Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen

[lorak]

No, but Green is not on Russell's or even Walton's level on defense or on the boards. Peak Russell and Walton had complete control over the game, in a way that Draymond hasn't even approached (and I doubt he ever will).

Last year Green was at level of KG according to DRAPM (and only Garnett was approaching that level regularly since we have data - Engelmann's NPI published after '15). This season he would probably be even better, so your statement is very doubtful. Especially if we add playmaking and spacing, what makes Green overall at least as valuable as Walton.

And BTW, do you think Walton was better at rim defender than Gobert?

How significant is Draymond spacing really? Teams have 0 respect for his shooting/scoring. He has so much open space with no defender near him.

It's difficult to separate his playmaking from spacing, but impact stats suggest, that he is ELITE offensive player since '15, so either his playmaking alone is so good or spacing is more valuable than you think. His floor-spacing is useful, even if he doesn’t take a ton of threes or make them with high %, because defenses have to account for him at all times, otherwise he will drain open threes. Green hits around 37 percent of his triples when he’s open, which isn’t mind-boggling but it is good enough to make teams pay for leaving him alone.

BTW, it's not like Draymond is the most open Warriors' star (% of open FGA, '17 RS):

Green 42.3% (24.1% wide open)
Curry 57.8% (20.1%)
Klay 50.1% (19.1%)
Durant 37.9% (10.9%)

[GeneralManager]

Slightly off topic: I always wonder about the quality control of these "judgment call" stats, what variation is there among the statisticians definition of "open" or "wide open."

There should not be blind allegiance to such definitional stats.

Same with "post-up" stats where the definition of "post-up" is laughable.

[Jiminy Glick]

Watch on YouTube

[East Bay Sports]

If I need a #1 option, Pippen (not that he's great in that role either)

Anything else: Draymond.

Draymond is THE glue guy. THE role player. The quintessential sidekick to a superstar.

[70sFan]

If I need a #1 option, Pippen (not that he's great in that role either)

Anything else: Draymond.

Draymond is THE glue guy. THE role player. The quintessential sidekick to a superstar.

Bulls won 6 rings with Pippen as a sidekick. They are both remarkably impactful in that role.

[Sakay]

pipen proved himself as an excellent 2nd option to jordan, and an awesome 1st option without jordan (but still not enough to win championships).

draymond is a great, a luxury, 3rd/4th option. an awesome glueguy.

give me pipen.

[PhillySixers22]

Not to take away from Green, who is obviously a better player than his box score stats indicate, but this is Pippen by a slight but clear margin. Offensively the only area I see an advantage for Dray is 3pt shooting, where it's not as though he's an elite shooter. Given the difference in era it's also reasonable to think if Pippen played today he could improve his 3 with the current focus on spacing. Defensively I agree that Green has the edge due to his impact on the interior that Scottie doesn't, but let's not forget until recently (Kawhi) Pippen was viewed as a GOAT perimeter defender candidate. Green's defensive versatility doesn't make up the significant offensive superiority on Pippens side. I'm firmly in the camp that believes impact stats overrate Draymond and on a lessor team/situation comparisons like this wouldn't be seen as it could go either way.

[KFL]

Pippen and it's not even close. Wow how people either forget or just don't know.

[East Bay Sports]

I think its weird seeing everyone give the playmaking nod to Pippen. Green is a better passer IMO

[East Bay Sports]

Pippen and it's not even close. Wow how people either forget or just don't know.

The poll is 40 to 9. Its not like Draymond is winning.

You can have a discussion without it being disrespectful to a guy. Pippen was great. So is Draymond. Comparing the two isn't blasphemous

[DROB27]

Last year Green was at level of KG according to DRAPM (and only Garnett was approaching that level regularly since we have data - Engelmann's NPI published after '15). This season he would probably be even better, so your statement is very doubtful. Especially if we add playmaking and spacing, what makes Green overall at least as valuable as Walton.

And BTW, do you think Walton was better at rim defender than Gobert?

How significant is Draymond spacing really? Teams have 0 respect for his shooting/scoring. He has so much open space with no defender near him.

It's difficult to separate his playmaking from spacing, but impact stats suggest, that he is ELITE offensive player since '15, so either his playmaking alone is so good or spacing is more valuable than you think. His floor-spacing is useful, even if he doesn’t take a ton of threes or make them with high %, because defenses have to account for him at all times, otherwise he will drain open threes. Green hits around 37 percent of his triples when he’s open, which isn’t mind-boggling but it is good enough to make teams pay for leaving him alone.

BTW, it's not like Draymond is the most open Warriors' star (% of open FGA, '17 RS):

Green 42.3% (24.1% wide open)
Curry 57.8% (20.1%)
Klay 50.1% (19.1%)
Durant 37.9% (10.9%)

Bro teams don't account for Draymond , in fact they leave him open on purpose

[East Bay Sports]

How significant is Draymond spacing really? Teams have 0 respect for his shooting/scoring. He has so much open space with no defender near him.

It's difficult to separate his playmaking from spacing, but impact stats suggest, that he is ELITE offensive player since '15, so either his playmaking alone is so good or spacing is more valuable than you think. His floor-spacing is useful, even if he doesn’t take a ton of threes or make them with high %, because defenses have to account for him at all times, otherwise he will drain open threes. Green hits around 37 percent of his triples when he’s open, which isn’t mind-boggling but it is good enough to make teams pay for leaving him alone.

BTW, it's not like Draymond is the most open Warriors' star (% of open FGA, '17 RS):

Green 42.3% (24.1% wide open)
Curry 57.8% (20.1%)
Klay 50.1% (19.1%)
Durant 37.9% (10.9%)

Bro teams don't account for Draymond , in fact they leave him open on purpose

Doesn't make it a good idea. Draymond is 21/41 from 3 this postseason

[Triples333]

Well Draymond is playing with 2 All Time Greats/MVP's in their peak and he looks like the most dominant overall player for the team lately. I'd put his current level against anything we ever saw from Pippen. We can argue that Pippen would be better as a #1, but that's somewhat irrelevant as their legacies are that of a role player.


The career accolade stats are meaningless. This is not a discussion discussing their placement on the All Time list (Draymond has a long time to catch up there), but rather prime level of play. And in that regard, I never personally saw Pippen do more on the floor than what Draymond does right now. I'm willing to bet RAPM would back Green as well.

It's close, but give me this Green over every version of Pippen (and a ton of other legends who the mention of Green over them will make people's skin crawl). If he was a quiet player that did not irritate opposing fan bases, this discussion would be taken FAR more seriously, I can guarantee that.

[homecourtloss]

pipen proved himself as an excellent 2nd option to jordan, and an awesome 1st option without jordan (but still not enough to win championships).

draymond is a great, a luxury, 3rd/4th option. an awesome glueguy.

give me pipen.

I think he could very well have won a title as long as he had someone just a bit better than Pete Myers. The Bulls were 51-21 with him, a 58 win pace. Replace Myers with Ron Harper and replace rookie Kukoc with '96 Kufic and I think that team is a 60+ win team if Pippen plays at least 76-77 games and is the title favorites.

[Winsome Gerbil]

It's difficult to separate his playmaking from spacing, but impact stats suggest, that he is ELITE offensive player since '15, so either his playmaking alone is so good or spacing is more valuable than you think. His floor-spacing is useful, even if he doesn’t take a ton of threes or make them with high %, because defenses have to account for him at all times, otherwise he will drain open threes. Green hits around 37 percent of his triples when he’s open, which isn’t mind-boggling but it is good enough to make teams pay for leaving him alone.

BTW, it's not like Draymond is the most open Warriors' star (% of open FGA, '17 RS):

Green 42.3% (24.1% wide open)
Curry 57.8% (20.1%)
Klay 50.1% (19.1%)
Durant 37.9% (10.9%)

Bro teams don't account for Draymond , in fact they leave him open on purpose

Doesn't make it a good idea. Draymond is 21/41 from 3 this postseason

Well that's pretty clearly a major aberration and could end any game now.

He shot .308 from 3 during 76 games of the regular season, getting the same shots. And in 397 games he's a .334 career shooter from out there without ever being more than an afterthought for a defense trying to chase around Steph, Klay, and now KD.

[Brooklyn_34]

Look, I HATED Pippen back in the 90s (NY Knicks fan--his attitude, dunks on Ewing, etc), so I am NOT a Pippen fanboy.

To even compare them is an insult....Pippen was a far superior player overall.

Green is good, but I agree with many in this thread that it's getting out of hand.

[Baski]

I voted Pippen, but this thread seems a decade too early. Stephen Curry is the best thing that ever happened to this guy

Who was that guy Pippen played with again? The guy from Space Jam.

Fair enough. I'd have said the same thing about Pippen if not for his 94 season in which he lead his team without the space jam guy to a 2nd round loss. As much as people want to downplay the importance of leading your team as the best player in order to elevate Draymond above his level(IMO), at some point it will come up in these peak comparisons, and alltime as well. I am very confident that Draymond will get his chance to lead a team someday. I mean he's so good, he can't be content playing 3rd/4th fiddle throughout his prime. When that time comes he'll hopefully show his true worth as a star

[_Game7_]

This thread is an insult to the great Pippen.

[_Game7_]

Soon we will see Draymond vs Lebron I recon.

[Baski]

Soon we will see Draymond vs Lebron I recon.

And it won't be a troll thread like that Draymond vs Shaq one