And Then There Was One: Thank Nation 2. Raps pick 23rd

[HeadtopChunes]

what are the chances we can grab an undrafted Peter Jok? Looks like his shooting can be a huge benefit to us.

[BoyzNTheHood]

what are the chances we can grab an undrafted Peter Jok? Looks like his shooting can be a huge benefit to us.

I think he'll go in the 2nd round, but if he's undrafted he'd be a great pick up.

[Kevin Willis]

Just got home and it's nice to see my guys showing why I've tabbed them...

Justin Jackson (MD)

#1 on my Raptors draft board. Showed himself to be longer than Kawhi Leonard, which is ridiculous to say the least. I can't wait to see hand measurements because his will be gigantic. He's one helluva mold to work with. A super toolsy guy, with a wet jumper, that could potentially guard 1-5? Sign me up!

Wesley Iwundu

#2 on my board measured ridiculously as well. Wesley is one of those guys that becomes a Khris Middleton, or Norman Powell and people wonder how they missed him. Well, look at his tools, look at his style of play, look at his production. This kid is can't miss. A senior with a versatile style of play with all the tools at his disposal? If he was 19 he'd be top-5, just like Maryland's Justin Jackson. Don't sleep Raptorland!

Kyle Kuzma

Yes, another Ute. But they produce quality! This guy is the 4 man we can plug and play right away. He has built-in ability to play with 2 of our young fellas already. A versatile stretch-4 that plays team ball. He's super glue on any roster. He just always makes the right play. That's a talent that not many possess.

Jordan Bell

Many of us liked him, but I'm not sure how much. Not too many guys like to pick a hustle guy, but this guy is a game changer. He's that kid you hate playing against because he'll always out work you. When you're ready to give up he'll be right there, laughing. Blocking you shot, dunking on your head, embarrassing you. He's the guy that beats you because he gets to every loose ball, and comes from the weakside to block your superstars game winning shot attempt.

These 4 are excellent choices and I would be happy with anyone of them. The question is which one would fit into a team that will focus more on offense next year. That's the negative for Bell since he's more defense than offense and his skillset overlaps Siakam. But the other 3 can score at 2, 3 and 4 position with strong measurements.

I don't like OG, I think he will be another Noah Vonleh. Great measurements and frame but lack of transferable skill in today's NBA.

[Tortiglioni]

Iwundu was an abomination in the combine scrimmage:

0/5 FG (0/1 3PT), 1 REB, 1 AST, 3 TO, 1 STL, 4 PF (-27 in 20 min)

[Kevin Willis]

It's just scrimmage. Have to look at the entire body of work. Kuzma killed scrimmage but I wouldn't say he's a better prospect.

[CoachJReturns]

Terrence "Ross" Ferguson with the short arms.

He's only 6'5.5 without shoes and has a 6'8.8 wingspan. That's not short arms, just not long by NBA standards as basketball seems to attract people with higher wingspan to height ratios.
Average ratio for the general population is a 1/1 ratio. If he's there at 23 it's still not a bad pick at all, but I'll understand if everyone here wants some more reach. Frankly, we're not picking top 10 this year and everyone available is flawed in some way.

Of the guys I think could still be on the board, I like:
Anigbogu, Rabb, Diallo, Evans, Paseckniks, Kuzma, Robinson.

On the fence: Swanigan, Jeanne(only because we have Poeltl), Leaf.

Don't want: Lydon, Giles, Adebayo(could be good, but I'd rather he go somewhere else), Semi, Iwundu.

Trade for a second rounder: Oliver.

[CoachJReturns]

It's just scrimmage. Have to look at the entire body of work. Kuzma killed scrimmage but I wouldn't say he's a better prospect.

Than who, Iwundu? His body of work, if we're actually referring to college production here which I assume we are, is nothing special. He was fairly efficient, but a guy scoring 13 points a game, grabbing 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 0.3 blocks a game as a senior isn't really blowing anyone away with his body of work. His assist numbers were good and he shot decently with a much higher volume of 3 point attempts, but he's as flawed as the rest of these guys.
Kuzma had a nice year statistically, but his measurements aren't anything impressive. If Iwundu is the better prospect it's more due to physical profile than any skill, past performance I think.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Yeah, Iwundu actually didn't have great advanced metrics. But, he's got the ideal physical tools (doesn't have a good first step though), it's just his play didn't always back it up.

[PhilBlackson]

Just got home and it's nice to see my guys showing why I've tabbed them...

Justin Jackson (MD)

#1 on my Raptors draft board. Showed himself to be longer than Kawhi Leonard, which is ridiculous to say the least. I can't wait to see hand measurements because his will be gigantic. He's one helluva mold to work with. A super toolsy guy, with a wet jumper, that could potentially guard 1-5? Sign me up!

Wesley Iwundu

#2 on my board measured ridiculously as well. Wesley is one of those guys that becomes a Khris Middleton, or Norman Powell and people wonder how they missed him. Well, look at his tools, look at his style of play, look at his production. This kid is can't miss. A senior with a versatile style of play with all the tools at his disposal? If he was 19 he'd be top-5, just like Maryland's Justin Jackson. Don't sleep Raptorland!

Kyle Kuzma

Yes, another Ute. But they produce quality! This guy is the 4 man we can plug and play right away. He has built-in ability to play with 2 of our young fellas already. A versatile stretch-4 that plays team ball. He's super glue on any roster. He just always makes the right play. That's a talent that not many possess.

Jordan Bell

Many of us liked him, but I'm not sure how much. Not too many guys like to pick a hustle guy, but this guy is a game changer. He's that kid you hate playing against because he'll always out work you. When you're ready to give up he'll be right there, laughing. Blocking you shot, dunking on your head, embarrassing you. He's the guy that beats you because he gets to every loose ball, and comes from the weakside to block your superstars game winning shot attempt.

Kuzma is a good pick and Jordan Bell could be alright but his length and rudimentary skills could be an issue at the next level.

I have no idea why you hype Jackson up so much though. He has great physical tools I'll give you that but if you think T-Ross was frustrating with consistency wait until you see Jackson...he was very unassertive as a HS player and continued to be in college with the exception of a few good games. I'm not sure I want to deal with another player that just infuriates us because he'll look borderline all-star one game and the next 5-6 games you're not sure if he's on court or down in the D-League. Also to throw out Kawhi's name the first thing you think is lockdown defender, maybe I missed it but I didn't see that of him. I'd love to be dead wrong on him because he has great physical tools, if anything physically at least he reminds me of a James Johnson/Ibaka hybrid lol

As for Iwundu, he doesn't look comfortable shooting off the dribble and for a team that is looking to bolster their shooting I fail to see the appeal of him other than good measurements. That's also going to be a lot tougher in the pros versus the crappy division he was in, I'd even rather take Jackson over him.

I'm with ya on Kuzma though. He looks like a kid that just keeps improving his ballhandling fluidity and shooting. Looks almost like a poorman's Simmons, obviously nowhere near the level of passer but in terms of his ability to run the ball up court and dribble. I really like him because he fits that mold of big SF/PF to push the ball up and collapse the defence off of. The only real knock I have against him is he doesn't look like a great defender but I'm sure that can be improved.

[PhilBlackson]

Terrence "Ross" Ferguson with the short arms.

He's only 6'5.5 without shoes and has a 6'8.8 wingspan. That's not short arms, just not long by NBA standards as basketball seems to attract people with higher wingspan to height ratios.
Average ratio for the general population is a 1/1 ratio. If he's there at 23 it's still not a bad pick at all, but I'll understand if everyone here wants some more reach. Frankly, we're not picking top 10 this year and everyone available is flawed in some way.

Of the guys I think could still be on the board, I like:
Anigbogu, Rabb, Diallo, Evans, Paseckniks, Kuzma, Robinson.

On the fence: Swanigan, Jeanne(only because we have Poeltl), Leaf.

Don't want: Lydon, Giles, Adebayo(could be good, but I'd rather he go somewhere else), Semi, Iwundu.

Trade for a second rounder: Oliver.

I have similar tastes for the most part minus Rabb who isn't that quick or have the shooting range of a modern PF and is also good a nearing obsolete skill trait which is post game and working off the blocks which is just a space clogger nowadays.

Guys on board right now (of course OG Anunoby aside)...

Ike Anigbogu
Jawun Evans
Kyle Kuzma
Jonah Bolden
Jonathan Jeanne
Isaiah Hartenstein
Donovan Mitchell
Hamidou Diallo
Justin Patton

I'm not sure if Mikal Bridges is officially going back to Villanova but if not I would be all over drafting him too.

[CoachJReturns]

Just got home and it's nice to see my guys showing why I've tabbed them...

Justin Jackson (MD)

#1 on my Raptors draft board. Showed himself to be longer than Kawhi Leonard, which is ridiculous to say the least. I can't wait to see hand measurements because his will be gigantic. He's one helluva mold to work with. A super toolsy guy, with a wet jumper, that could potentially guard 1-5? Sign me up!

Wesley Iwundu

#2 on my board measured ridiculously as well. Wesley is one of those guys that becomes a Khris Middleton, or Norman Powell and people wonder how they missed him. Well, look at his tools, look at his style of play, look at his production. This kid is can't miss. A senior with a versatile style of play with all the tools at his disposal? If he was 19 he'd be top-5, just like Maryland's Justin Jackson. Don't sleep Raptorland!

Kyle Kuzma

Yes, another Ute. But they produce quality! This guy is the 4 man we can plug and play right away. He has built-in ability to play with 2 of our young fellas already. A versatile stretch-4 that plays team ball. He's super glue on any roster. He just always makes the right play. That's a talent that not many possess.

Jordan Bell

Many of us liked him, but I'm not sure how much. Not too many guys like to pick a hustle guy, but this guy is a game changer. He's that kid you hate playing against because he'll always out work you. When you're ready to give up he'll be right there, laughing. Blocking you shot, dunking on your head, embarrassing you. He's the guy that beats you because he gets to every loose ball, and comes from the weakside to block your superstars game winning shot attempt.

Kuzma is a good pick and Jordan Bell could be alright but his length and rudimentary skills could be an issue at the next level.

I have no idea why you hype Jackson up so much though. He has great physical tools I'll give you that but if you think T-Ross was frustrating with consistency wait until you see Jackson...he was very unassertive as a HS player and continued to be in college with the exception of a few good games. I'm not sure I want to deal with another player that just infuriates us because he'll look borderline all-star one game and the next 5-6 games you're not sure if he's on court or down in the D-League. Also to throw out Kawhi's name the first thing you think is lockdown defender, maybe I missed it but I didn't see that of him. I'd love to be dead wrong on him because he has great physical tools, if anything physically at least he reminds me of a James Johnson/Ibaka hybrid lol

As for Iwundu, he doesn't look comfortable shooting off the dribble and for a team that is looking to bolster their shooting I fail to see the appeal of him other than good measurements. That's also going to be a lot tougher in the pros versus the crappy division he was in, I'd even rather take Jackson over him.

I'm with ya on Kuzma though. He looks like a kid that just keeps improving his ballhandling fluidity and shooting. Looks almost like a poorman's Simmons, obviously nowhere near the level of passer but in terms of his ability to run the ball up court and dribble. I really like him because he fits that mold of big SF/PF to push the ball up and collapse the defence off of. The only real knock I have against him is he doesn't look like a great defender but I'm sure that can be improved.

I think we need to stop bringing up Kawhi permanently in draft threads. Guys mention him every couple pages and never go into the details of how he became this basketball behemoth. He was a small forward who averaged a double double and was a monster defender in college. He was also productive offensively, just not fully developed. His motor was off the charts as was his physical profile, from strength, athleticism and length. He was then developed by the best organization in basketball and due to his incredible work ethic became an elite offensive player. Players like that do not come along often. He is a rare combination of traits and to keep brining his name up is flat out dumb. There have been thousands of role players over the years who will more closely approximate a prospect. Why not mention one of them instead of overhyping these kids who haven't proven a thing yet as a professional athlete?

And I agree with your thoughts on Kuzma's offense, though his physical profile(short arms) and collegiate defensive numbers 0.5 blocks, 0.6 steals suggest his defensive potential will be very limited. He rebounded alright, so hopefully that at least translates. We need guys with some offensive skill, so Kuzma should get a look. Really we need great two way players, but those aren't easy to come by and there don't look to be any available so late in the draft.

[CoachJReturns]

Terrence "Ross" Ferguson with the short arms.

He's only 6'5.5 without shoes and has a 6'8.8 wingspan. That's not short arms, just not long by NBA standards as basketball seems to attract people with higher wingspan to height ratios.
Average ratio for the general population is a 1/1 ratio. If he's there at 23 it's still not a bad pick at all, but I'll understand if everyone here wants some more reach. Frankly, we're not picking top 10 this year and everyone available is flawed in some way.

Of the guys I think could still be on the board, I like:
Anigbogu, Rabb, Diallo, Evans, Paseckniks, Kuzma, Robinson.

On the fence: Swanigan, Jeanne(only because we have Poeltl), Leaf.

Don't want: Lydon, Giles, Adebayo(could be good, but I'd rather he go somewhere else), Semi, Iwundu.

Trade for a second rounder: Oliver.

I have similar tastes for the most part minus Rabb who isn't that quick or have the shooting range of a modern PF and is also good a nearing obsolete skill trait which is post game and working off the blocks which is just a space clogger nowadays.

Guys on board right now (of course OG Anunoby aside)...

Ike Anigbogu
Jawun Evans
Kyle Kuzma
Jonah Bolden
Jonathan Jeanne
Isaiah Hartenstein
Donovan Mitchell
Hamidou Diallo
Justin Patton

I'm not sure if Mikal Bridges is officially going back to Villanova but if not I would be all over drafting him too.

I know Rabb is an unpopular pick here. I think I'm the last guy who still likes him. My hope is his shot continues to develop and that combined with his other skills ie. Post game, rebounding, passing, make him a net positive on the floor, though I'm aware of his limitations as a perimeter defender. He has decent bball IQ, so over time that might make up for it a bit, but he'll never be a great perimeter defender which becomes more of an issue if he is playing with other guys who lack defensive versatility like JV and poor defenders like DeMar.
But like I said, all these guys will have flaws in this range. I don't overhype any of my picks and am not expecting stardom from anyone, as nice as that would be.

[S.W.A.N]

Really we need great two way players, but those aren't easy to come by and there don't look to be any available so late in the draft.

Josh Hart

[OAKLEY_2]

Sindarius.

[Kevin Willis]

It's just scrimmage. Have to look at the entire body of work. Kuzma killed scrimmage but I wouldn't say he's a better prospect.

Than who, Iwundu? His body of work, if we're actually referring to college production here which I assume we are, is nothing special. He was fairly efficient, but a guy scoring 13 points a game, grabbing 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 0.3 blocks a game as a senior isn't really blowing anyone away with his body of work. His assist numbers were good and he shot decently with a much higher volume of 3 point attempts, but he's as flawed as the rest of these guys.
Kuzma had a nice year statistically, but his measurements aren't anything impressive. If Iwundu is the better prospect it's more due to physical profile than any skill, past performance I think.

If Iwundu had better numbers he would be a top 10 pick in this draft. He's a decent shooter - he is a jack-of-all trades kind of guy but a master of none. But at our pick that kind of versatility would be appealing.

Kumza is a good player. Not explosive - reminds me a bit of Kyle Anderson with his smoothness. Definitely not as skilled but he has the potential to be a good stretch 4 if he gets some consistency in his shot.

Justin Jackson isn't consistent but he has potential to be good with consistency. Very good. Could our culture motivate him enough to be there - possibly. Plus he's a Canadian kid and he might play better at home.

[CoachJReturns]

Sindarius.

He has a very similar profile to Norm, not that that's a bad thing. Just wouldn't be any room for him on this team.

[CoachJReturns]

It's just scrimmage. Have to look at the entire body of work. Kuzma killed scrimmage but I wouldn't say he's a better prospect.

Than who, Iwundu? His body of work, if we're actually referring to college production here which I assume we are, is nothing special. He was fairly efficient, but a guy scoring 13 points a game, grabbing 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 0.3 blocks a game as a senior isn't really blowing anyone away with his body of work. His assist numbers were good and he shot decently with a much higher volume of 3 point attempts, but he's as flawed as the rest of these guys.
Kuzma had a nice year statistically, but his measurements aren't anything impressive. If Iwundu is the better prospect it's more due to physical profile than any skill, past performance I think.

If Iwundu had better numbers he would be a top 10 pick in this draft. He's a decent shooter - he is a jack-of-all trades kind of guy but a master of none. But at our pick that kind of versatility would be appealing.

Kumza is a good player. Not explosive - reminds me a bit of Kyle Anderson with his smoothness. Definitely not as skilled but he has the potential to be a good stretch 4 if he gets some consistency in his shot.

Justin Jackson isn't consistent but he has potential to be good with consistency. Very good. Could our culture motivate him enough to be there - possibly. Plus he's a Canadian kid and he might play better at home.

I've been wrong before and I could be again, but I don't see it with Iwundu at all.

[HeadtopChunes]

Ojeleye measured to be very similar to Carroll 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan. I see a ton of hype for him from Raptors fans. Looks like a good shooter, has defensive upside but probably mediocre, and struggles finishing against length and athleticism. He's not a great standstill jumper either with a 25inch standing vert. He can catch running oops tho his max vertical is probably higher.

He's low upside but can probably contribute sooner than later.

His stock has fallen on DE so maybe we can trade down for him if nobody better is available at our pick.

[Kevin Willis]

Than who, Iwundu? His body of work, if we're actually referring to college production here which I assume we are, is nothing special. He was fairly efficient, but a guy scoring 13 points a game, grabbing 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 0.3 blocks a game as a senior isn't really blowing anyone away with his body of work. His assist numbers were good and he shot decently with a much higher volume of 3 point attempts, but he's as flawed as the rest of these guys.
Kuzma had a nice year statistically, but his measurements aren't anything impressive. If Iwundu is the better prospect it's more due to physical profile than any skill, past performance I think.

If Iwundu had better numbers he would be a top 10 pick in this draft. He's a decent shooter - he is a jack-of-all trades kind of guy but a master of none. But at our pick that kind of versatility would be appealing.

Kumza is a good player. Not explosive - reminds me a bit of Kyle Anderson with his smoothness. Definitely not as skilled but he has the potential to be a good stretch 4 if he gets some consistency in his shot.

Justin Jackson isn't consistent but he has potential to be good with consistency. Very good. Could our culture motivate him enough to be there - possibly. Plus he's a Canadian kid and he might play better at home.

I've been wrong before and I could be again, but I don't see it with Iwundu at all.

You might be right, I'm going to back and check a couple of his games.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Iwundu was an abomination in the combine scrimmage:

0/5 FG (0/1 3PT), 1 REB, 1 AST, 3 TO, 1 STL, 4 PF (-27 in 20 min)

Norman Powell at the scrimmage went 2/8 shooting with 4 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist. I guess he's an abomination too. Try to keep things in perspective...

Kuzma is a good pick and Jordan Bell could be alright but his length and rudimentary skills could be an issue at the next level.

I have no idea why you hype Jackson up so much though. He has great physical tools I'll give you that but if you think T-Ross was frustrating with consistency wait until you see Jackson...he was very unassertive as a HS player and continued to be in college with the exception of a few good games. I'm not sure I want to deal with another player that just infuriates us because he'll look borderline all-star one game and the next 5-6 games you're not sure if he's on court or down in the D-League. Also to throw out Kawhi's name the first thing you think is lockdown defender, maybe I missed it but I didn't see that of him. I'd love to be dead wrong on him because he has great physical tools, if anything physically at least he reminds me of a James Johnson/Ibaka hybrid lol

As for Iwundu, he doesn't look comfortable shooting off the dribble and for a team that is looking to bolster their shooting I fail to see the appeal of him other than good measurements. That's also going to be a lot tougher in the pros versus the crappy division he was in, I'd even rather take Jackson over him.

I'm with ya on Kuzma though. He looks like a kid that just keeps improving his ballhandling fluidity and shooting. Looks almost like a poorman's Simmons, obviously nowhere near the level of passer but in terms of his ability to run the ball up court and dribble. I really like him because he fits that mold of big SF/PF to push the ball up and collapse the defence off of. The only real knock I have against him is he doesn't look like a great defender but I'm sure that can be improved.

In Jordon Bell you know what you'll get. A tireless worker that may be able to guard 2-5 in the NBA. No one is expecting this guy to be skilled like Kyrie, but you wouldn't be mad with a pick like him.

For Jackson I hype him up because of the tools. He has some of the best in the draft. I'm not saying he's going to be Kawhi and have never made the mistake of putting his on-court performance in the realm of Kawhi. I simply say that both are toolsy, quiet guys. There is a GREAT base to work with in Justin Jackson. No one expected Kawhi to be more than a mediocre tweener in the NBA, but San Antonio worked relentlessly with the guy and he became great in their system. Who's the say Justin Jackson doesn't just become what James Johnson has been for Miami this year? Or maybe a Boris Diaw type? At 23 I'd take that 11/10 times.

Iwundu would be a rookie so we're not expecting him to be our saviour shooter. If we want that we might as well select Peter Jok or Luke Kennard. But if he can add a jumper, like Norman did, Iwundu is 10 times the player of Jok/Kennard. He'll create for you, he'll defend, and he'll keep the ball moving. That was our biggest achilles heel. Crappy competition didn't hurt guys like Lillard and McCollum. And no, I'm not saying he's either of those two but the myth of poor conferences has been debunked.

And we agree on Kuzma.