Around the NBA: Playoff Edition #2

[RedBulls23]

I understand your point, but I would be shocked if this board and the members of it would be sitting here today discussing LeBron’s cheapened legacy because he came here to win titles (instead of Miami).

I certainly think people would in an argument of if he's as good or better than MJ.

[BR0D1E86]

I haven't watched any of the playoffs since the first round. I flipped on tonight's game and nothing has changed for the celtics. Illegal screens and just embarrassing flopping by Thomas getting awful calls.


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[Axxo]

Celtics fans on their forum chanting MVP for A. Bradley b/c he hit a 3 pt shot....too funny

[kingkirk]

I certainly think people would in an argument of if he's as good or better than MJ.

I'm sorry, but I call bull here.

In comparing the two, it would be mentioned that LeBron never did as much as Jordan, already losing in 2007 and possibly a few more times had he joined the Bulls, not Heat.

I don't think the members of this board would be tarnishing LeBron's legacy by saying his titles in Chicago, their team, are cheapened because he left Cleveland to come to Chicago.

No chance at all that happens.

[othawhitemeat]

Mostly disagree with you and slightly agree with you a little. I get what you are saying, but I mostly agree with Homosapien. I'm not going to jump on the Magic train because he was loaded with talent, but he won a chip as a rookie without their best player in Kareem. I don't blame Lebron for leaving, but the team he joined, I do blame him for. I mean he went to a team with other superstars that were both top 10 and in Wade, top 4ish. In addition, he went there because Lebron was not ready to lead them to a chip. In addition, he totally choked out in the 11' finals, and the one they beat the Spurs, he was not even that great. Last year, he was great in everything but scoring at the end, but was bailed out by refs and Kyrie. I also feel like last years Warriors are slightly overrated despite winning 73 games. They almost lost to the Thunder last year btw. This year, the only competition they have, they are getting smoked in the first game until they purposely injure Kawhi. Do I think the Warriors beat the Spurs irregardless? Yes, because of the talent, but I think it would have went 7, at least 6 with a Spurs team that is not nearly as good as the one that beat the Heat. Now saying that, Lebron was impressive last year (about the first time I felt outside of not scoring in the clutch, he was the most clutch).

I think his legacy can be questioned for joining the Heat. While he did not assemble the first Cavs team, he was the one demanding Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, etc... He was demanding trading for Jamison and other players. He was also not mature enough to lead them to a real chip despite taking them to the Finals against the Spurs.

I think an underrated star that stuck with mediocre talent would be Hakeem Olujawon and those Rockets teams. Those two years, he had some of the most dominant seasons and yet, nobody ever talks about him.

I'm also sick of hearing of hearing how the Bulls never almost beat a team as good as last year's Warriors.... Maybe not the first time go around, but the second 3 peat, I feel like the Sonics and Jazz would have given this Warriors team a run for its money. I feel like the Warriors are also a by product of a soft NBA. Yes, they are loaded, but they are also super soft. I mean they were getting smoked yesterday by Kawhi and great coaching. The Jazz with Karl Malone, Hornacek, Stockton, Russell, etc... That was a very tough team. I know Draymond gets reference for his defense, but no way is he containing Karl Malone. Stockton/Hornacek are tough players too and did not fold in the playoffs.

Lebron is a great player, but I feel in a different era would not be nearly as good, despite the athletic advantages. I mean heck, when the Spurs won, Kawhi outplayed him. Dirk/Wade outplayed him in that playoff series too. I can't imagine Larry, Magic in their prime getting outplayed like that. His regular season along with last year is the only reason he is top 4 right now. He could have been the best, but he did cheapen his legacy by joining the Heat. I think if he would have joined some team that year like the Bulls/Clippers or such and still been by far the best player while joining young talent while still cheapens, at least he would have been leading them and not relying on Wade and such to lead them to chips.

There is a lot of text here, of which I disagree with most of it (which is fine).

But these things really stood out to me:

Last year, he was great in everything but scoring at the end, but was bailed out by refs and Kyrie.

You’re essentially discrediting LeBron’s 2016 Finals performance, or at least reducing it, because Kyrie made a huge shot. That’s ridicoulously unfair. Are you going to ignore that incredible block? That’s an iconic play in basketball history.

Just so it’s clear, these were LeBron’s numbers in the Finals: 29.7 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 8.9 APG, 2.6 SPG, 2.3 BPG, 49.4 FG%, 37.1 3P%

Those are insane numbers. Down 3-1, here is LeBron’s line: 36.3 PPG, 12 RPG, 9.7 APG, 3 SPG, 3 BPG, 50.6 FG%, 42.1 3P%

There is no credible argument at all to say that LeBron was bailed out by Kyrie and the refs in the Finals last season. It’s factually incorrect.

I mean heck, when the Spurs won, Kawhi outplayed him

No, Kawhi didn’t out play LeBron in the Finals

Kawhi: 17.8 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 2 APG, 1.6 SPG, 1.2 BPG
LeBron: 28.2 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 4 APG, 2 SPG, 0.4 BPG

Kawhi was incredible in that series because his defense was great and he shot over 50 percent from 3. He won MVP because he was on the winning team. LeBron was still the best and most influential player in the series, just as he was in the 2015 Finals when Andre Iguadala won Finals MVP.

I think if he would have joined some team that year like the Bulls/Clippers or such and still been by far the best player while joining young talent while still cheapens, at least he would have been leading them and not relying on Wade and such to lead them to chips.

I had to laugh here. If he joins the Bulls in 2010, it would’ve been less cheap and more acceptable for people, says the RealGM Bulls board. Irony!

I understand your point, but I would be shocked if this board and the members of it would be sitting here today discussing LeBron’s cheapened legacy because he came here to win titles (instead of Miami).

As stupid as it sounds, I don't know if I really wanted some cheapened championship with Lebron joining us. If we had real good gm's, we would have found some way to get real help instead of stinking Bogans, Brewer, and Korver. Korver or Brewer fine, but not all 3. I could have handled Bosh, but not Lebron. I am a bigger basketball fan than a Bulls fan. I know many will disagree, but while it would have been fun to watch chips, it would have felt dirt cheap and not real.

Lebron while doing fine really, his team was getting smoked in that Spurs final. Do I think Kawhi at that time would out-duel Lebron and while most of it was the team concept the Spurs/Pop had, Kawhi and them really took him out of his element despite great numbers. There was no cohesion on that Heat team that Finals, but Lebron in a way should shoulder some of that blame.

Now Lebron is an all-time great, but I feel his greatness is greatly over-exagerrated. In fact, I credit his marketing for making him looking better than he is. Picks a weak Eastern Conference to play in as soon as he is a FA. Comes back to a younger Cavs team with some talent. I will give him credit last year's finals and I probably undersold his abilities last Finals. However, and a big however, in Game 7, when game was on the line, he missed like 5 shots in a row down the stretch. He had an incredible block at the end, but really, both teams choked down the stretch and Kyrie just happened to make a big shot. Which illustrates my point. The Warriors are talked about some great all-time team last year. However, Klay is a good shooter, but not some top 15 player good. Maybe fringe top 20 that can get hot at some point. Curry as much as I love him can shrink when pressured and played with physical defense. Draymond is a great glue player that can do many things, but is not someone that can regularly score; although not some liability. So they get the ultra-talented Durant who is another semi-soft player. The 96 Sonics with the Glove on Curry, Hawkins on Thompson, and Kemp would have given either one of these teams a run and I feel would have won. The 97/98 Jazz would have beat the Cavs/Warriors once in my opinion. Heck the 14 Spurs would have beat both of these teams.

I"m saying Lebron is the most talented all-around player to ever play and regular season and 3 quarters, is one of the greatest players of all-time. However, Ray Allen and Kyrie hit the big shots to help him look great at the end. He had a great block, but at t the end of games, he still passes the ball the majority of times to a big shot player. Yes, we had the Paxson/Kerr shots with Jordan, but Jordan over and over again hit big shots. Same with Larry Bird, etc... I mean can you imagine a prime Larry Bird in this era? He would be the modern Stretch 4, that would be the best player of the game despite the NBA athleticism.

Let's look at the stats in general across the NBA this year for individuals. Look at the Triple Double Westbrook, Jimmy's numbers, Harden's near triple double average, Isaiah Thomas number's.... If you put Isaiah Thomas and Larry Bird on the same team, who is the scoring leader? Would the Celts be the favorites? I mean Bird's rebounding numbers would have been better. Imagine Larry Legend against Lebron in the clutch. I mean the Dirk Mavs schooled the 11 Heat... While as great at Dirk is, I would say Larry would take him to lunch playing against him. Larry Bird again Kevin Love? Easy to see who is winning that. Larry Legend would make Lebron cry talking trash.

So yes, I take him jumping ship to be watered down. I can't remember how many big shots Lebron has made. I think both in a watered down NBA make me think while he is an all-time great, he is not even top 3 in my opinion. I mean is KD the second best tied with Kawhi in todays game. Can you imagine Westbrook/Harden being the, He top 5 player in the 90's? Also, this Warriors team to me is not any better than the 02 Kings that got jobbed from winning one. Would you take Curry, Thompson, KD, Green over Vlade, Webber, Stojakivic, Bibby, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Hedo, Scot Pollard? Small-ball, sure put Bibby, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Stoj, Webber....

[othawhitemeat]

I certainly think people would in an argument of if he's as good or better than MJ.

I'm sorry, but I call bull here.

In comparing the two, it would be mentioned that LeBron never did as much as Jordan, already losing in 2007 and possibly a few more times had he joined the Bulls, not Heat.

I don't think the members of this board would be tarnishing LeBron's legacy by saying his titles in Chicago, their team, are cheapened because he left Cleveland to come to Chicago.

No chance at all that happens.

By the way, the NBA is below NHL in the Harris Poll according to Rome now. This could illustrate that peeps think the NBA is a crap product.....

[kingkirk]

As stupid as it sounds, I don't know if I really wanted some cheapened championship with Lebron joining us. If we had real good gm's, we would have found some way to get real help instead of stinking Bogans, Brewer, and Korver. Korver or Brewer fine, but not all 3. I could have handled Bosh, but not Lebron. I am a bigger basketball fan than a Bulls fan. I know many will disagree, but while it would have been fun to watch chips, it would have felt dirt cheap and not real.

This certainly is a take. It's strange that folks would be happy to land other big name stars via free agency in hope of pushing toward a title, but when it's LeBron, it would have been cheap. Odd.

If the Bulls had signed LeBron in 2010 (and if he remained here), we'd have another dynasty here (most likely). You'd forgo that because you seemingly don't like LeBron and think those titles would be cheap?

I mean, Ok...

Lebron while doing fine really, his team was getting smoked in that Spurs final. Do I think Kawhi at that time would out-duel Lebron and while most of it was the team concept the Spurs/Pop had, Kawhi and them really took him out of his element despite great numbers. There was no cohesion on that Heat team that Finals, but Lebron in a way should shoulder some of that blame.

Wade and Bosh were not good in the Finals. The entire Heat supporting cast were old and couldn't keep up with the Spurs' offense which requires defenses to chase around screens on every set.

Sometimes the other team is just better, even if the losing team has the best player. It's a team game. The Spurs were the superior team and won a title because of it. That iteration of the Heat were done. They had already declined before the Finals happened. They won less games, the defense had fallen off big time and that's what killed them.

But sure, that's all on LeBron.

Now Lebron is an all-time great, but I feel his greatness is greatly over-exagerrated. In fact, I credit his marketing for making him looking better than he is. Picks a weak Eastern Conference to play in as soon as he is a FA. Comes back to a younger Cavs team with some talent. I will give him credit last year's finals and I probably undersold his abilities last Finals. However, and a big however, in Game 7, when game was on the line, he missed like 5 shots in a row down the stretch. He had an incredible block at the end, but really, both teams choked down the stretch and Kyrie just happened to make a big shot. Which illustrates my point. The Warriors are talked about some great all-time team last year. However, Klay is a good shooter, but not some top 15 player good. Maybe fringe top 20 that can get hot at some point. Curry as much as I love him can shrink when pressured and played with physical defense. Draymond is a great glue player that can do many things, but is not someone that can regularly score; although not some liability. So they get the ultra-talented Durant who is another semi-soft player. The 96 Sonics with the Glove on Curry, Hawkins on Thompson, and Kemp would have given either one of these teams a run and I feel would have won. The 97/98 Jazz would have beat the Cavs/Warriors once in my opinion. Heck the 14 Spurs would have beat both of these teams.

You are in the extreme minority on your opinion of the Warriors versus the 96 Sonics.

Curry had arguably the greatest offensive season by any player EVER last season, and you're reducing him. He is a 2-time MVP! He is going down in the record books as a better player than Gary Payton. Durant is superior to Kemp by a mile.

I'm not even going to continue on this section because it's so ridiculously off base.

I"m saying Lebron is the most talented all-around player to ever play and regular season and 3 quarters, is one of the greatest players of all-time. However, Ray Allen and Kyrie hit the big shots to help him look great at the end. He had a great block, but at t the end of games, he still passes the ball the majority of times to a big shot player. Yes, we had the Paxson/Kerr shots with Jordan, but Jordan over and over again hit big shots. Same with Larry Bird, etc... I mean can you imagine a prime Larry Bird in this era? He would be the modern Stretch 4, that would be the best player of the game despite the NBA athleticism.

You're right, LeBron has never made big shots or had huge playoff moments, while Michael Jordan hit all the shots and never had any of his support players win him games with jumpers...

Let's look at the stats in general across the NBA this year for individuals. Look at the Triple Double Westbrook, Jimmy's numbers, Harden's near triple double average, Isaiah Thomas number's.... If you put Isaiah Thomas and Larry Bird on the same team, who is the scoring leader? Would the Celts be the favorites? I mean Bird's rebounding numbers would have been better. Imagine Larry Legend against Lebron in the clutch. I mean the Dirk Mavs schooled the 11 Heat... While as great at Dirk is, I would say Larry would take him to lunch playing against him. Larry Bird again Kevin Love? Easy to see who is winning that. Larry Legend would make Lebron cry talking trash.

Sure, let's just ignore the fact that LeBron would physically dominate Bird on both ends. I doubt that would impact anything at all.

So yes, I take him jumping ship to be watered down. I can't remember how many big shots Lebron has made. I think both in a watered down NBA make me think while he is an all-time great, he is not even top 3 in my opinion. I mean is KD the second best tied with Kawhi in todays game. Can you imagine Westbrook/Harden being the, He top 5 player in the 90's? Also, this Warriors team to me is not any better than the 02 Kings that got jobbed from winning one. Would you take Curry, Thompson, KD, Green over Vlade, Webber, Stojakivic, Bibby, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Hedo, Scot Pollard? Small-ball, sure put Bibby, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Stoj, Webber....

What the **** am I reading here? Seriously?

I apologize for the hostility, but I've had enough of these opinions that have zero fact to them at all.

Would I take the 2017 Warriors or the 2002 Kings? Hmmm...

[RedBulls23]

I certainly think people would in an argument of if he's as good or better than MJ.

I'm sorry, but I call bull here.

In comparing the two, it would be mentioned that LeBron never did as much as Jordan, already losing in 2007 and possibly a few more times had he joined the Bulls, not Heat.

I don't think the members of this board would be tarnishing LeBron's legacy by saying his titles in Chicago, their team, are cheapened because he left Cleveland to come to Chicago.

No chance at all that happens.

And I think they would in direct comparison to MJ. Considering this IS the Bulls board.

[kingkirk]

And I think they would in direct comparison to MJ. Considering this IS the Bulls board.

And I think they wouldn't.

If LeBron won titles here in Chicago, he'd be beloved. It wouldn't be as great as the love for Jordan, but being the guy who brought back titles, he would be revered.

You really think people would be saying his titles in Chicago were cheapened or didn't mean as much as a regular title, it killed competition etc?

People would be saying MJ > LeBron, but I doubt very much that fans of the Bulls would be knocking down the legacy of one of their own. It goes against the principles of fandom in the first place.

I mean, you've still got a huge portion of the fan base that rides with Derrick Rose and will unequivocally support him no matter what, but we would cheapen LeBron's titles here if he were a Bull and won them here?

Nah.

[dice]

I certainly think people would in an argument of if he's as good or better than MJ.

I'm sorry, but I call bull here.

In comparing the two, it would be mentioned that LeBron never did as much as Jordan, already losing in 2007 and possibly a few more times had he joined the Bulls, not Heat.

I don't think the members of this board would be tarnishing LeBron's legacy by saying his titles in Chicago, their team, are cheapened because he left Cleveland to come to Chicago.

No chance at all that happens.

what's your point? the opinions of homer fans have no bearing on the argument. are you suggesting that the argument is invalid because miami fans disagree? or because cleveland fans disagree? then what would the difference be if it was bulls fans who disagreed? the opinions of the fanbase of the player in question are automatically questionable

[dice]

Zaza should be suspended for that bush league move. A dirty play like he did could not only cost the Spurs the series (or any chance they had in it) but also deprive the NBA of one of its best players playing at his top level for the playoffs, which hurts the product. They have to crack down on crap like that.

Anyone telling me that wasn't Intentional or dirty is full of ****.

I Wouldn't blame the Spurs for retaliating on KD.

For sure. If I were the Spurs, I'm "closing out" super hard on both Steph and KD in G2 to prove a point.

is NOBODY going to point out the flagrant hypocrisy of popovich pretending to be incredulous about this?

[kulaz3000]

And I think they would in direct comparison to MJ. Considering this IS the Bulls board.

And I think they wouldn't.

If LeBron won titles here in Chicago, he'd be beloved. It wouldn't be as great as the love for Jordan, but being the guy who brought back titles, he would be revered.

You really think people would be saying his titles in Chicago were cheapened or didn't mean as much as a regular title, it killed competition etc?

People would be saying MJ > LeBron, but I doubt very much that fans of the Bulls would be knocking down the legacy of one of their own. It goes against the principles of fandom in the first place.

I mean, you've still got a huge portion of the fan base that rides with Derrick Rose and will unequivocally support him no matter what, but we would cheapen LeBron's titles here if he were a Bull and won them here?

Nah.

I don't disagree with you, but comparing LeBron and Derrick in this particular argument is way off.

Derrick was drafted by the Bulls as a home town kid. He effectively grew up as a Bulls, which is why some fans (myself included in some ways still) has an attachment and affection for him, even after all we've been through with him.

If LeBron had the same path he had in Chicago as he did with Miami, winning a few championships and then leaving, speaking for myself only, I would still have respected him as a basketball player, but I definitely wouldn't have put him up on some pedestal either.

[RedBulls23]

And I think they would in direct comparison to MJ. Considering this IS the Bulls board.

And I think they wouldn't.

If LeBron won titles here in Chicago, he'd be beloved. It wouldn't be as great as the love for Jordan, but being the guy who brought back titles, he would be revered.

You really think people would be saying his titles in Chicago were cheapened or didn't mean as much as a regular title, it killed competition etc?

People would be saying MJ > LeBron, but I doubt very much that fans of the Bulls would be knocking down the legacy of one of their own. It goes against the principles of fandom in the first place.

I mean, you've still got a huge portion of the fan base that rides with Derrick Rose and will unequivocally support him no matter what, but we would cheapen LeBron's titles here if he were a Bull and won them here?

Nah.

Again, we are talking about Lebron's Titles and legacy compared to Jordan's. In that scenario, Bulls fans would. Most of them anyway.

And DRose is literally a home town guy. Lebron isn't. There is no comparison there.

[kulaz3000]

Anyone telling me that wasn't Intentional or dirty is full of ****.

I Wouldn't blame the Spurs for retaliating on KD.

For sure. If I were the Spurs, I'm "closing out" super hard on both Steph and KD in G2 to prove a point.

is NOBODY going to point out the flagrant hypocrisy of popovich pretending to be incredulous about this?

Not at all.

He acknowledged during his rant that it was an issue in the past (referring to Bowen and other's who were notorious for doing the same thing) and the league wanting to stamp it out for years.

And lets be real, he is sending a message to the league, as well as the refs, but most of all, he is standing up for his team so they can rally behind something. This is what a great coach does, they attempt to use any sort of mental motivation tactics to the advantage of their team.

[dice]

For sure. If I were the Spurs, I'm "closing out" super hard on both Steph and KD in G2 to prove a point.

is NOBODY going to point out the flagrant hypocrisy of popovich pretending to be incredulous about this?

Not at all.

He acknowledged during his rant that it was an issue in the past (referring to Bowen and other's who were notorious for doing the same thing) and the league wanting to stamp it out for years.

And lets be real, he is sending a message to the league, as well as the refs, but most of all, he is standing up for his team so they can rally behind something. This is what a great coach does, they attempt to use any sort of mental motivation tactics to the advantage of their team.

all true...and it's still the epitome of hypocrisy

[othawhitemeat]

As stupid as it sounds, I don't know if I really wanted some cheapened championship with Lebron joining us. If we had real good gm's, we would have found some way to get real help instead of stinking Bogans, Brewer, and Korver. Korver or Brewer fine, but not all 3. I could have handled Bosh, but not Lebron. I am a bigger basketball fan than a Bulls fan. I know many will disagree, but while it would have been fun to watch chips, it would have felt dirt cheap and not real.

This certainly is a take. It's strange that folks would be happy to land other big name stars via free agency in hope of pushing toward a title, but when it's LeBron, it would have been cheap. Odd.

If the Bulls had signed LeBron in 2010 (and if he remained here), we'd have another dynasty here (most likely). You'd forgo that because you seemingly don't like LeBron and think those titles would be cheap?

I mean, Ok...

Lebron while doing fine really, his team was getting smoked in that Spurs final. Do I think Kawhi at that time would out-duel Lebron and while most of it was the team concept the Spurs/Pop had, Kawhi and them really took him out of his element despite great numbers. There was no cohesion on that Heat team that Finals, but Lebron in a way should shoulder some of that blame.

Wade and Bosh were not good in the Finals. The entire Heat supporting cast were old and couldn't keep up with the Spurs' offense which requires defenses to chase around screens on every set.

Sometimes the other team is just better, even if the losing team has the best player. It's a team game. The Spurs were the superior team and won a title because of it. That iteration of the Heat were done. They had already declined before the Finals happened. They won less games, the defense had fallen off big time and that's what killed them.

But sure, that's all on LeBron.

Now Lebron is an all-time great, but I feel his greatness is greatly over-exagerrated. In fact, I credit his marketing for making him looking better than he is. Picks a weak Eastern Conference to play in as soon as he is a FA. Comes back to a younger Cavs team with some talent. I will give him credit last year's finals and I probably undersold his abilities last Finals. However, and a big however, in Game 7, when game was on the line, he missed like 5 shots in a row down the stretch. He had an incredible block at the end, but really, both teams choked down the stretch and Kyrie just happened to make a big shot. Which illustrates my point. The Warriors are talked about some great all-time team last year. However, Klay is a good shooter, but not some top 15 player good. Maybe fringe top 20 that can get hot at some point. Curry as much as I love him can shrink when pressured and played with physical defense. Draymond is a great glue player that can do many things, but is not someone that can regularly score; although not some liability. So they get the ultra-talented Durant who is another semi-soft player. The 96 Sonics with the Glove on Curry, Hawkins on Thompson, and Kemp would have given either one of these teams a run and I feel would have won. The 97/98 Jazz would have beat the Cavs/Warriors once in my opinion. Heck the 14 Spurs would have beat both of these teams.

You are in the extreme minority on your opinion of the Warriors versus the 96 Sonics.

Curry had arguably the greatest offensive season by any player EVER last season, and you're reducing him. He is a 2-time MVP! He is going down in the record books as a better player than Gary Payton. Durant is superior to Kemp by a mile.

I'm not even going to continue on this section because it's so ridiculously off base.

I"m saying Lebron is the most talented all-around player to ever play and regular season and 3 quarters, is one of the greatest players of all-time. However, Ray Allen and Kyrie hit the big shots to help him look great at the end. He had a great block, but at t the end of games, he still passes the ball the majority of times to a big shot player. Yes, we had the Paxson/Kerr shots with Jordan, but Jordan over and over again hit big shots. Same with Larry Bird, etc... I mean can you imagine a prime Larry Bird in this era? He would be the modern Stretch 4, that would be the best player of the game despite the NBA athleticism.

You're right, LeBron has never made big shots or had huge playoff moments, while Michael Jordan hit all the shots and never had any of his support players win him games with jumpers...

Let's look at the stats in general across the NBA this year for individuals. Look at the Triple Double Westbrook, Jimmy's numbers, Harden's near triple double average, Isaiah Thomas number's.... If you put Isaiah Thomas and Larry Bird on the same team, who is the scoring leader? Would the Celts be the favorites? I mean Bird's rebounding numbers would have been better. Imagine Larry Legend against Lebron in the clutch. I mean the Dirk Mavs schooled the 11 Heat... While as great at Dirk is, I would say Larry would take him to lunch playing against him. Larry Bird again Kevin Love? Easy to see who is winning that. Larry Legend would make Lebron cry talking trash.

Sure, let's just ignore the fact that LeBron would physically dominate Bird on both ends. I doubt that would impact anything at all.

So yes, I take him jumping ship to be watered down. I can't remember how many big shots Lebron has made. I think both in a watered down NBA make me think while he is an all-time great, he is not even top 3 in my opinion. I mean is KD the second best tied with Kawhi in todays game. Can you imagine Westbrook/Harden being the, He top 5 player in the 90's? Also, this Warriors team to me is not any better than the 02 Kings that got jobbed from winning one. Would you take Curry, Thompson, KD, Green over Vlade, Webber, Stojakivic, Bibby, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Hedo, Scot Pollard? Small-ball, sure put Bibby, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Stoj, Webber....

What the **** am I reading here? Seriously?

I apologize for the hostility, but I've had enough of these opinions that have zero fact to them at all.

Would I take the 2017 Warriors or the 2002 Kings? Hmmm...

I like how you ignored like half of the post to cater to yourself. Would you take the Celtic Dynasty teams or the Big 3 Heat? Would you take the Jordan Bulls or the 2017 Warriors? You know the same Warriors team getting smoked by Kawhi/Coach Pop and some above average role players? LMA on some good days...

I mean you are going off on me, but the 02 Kings should have been awarded if not for one of the biggest referee scandals and you are taking the Warriors for sure. I said Lebron is top 4, but I can't place him top 3 based on his cheapened years and his inability to close during the biggest moments. You said you have some big moments.. Name me some big shots he has hit for game winners/tie-ups with the moments on the line.

At least answer some of the questions like prime Bird, Jordan, Magic in this era. Heck a prime Grant Hill is Kawhi like. Freak, we have Harden/Westbrook as our 2 leading MVP candidates. Curry had an all-time great season, but in that playoffs, while he hit big shots was hit/miss in the Finals. Playoffs is also about toughness and not just skill/athletic ability. You saying a prime glove could not have messed a little with Klay/Curry? You did not answer if you put Bird on this Celtics team, how much better he would be than everyone else on the court.

I'm saying it is a watered down NBA and I'm saying Lebron is an all-time great, but he has lost to teams in the Finals less talented to be considered the #2. He also outside of last year's finals, has shrunk consistently to hit a big shot. I can't name many big-time shots he has hit at http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-kobe-bryant-clutch-shooting-awful-airball-5-for-47-022916. I'm saying many current NBA players have had astronomical inflated offensive seasons. I"m saying this is a soft league and has been for a while.

I don't need to argue with you and your self-righteous attitude.

[MrSparkle]

Nice game 7 here

[BahamaBull]

i wished Niko was half as good as Olynik...

[Proven_Winner]

Wizards have the worst defensive big men right now. These dudes aren't even guarding their guy even though they see the guards keep fighting over the screen.

[FecesOfDeath]

Olynyk may be a dirty player, but he's one smart and skilled dirty player.