Around the NBA: Playoff Edition #2

[johnnyvann840]

Random thought: What happened to "No easy layups in the playoffs, make em earn it on the line" unwritten rule? Coaches used to preach it all the time before but now i rarely see it.

Random also, with all of the advanced metrics, not sure they have figured out yet the high value of not fouling.

If a team is already in the bonus, sure, foul the layup. But two or three layup fouls early in the quarter are most likely going to cost you points (if not foul trouble).

Good point. Although knocking someone on their ass the first time they try to waltz through the lane and to the rim goes a long way towards making them think about it for the rest of the game.

[HomoSapien]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

For me, the most important thing about sports --- especially as a fan --- is competition. What I saw James do (and now Durant) is circumvent that competition. Of course those rings still "count" but if we're having a debate about greatness, then circumventing competition is a part of that discussion and I think it does dock points away from James when you're talking about who is the greatest player ever.

And to you question, I absolutely would have docked those same points if they joined the Bulls. I mean, obviously I would love it had they come here, but I'm an NBA fan first and super teams are bad for the NBA. The healthiest version of the NBA would have been prime James against prime Wade against prime Bosh against prime Rose. Just like the NBA currently would be stronger if Durant and Westbrook were facing off against Curry and Thompson.

[MC3]

Random thought: What happened to "No easy layups in the playoffs, make em earn it on the line" unwritten rule? Coaches used to preach it all the time before but now i rarely see it.

Random also, with all of the advanced metrics, not sure they have figured out yet the high value of not fouling.

If a team is already in the bonus, sure, foul the layup. But two or three layup fouls early in the quarter are most likely going to cost you points (if not foul trouble).

Good point. Although knocking someone on their ass the first time they try to waltz through the lane and to the rim goes a long way towards making them think about it for the rest of the game.

League changed so much I dont recognize it anymore. It's like watching different sport but playing with same ball.

[HomoSapien]

I mean do you put an astrick next to the Lakers rings? Shaq was an FA and Kobe refused to go anywhere else. That's just as cheap.

I don't see the problem if Bron does the work or if a GM does it. The only thing I don't like about it, is that the players have an unfair advantage. They can recruit years in advance.

I don't think the Shaq/Lakers thing is a good comparison. He left a better team to go to a worse one and Kobe was a rookie out of HS.

Barkley joining the Rockets is similar to what Bron did, but obviously didn't work.

I meant whatever team shaq went to would be the better team. He like, Bron, was the most dominant player in the league.

Big 3 in Boston was similar too. Just older guys.

I don't blame players for teaming up. Title is just as much about circumstance as "being elite". If Bron stayed in Clevland, they wouldn't have Love or Kyrie and he'd never win a wing. If Melo would have gone to the Spurs or Heat, he'd have a ring instead of being looked at as a loser. Can't blame a player for taking control of their legacy.

My issue definitely isn't players changing teams. Look, this is their career and like any career they should have the choice to move to any city they want. My issue is as a sports fan, what James did cheapens the value of competition. I think James at the time said that his goal was to win a championship and at the end of the day he didn't care how he got it. Well, he got those rings and no one can take them away from him, but when we're comparing James to Jordan that is a nuance that should be part of the discussion.

And you're right, Shaq joining any team makes them better but what James did would be similar to Shaq joining Jordan and Pippen. Yeah, it'd be great as a Bulls fan but it's not so great as an NBA fan.

[HomoSapien]

Random also, with all of the advanced metrics, not sure they have figured out yet the high value of not fouling.

If a team is already in the bonus, sure, foul the layup. But two or three layup fouls early in the quarter are most likely going to cost you points (if not foul trouble).

Good point. Although knocking someone on their ass the first time they try to waltz through the lane and to the rim goes a long way towards making them think about it for the rest of the game.

League changed so much I dont recognize it anymore. It's like watching different sport but playing with same ball.

Agreed. I sure miss watching playoff defense. It was fun when a few teams like the Suns would just launch threes, but when everyone is the league is doing it it gets boring.

[HomoSapien]

A championship is a championship. You still have to win the damn things. And as we've seen, even when you put together a great team, it can still go wrong.

It's just weird to me that if Wade, LeBron and Bosh all happened to be drafted together, people would have no problem with it, but because it was manufactured, it has an asterisks. That logic seems a little antiquated to me.

Also, for those saying the Heat championships have an asterisk against them, had LeBron, Wade and Bosh formed their dynasty here, would you be reducing those championships and marking them as lesser achievements?

Spoiler: If you yes, I won't believe you.

Weird that people complain about LBJ's Heat team and the fact the majority of fans were rooting against the almost entirely homegrown/low cost acquired Warriors going for 73.

Wow, Dan.

You're sure missing a big key point.

Why on earth would any Bulls fan root for the Warriors to beat our record?

[TheStig]

I don't think the Shaq/Lakers thing is a good comparison. He left a better team to go to a worse one and Kobe was a rookie out of HS.

Barkley joining the Rockets is similar to what Bron did, but obviously didn't work.

I meant whatever team shaq went to would be the better team. He like, Bron, was the most dominant player in the league.

Big 3 in Boston was similar too. Just older guys.

I don't blame players for teaming up. Title is just as much about circumstance as "being elite". If Bron stayed in Clevland, they wouldn't have Love or Kyrie and he'd never win a wing. If Melo would have gone to the Spurs or Heat, he'd have a ring instead of being looked at as a loser. Can't blame a player for taking control of their legacy.

My issue definitely isn't players changing teams. Look, this is their career and like any career they should have the choice to move to any city they want. My issue is as a sports fan, what James did cheapens the value of competition. I think James at the time said that his goal was to win a championship and at the end of the day he didn't care how he got it. Well, he got those rings and no one can take them away from him, but when we're comparing James to Jordan that is a nuance that should be part of the discussion.

And you're right, Shaq joining any team makes them better but what James did would be similar to Shaq joining Jordan and Pippen. Yeah, it'd be great as a Bulls fan but it's not so great as an NBA fan.

I mean that's not Bron or Shaq or anyones fault. It's the system. If you want a competitive balance you need to get rid of the max and have a hard cap. Is Bron turning down 50+million a year to win with the Heat at 20? I don't think so. But if you're talking 20 to 25 mill, it's not that much. Particularly going from a tax to non tax state.

Can you blame Bron? The most the cavs could pay him was hardly more per year. Guys like JJ made more than him.

[TheStig]

Riley tampered illegally with Lebron.

Why would he need to tamper? These guys had the idea for years and Wade was making it happen.

I don't know if he needed to. He did. Woj documented it. Nobody has bothered to pretend it didn't happen.

If there was any proof, I'm sure the league would have investigated.

[dice]

Pretty much.

I say the same for KD joining the Warriors.

If that happened for your team, you wouldn't give a crap.

So I don't know why people have a problem with it. I think most on here would have done the same thing.

Exactly. I don't understand how anyone could be mad at the Warriors for assembling the team they did or think it's any less of an achievement to win a squad with that title. Hell, I'd argue managing their cap in such a way that they enabled themselves to land Durant whilst having Curry, Green and Thompson is some of the best piece of GMing in league history.

I sure as **** would be praying to a Bob Myers shrine if I was a Warriors fan.

1) i'm sure they're out there, but i've never heard anyone say they were mad at the WARRIORS for signing durant. any team would sign kevin durant. the anti-competitive decision by durant has been criticized. and rightfully so

2) the heatles scenario was worse. it was a result of advanced player collusion. again, nothing riley or the organization should be criticized for. or even wade or bosh (though i myself wouldn't be recruiting players as a star player)

3) the warriors didn't do anything special cap-wise. they already had curry on a ridiculously tiny contract AND the cap made a big jump just as durant was entering free agency. i sincerely doubt that there was any advanced planning. nobody even expected durant to leave OKC, let alone climb aboard a pending dynasty (which he might not have even done had the warriors won the title, which everyone expected would happen)

4) in my opinion it is most definitely less of a resume builder to snap your fingers and surround yourself with other superstars in a craven ploy for hardware. then again, i think that titles are vastly overrated when it comes to ranking players in the pantheon

[dice]

Why would he need to tamper? These guys had the idea for years and Wade was making it happen.

I don't know if he needed to. He did. Woj documented it. Nobody has bothered to pretend it didn't happen.

If there was any proof, I'm sure the league would have investigated.

not sure why there's even a tampering rule. just let anyone talk to whoever they want, whenever they want

[dice]

If you want a competitive balance you need to get rid of the max and have a hard cap

and non-guaranteed contracts

but please god no. having a luxury tax is bad enough. don't turn the nba into the nfl. a league where excellence is diluted, where a lot of teams have hope but few have excitement, is not appealing to me. when a league wants all of its teams to be between 30 and 50 wins...that is a terrible product

[TheStig]

I don't know if he needed to. He did. Woj documented it. Nobody has bothered to pretend it didn't happen.

If there was any proof, I'm sure the league would have investigated.

not sure why there's even a tampering rule. just let anyone talk to whoever they want, whenever they want

Because they're under contract to another team? Would you want other teams pestering your star players for a new deal or trade?

[dice]

If there was any proof, I'm sure the league would have investigated.

not sure why there's even a tampering rule. just let anyone talk to whoever they want, whenever they want

Because they're under contract to another team? Would you want other teams pestering your star players for a new deal or trade?

i wouldn't WANT my player to be fielding offers. but that's how the real world operates. why should it be any different with pro sports? why take away freedoms like that? and it's not even "pestering." if the player did not want the distraction he would have all business go through his agent. either way, there's no reason his current employer needs to know it is happening

[HomoSapien]

I meant whatever team shaq went to would be the better team. He like, Bron, was the most dominant player in the league.

Big 3 in Boston was similar too. Just older guys.

I don't blame players for teaming up. Title is just as much about circumstance as "being elite". If Bron stayed in Clevland, they wouldn't have Love or Kyrie and he'd never win a wing. If Melo would have gone to the Spurs or Heat, he'd have a ring instead of being looked at as a loser. Can't blame a player for taking control of their legacy.

My issue definitely isn't players changing teams. Look, this is their career and like any career they should have the choice to move to any city they want. My issue is as a sports fan, what James did cheapens the value of competition. I think James at the time said that his goal was to win a championship and at the end of the day he didn't care how he got it. Well, he got those rings and no one can take them away from him, but when we're comparing James to Jordan that is a nuance that should be part of the discussion.

And you're right, Shaq joining any team makes them better but what James did would be similar to Shaq joining Jordan and Pippen. Yeah, it'd be great as a Bulls fan but it's not so great as an NBA fan.

I mean that's not Bron or Shaq or anyones fault. It's the system. If you want a competitive balance you need to get rid of the max and have a hard cap. Is Bron turning down 50+million a year to win with the Heat at 20? I don't think so. But if you're talking 20 to 25 mill, it's not that much. Particularly going from a tax to non tax state.

Can you blame Bron? The most the cavs could pay him was hardly more per year. Guys like JJ made more than him.

Again, it's not about blame but it's part of the discussion when debating about who is the greatest.

[johnnyvann840]

Random also, with all of the advanced metrics, not sure they have figured out yet the high value of not fouling.

If a team is already in the bonus, sure, foul the layup. But two or three layup fouls early in the quarter are most likely going to cost you points (if not foul trouble).

Good point. Although knocking someone on their ass the first time they try to waltz through the lane and to the rim goes a long way towards making them think about it for the rest of the game.

League changed so much I dont recognize it anymore. It's like watching different sport but playing with same ball.

Well, the Spurs are giving us a dose of it right now. So far they've knocked Thompson and Curry to the ground hard and Durant was hammered too. Pop knows when to go old school. He knows Steph can KD don't like it when guys play them physical. Throws them off their games.

[pduh01]

The Spurs are destroying the Warriors so far, and they playing physical defense against the Warriors that is what they need to do to have a chance to win the series against the Warriors can they keep it up is the question.

[TheStig]

My issue definitely isn't players changing teams. Look, this is their career and like any career they should have the choice to move to any city they want. My issue is as a sports fan, what James did cheapens the value of competition. I think James at the time said that his goal was to win a championship and at the end of the day he didn't care how he got it. Well, he got those rings and no one can take them away from him, but when we're comparing James to Jordan that is a nuance that should be part of the discussion.

And you're right, Shaq joining any team makes them better but what James did would be similar to Shaq joining Jordan and Pippen. Yeah, it'd be great as a Bulls fan but it's not so great as an NBA fan.

I mean that's not Bron or Shaq or anyones fault. It's the system. If you want a competitive balance you need to get rid of the max and have a hard cap. Is Bron turning down 50+million a year to win with the Heat at 20? I don't think so. But if you're talking 20 to 25 mill, it's not that much. Particularly going from a tax to non tax state.

Can you blame Bron? The most the cavs could pay him was hardly more per year. Guys like JJ made more than him.

Again, it's not about blame but it's part of the discussion when debating about who is the greatest.

I mean it's just the era. MJ's era didn't do that. It certainly is something to consider if you see some guys start to have gaudy title counts.

That being said, I think you'll start to have multiple guys do it.

[Repeat 3-peat]

I still believe GS wins this series, but lets say they don't.

What does this say about KD? Has to hurt his legacy, joining a 73 win team, and not even make the finals...

[Axxo]

The Spurs are destroying the Warriors so far, and they playing physical defense against the Warriors that is what they need to do to have a chance to win the series against the Warriors can they keep it up is the question.

I'm sure I see the Cavs beating either one of these teams in the finals.
Edit: should read "Not Sure"

[Payt10]

Hate GS so much. They're going to get a win because Pachulia sticks his foot out to injure leonard.


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