The Aftermath/Offseason Part 2

Post #1 » by **SD2042** » Mon May 1, 2017 3:11 pm

The Memphis Grizzlies finished the 2016-17 season with 43 wins and 39 losses. The season was filled with injuries, issues of consistency, a new coach and staff who did as well as necessary with the tools at their disposal. They struggled their way into the playoff picture for the seventh year and fourth time against their big brother San Antonio Spurs. The season ended with the Spurs winning the series 4-2. The Grizzlies will stay home for the second consecutive year after being ousted in the first round.

They will hit the offseason with many questions that need to be addressed.

Will this season mark the end of the Grit-N-Grind era?

Of the four agents: JaMychal Green(RFA), Zach Randolph(UFA), Tony Allen(UFA), and Vince Carter(UFA)
who will be officially brought back? If at all?

Will Marc Gasol's inconsistencies in the playoffs ends his run as a Grizzly?

With no draft picks in this upcoming draft, will the Grizzlies find a way to obtain a pick by the 2017 NBA Draft Night?

Will the front office ever get it right in terms of managing the salary to retain and sign some free agents for the sake of the future?

The enigma known as Chandler Parsons: How do you expect a 94 million contract to stay healthy when he has a history of injuries?

My Perspective:

The Grit-N-Grind Era has been a great ride for the Grizzlies and the city of Memphis. It put the team on the map for the last several years. They been to the playoffs for seven consecutive seasons. They managed to keep their core group together for quite sometime. Now the main core have gotten older and the NBA landscape has changed quite a bit. While the NBA have progressed mostly on the offensive end, the Grizzlies continued to hang on to their defense mantra. The problem with that is that the offense suffered for the last several seasons. The offense was by committee, however they ranked in the bottom five for 3% shooting and lack of balance on offense overall.

The front office need to address this issue in a better way. Retool the roster rather than do a complete overall. The likely scenario depending on how it works is that the Grizzlies could treadmill for a while as the likely to get younger and develop their talent for the sake of their future. It's the better route than a lengthy rebuild like how the Magic, Sixers, Lakers, and Kings are doing right now.

To Marc Gasol: Gasol is a good center for what he does. He's been a solid defender and rebounder until this season. He's learned to become a better three point shooter under Fizdale. Marc however has been a reluctant leader who defers to others and lacks a better sense of assertiveness on the floor. As much as I respect Marc for what he's done for the Grizzlies, I think at this juncture, change is necessary for the better of the franchise. Marc has value and can bring back some upcoming players and perhaps a pick or two.

To the free agents:

TA: You the Grindfather who started the Grit-N-Grind Era. 1st team all Defense. You took on the heavy assignments and make them earn their points: Keven Durant, Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Kobe Bryant. It was Bryant who said that you were the hardest defender he's ever faced and you earned his respect for it. You' also brought fierce aggressiveness and leadershipIt's possible you could come back on a vets minimum. However with your injuries in the last couple of seasons and the age factor, would it be worth the cost to bring you back? It pains me to say it's time to make better adjustments at the SG spot.

JMG: Green has been a solid PF for what he has done. He's proven capable of knocking down the 3 pointer at times, Provide energy and defense to the Grizzlies front line. Overall, I feel like he comes across like a player who provides energy and athleticism from off the bench. He will demand his far share of money likely around 12 to 15 million a season. Is Green worth the money? I say no.

VC; The guy has been in the league about 20 years. He stepped in for Parsons as he was in and out the lineup and eventually listed out for the season. He's been a great mentor to the young talent on the roster. VC went beyond his duty to play solid minutes at the SF position. After three years, I think it's time to move on from VC.

Zbo: I believe when someone mentions a player on the Grizzlies, I think Zach Randolph is the first name that pops up. This is a guy who was a couple of seasons removed from the 'JailBlazers" stigma that all appear to follow him for the rest of his days. Thxfully, he was traded to the Grizzlies where his life and career turned around for the better. He's made his mark around the Memphis community in many ways. He's been a difference maker on the court and is part of the core four that help shape the Grit-N-Grind mantra. That said, I would prefer the Grizzlies keep him for a couple of seasons. How much salary will Zbo be willing to negotiate to stay in Memphis? All of that belong to the front office to answer.

Front Office:

God knows there are issues within the front office. Through questionable signings, draft picks, and perhaps trades. The FO needs to do better by doing right by the franchise and be wise with their salary cap space, talent, and ability to set some foundation to have a future to build upon. Chris Wallace signed an extension last summer. Given his track record to draft comes with critiques. At this point, they have also given up draft picks left and right in the last two seasons to get players who haven't even lasted between 1-2 seasons as Grizzlies. With the structure of the Western Conference as is, I can see this team joining the Dallas Mavericks and perhaps the L.A. Clippers as teams treading downward in the standings as teams like the Utah Jazz and MAYBE the Minnesota Timberwolves treading upward in the rankings sometime next season. The Grizzlies need to get their sht together beginning this offseason and make the tough decisions that will better the franchise for the sake of the future.

dark-child · Post #2 » by **dark-child** » Mon May 1, 2017 5:35 pm

The only issue I would have with the post is the trading of Marc Gasol, while it may be prudent it is unlikely to bring the type of value we truly need. IMO trading Marc and not getting a STAR in return also makes having the highest paid player Mike Conley Jr. on a team going nowhere look very ridiculous. I can stand to build around Mike & Marc, I just wish we had someone else calling the shots instead of our current front office. I agree with the assessment on the pending free agents and I really hate our current youth and with the exception of all people Wayne Seldon, I would want a do over on every last one of them. Troy Daniels is too one dimensional. James Ennis is okay but does not move the needle, Deyonta Davis = who really knows, Wade Baldwin = more talk than actual game, because if Andrew Harrison can out play you then what are you really? Jarrell Martin = if you hadn't played at LSU you my friend would not be a Grizzly. Therefore getting draft picks and have the current front office do the picking is a recipe for disaster. It is the equivalent of being married to Halle Berry but being a Eunuch.

dark-child · Post #3 » by **dark-child** » Mon May 1, 2017 5:50 pm

I did a quick check on potential Marc Gasol deals that could make sense. While deals with Orlando, and Denver would be very interesting. I came across a potential thought provoking deal. Would New Orleans consider Marc Gasol for D. Cousins and A. Ajinca? Could Mar Gasol possibly be the perfect fit next to Anthony Davis?

Post #4 » by **SD2042** » Mon May 1, 2017 10:21 pm

dark-child wrote:I did a quick check on potential Marc Gasol deals that could make sense. While deals with Orlando, and Denver would be very interesting. I came across a potential thought provoking deal. Would New Orleans consider Marc Gasol for D. Cousins and A. Ajinca? Could Mar Gasol possibly be the perfect fit next to Anthony Davis?

Orlando is definitely a team I would target given their situation. I would could see a deal involving Niko Vucevic and filler being the starting point of the deal. To Denver, I know they are intrigued with Nikola Jokic and are in line to retain Mason Plumlee. It's possible on Plumlee and Chandler as starting points for the Grizzlies.

As for NOLA, I think the up-tempo of their system will offset what Gasol brings to the table. Especially if it's for Cousins. Also I think NOLA appear committed to have Cousins and Davis being their dynamic duo for the remaining of their time as teammates.

BAMAFREAK · Post #5 » by **BAMAFREAK** » Wed May 3, 2017 7:34 pm

I look at it two ways if the FO is serious about winning a title and not just doing enough to keep fans coming:
1. we think Parsons returns fully healthy and fits with Conley and Gasol how we want him to. Then you have very very good players at PG and C with a perfect match of pass, shoot, and slash at the 3 in Parsons. Even though this first year has been a trainwreck, there is a reason we signed him for what he is. When healthy he is a perfect fit, a guy who can make plays for others while also scoring 15-18 a night, sorely needed this year. So, if we bank on him coming back healthy then the question is do you re sign some of our 4 FAs or let them walk and use that money elsewhere? As bad as it would suck, I say we let VC and ZBo walk. See if JAM takes a deal, if not, let him walk(tough for me to say being from Montgomery and a Bama grad) then re sign TA for a year or two. Then we have an all around PG, defending SG who doesnt score much, a wing that can do it all at an above average level(assuming he is healthy), and an elite scoring C. We need a hard nosed PF and there is one on the market, and it would be my dream to sign him(although highly unlikely). Enter Paul Milsap. A bulldog who can do it all and fits the Memphis grind as well as anybody. Do what you have to to sign him and you are set with the starters. Depth, hmm, cross your fingers and hope Baldwin, Davis, etc develop.
Or you re sign JAM and sign a SG who can score like maybe KCP from Detroit.

2. Complete rebuild around Conley. Let everyone walk unless you can get a deal done with JAM. Offer Gasol to Boston for the Nets first and either Crowder or Bradley. They need a big man who can shoot to keep the paint open for IT while also getting rebounds and allowing Horford to play the 4 4/5. They have a prime window to compete with the roster they have so Fultz or Ball wont help them as much as Gasol. Any deal fro Marc has to bring back a high pick and no one else in the high lottery is looking for a 32 year old C. Unless Phoenix thinks they are ready to compete with Bledsoe, Booker, Chriss, etc.

dalton749 · Post #6 » by **dalton749** » Wed May 10, 2017 7:44 am

Marc to Toronto for valanciunas/Powell/nogueria

dark-child · Post #7 » by **dark-child** » Wed May 10, 2017 1:27 pm

dalton749 wrote:Marc to Toronto for valanciunas/Powell/nogueria

NOPE

These were the pennies on the dollar moves, WE should not be interested in. A top three center in the league has more value than this.

Post #8 » by **SD2042** » Thu May 11, 2017 2:19 am

dark-child wrote:
dalton749 wrote:Marc to Toronto for valanciunas/Powell/nogueria

NOPE

These were the pennies on the dollar moves, WE should not be interested in. A top three center in the league has more value than this.

For some reason, every time Gasol gets put into a trade scenario, Valanciunas name always pops up. No disrespect to JV, but he isn't the player that best fit the Grizzlies in terms of defense identity and doesn't bring enough offensive output to the table.

Post #9 » by **retrobro90** » Wed May 17, 2017 8:05 am

Thunder fan here. What are grizz feelings on a trade involving Adams and Gasol?

dark-child · Post #10 » by **dark-child** » Wed May 17, 2017 1:10 pm

retrobro90 wrote:Thunder fan here. What are grizz feelings on a trade involving Adams and Gasol?

While Adams is a good player with a lot of heart, he would not do anything for Memphis as a replacement for Marc Gasol other than being younger. Furthermore a trade between the two teams just doesn't feel right. I am not saying that we hate OKC but we are not sending Christmas cards or well wishes your way either.

Post #11 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 17, 2017 6:53 pm

I think we likely try to resign all of our free agents in some capacity due purely to salary constraints aiming for short deals except with Green. If we renounce all of our free agents we only have 8m in cap. Roughly the same amount as the MLE we get if we are over the cap. It costs Pera money, but if we don't sign our free agents we get nothing in return to replace them short of a sign and trade netting us an exception. Now if BKN wants to take Parsons on along with some of our youth/2nds...

MemphisX · Post #12 » by **MemphisX** » Fri May 26, 2017 5:52 pm

Marc Gasol/Brandan Wright/Wade Baldwin for Nikola Vucevic/Evan Fournier/Mario Hezonja

Post #13 » by **SD2042** » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:13 am

VCfor3 wrote:I think we likely try to resign all of our free agents in some capacity due purely to salary constraints aiming for short deals except with Green. If we renounce all of our free agents we only have 8m in cap. Roughly the same amount as the MLE we get if we are over the cap. It costs Pera money, but if we don't sign our free agents we get nothing in return to replace them short of a sign and trade netting us an exception. Now if BKN wants to take Parsons on along with some of our youth/2nds...

Unless we're the San Antonio Spurs and won multiple championships, the Grizzlies will have extreme difficulty convincing all their FAs' to take lesser salaries. Like you said, if they renounce all of them, they will only have 8M. Not nearly enough. They need to open some elbow room to increase their cap room as suggested in the thread. Your Parsons to the Nets deal serves as an example(Although I don't believe teams will trade for Parsons due to his history of injuries). Situations like that can play to the Grizzlies advantage if they are wise enough to explore that avenue and obtain a solid player(preferably coming into his prime) and a pick or two coming back the Grizzlies way.

MemphisX wrote:Marc Gasol/Brandan Wright/Wade Baldwin for Nikola Vucevic/Evan Fournier/Mario Hezonja

It was mentioned before in a previous post about Marc and Vuc as a premise between the Grizzlies and Magic. Definitely a good start. The Magic have enough salary room to take on Marc's contract and have some talent on the roster to get a deal going. As for Fournier, the guy provides offense as needed. However he is inconsistent and lacks a sense of aggressiveness and ability to go beyond his means of providing that extra spark the Grizzlies need to win games. To me, he's essentially a Sixth Man, however right now, I don't think the Grizzlies have the best team assemble to justify adding him on for that purpose right now. Otherwise, maybe I would take a chance on him. As for Hezonja, my concern with the guy is that he's a potential bust. He's been though 3 coaches in two seasons. I know it's early to give up on a player very early. His game hasn't fully develop to where he needs to be as of yet. Maybe he's a late bloomer. Maybe he needs to readjust his attitude(gets too frustrated at times) about where he is in the NBA and figure out how to advance his career by continuing to improve his game from both ends.

Post #14 » by **VCfor3** » Thu Jun 1, 2017 5:15 am

SD2042 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Unless we're the San Antonio Spurs and won multiple championships, the Grizzlies will have extreme difficulty convincing all their FAs' to take lesser salaries. Like you said, if they renounce all of them, they will only have 8M. Not nearly enough. They need to open some elbow room to increase their cap room as suggested in the thread. Your Parsons to the Nets deal serves as an example(Although I don't believe teams will trade for Parsons due to his history of injuries). Situations like that can play to the Grizzlies advantage if they are wise enough to explore that avenue and obtain a solid player(preferably coming into his prime) and a pick or two coming back the Grizzlies way.

Green could be quite expensive, and someone may go after Z Bo, but I think we could bring everyone but green back at a decent price. I don't know if we will, but it is one option for us this off season. As for trading Parsons, I can only see two very specific scenarios and both are extremely unlikely. We won't want a salary dump since he could still potentially come back mildly healthy and fit perfectly in our system. He also is our biggest FA signing ever and the FO will never call him a bust. The Carmelo/Parsons swap as a basis of a trade could interest the FO because you could say you aren't dumping Parsons, you're getting a star player. I don't see us being the best offer for Carmelo or him waiving his clause for Memphis though. The second scenario would be if Gasol was traded for a SF without a staring center being returned. We then could try and trade Parsons for Brook Lopez though I don't know if we have the assets to make that happen. Thus, I think we are stuck with parsons for at least another year.

The magic trade makes some sense. I could get behind it though it would be tough. Personally, I like some of the potential Boston offers that have floated around these forums. I don't see Boston making any of them, but Bradley, Crowder, Mem 19, and Zizic for Gasol+ would let the grizz still compete now while getting younger. Conley/Bradley/Crowder/Green/Zizic would be fairly solid though I may want to keep Z Bo running the bench yet finishing the games instead of Zizic.

Too complicated to happen, but this blockbuster nonsense trade would help all four teams involved and make Boston the favorites to win the championship the next few years.

Spoiler:

BKN

Spoiler:

BOS

Spoiler:

PG: I. Thomas (6.261), M. Fultz (5.855), Rozier (1.989), D. Jackson (1.385)
SG: J. Butler (18.697), Robinson (1.050)
SF: G. Hayward (29), J. Ennis (3.028)
PF: T. Booker (9.125), Mickey (1.471), Yabusele (1.5)
C: M. Gasol (22.642)
Bos 2017/18 Salary: 102.015

This trade scenario begins and ends with Hayward agreeing to sign with the Celtics. Ultimately three starting positions are upgraded at the cost of young players/picks. Booker is a lateral move in regards to Amir Johnson, but he provides better rebounding. If this trades happens after the draft, you could consider adding J. Green from Memphis in a S&T (if he is cheap enough), have T. Young go to Memphis, and leave T. Booker out. I would have just let Boston get T. Young but the extra 5m would be impossible to add unless Hayward will sign for a million or two less. A lineup of Thomas/Butler/Hayward/Booker/Gasol would be hell to deal with. King James would have some competition in the East. Bring Yabusele over for additional depth in the frontcourt and maybe add a vet minimum C as well and you are pretty well set. Fultz/Robinson/Ennis/Yabusele could be a very young yet solid bench as well. The Celtics could resign Thomas and Robinson with their bird rights in the summer of 2018, part of the MLE could be used on a competent PF to pair with Yabusele since Booker would be an UFA (could resign him), and the team would more or less stay together for the next few years with a decent chance of being under the luxury line. Boston also would still have the LAC pick. Value-wise I would break the incoming and outgoing players into the following:

A. Horford -> T. Booker & G. Robinson
With Gasol in, Horford is a bit less important and very expensive (~$5m more than Gasol). Getting a starting PF and a prospect for a max non-All Star player is decent. That $5m difference is very important if you want to give Hayward the max and still have some semblance of depth.

M. Smart/J. Crowder/Zizic/Mem 19 1st/#56 -> M. Gasol/Bos 19 2nd
A first, your backup PG/SG, a solid starting SF (that you are upgrading anyway), and a great prospect for a guy who is an All Star is hard to complain about. I realize that Gasol is getting older, but this is a win now type move and he played great last year. Gasol can anchor the defense and operate at a very high level on the offensive end. His rebounding was down this year, but a lot of that had to do with scheme. As one of Memphis’ top 3pt shooters, he played away from the basket more and players like Randolph, Green, and Allen hung out down low for rebounds. Fun fact, lower body strength and rebounding is the area Gasol is working to improve this summer. Last summer he focused on the 3pt shot and we saw how that worked out.

A. Bradley/J. Brown/Bkn 18 1st -> J. Butler/J. Ennis
I realize that this is a lot to give up, but Butler on a cost-controlled contract won’t be cheap. Ennis is the cherry on top to help swallow the deal since he ended up being the starting SF for the grizzlies in the playoffs and should be a very good bench player at a cost of only $3m. Ultimately you get a top 15 player to upgrade over Bradley, Ennis can replace the production Brown provided, and it cost you a mid to late 1st and a likely top pick. Boston may even be able to trade Ennis and a 2nd for Barton at the deadline this year if they want a SG instead of another SF so that Butler/Hayward have more time at the 3.

CHI

Spoiler:

IND

Spoiler:

MEM

Spoiler:

willywazza · Post #15 » by **willywazza** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 7:09 am

Is it time for Memphis to rebuild?

What do you guys think about a trade to Boston where Marc Gasol is sent in exchange for young talent and/or picks?

Do you think it makes sense for what both teams in terms of what they want to achieve in the next 12 months?

Post #16 » by **SD2042** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 3:46 pm

willywazza wrote:Is it time for Memphis to rebuild?

What do you guys think about a trade to Boston where Marc Gasol is sent in exchange for young talent and/or picks?

Do you think it makes sense for what both teams in terms of what they want to achieve in the next 12 months?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246757/Celtics-Could-Eventually-Target-Marc-Gasol-In-Trade

At this juncture, anything is possible. With the landscape of the Western Conference changing literally overnight compare to where the Grizzlies are now, it's time for some changes. Rather a complete rebuild, a retool to better their future and compete to become a threat for a title down the line.

bobobolas10 · Post #17 » by **bobobolas10** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:04 am

Ok, we may say now he GnG era is gone. That is a fat that im willing to accept. I loved being the team that played different. With a nice set of bigs, moving the ball, posting up smaller opponents, defending with teeth and nails.

The GnG is gone, does it mean we are playing with 4 players beyond the arc and 1 eventually cutting or highpost or something? In my opinion that aint no fun but with zbo gone, that is our only option i guess.

Zbo and VC going to Sacramento Kings. Now my concerns are... while most teams have signed a few players (including draft) we've just got Mclemore, a SG.

For some reason, I dont think jamychal is staying, otherwise, why FO would take that long to resign him? There must be something that is not clear there. Tony Allen recieving interest from Clippers, I hope at least they try a Sign&trade.

Last year we failed because we were short on numbers.... I am afraid if nothing changes, it will be the same.

Post #18 » by **SD2042** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 11:26 pm

bobobolas10 wrote:Ok, we may say now he GnG era is gone. That is a fat that im willing to accept. I loved being the team that played different. With a nice set of bigs, moving the ball, posting up smaller opponents, defending with teeth and nails.

The GnG is gone, does it mean we are playing with 4 players beyond the arc and 1 eventually cutting or highpost or something? In my opinion that aint no fun but with zbo gone, that is our only option i guess.

Zbo and VC going to Sacramento Kings. Now my concerns are... while most teams have signed a few players (including draft) we've just got Mclemore, a SG.

For some reason, I dont think jamychal is staying, otherwise, why FO would take that long to resign him? There must be something that is not clear there. Tony Allen recieving interest from Clippers, I hope at least they try a Sign&trade.

Last year we failed because we were short on numbers.... I am afraid if nothing changes, it will be the same.

The Grizzlies are playing the wait and see game to see if anyone will offer JaM a contract sheet and if the Grizzlies will match it or move on from Green.

vincecarter4pres · Post #19 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:43 pm

Any updates on Green?

dark-child · Post #20 » by **dark-child** » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:28 pm

Not a Peep, but as important as he could be it still pales in comparison to whether Chandler Parsons is healthy and what that would do for the season.