Around the NBA: Playoff Edition #2

[Dan Z]

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/05/14/zaza-pachulia-dirty-play-kawhi-leonard-ankle-injury-video#

[kingkirk]

For me, the most important thing about sports --- especially as a fan --- is competition. What I saw James do (and now Durant) is circumvent that competition. Of course those rings still "count" but if we're having a debate about greatness, then circumventing competition is a part of that discussion and I think it does dock points away from James when you're talking about who is the greatest player ever.

By saying 'circumventing competition', you're implying they did something wrong or illegal. They didn't. They left as free agents. They have that right, just as anyone does. They didn't demand trades. They did everything they could to win titles on their own. It didn't happen.

If LeBron, Wade and Bosh were all drafted by the same team, you wouldn't debating LeBron's greatness. But because he left, we are. That's weird.

And to you question, I absolutely would have docked those same points if they joined the Bulls. I mean, obviously I would love it had they come here, but I'm an NBA fan first and super teams are bad for the NBA. The healthiest version of the NBA would have been prime James against prime Wade against prime Bosh against prime Rose. Just like the NBA currently would be stronger if Durant and Westbrook were facing off against Curry and Thompson.

Yes, I agree with you. It would be better if stars were more dispersed across teams rather than flooding to one or two teams. But that's on the system, not the player.

Why would you detract from a player's legacy because they happen to play in a system that allows them to move?

In order for LeBron to not leave, the Cavs had to draft or trade for his stars. They never did, so he left. You're going to hold it against him for his team not being able to build around him? Why is that LeBron's fault? He can't control that.

And I find a level of hypocrisy to this answer. If LeBron never leaves Cleveland, he never wins a title. Those killing him for leaving would probably be the same ones killing him for never winning a ring.

[kingkirk]

We can use common sense with Kareem. He's there. Even as a old man he was lethal I'm the 80s.

Why do people say that we can't blame LeBron for playing with Wade and Bosh but then say things like "Did you see the help Magic and Bird had?" I've never understood that. My issue with LeBron was that the best player WENT to join up with players rather than have players COME to him.

But why does that matter? If players came to play with him to form a superteam, you'd be fine with it, but because he left a team that couldn't get those players, his efforts are diminished?

If the Cavs had found LeBron his KAJ and Worthy or McCale and Parish, he never leaves Cleveland.

The result is the same: LeBron won a title playing next to great players. Jordan won titles playing next to great players. Magic won titles playing next to great players.

If your problem with it is the process, then I call bull, because this board wouldn't be having this conversation right now if James, Wade and Bosh came here and won titles.

[kingkirk]

Wow, Dan.

You're sure missing a big key point.

Why on earth would any Bulls fan root for the Warriors to beat our record?

I'm a Bulls fan. I wanted to see the Warriors break the Bulls' record. I wanted to see history.

[DuckIII]

Wow, Dan.

You're sure missing a big key point.

Why on earth would any Bulls fan root for the Warriors to beat our record?

I'm a Bulls fan. I wanted to see the Warriors break the Bulls' record. I wanted to see history.

Well I don't know about affirmatively wanting it to happen. That's weird. But then again I also think it's weird that people didn't want it to happen.

It's meaningless. The Bulls accomplishments, and MJ's accomplishments since that is a hot topic now, stand on their own merit. Nothing anyone accomplishes minimizes them. Nothing anyone fails to accomplish amplifies them.

[kingkirk]

Well I don't know about affirmatively wanting it to happen. That's weird. But then again I also think it's weird that people didn't want it to happen.

It's meaningless. The Bulls accomplishments, and MJ's accomplishments since that is a hot topic now, stand on their own merit. Nothing anyone accomplishes minimizes them. Nothing anyone fails to accomplish amplifies them.

Yeah, I wouldn't say I was actively rooting for it to happen, but I had no problem at all in seeing it happen, particularly as it was Kerr, a former Bull, coaching the team to do it.

But with their chance to do so, I was sitting there hoping they would lose out and not making it to 73. When they had won 72 and had a chance at 73, I wanted to see it happen.

[Payt10]

Spurs should be up 1-0. GS gifted a win after intentionally injuring Kawhi


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[MC3]

I hope Curry has ACL and Durant has achilles injury. THat's my mission this offseason.

[suckfish]

Spurs should be up 1-0. GS gifted a win after intentionally injuring Kawhi


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That's just pathetic.

[pduh01]

I hope Curry has ACL and Durant has achilles injury. THat's my mission this offseason.

Wishing anyone injury is not cool at all, it's one thing to hate a player/not a fan which is fine but wishing an injury is a whole new level, and that's low. It show the kind of character you really are.

[hellenicbull]

I'm so sick of the Warriors always somehow getting a damn rebound to turn the game. If the Spurs freaking get that rebound they probably win this game. Leonard out pretty much sealed this loss and the series.

[dumbell78]

Missed the Kawhi injury live, was it straight up blatant by that POS Zaza?

[pduh01]

Missed the Kawhi injury live, was it straight up blatant by that POS Zaza?

[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube

From watching it slow motion pretty much yeah that was intentional if you look at Zaza foot he slide it more further on purpose he knows that Kawhi hurt his ankle that same ankle from the last series, and it isn't necessary for him to slide his foot further that already have.

I hate dirty players.

[Leslie Forman]

Zaza is clearly a dirty sack of crap but the Spurs had Bruce Bowen playing even dirtier than that for years so I have little sympathy for that franchise.

[kyrv]

Why would he need to tamper? These guys had the idea for years and Wade was making it happen.

I don't know if he needed to. He did. Woj documented it. Nobody has bothered to pretend it didn't happen.

If there was any proof, I'm sure the league would have investigated.

Stig - have you met the NBA?

Riley had dinner with Lebron to help Wade recruit him. Cavs knew about it, said nothing. It was after that dinner that Lebron stated nobody should wear #23. I asked at the time, why suddenly now on this day...now we know why.

[jc23]

Its like the nba gods want me to hate basketball. The last few years have been rough.

[TheStig]

I don't know if he needed to. He did. Woj documented it. Nobody has bothered to pretend it didn't happen.

If there was any proof, I'm sure the league would have investigated.

Stig - have you met the NBA?

Riley had dinner with Lebron to help Wade recruit him. Cavs knew about it, said nothing. It was after that dinner that Lebron stated nobody should wear #23. I asked at the time, why suddenly now on this day...now we know why.

I must have missed that. I've never heard about that dinner.

[Butler4thewin]

olynk and zaza should both be banned permanently from the league they definitely need to review game tape after games and remove players lik that permanently also jr smith for that ko punch he snuck in on a unsuspecting opponent that could have ended his life ......it's a matter of safety of the players who are employees being ignored and it's ruining the game

[MC3]

I hope Curry has ACL and Durant has achilles injury. THat's my mission this offseason.

Wishing anyone injury is not cool at all, it's one thing to hate a player/not a fan which is fine but wishing an injury is a whole new level, and that's low. It show the kind of character you really are.

Human race is disgusting my friend. I can blame and make excuses, but I been this way (character wise) pretty much since Derrick's ACL. That's happens when someone take your happiness and makes your world dark.

[MAQ]

For me, the most important thing about sports --- especially as a fan --- is competition. What I saw James do (and now Durant) is circumvent that competition. Of course those rings still "count" but if we're having a debate about greatness, then circumventing competition is a part of that discussion and I think it does dock points away from James when you're talking about who is the greatest player ever.

By saying 'circumventing competition', you're implying they did something wrong or illegal. They didn't. They left as free agents. They have that right, just as anyone does. They didn't demand trades. They did everything they could to win titles on their own. It didn't happen.

If LeBron, Wade and Bosh were all drafted by the same team, you wouldn't debating LeBron's greatness. But because he left, we are. That's weird.

I've read the thread in passing and I believe this series of posts are related to your opinion of LBJ possibly having an equal or better career than MJ. I wanted to make sure that was correct as I actually agree with you somewhat. I don't think LBJ was a better player, but his career is most likely going to be the greater of the 2 careers between the two players when you factor in the amount of success and the longevity.

That said I completely agree with HS and I find it disingenuous for you to say that he's implying these guys did something illegal by circumventing the competition. He's not implying that at all. He's implying that these guys took a shortcut to their titles. Leaving in your prime to team up with other guys in their prime and top of their positions is absolutely a short cut. Nothing illegal about it, but it does feel as though it taints their "success" in comparison to the way that other superstars have earned it.

And I understand that winning a title requires really good talent and that LBJ had ever right to do what he did. But that doesn't make the title any less tainted IMO. It absolutely would have felt different all of those guys were drafted to the same team. And yes, the title would seem just as manufactured if it was earned in a Bulls uniform. It would have been enjoyable. But still manufactured.