crowder is likely going to have to go to make it work

I think if you just move Rozier for a pick and keep Guerschon out another year, you get within $1mil and Hayward isn't overlooking us over 1mil.

Not sure exactly how you are doing it, but I think it is based on 13 players. Minny 2nd rounder is basically an equivalent to a cap hold as well.

[Fencer reregistered]

likely waived

I presume that you actually meant "renounced".

[Fencer reregistered]

Don't be shocked if Hayward takes slightly less than max to sign with Boston.

Especially if Tom Brady again joins the pitch.

[Banks2Pierce]

Not sure exactly how you are doing it, but I think it is based on 13 players. Minny 2nd rounder is basically an equivalent to a cap hold as well.

Thought the holds are only necessary up to 12 despite the minimum roster size being 13. Dangercart and Smitty seem to be using the 12. I'm a cap n00b so I'm not at all confident about anything.

The embarrassment of riches and likely flexibility of moves if we got the #1 pick and a commitment from Hayward is just such a joke that this probably doesn't even deserve a ton of discussion yet.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

All this math is giving me a headache

[Gant]

Don't be shocked if Hayward takes slightly less than max to sign with Boston.

This makes sense and has a decent chance of happening. I'm sure everyone here who is making 30 million a year knows they can pretty much buy everything they want at 28 million a year as well.

Another thought: Horford strongly considered OKC just because of Billy Donovan. The Brad Stevens gravity pull has to be even greater.

[stitches]

I didn't read all 6 pages, so forgive me if somebody said it in the last 4 pages(nobody in the first 2 did), but there seems to be a bit of confusion here about why would Hayward not opt-out of his deal... the reason Hayward might not opt out of his contract is financial. It's counter-intuitive since it looks like he makes a 13-14M discount for the Jazz. but if he makes all-nba team he becomes eligible for the 35% max extension, in which case he would more than make up those 14M on his new contract extension.

If he doesn't make all-nba team, he's going to opt-out either way(if he's staying or leaving).

[Captain_Caveman]

I didn't read all 6 pages, so forgive me if somebody said it in the last 4 pages(nobody in the first 2 did), but there seems to be a bit of confusion here about why would Hayward not opt-out of his deal... the reason Hayward might not opt out of his contract is financial. It's counter-intuitive since it looks like he makes a 13-14M discount for the Jazz. but if he makes all-nba team he becomes eligible for the 35% max extension, in which case he would more than make up those 14M on his new contract extension.

If he doesn't make all-nba team, he's going to opt-out either way(if he's staying or leaving).

Yes. It is pretty essential for him to get that last forward spot on the 3rd All-NBA team. I think he edges out Dray and George, and that you supermax him.

If not, he's definitely in play. In a Jazz fan's opinion, how acrimonious was his last extension? They opted not to extend after Year 3 and let it play out all the way to matching a max offer sheet from Charlotte. He couldn't have been too happy with that, and as I remember it, he wasn't.

[VeryMuchWoke]

I didn't read all 6 pages, so forgive me if somebody said it in the last 4 pages(nobody in the first 2 did), but there seems to be a bit of confusion here about why would Hayward not opt-out of his deal... the reason Hayward might not opt out of his contract is financial. It's counter-intuitive since it looks like he makes a 13-14M discount for the Jazz. but if he makes all-nba team he becomes eligible for the 35% max extension, in which case he would more than make up those 14M on his new contract extension.

Why wouldn't he opt out and sign a supermax deal starting next year?

[stitches]

I didn't read all 6 pages, so forgive me if somebody said it in the last 4 pages(nobody in the first 2 did), but there seems to be a bit of confusion here about why would Hayward not opt-out of his deal... the reason Hayward might not opt out of his contract is financial. It's counter-intuitive since it looks like he makes a 13-14M discount for the Jazz. but if he makes all-nba team he becomes eligible for the 35% max extension, in which case he would more than make up those 14M on his new contract extension.

Why wouldn't he opt out and sign a supermax deal starting next year?

Because there is no guarantee he makes all-nba team next year.

[stitches]

Yes. It is pretty essential for him to get that last forward spot on the 3rd All-NBA team. I think he edges out Dray and George, and that you supermax him.

If not, he's definitely in play. In a Jazz fan's opinion, how acrimonious was his last extension? They opted not to extend after Year 3 and let it play out all the way to matching a max offer sheet from Charlotte. He couldn't have been too happy with that, and as I remember it, he wasn't.

I wouldn't say it was particularly acrimonious. They had negotiations for extension the previous summer. According to some reports he wanted 14M and Jazz were offering 12M(same one Favors got). In essense there was not much downside for the Jazz to let him test free agency. Now in hindsight there was, because he got that player option on the last year, but at the time the downside to not signing him to what he wanted was maximum of about 2M per year. Even before he went to free agency the Jazz unequivocally told the media they will match any offer and they did so very quickly when he got it. There was never really any doubt that the Jazz wanted Hayward back. The only question was how much it will cost. They just told him to go get an offer.

[Captain_Caveman]

Yes. It is pretty essential for him to get that last forward spot on the 3rd All-NBA team. I think he edges out Dray and George, and that you supermax him.

If not, he's definitely in play. In a Jazz fan's opinion, how acrimonious was his last extension? They opted not to extend after Year 3 and let it play out all the way to matching a max offer sheet from Charlotte. He couldn't have been too happy with that, and as I remember it, he wasn't.

I wouldn't say it was particularly acrimonious. They had negotiations for extension the previous summer. According to some reports he wanted 14M and Jazz were offering 12M(same one Favors got). In essense there was not much downside for the Jazz to let him test free agency. Now in hindsight there was, because he got that player option on the last year, but at the time the downside to not signing him to what he wanted was maximum of about 2M per year. Even before he went to free agency the Jazz unequivocally told the media they will match any offer and they did so very quickly when he got it. There was never really any doubt that the Jazz wanted Hayward back. The only question was how much it will cost. They just told him to go get an offer.

Belichick does the same thing. It's the smart play from a GM standpoint, but there's a lot of guys who resent that. I'm thinking basketball players are worse than football players in that regard. Not really something that tells a guy that a team sees him as a core piece.

If he doesn't get All-NBA, guess we might see what he really thinks. Doesn't seem like he went too far out of his way to squash the free agent talk at season's end.

On our side of the equation, I go back to us not adding a core piece at the deadline. Literally didn't even try to get in the game, despite a lot of useful pieces being traded for not much. An anonymous exec (possibly Bird) was quoted as saying, “Danny wasn’t taking the Nets picks or really anything off the table, but the fact he was so comfortable waiting for the draft and summer scares the (expletive) out of me.”

[stitches]

Belichick does the same thing. It's the smart play from a GM standpoint, but there's a lot of guys who resent that. I'm thinking basketball players are worse than football players in that regard. Not really something that tells a guy that a team sees him as a core piece.

If he doesn't get All-NBA, guess we might see what he really thinks. Doesn't seem like he went too far out of his way to squash the free agent talk at season's end.

On our side of the equation, I go back to us not adding a core piece at the deadline. Literally didn't even try to get in the game, despite a lot of useful pieces being traded for not much. An anonymous exec (possibly Bird) was quoted as saying, “Danny wasn’t taking the Nets picks or really anything off the table, but the fact he was so comfortable waiting for the draft and summer scares the (expletive) out of me.”

I mean what's he supposed to say? He pretty much said all the right things in order to be as non-cimmittal either way as possible while being complimentary about the city, fans, etc. I don't read too much into it. It's not going to be one of those Gasol/Conley deals, though. He will see what's out there, he will see what other teams have to offer and I don't blame him for it. At the end of the day I think it comes down to what he thinks gives him the best chance to compete and win. The fact that the reports about him being undecided about opting out have surfaced tell me he sees the Jazz as a legitimate option. He's been saying for a while that competing is on the top of his list of priorities. So at the very least the Jazz are good enough option for him to allow the money question play a role into his decision. I guess we will have to wait and see.

A lot is hanging on this decision for the Jazz. Hill pretty much confirmed that his decision is tied to what Hayward decides, so losing Hayward would mean losing Hill most probably and that sets us back immeasurably. This is a very important summer for the Jazz. Probably the most important one in franchise history.

[165bows]

Yes. It is pretty essential for him to get that last forward spot on the 3rd All-NBA team. I think he edges out Dray and George, and that you supermax him.

If not, he's definitely in play. In a Jazz fan's opinion, how acrimonious was his last extension? They opted not to extend after Year 3 and let it play out all the way to matching a max offer sheet from Charlotte. He couldn't have been too happy with that, and as I remember it, he wasn't.

I wouldn't say it was particularly acrimonious. They had negotiations for extension the previous summer. According to some reports he wanted 14M and Jazz were offering 12M(same one Favors got). In essense there was not much downside for the Jazz to let him test free agency. Now in hindsight there was, because he got that player option on the last year, but at the time the downside to not signing him to what he wanted was maximum of about 2M per year. Even before he went to free agency the Jazz unequivocally told the media they will match any offer and they did so very quickly when he got it. There was never really any doubt that the Jazz wanted Hayward back. The only question was how much it will cost. They just told him to go get an offer.

Belichick does the same thing. It's the smart play from a GM standpoint, but there's a lot of guys who resent that. I'm thinking basketball players are worse than football players in that regard. Not really something that tells a guy that a team sees him as a core piece.

If he doesn't get All-NBA, guess we might see what he really thinks. Doesn't seem like he went too far out of his way to squash the free agent talk at season's end.

On our side of the equation, I go back to us not adding a core piece at the deadline. Literally didn't even try to get in the game, despite a lot of useful pieces being traded for not much. An anonymous exec (possibly Bird) was quoted as saying, “Danny wasn’t taking the Nets picks or really anything off the table, but the fact he was so comfortable waiting for the draft and summer scares the (expletive) out of me.”

Yeah I can't remember the details on that quote either but it's a great, great quote lol.

[Smitty731]

Not sure exactly how you are doing it, but I think it is based on 13 players. Minny 2nd rounder is basically an equivalent to a cap hold as well.

Thought the holds are only necessary up to 12 despite the minimum roster size being 13. Dangercart and Smitty seem to be using the 12. I'm a cap n00b so I'm not at all confident about anything.

The embarrassment of riches and likely flexibility of moves if we got the #1 pick and a commitment from Hayward is just such a joke that this probably doesn't even deserve a ton of discussion yet.

It is 12.

Also, second picks have no cap hold prior to being signed. They only factor into the calculation for the Tax Apron.

[Smitty731]

On Hayward, he is almost 100% to opt out. There is no reason for him to opt in. It is far from certain that he'll make All-NBA, so no reason to opt in.

On his last time around in FA, it was sort of ugly. The Jazz made an offer and told him "Go see what you can get. If it is more than our offer, we'll match." He did not appreciate that at all, and informally requested that they not match the offer sheet he signed with the Hornets. Since then, things seem to have been repaired, but sometimes things linger forever.