Hayward Undecided

bucknersrevenge · Post #141 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:07 am

I don't see what Gordon gains by staying. Understand the loyalty and all but while Utah is relatively young I don't see a lot of avenues to improve off of what they did last year. They have a much tougher road to the Finals. Not a lot of trade assets, draft picks, cap space, etc. No visibility on the national stage as Hayward enters his prime.

Whereas Boston is literally the opposite of all that. Plus he gets to play for the only coach that knows him better than the one he's playing for now. There is almost no adjustment for him as far as learning the system. In Boston, he would soak up the marketing opportunities like crazy. As he enters and then leaves his prime, the apparatus will be in place to give him a soft landing with all the young talent growing up through the ranks. Really couldn't be a better situation for him.

fallguy · Post #142 » by **fallguy** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:09 am

We are going to see how much voodoo power Stevens has over Hayward.

Catchall · Post #143 » by **Catchall** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:22 am

bucknersrevenge wrote:I don't see what Gordon gains by staying. Understand the loyalty and all but while Utah is relatively young I don't see a lot of avenues to improve off of what they did last year. They have a much tougher road to the Finals. Not a lot of trade assets, draft picks, cap space, etc. No visibility on the national stage as Hayward enters his prime.

Whereas Boston is literally the opposite of all that. Plus he gets to play for the only coach that knows him better than the one he's playing for now. There is almost no adjustment for him as far as learning the system. In Boston, he would soak up the marketing opportunities like crazy. As he enters and then leaves his prime, the apparatus will be in place to give him a soft landing with all the young talent growing up through the ranks. Really couldn't be a better situation for him.

So Hayward is giving up $50M and a shot at the designated-player max to form a 'Big 3' with IT and Horford, plus a couple young players? At that point, the Celtics are at the cap.

Fencer reregistered · Post #144 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:53 am

bucknersrevenge wrote: he gets to play for the only coach that knows him better than the one he's playing for now.

Possibly overstated. Indeed, I don't see why one would believe it.

However, Hayward knows Stevens well enough to have high confidence in his own opinion as to whether what Stevens pitches him is credible. That's very important in its own right.

ConstableGeneva · Post #145 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:25 pm

What time are the All-NBA teams gonna be announced? That's today, right?

shawn unkempt · Post #146 » by **shawn unkempt** » Thu May 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Read on Twitter

Everything's going our way these days.

Homerclease · Post #147 » by **Homerclease** » Thu May 18, 2017 6:18 pm

shawn unkempt wrote:

Read on Twitter

Everything's going our way these days.

2 down 1 to go

ConstableGeneva · Post #148 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Thu May 18, 2017 6:22 pm

With our recent luck, I'm just now waiting on Anthony Davis to announce that he wants out of NOLA and intends to play alongside Demetrius Jackson in Boston.

TheMartian · Post #149 » by **TheMartian** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:04 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:With our recent luck, I'm just now waiting on Anthony Davis to announce that he wants out of NOLA and intends to play alongside Demetrius Jackson in Boston.

It could happen. DJ is locked up for 4 years with us so they've got time to gel together.

GreenMasterz · Post #150 » by **GreenMasterz** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:14 pm

We don't need an upgraded version of crowder .. We need a legit Center .. Y'll stuuuuuupid going after this useless player .. Where we still won't be able to beat cavs next year with Hayward .. We need a rebound machine! Close this thread and close doors for Hayward and open doors for Centers ... Cause we already have bloody good shooters in our team ..

Post #151 » by **Froob** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:16 pm

This has to be unsettling if you are a Utah fan

BannerStatus · Post #152 » by **BannerStatus** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:21 pm

GreenMasterz wrote:We don't need an upgraded version of crowder .. We need a legit Center .. Y'll stuuuuuupid going after this useless player .. Where we still won't be able to beat cavs next year with Hayward .. We need a rebound machine! Close this thread and close doors for Hayward and open doors for Centers ... Cause we already have bloody good shooters in our team ..

What centers are available? Who is the second scoring options after IT that this team desperately needs? A scoring wing is the most valuable commodity in the modern NBA. Zizic is coming, Yabu is coming. Horford SHOULD be our C in a modern lineup, if you want rebounding it should come from the PF position - who's your rebounder there that you covet that we should go after in lieu of a high-efficiency scoring stud wing player?

D for effort on your part. F for the condescension.

Iguodaladon · Post #153 » by **Iguodaladon** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:22 pm

I'd like Hayward on the team, but not at the cost of Jaylen's development. This kid could be better within a few years if given the time to flourish

Red2 · Post #154 » by **Red2** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:24 pm

I'd take another run at durant even though I don't think we have a shot at him.

ConstableGeneva · Post #155 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:29 pm

Froob wrote:This has to be unsettling if you are a Utah fan

I think it's a done deal, guys.

Captain_Caveman · Post #156 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:58 pm

Catchall wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:I don't see what Gordon gains by staying. Understand the loyalty and all but while Utah is relatively young I don't see a lot of avenues to improve off of what they did last year. They have a much tougher road to the Finals. Not a lot of trade assets, draft picks, cap space, etc. No visibility on the national stage as Hayward enters his prime.

Whereas Boston is literally the opposite of all that. Plus he gets to play for the only coach that knows him better than the one he's playing for now. There is almost no adjustment for him as far as learning the system. In Boston, he would soak up the marketing opportunities like crazy. As he enters and then leaves his prime, the apparatus will be in place to give him a soft landing with all the young talent growing up through the ranks. Really couldn't be a better situation for him.

So Hayward is giving up $50M and a shot at the designated-player max to form a 'Big 3' with IT and Horford, plus a couple young players? At that point, the Celtics are at the cap.

That's not the math. Jazz can only offer like $2m more over the first three years, and like $5m more in a 4th year. Sure, they can offer a 5th year guaranteed that no one else can, but this has not proved to be such a carrot. Guys want to sign 3+1s so they can opt out after 3 years and get another max deal while in their primes. Coincidentally enough, there will be another cap spike in three years.

Hayward takes on more risk delaying his next free agency period from 30yo to 31yo than he does in foregoing a 5th guaranteed year at a cap that will soon be obsolete.

Is that enough to make Hayward leave Utah? Guess we will see, but the fact of the matter is Utah now has almost no economic advantage over FA suitors this summer, and that's a big, big blow for them.

Homerclease · Post #157 » by **Homerclease** » Thu May 18, 2017 8:03 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Catchall wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:I don't see what Gordon gains by staying. Understand the loyalty and all but while Utah is relatively young I don't see a lot of avenues to improve off of what they did last year. They have a much tougher road to the Finals. Not a lot of trade assets, draft picks, cap space, etc. No visibility on the national stage as Hayward enters his prime.

Whereas Boston is literally the opposite of all that. Plus he gets to play for the only coach that knows him better than the one he's playing for now. There is almost no adjustment for him as far as learning the system. In Boston, he would soak up the marketing opportunities like crazy. As he enters and then leaves his prime, the apparatus will be in place to give him a soft landing with all the young talent growing up through the ranks. Really couldn't be a better situation for him.

So Hayward is giving up $50M and a shot at the designated-player max to form a 'Big 3' with IT and Horford, plus a couple young players? At that point, the Celtics are at the cap.

That's not the math. Jazz can only offer like $2m over the first three years, and like $5m more in a 4th year. Sure, they can offer a 5th year guaranteed that no one else can, but this has not proved to be such a carrot. Guys want to sign 3+1s so they can opt out after 3 years and get another max deal while in their primes. Coincidentally enough, there will be another cap spike in three years.

Hayward takes on more risk delaying his next free agency period from 30yo to 31yo than he does in foregoing a 5th guaranteed year at a cap that will soon be obsolete.

Is that enough to make Hayward leave Utah? Guess we will see, but the fact of the matter is Utah now has almost no economic advantage over FA suitors this summer, and that's a big, big blow for them.

It's happening.gif

Captain_Caveman · Post #158 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:37 pm

Threaten to sign Hayward outright, then make it a sign-and-trade. This is pretty standard and would allow us to refrain from renouncing people like Olynyk and possibly Jerebko.

Amir on a Bogans type of 1-year guaranteed deal plus a guaranteed Zeller. They can have Rozier and Yabu. We keep Kelly.

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Jaylen
Horford/Crowder
Zizic/Olynyk

We take it in the face on the lux tax next year.

Post #159 » by **Slartibartfast** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:43 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:Threaten to sign Hayward outright, then make it a sign-and-trade. This is pretty standard and would allow us to refrain from renouncing people like Olynyk and possibly Jerebko.

Amir on a Bogans type of 1-year guaranteed deal plus a guaranteed Zeller. They can have Rozier and Yabu. We keep Kelly.

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Jaylen
Horford/Crowder
Zizic/Olynyk

We take it in the face on the lux tax next year.

Way too much riding on Zizic. Plus cementing in high usage high money all-stars at the same positions Fultz and Brown play annoys me.

mwhis21 · Post #160 » by **mwhis21** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:44 pm

GreenMasterz wrote:We don't need an upgraded version of crowder .. We need a legit Center .. Y'll stuuuuuupid going after this useless player .. Where we still won't be able to beat cavs next year with Hayward .. We need a rebound machine! Close this thread and close doors for Hayward and open doors for Centers ... Cause we already have bloody good shooters in our team ..

Yes we do need an upgraded version of Crowder. Very badly. Not as badly as legit C but there's no legit C available. There's a legit borderline/soon to be ALL NBA SF on the market. We need exactly what Hayward brings, and Crowder doesn't bring it. More playmaking, self shot creating and getting to the line.