Hayward Undecided

[stitches]

On Hayward, he is almost 100% to opt out. There is no reason for him to opt in. It is far from certain that he'll make All-NBA, so no reason to opt in.

On his last time around in FA, it was sort of ugly. The Jazz made an offer and told him "Go see what you can get. If it is more than our offer, we'll match." He did not appreciate that at all, and informally requested that they not match the offer sheet he signed with the Hornets. Since then, things seem to have been repaired, but sometimes things linger forever.

Where are you getting this? I've never heard of something like this?

[VeryMuchWoke]

I didn't read all 6 pages, so forgive me if somebody said it in the last 4 pages(nobody in the first 2 did), but there seems to be a bit of confusion here about why would Hayward not opt-out of his deal... the reason Hayward might not opt out of his contract is financial. It's counter-intuitive since it looks like he makes a 13-14M discount for the Jazz. but if he makes all-nba team he becomes eligible for the 35% max extension, in which case he would more than make up those 14M on his new contract extension.

Why wouldn't he opt out and sign a supermax deal starting next year?

Because there is no guarantee he makes all-nba team next year.

I misread your original post.

There's no way he opts in. If he doesn't make all-NBA but wants to bet on himself making it next year, he can opt out and sign a 1+1 at the current max. There's no reason to play that extra year at a huge discount.

[Smitty731]

On Hayward, he is almost 100% to opt out. There is no reason for him to opt in. It is far from certain that he'll make All-NBA, so no reason to opt in.

On his last time around in FA, it was sort of ugly. The Jazz made an offer and told him "Go see what you can get. If it is more than our offer, we'll match." He did not appreciate that at all, and informally requested that they not match the offer sheet he signed with the Hornets. Since then, things seem to have been repaired, but sometimes things linger forever.

Where are you getting this? I've never heard of something like this?

It was reported at the time. I'll see if I can find it again. I think it may have been Marc Spears who had it IIRC.

[canman1971]

On Hayward, he is almost 100% to opt out. There is no reason for him to opt in. It is far from certain that he'll make All-NBA, so no reason to opt in.

On his last time around in FA, it was sort of ugly. The Jazz made an offer and told him "Go see what you can get. If it is more than our offer, we'll match." He did not appreciate that at all, and informally requested that they not match the offer sheet he signed with the Hornets. Since then, things seem to have been repaired, but sometimes things linger forever.

Where are you getting this? I've never heard of something like this?

It was reported at the time. I'll see if I can find it again. I think it may have been Marc Spears who had it IIRC.

Yeah, I remember this. But regardless, if a team forces you to go out and sign a deal, and then, they will decide to match or not does not exactly bode well for a happy signing. I know it's a business, but they are human.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Yeah tbh id be pissed if someone made me go interview with someone else for a job, get the number, just to have the current employer match the price. I would be pissed.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, no source ATM but I remember Hayward trying to leave, too, and asking Utah not to match.

My ideal scenario, given cap permutations, has us get Hayward in a sign-and-trade without having to renounce any holds. Leaves us salary for other deals.

I did the math awhile ago, it was something like Zeller, Jerebko with a raise, Olynyk S&T.

Other variations. But ideally you keep Amir, Smart is eligible for an extension, and you have enough spare money to get Butler or someone else.

[Fencer reregistered]

Yeah tbh id be pissed if someone made me go interview with someone else for a job, get the number, just to have the current employer match the price. I would be pissed.

When I was going into my fourth year as a stock analyst, my immediate boss asked me to find out my market value, to make it easier for him to get the OK to match it. And that's how my 3rd year compensation would up being 8X my first year's.

The punchline is that I didn't REALLY get another offer. I just implied that I had.

[radcot]

Yeah tbh id be pissed if someone made me go interview with someone else for a job, get the number, just to have the current employer match the price. I would be pissed.

When I was going into my fourth year as a stock analyst, my immediate boss asked me to find out my market value, to make it easier for him to get the OK to match it. And that's how my 3rd year compensation would up being 8X my first year's.

The punchline is that I didn't REALLY get another offer. I just implied that I had.

This sort of game is played in academia all the time.

[Fencer reregistered]

Yeah tbh id be pissed if someone made me go interview with someone else for a job, get the number, just to have the current employer match the price. I would be pissed.

When I was going into my fourth year as a stock analyst, my immediate boss asked me to find out my market value, to make it easier for him to get the OK to match it. And that's how my 3rd year compensation would up being 8X my first year's.

The punchline is that I didn't REALLY get another offer. I just implied that I had.

This sort of game is played in academia all the time.

I played it very cleanly. Perhaps academics do in the same way. The firm that interviewed me happened to pick a salary first -- to give us a chance to end discussions early if there wasn't agreement -- and then asked the team if they wanted me on board. To their dismay, one team member vetoed me. I told my boss the first part of the story, but not the last bit.

[Writebloc]

Here are the details on Hayward's restricted free agency. He was also expected to get a max offer sheet from the Cavs and intetestingly Boston was interested in Gordon way back in 2014 as well.

https://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/12/gordon-hayward-utah-jazz-match-free-agency-charlotte-hornets-contract

This is an interesting article from Salt Lake City.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5287040-155/kragthorpe-gordon-hayward-will-stay-with

[KGboss]

Here are the details on Hayward's restricted free agency. He was also expected to get a max offer sheet from the Cavs and intetestingly Boston was interested in Gordon way back in 2014 as well.

https://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/12/gordon-hayward-utah-jazz-match-free-agency-charlotte-hornets-contract

This is an interesting article from Salt Lake City.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5287040-155/kragthorpe-gordon-hayward-will-stay-with

Don't agree with his article that the only way Boston lands Hayward is if Boston gets to the finals and makes it a series against GSW.

I think Boston's response to Cleveland in the ECF is bigger because I believe everyone including Hayward knows the Celtics are not better than Cleveland, but if the Celtics can win a game or two against them, not get swept, and show how close they are to being in the mix with a guy like ^Hayward....THATS what would make it hard for him to say no.

[reload141]

Here are the details on Hayward's restricted free agency. He was also expected to get a max offer sheet from the Cavs and intetestingly Boston was interested in Gordon way back in 2014 as well.

https://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/12/gordon-hayward-utah-jazz-match-free-agency-charlotte-hornets-contract

This is an interesting article from Salt Lake City.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5287040-155/kragthorpe-gordon-hayward-will-stay-with

Don't agree with his article that the only way Boston lands Hayward is if Boston gets to the finals and makes it a series against GSW.

I think Boston's response to Cleveland in the ECF is bigger because I believe everyone including Hayward knows the Celtics are not better than Cleveland, but if the Celtics can win a game or two against them, not get swept, and show how close they are to being in the mix with a guy like ^Hayward....THATS what would make it hard for him to say no.

Beat Washington first.

[KGboss]

Here are the details on Hayward's restricted free agency. He was also expected to get a max offer sheet from the Cavs and intetestingly Boston was interested in Gordon way back in 2014 as well.

https://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/12/gordon-hayward-utah-jazz-match-free-agency-charlotte-hornets-contract

This is an interesting article from Salt Lake City.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5287040-155/kragthorpe-gordon-hayward-will-stay-with

Don't agree with his article that the only way Boston lands Hayward is if Boston gets to the finals and makes it a series against GSW.

I think Boston's response to Cleveland in the ECF is bigger because I believe everyone including Hayward knows the Celtics are not better than Cleveland, but if the Celtics can win a game or two against them, not get swept, and show how close they are to being in the mix with a guy like ^Hayward....THATS what would make it hard for him to say no.

Beat Washington first.

Obviously.

[chrisab123]

On Hayward, he is almost 100% to opt out. There is no reason for him to opt in. It is far from certain that he'll make All-NBA, so no reason to opt in.

On his last time around in FA, it was sort of ugly. The Jazz made an offer and told him "Go see what you can get. If it is more than our offer, we'll match." He did not appreciate that at all, and informally requested that they not match the offer sheet he signed with the Hornets. Since then, things seem to have been repaired, but sometimes things linger forever.

Where are you getting this? I've never heard of something like this?

I've heard this as well. There was some bad blood the year after because the Jazz bungled the negotiations got fed up and told him if you don't like this deal then try and get something better. So Hayward did with Charlotte begged the Jazz to let him go and they still matched. I'm not sure if this will play into things here but never can tell.

[stitches]

On Hayward, he is almost 100% to opt out. There is no reason for him to opt in. It is far from certain that he'll make All-NBA, so no reason to opt in.

On his last time around in FA, it was sort of ugly. The Jazz made an offer and told him "Go see what you can get. If it is more than our offer, we'll match." He did not appreciate that at all, and informally requested that they not match the offer sheet he signed with the Hornets. Since then, things seem to have been repaired, but sometimes things linger forever.

Where are you getting this? I've never heard of something like this?

I've heard this as well. There was some bad blood the year after because the Jazz bungled the negotiations got fed up and told him if you don't like this deal then try and get something better. So Hayward did with Charlotte begged the Jazz to let him go and they still matched. I'm not sure if this will play into things here but never can tell.

I'm still waiting to see the report. I can't imagine how I could have missed it or how I could have forgotten it. Of course it's possible, but I never thought things got this acrimonious between the Jazz and Hayward.

[chrisab123]

Where are you getting this? I've never heard of something like this?

I've heard this as well. There was some bad blood the year after because the Jazz bungled the negotiations got fed up and told him if you don't like this deal then try and get something better. So Hayward did with Charlotte begged the Jazz to let him go and they still matched. I'm not sure if this will play into things here but never can tell.

I'm still waiting to see the report. I can't imagine how I could have missed it or how I could have forgotten it. Of course it's possible, but I never thought things got this acrimonious between the Jazz and Hayward.

It wasn't necessarily a report. There was chatter about this after the deal happened on social media and other places. But it's turned into more or less common industry knowledge.

[stitches]

I've heard this as well. There was some bad blood the year after because the Jazz bungled the negotiations got fed up and told him if you don't like this deal then try and get something better. So Hayward did with Charlotte begged the Jazz to let him go and they still matched. I'm not sure if this will play into things here but never can tell.

I'm still waiting to see the report. I can't imagine how I could have missed it or how I could have forgotten it. Of course it's possible, but I never thought things got this acrimonious between the Jazz and Hayward.

It wasn't necessarily a report. There was chatter about this after the deal happened on social media and other places. But it's turned into more or less common industry knowledge.

There still should be some evidence of it and some source for it. I don't think I've heard even of a rumor of this happening.

[Bohemian]

Let´s get him.

[reload141]

Zach Lowe said on his podcast that he feels Hayward will stay in Utah, and that Utah are pretty confident of that and feel that they've done enough to keep him.

[Catchall]

I think to get the mega-max deal, Hayward has to be an 8 or 9-year player. I'm not sure he's eligible for it this off season, but if he makes All NBA this year or next, he'd be eligible for that extension next year. I could be wrong.

Hayward is a big-time competitor. He took a major step forward with his game in the past year and made his first All Star game, which is no small feat in the Western Conference. He did things this season and especially in the playoffs he's never done before. Having followed Hayward this year, I think his #1 priority is to continue his own personal development. He wants to see how great he can become. Does he want to compete for a chip and play with excellent players? Absolutely. But he can stay in Utah one more year on a 1x1 max deal, continue to improve, keep pressure on the Jazz to improve, see if he can make an All NBA team and see what the competitive landscape in the league looks like next year.

Maybe the idea of teaming up with IT and Horford is enticing enough for him to jump, but I'm not sure it is. If Boston really wants to recruit Hayward this offseason, I think you could trade the #1 pick and some salary to get another solid veteran player. You'd have to move out enough salary obviously so that you still have money to pay Hayward. It would be best if you can add a big who helps your rebounding and interior defense because that's a weakness.

That's my 2 cents.