Around the NBA: Playoff Edition #2

[HomoSapien]

HS, I certainly see your point but it's not like MJ drafted Pip, HG, Rodman, Kukoc and such. Every star has had another star with few exceptions. MJ never won anything till Pip started playing at an all star and higher level.

I think it's unfair to hold that against Bron. He got no help in Clevland. He was never going to win a title with a Larry Hughes and old Big Z. And even when they had a budding player in Boozer, they bungled it.

I think it gets blown out of proportion because it was a tv show and so in your face with not 5, not 6 not 7 nonsense.

Sure, you definitely need the right supporting cast but there will always be a big level of cheapness attached to what James did. I think it always will add an asterisks to his Heat championships.

I mean do you put an astrick next to the Lakers rings? Shaq was an FA and Kobe refused to go anywhere else. That's just as cheap.

I don't see the problem if Bron does the work or if a GM does it. The only thing I don't like about it, is that the players have an unfair advantage. They can recruit years in advance.

I don't think the Shaq/Lakers thing is a good comparison. He left a better team to go to a worse one and Kobe was a rookie out of HS.

Barkley joining the Rockets is similar to what Bron did, but obviously didn't work.

[dice]

Michael's titles are his. He owns them. Lebron's first few titles are manufactured. It's hard to give him a ton of credit for getting bandwagon titles. Even less impressive that he's lost in the finals with such an amazing supporting cast.

pretty much. although the spurs were incredible in the finals in that last heatles season. then again, the credit lebron gets for winning it all in cleveland was due in large part to steph curry playing badly

And the Draymond suspension, which was a bigger factor in the series loss.

i don't think it was a bigger factor, though it contributed to changing the momentum of the series. they lost the game he was suspended by 15 at home, so there were larger issues at play. actually, that game was a microcosm of the series for curry and barnes. curry was mediocre and barnes couldn't hit the broadside of his surname

[R3AL1TY]

To me Old Man Bron had some of his biggest games before the Finals or couple games in the Finals, but it always was another player like Wade, Allen or Irving who were the closers in most close games.

[dice]

To me, Lebron's biggest hit on his legacy is still the 2011 finals.

I just can't imagine Jordan ever playing that bad in a series where he was the 4TH BEST player in the series.

So Lebron can never be the GOAT to me, because he froze in 2011.

I have him 2nd.

he was also bad in 3 straight losses to the celtics on his way out the door in cleveland

lebron has more talent than MJ, but MJ was more consistent in his excellence. the 6 finals MVPs are icing on the GOAT cake

[TheStig]

Sure, you definitely need the right supporting cast but there will always be a big level of cheapness attached to what James did. I think it always will add an asterisks to his Heat championships.

I mean do you put an astrick next to the Lakers rings? Shaq was an FA and Kobe refused to go anywhere else. That's just as cheap.

I don't see the problem if Bron does the work or if a GM does it. The only thing I don't like about it, is that the players have an unfair advantage. They can recruit years in advance.

I don't think the Shaq/Lakers thing is a good comparison. He left a better team to go to a worse one and Kobe was a rookie out of HS.

Barkley joining the Rockets is similar to what Bron did, but obviously didn't work.

I meant whatever team shaq went to would be the better team. He like, Bron, was the most dominant player in the league.

Big 3 in Boston was similar too. Just older guys.

I don't blame players for teaming up. Title is just as much about circumstance as "being elite". If Bron stayed in Clevland, they wouldn't have Love or Kyrie and he'd never win a wing. If Melo would have gone to the Spurs or Heat, he'd have a ring instead of being looked at as a loser. Can't blame a player for taking control of their legacy.

[kyrv]

I mean do you put an astrick next to the Lakers rings? Shaq was an FA and Kobe refused to go anywhere else. That's just as cheap.

I don't see the problem if Bron does the work or if a GM does it. The only thing I don't like about it, is that the players have an unfair advantage. They can recruit years in advance.

I don't think the Shaq/Lakers thing is a good comparison. He left a better team to go to a worse one and Kobe was a rookie out of HS.

Barkley joining the Rockets is similar to what Bron did, but obviously didn't work.

I meant whatever team shaq went to would be the better team. He like, Bron, was the most dominant player in the league.

Big 3 in Boston was similar too. Just older guys.

I don't blame players for teaming up. Title is just as much about circumstance as "being elite". If Bron stayed in Clevland, they wouldn't have Love or Kyrie and he'd never win a wing. If Melo would have gone to the Spurs or Heat, he'd have a ring instead of being looked at as a loser. Can't blame a player for taking control of their legacy.

I blame the superfriends for being dbags before, during, and after the team up.

Big 3 in Boston did not involve known illegal tampering.

[kingkirk]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

[TheStig]

I don't think the Shaq/Lakers thing is a good comparison. He left a better team to go to a worse one and Kobe was a rookie out of HS.

Barkley joining the Rockets is similar to what Bron did, but obviously didn't work.

I meant whatever team shaq went to would be the better team. He like, Bron, was the most dominant player in the league.

Big 3 in Boston was similar too. Just older guys.

I don't blame players for teaming up. Title is just as much about circumstance as "being elite". If Bron stayed in Clevland, they wouldn't have Love or Kyrie and he'd never win a wing. If Melo would have gone to the Spurs or Heat, he'd have a ring instead of being looked at as a loser. Can't blame a player for taking control of their legacy.

I blame the superfriends for being dbags before, during, and after the team up.

Big 3 in Boston did not involve known illegal tampering.

It's actually not illegal if its between players. They should change that rule. Not that they can enforce it.

I agree, if they were more humble, it would have been better. But between the decision and then procolomation of not 3, not 4, not 5, I do agree they were annoying. ESPN didn't help with their obsession.

[Devinpo]

Michael's titles are his. He owns them. Lebron's first few titles are manufactured. It's hard to give him a ton of credit for getting bandwagon titles. Even less impressive that he's lost in the finals with such an amazing supporting cast.

Definitely the truth... I understand lebron is great but cmon MJ played in a rough era with much better competition and denied them rings. Lebron is damn near a bum slayer when it comes to the eastern conference. Nick wright probably never watched MJ back in the day that's why he is so biased

[DuckIII]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

I basically agree with you. The only time this argument could approach legitimacy would be if it was a tie-breaker scenario. And even then it's pretty weak.

[fleet]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

Because we want the players to be old school. We want them to want to beat the other guy, not want to join him, which is less cool. These new age things break down divisions between teams, and we like divisions. Yes, things are new and different. Some remember a league that was less chummy and appreciated it. Thats for old men to worry about though.

[TheGOATRises007]

To me, Lebron's biggest hit on his legacy is still the 2011 finals.

I just can't imagine Jordan ever playing that bad in a series where he was the 4TH BEST player in the series.

So Lebron can never be the GOAT to me, because he froze in 2011.

I have him 2nd.

he was also bad in 3 straight losses to the celtics on his way out the door in cleveland

lebron has more talent than MJ, but MJ was more consistent in his excellence. the 6 finals MVPs are icing on the GOAT cake

True as well.

Lebron laid a massive egg in game 5 vs Boston in 2010. They got blown out badly, but it's often forgotten.

Lebron's just frozen in too many pivotal games for me to consider him the goat.

Yeah he does have more talent, but he doesn't apply it or maximize it like MJ did.

[TheGOATRises007]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

Pretty much.

I say the same for KD joining the Warriors.

If that happened for your team, you wouldn't give a crap.

So I don't know why people have a problem with it. I think most on here would have done the same thing.

[kingkirk]

Because we want the players to be old school. We want them to want to beat the other guy, not want to join him, which is less cool. These new age things break down divisions between teams, and we like divisions. Yes, things are new and different. Some remember a league that was less chummy and appreciated it. Thats for old men to worry about though.

I get and understand all of that. I would prefer that too, but I'm not going to lessen something just because it doesn't suit my preferences.

And again, if this is how you would prefer things to be, are you saying if LeBron, Wade and Bosh won multiple championships as Bulls, that it would have a more hollow feeling than otherwise?

I think we have to be bg enough as fans to ask ourselves, "would it make me mad if my team was doing it". If the answer is no, why be mad when others do it?

[kingkirk]

Pretty much.

I say the same for KD joining the Warriors.

If that happened for your team, you wouldn't give a crap.

So I don't know why people have a problem with it. I think most on here would have done the same thing.

Exactly. I don't understand how anyone could be mad at the Warriors for assembling the team they did or think it's any less of an achievement to win a squad with that title. Hell, I'd argue managing their cap in such a way that they enabled themselves to land Durant whilst having Curry, Green and Thompson is some of the best piece of GMing in league history.

I sure as **** would be praying to a Bob Myers shrine if I was a Warriors fan.

[RedBulls23]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

I don't put an asterisks next to lebron's titles, but at the same time it would be hypocritical to not count his loses against him to the point where people make excuses for him not have enough help(and a lot of his fans do that).

Imo, last years win catapolted Lebron to top 3 all time behind MJ and Jabar, but I can't see how anyone can really say he's surpassed MJ or even Jabar at this point.

[Butler4thewin]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

I don't put an asterisks next to lebron's titles, but at the same time it would be hypocritical to not count his loses against him to the point where people make excuses for him not have enough help(and a lot of his fans do that).

Imo, last years win catapolted Lebron to top 3 all time behind MJ and Jabar, but I can't see how anyone can really say he's surpassed MJ or even Jabar at this point.

I still think Kobe in his prime was at a level unreachable to bron and it's not even close Lebron mentally is weak and in the big moments he shrinks ..............I'll put it to you this way place the exact same talent level on each player team bryants team will win .....why? Because we all know the game will go to the wire and Kobe will eat him alive in those moments ........people forget how many rings Kobe has for some reason

[RedBulls23]

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[RastaBull]

Maybe this is reductionist ... and I really can't take "too much" away from LeBron's feats ... but I have an idiot friend that goes hard every time about LeBron be far better than Jordan.

My most recent zinger I thought was the best: if you make it to the NBA Finals and lose ... doesn't it just prove that you couldn't have made it you were in the other conference.

[DanTown8587]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

Weird that people complain about LBJ's Heat team and the fact the majority of fans were rooting against the almost entirely homegrown/low cost acquired Warriors going for 73.