Zach Collins

[Chi town]

His interview and workout video on DX shows a lot. He's fluid and skilled.

IMO he is the new NBA 5. Rim protector that can shoot 3s and defend the PnR. I think he can be a Marc Gasol type of C w better athleticism.

[Slartibartfast]

His interview and workout video on DX shows a lot. He's fluid and skilled.

IMO he is the new NBA 5. Rim protector that can shoot 3s and defend the PnR. I think he can be a Marc Gasol type of C w better athleticism.

Gasol is a great passer and not the most mobile guy. I continue to think Collins is more like Myles Turner. Face-up mid-range jump-shooting scorer with deep range and good shot-blocking/defensive ability

[SBM]

I watched him a little bit at Gonzaga and highlights. He is good but I question him because he didn't play many minutes and its not like he has next level size, he will have to deal with guys right there with him when he elevates in the NBA.

[BlazersBroncos]

Has everyone forgotten Raef LaFrentz? I can see Collins being a comparable player, maybe a bit better rebounder and not quite as much of a 3PT camper.

[skones]

I watched him a little bit at Gonzaga and highlights. He is good but I question him because he didn't play many minutes and its not like he has next level size, he will have to deal with guys right there with him when he elevates in the NBA.

His ability to pop on screens changes everything for him at the next level in terms of his offense. He'll be able to attack closeouts. I don't think many really expect him to elevate over defenders.

[Slartibartfast]

Has everyone forgotten Raef LaFrentz? I can see Collins being a comparable player, maybe a bit better rebounder and not quite as much of a 3PT camper.

Why do you have to go back to Raef LaFrentz when Myles Turner was drafted 2 years ago?

Raef a good comp skill-wise (as he was for Turner) but doesn't add much to the convo since the era he played in was so different style-wise than today.

[Mik317]

Raef was **** broken in one of the early 00' Basketball games. He legit never missed.

[BlazersBroncos]

Why do you have to go back to Raef LaFrentz when Myles Turner was drafted 2 years ago?

Mostly because IMO Turner is a bouncier athlete with a higher ceiling than Zach, and that Collins, like Raef, will fit better as a center where Turner could start at either PF or C.

I am quite high on Collins, but I think Myles can be a #2 option type. I don't see Collins as anything above a low level #3, but more of someone you want as a #4 if your thinking about winning anything serious.

[Chi town]

His interview and workout video on DX shows a lot. He's fluid and skilled.

IMO he is the new NBA 5. Rim protector that can shoot 3s and defend the PnR. I think he can be a Marc Gasol type of C w better athleticism.

Gasol is a great passer and not the most mobile guy. I continue to think Collins is more like Myles Turner. Face-up mid-range jump-shooting scorer with deep range and good shot-blocking/defensive ability

Turner is a good comp.

[Mickey8]

If the Blazers want Zac they will have to trade up for him. Despite what his wing span may or may not be, he is a 7 footer who can shoot and block shots. That is the kind of 7 footer everyone wants now. No way he falls to 15.

He was measured 6'10 without shoes and 7 ft. in shoes

[SBM]

The main thing is he is draftable. I would draft him in the right situation but I don't think u get much out of him soon

[DrCoach]

If the Blazers want Zac they will have to trade up for him. Despite what his wing span may or may not be, he is a 7 footer who can shoot and block shots. That is the kind of 7 footer everyone wants now. No way he falls to 15.

He was measured 6'10 without shoes and 7 ft. in shoes

Which makes him 7ft

[Blazinaway]

I am starting to think Zach may be gettin a bit over rated here, I am just not sure he is all that much better than the multitude of C or PF/C prospects in the 11 to 25/30 section of this draft. I think workouts and scouting are going to be very important to try to separate a lot of these guys.

[RipCity71252]

Biggest thing I like about Collins is his twitch and aggressiveness defensively. Already is able to process a lot of information pretty quickly and react accordingly. I think it's the big thing he has on Allen and Patton besides the stretch potential.

Just not sure he has the frame, in-traffic athleticism, flexibility or creativity combination needed to be very dynamic offensively. But if he can hit the nba 3, and do something with the ball if he's closed out on (1-2 dribble pull-ups, be a ball mover) plus finish drop off passes and take advantage of switches in the post, he'll bring enough value offensively to be a playable rotation big most likely.

I do agree though that if you take everything into account, the gap between the 3 is really not that large. And you could argue Zach has the lowest ceiling of the 3 if Patton and Allen make considerable IQ/twitch improvements defensively. Just not sure if I have much faith in that happening, although if I had to pick one it'd be Patton.

I do think he struggles pretty badly his first 1-2 years too but that shouldn't shock people. His foul and turnover rates are real issues and he needs to get a lot stronger as well. People like to compare him to Turner, but I don't think the transition is going to be nearly as smooth for him.

[Slartibartfast]

Biggest thing I like about Collins is his twitch and aggressiveness defensively. Already is able to process a lot of information pretty quickly and react accordingly. I think it's the big thing he has on Allen and Patton besides the stretch potential.

Just not sure he has the frame, in-traffic athleticism, flexibility or creativity combination needed to be very dynamic offensively. But if he can hit the nba 3, and do something with the ball if he's closed out on (1-2 dribble pull-ups, be a ball mover) plus finish drop off passes and take advantage of switches in the post, he'll bring enough value offensively to be a playable rotation big most likely.

I do agree though that if you take everything into account, the gap between the 3 is really not that large. And you could argue Zach has the lowest ceiling of the 3 if Patton and Allen make considerable IQ/twitch improvements defensively. Just not sure if I have much faith in that happening, although if I had to pick one it'd be Patton.

I do think he struggles pretty badly his first 1-2 years too but that shouldn't shock people. His foul and turnover rates are real issues and he needs to get a lot stronger as well. People like to compare him to Turner, but I don't think the transition is going to be nearly as smooth for him.

He put up MUCH better shot-blocking numbers than both Patton and Allen while outproducing them across the board and showing significantly more jump-shooting ability.

Compare them per 40: Collins put up 23/14 with 4 blocks and 67/48/74 shooting splits. Allen put up 17/10 with 2 blocks and 57/00/56 shooting splits. Patton put up 21/10 with 2 blocks and 68/53/52 shooting splits.

Just not particularly close. Better scorer, better rebounder, better shot-blocker, better jump-shooting fundamentals. Big foul and turnover problems sure, but raw productivity a better indicator of ultimate potential.

And I like Patton - I think he's a great value in the mid-first. Just Collins is very close to can't miss as a high-level starter with his package of skills.

[RipCity71252]

Biggest thing I like about Collins is his twitch and aggressiveness defensively. Already is able to process a lot of information pretty quickly and react accordingly. I think it's the big thing he has on Allen and Patton besides the stretch potential.

Just not sure he has the frame, in-traffic athleticism, flexibility or creativity combination needed to be very dynamic offensively. But if he can hit the nba 3, and do something with the ball if he's closed out on (1-2 dribble pull-ups, be a ball mover) plus finish drop off passes and take advantage of switches in the post, he'll bring enough value offensively to be a playable rotation big most likely.

I do agree though that if you take everything into account, the gap between the 3 is really not that large. And you could argue Zach has the lowest ceiling of the 3 if Patton and Allen make considerable IQ/twitch improvements defensively. Just not sure if I have much faith in that happening, although if I had to pick one it'd be Patton.

I do think he struggles pretty badly his first 1-2 years too but that shouldn't shock people. His foul and turnover rates are real issues and he needs to get a lot stronger as well. People like to compare him to Turner, but I don't think the transition is going to be nearly as smooth for him.

He put up MUCH better shot-blocking numbers than both Patton and Allen while outproducing them across the board and showing significantly more jump-shooting ability.

Compare them per 40: Collins put up 23/14 with 4 blocks and 67/48/74 shooting splits. Allen put up 17/10 with 2 blocks and 57/00/56 shooting splits. Patton put up 21/10 with 2 blocks and 68/53/52 shooting splits.

Just not particularly close. Better scorer, better rebounder, better shot-blocker, better jump-shooting fundamentals. Big foul and turnover problems sure, but raw productivity a better indicator of ultimate potential.

And I like Patton - I think he's a great value in the mid-first. Just Collins is very close to can't miss as a high-level starter with his package of skills.

I basically addressed everything you said without explicitly saying it but w/e.

The only thing I'm hesitant about with Collins is using his per 40's to project his offensive upside. Do I think he can be a valuable offensive big? Yes and I outlined the reasons why above, but I think people are ignoring a lot of the context w/ him in this area.

He's great when he has a size/athleticism advantage--which he had in every tournament game he played in--but struggled pretty badly finishing in traffic / in the post vs legit center size/length throughout the season.

[Slartibartfast]

Biggest thing I like about Collins is his twitch and aggressiveness defensively. Already is able to process a lot of information pretty quickly and react accordingly. I think it's the big thing he has on Allen and Patton besides the stretch potential.

Just not sure he has the frame, in-traffic athleticism, flexibility or creativity combination needed to be very dynamic offensively. But if he can hit the nba 3, and do something with the ball if he's closed out on (1-2 dribble pull-ups, be a ball mover) plus finish drop off passes and take advantage of switches in the post, he'll bring enough value offensively to be a playable rotation big most likely.

I do agree though that if you take everything into account, the gap between the 3 is really not that large. And you could argue Zach has the lowest ceiling of the 3 if Patton and Allen make considerable IQ/twitch improvements defensively. Just not sure if I have much faith in that happening, although if I had to pick one it'd be Patton.

I do think he struggles pretty badly his first 1-2 years too but that shouldn't shock people. His foul and turnover rates are real issues and he needs to get a lot stronger as well. People like to compare him to Turner, but I don't think the transition is going to be nearly as smooth for him.

He put up MUCH better shot-blocking numbers than both Patton and Allen while outproducing them across the board and showing significantly more jump-shooting ability.

Compare them per 40: Collins put up 23/14 with 4 blocks and 67/48/74 shooting splits. Allen put up 17/10 with 2 blocks and 57/00/56 shooting splits. Patton put up 21/10 with 2 blocks and 68/53/52 shooting splits.

Just not particularly close. Better scorer, better rebounder, better shot-blocker, better jump-shooting fundamentals. Big foul and turnover problems sure, but raw productivity a better indicator of ultimate potential.

And I like Patton - I think he's a great value in the mid-first. Just Collins is very close to can't miss as a high-level starter with his package of skills.

I basically addressed everything you said without explicitly saying it but w/e.

The only thing I'm hesitant about with Collins is using his per 40's to project his offensive upside. Do I think he can be a valuable offensive big? Yes and I outlined the reasons why above, but I think people are missing some context you get when you watch him play.

He's great when he has a size/athleticism advantage--which he had in every tournament game he played in--but struggled pretty badly finishing in traffic / in the post vs legit center size/length.

You said there wasn't much of a gap and that Collins has the lowest ceiling. You said if he can hit the 3, attack closeouts and punish switches he'd be a "playable rotation big."

It wasn't that you didn't address the positives in his game, it's that you treated them as nothing special and went on to underrate him.

If Collins can shoot the 3 and attack mismatches in the post in addition to playing plus team defense and blocking shots in volume, he's not a "playable rotation big," he's one of the top starting big men in the game.

Allen hasn't shown any capacity to be true stretch 5 (0-7 from deep and bad FT shooter) and was less than half the shotblocker Collins was. Also poorer on the glass. Poorer standing reach.

A better argument for Patton, but still a far inferior shot blocker and rebounder with a much bigger red flag on his jump shooting (his FT%).

The overall point, you aren't putting enough distance between them as prospects even with your qualifiers, IMO.

[RipCity71252]

He put up MUCH better shot-blocking numbers than both Patton and Allen while outproducing them across the board and showing significantly more jump-shooting ability.

Compare them per 40: Collins put up 23/14 with 4 blocks and 67/48/74 shooting splits. Allen put up 17/10 with 2 blocks and 57/00/56 shooting splits. Patton put up 21/10 with 2 blocks and 68/53/52 shooting splits.

Just not particularly close. Better scorer, better rebounder, better shot-blocker, better jump-shooting fundamentals. Big foul and turnover problems sure, but raw productivity a better indicator of ultimate potential.

And I like Patton - I think he's a great value in the mid-first. Just Collins is very close to can't miss as a high-level starter with his package of skills.

I basically addressed everything you said without explicitly saying it but w/e.

The only thing I'm hesitant about with Collins is using his per 40's to project his offensive upside. Do I think he can be a valuable offensive big? Yes and I outlined the reasons why above, but I think people are missing some context you get when you watch him play.

He's great when he has a size/athleticism advantage--which he had in every tournament game he played in--but struggled pretty badly finishing in traffic / in the post vs legit center size/length.

You said there wasn't much of a gap and that Collins has the lowest ceiling. You said if he can hit the 3, attack closeouts and punish switches he'd be a "playable rotation big."

It wasn't that you didn't address the positives in his game, it's that you treated them as nothing special and went on to underrate him.

If Collins can shoot the 3 and attack mismatches in the post in addition to playing plus team defense and blocking shots in volume, he's not a "playable rotation big," he's one of the top starting big men in the game.

Allen hasn't shown any capacity to be true stretch 5 (0-7 from deep and bad FT shooter) and was less than half the shotblocker Collins was. Also poorer on the glass. Poorer standing reach.

A better argument for Patton, but still a far inferior shot blocker and rebounder with a much bigger red flag on his jump shooting (his FT%).

The overall point, you aren't putting enough distance between them as prospects even with your qualifiers, IMO.

Again, I don't disagree with anything you're saying here. I do think we vary on the levels of effectiveness he'll have in each of his skill areas offensively though which changes his ceiling conversation quite a bit. I think people confuse being able to do certain things into meaning they'll be above average to great at them. It's something we need to do a better job clarifying.

But getting back to it, Zach is highest on my list and is clearly the best player of the 3 right now, but I think what we differ on is their future growth curves. Allen and Patton both have a lot more room for growth imo.

[whitehops]

i see a lot of myles turner comps, but am i the only one who thinks collins is closer to thon maker as a prospect?

[Klomp]

I think his biggest weakness is the ability to get beyond the stigma of being a stereotypical white American big. I think he has the necessary physical tools to be successful.