Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen

[Winsome Gerbil]

Perhaps what is needed here is an introduction to Scottie Pippen, a player I didn't particularly like BTW, but hey:

10x All Defense (8 straight First Team)
7x All NBA (3/2/2)
6x NBA Champion
7x All Star

defensive stopper and triggerman on arguably the greatest dynasty in the NBA's last 50 years. Often considered the GOAT SF defender.

Scottie Pippen is who Draymond wants to be one day. So far Draymond's 27 years old, has 1 title, 2 All Stars, and possibly a 2nd All NBA of some sort coming.

[DROB27]

This is becoming flat out ridiculous at this point ...

Give me Scottie

[Jim Naismith]

Perhaps what is needed here is an introduction to Scottie Pippen, a player I didn't particularly like BTW, but hey:

10x All Defense (8 straight First Team)
7x All NBA (3/2/2)
6x NBA Champion
7x All Star

defensive stopper and triggerman on arguably the greatest dynasty in the NBA's last 50 years. Often considered the GOAT SF defender.

Scottie Pippen is who Draymond wants to be one day. So far Draymond's 27 years old, has 1 title, 2 All Stars, and possibly a 2nd All NBA of some sort coming.

This question is about peak, so listing career accolades is of dubious relevance.

[HeartBreakKid]

Perhaps what is needed here is an introduction to Scottie Pippen, a player I didn't particularly like BTW, but hey:

10x All Defense (8 straight First Team)
7x All NBA (3/2/2)
6x NBA Champion
7x All Star

defensive stopper and triggerman on arguably the greatest dynasty in the NBA's last 50 years. Often considered the GOAT SF defender.

Scottie Pippen is who Draymond wants to be one day. So far Draymond's 27 years old, has 1 title, 2 All Stars, and possibly a 2nd All NBA of some sort coming.

We have Wikipedia also


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Jim Naismith]

Pippen's scoring ability was EASILY better than Green's, like two tiers ahead of Draymond, especially in terms of creating his own shot on a consistent basis, Scottie was FAR better. I would love to see Draymond trying to be the leading scorer (by a large margin) of a 55-win team, as Pippen was in 1994. There's no way he would be able to do that, not even close.

To me, judging them by the ability to be the leading scorer is missing the larger picture.

Is Pippen > Bill Russell or is Pippen > peak Walton?

[Quotatious]

Is Pippen > Bill Russell or is Pippen > peak Walton?

No, but Green is not on Russell's or even Walton's level on defense or on the boards. Peak Russell and Walton had complete control over the game, in a way that Draymond hasn't even approached (and I doubt he ever will).

[lorak]

Is Pippen > Bill Russell or is Pippen > peak Walton?

No, but Green is not on Russell's or even Walton's level on defense or on the boards. Peak Russell and Walton had complete control over the game, in a way that Draymond hasn't even approached (and I doubt he ever will).

Last year Green was at level of KG according to DRAPM (and only Garnett was approaching that level regularly since we have data - Engelmann's NPI published after '15). This season he would probably be even better, so your statement is very doubtful. Especially if we add playmaking and spacing, what makes Green overall at least as valuable as Walton.

And BTW, do you think Walton was better at rim defender than Gobert?

[DROB27]

Perhaps what is needed here is an introduction to Scottie Pippen, a player I didn't particularly like BTW, but hey:

10x All Defense (8 straight First Team)
7x All NBA (3/2/2)
6x NBA Champion
7x All Star

defensive stopper and triggerman on arguably the greatest dynasty in the NBA's last 50 years. Often considered the GOAT SF defender.

Scottie Pippen is who Draymond wants to be one day. So far Draymond's 27 years old, has 1 title, 2 All Stars, and possibly a 2nd All NBA of some sort coming.

This question is about peak, so listing career accolades is of dubious relevance.

Yea and peak pippen was the better player ...

[MrSashimiLover]

On one hand, Draymond is the perfect complementary piece
On the other hand Pippen can take up a first option load if needed

I see it this way

As a 2nd option: Pippen
As a 3rd option: Draymond
As an "end of the line" starter with defensive duties: Draymond

As always, It depends on what you need.

Yeah, I agree. Draymond Green is not as good as Scottie Pippen if we're talking about who's a better No.1 option on a team. But if we're talking about who would be a better fit for a team that already has an offensive anchor, or two legit scorers, Draymond could be at least as valuable or even more valuable than Pippen to the team.

I think what ultimately put Green in the conversation is his versatility. He's not necessarily the best lock down defender (Kawhi, Scottie, Gary Payton), the best rebounder (Dennis Rodman), or the best rim protector (Tim Duncan, Andrew Bogut, etc). But he's so good at everything that it's not far-fetched to say that, under various circumstances, he would be equally desirable or more desirable than Pippen to a team.

[Shot Clock]

this stuff has got to stop.

Why is it so difficult to so many people to admit, that some new unique player might be better than legends from the past?

Maybe people can but these comparison are just absurd to anyone that has watched the game for years. For example the Kobe>MJ threads that ran over and over during the early 2000's looked absurd to everyone and it took years for them to die off now almost no one would defend that. Meanwhile Lebron has moved into the argument. When an argument has merit it forms a debate when it's DG vs SP (a number 3 guy) vs a all time great it gets eye rolls as just another absurd overreaction by fans.

[Dr Positivity]

Pippen is by far the better offensive player, to make a case for Draymond you have to say he has a significant edge on D, I guess one could try but this is Pippen we're talking about

[GSP]

Is Pippen > Bill Russell or is Pippen > peak Walton?

No, but Green is not on Russell's or even Walton's level on defense or on the boards. Peak Russell and Walton had complete control over the game, in a way that Draymond hasn't even approached (and I doubt he ever will).

Last year Green was at level of KG according to DRAPM (and only Garnett was approaching that level regularly since we have data - Engelmann's NPI published after '15). This season he would probably be even better, so your statement is very doubtful. Especially if we add playmaking and spacing, what makes Green overall at least as valuable as Walton.

And BTW, do you think Walton was better at rim defender than Gobert?

How significant is Draymond spacing really? Teams have 0 respect for his shooting/scoring. He has so much open space with no defender near him. When he was going off in game 7 of the finals shooting Cavs made 0 adjustments in defending him

Last year seems like an outlierish season ITO shooting for him

4.4 3pa per 100 possessions on .388 shooting

hes a career 4.9 3pa / .339 shooting guy, removing last season hes at 3.9 3pa per 100 possessions on .322 shooting

and those shooting numbers are with him being assisted on over 97% of his 3s in his career playing with by far the best spacing/open shots any player could imagine with defensive attention barely on him offball. He does have value in shooting the 3 as a big but its not much of anything to extenuate his offensive abilities considering how relatively mediocre he is at shooting and the wing spacing he has

Significant spacing impact for guys like Patrick Patterson, Love, Dirk, Ryan Anderson, Ibaka (more his midrange stretching than 3), Mirza, Marvin Williams (in recent years) etc. Draymond isn't on that level

Draymond shouldnt be in that company as far as shooting the 3 ball from that positions, hes fairly mediocre at "stretching the floor" and i can only imagine how poor his shooting numbers would be on weaker teams, specially if he was in a position where he had to scale his scoring. I dont think he has much value in it

Not to mention what has happened in past when teams actually put effort in defending him with mobile/long/strong athletic wings (Giannis, Aaron Gordon, Kd, Lebron, Covington, Jamychael etc). Kd absolutely erased his offensive impact and shut him down in their series

[GeneralManager]

"Good-at-several-things" but "great-at-nothing" type of versatility has become overrated both with Draymond in a Top 35-75 sense and with LeBron in a Top 10 sense.

Pippen is also overrated this way (really not a top 30 player, maybe top 40).

[MrSashimiLover]

"Good-at-several-things" but "great-at-nothing" type of versatility has become overrated both with Draymond in a Top 35-75 sense and with LeBron in a Top 10 sense.

Pippen is also overrated this way (really not a top 30 player, maybe top 40).

It's true none of them are elite shooters or polished offensive players (I guess that's what you meant?). But very few players are capable of dominating a game as pure scorers. Since MJ's retirement, the only players who can dominate and WIN games as pure scorers without being elite two-way players/elite playmakers on a regular basis are Shaq, Dirk, KD, Kobe, Curry, and maybe T-Mac.

Even KG and TD's individual offense may not be enough if you take away their defense, and the other things they contribute on court.

[THKNKG]

Perhaps what is needed here is an introduction to Scottie Pippen, a player I didn't particularly like BTW, but hey:

10x All Defense (8 straight First Team)
7x All NBA (3/2/2)
6x NBA Champion
7x All Star

defensive stopper and triggerman on arguably the greatest dynasty in the NBA's last 50 years. Often considered the GOAT SF defender.

Scottie Pippen is who Draymond wants to be one day. So far Draymond's 27 years old, has 1 title, 2 All Stars, and possibly a 2nd All NBA of some sort coming.

Okay, so how does this affect their peaks? Give me something besides collected accolades to back your point.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Baski]

I voted Pippen, but this thread seems a decade too early. Stephen Curry is the best thing that ever happened to this guy

[HeartBreakKid]

I voted Pippen, but this thread seems a decade too early. Stephen Curry is the best thing that ever happened to this guy

Who was that guy Pippen played with again? The guy from Space Jam.

[mischievous]

I would say Pippen, Draymond's edge on d isn't that big imo, and Pippen was definitely better offensively.

[1993Playoffs]

Pip by far

[MrBigShot]

Draymond benefits heavily from the talent around him; Pip was just flat out a more talented player in a vacuum.