Hayward Undecided

[ConstableGeneva]

Which other teams are threats to signing Hayward? Or is it really just between Boston and Utah?

[Catchall]

I don't see what Gordon gains by staying. Understand the loyalty and all but while Utah is relatively young I don't see a lot of avenues to improve off of what they did last year. They have a much tougher road to the Finals. Not a lot of trade assets, draft picks, cap space, etc. No visibility on the national stage as Hayward enters his prime.

Whereas Boston is literally the opposite of all that. Plus he gets to play for the only coach that knows him better than the one he's playing for now. There is almost no adjustment for him as far as learning the system. In Boston, he would soak up the marketing opportunities like crazy. As he enters and then leaves his prime, the apparatus will be in place to give him a soft landing with all the young talent growing up through the ranks. Really couldn't be a better situation for him.

So Hayward is giving up $50M and a shot at the designated-player max to form a 'Big 3' with IT and Horford, plus a couple young players? At that point, the Celtics are at the cap.

That's not the math. Jazz can only offer like $2m more over the first three years, and like $5m more in a 4th year. Sure, they can offer a 5th year guaranteed that no one else can, but this has not proved to be such a carrot. Guys want to sign 3+1s so they can opt out after 3 years and get another max deal while in their primes. Coincidentally enough, there will be another cap spike in three years.

Hayward takes on more risk delaying his next free agency period from 30yo to 31yo than he does in foregoing a 5th guaranteed year at a cap that will soon be obsolete.

Is that enough to make Hayward leave Utah? Guess we will see, but the fact of the matter is Utah now has almost no economic advantage over FA suitors this summer, and that's a big, big blow for them.

What if Hayward stays another year and makes All NBA next season?

[LarryBirdsFingr]

So Hayward is giving up $50M and a shot at the designated-player max to form a 'Big 3' with IT and Horford, plus a couple young players? At that point, the Celtics are at the cap.

That's not the math. Jazz can only offer like $2m more over the first three years, and like $5m more in a 4th year. Sure, they can offer a 5th year guaranteed that no one else can, but this has not proved to be such a carrot. Guys want to sign 3+1s so they can opt out after 3 years and get another max deal while in their primes. Coincidentally enough, there will be another cap spike in three years.

Hayward takes on more risk delaying his next free agency period from 30yo to 31yo than he does in foregoing a 5th guaranteed year at a cap that will soon be obsolete.

Is that enough to make Hayward leave Utah? Guess we will see, but the fact of the matter is Utah now has almost no economic advantage over FA suitors this summer, and that's a big, big blow for them.

What if Hayward stays another year and makes All NBA next season?

neither of those will happen

[Andrew McCeltic]

If we get Fultz, get a commitment from Hayward, and then get some sort of s&t agreement that gives us cap/trade flexibility, we're going to be adding a potential superstar and an all-star wing entering his prime to an ECF team. Going to be interesting.

[Gant]

Which other teams are threats to signing Hayward? Or is it really just between Boston and Utah?

Houston might be the only other legitimate threat, but they don't have Mr. Stevens.

[Captain_Caveman]

So Hayward is giving up $50M and a shot at the designated-player max to form a 'Big 3' with IT and Horford, plus a couple young players? At that point, the Celtics are at the cap.

That's not the math. Jazz can only offer like $2m more over the first three years, and like $5m more in a 4th year. Sure, they can offer a 5th year guaranteed that no one else can, but this has not proved to be such a carrot. Guys want to sign 3+1s so they can opt out after 3 years and get another max deal while in their primes. Coincidentally enough, there will be another cap spike in three years.

Hayward takes on more risk delaying his next free agency period from 30yo to 31yo than he does in foregoing a 5th guaranteed year at a cap that will soon be obsolete.

Is that enough to make Hayward leave Utah? Guess we will see, but the fact of the matter is Utah now has almost no economic advantage over FA suitors this summer, and that's a big, big blow for them.

What if Hayward stays another year and makes All NBA next season?

That's not going to happen. The cap only rises by like $1m next summer, and his odds at All-NBA are lower than 50%. That's a bad bet for not much gain.

[bucknersrevenge]

If we get Fultz, get a commitment from Hayward, and then get some sort of s&t agreement that gives us cap/trade flexibility, we're going to be adding a potential superstar and an all-star wing entering his prime to an ECF team. Going to be interesting.

S&Ts hard cap us though right? I believe Smitty said that. I think Homer did too.

[Captain_Caveman]

If we get Fultz, get a commitment from Hayward, and then get some sort of s&t agreement that gives us cap/trade flexibility, we're going to be adding a potential superstar and an all-star wing entering his prime to an ECF team. Going to be interesting.

S&Ts hard cap us though right? I believe Smitty said that. I think Homer did too.

It does at $127m or so, but we'd be well under it if just adding Hayward and retaining Olynyk. That only impacted double S&Ts with both Hayward and Griffin.

[GoCeltics123]

Which other teams are threats to signing Hayward? Or is it really just between Boston and Utah?

Miami maybe?

[reload141]

Which other teams are threats to signing Hayward? Or is it really just between Boston and Utah?

Miami maybe?

What? No.

Utah, Boston, Houston

[Andrew McCeltic]

If we get Fultz, get a commitment from Hayward, and then get some sort of s&t agreement that gives us cap/trade flexibility, we're going to be adding a potential superstar and an all-star wing entering his prime to an ECF team. Going to be interesting.

S&Ts hard cap us though right? I believe Smitty said that. I think Homer did too.

It does at $127m or so, but we'd be well under it if just adding Hayward and retaining Olynyk. That only impacted double S&Ts with both Hayward and Griffin.

Right, it's tricky. You've got to get up to match Hayward's 30 million, I think we'd have to give maximum raises to Jerebko and Amir on 1+1 deals, there's Zeller's money, too. We actually have a bit of flexibility, when you add in an extension for Olynyk.

We'd have to get to 24 million in outgoing money, can't remember what the max annual increases are.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Threaten to sign Hayward outright, then make it a sign-and-trade. This is pretty standard and would allow us to refrain from renouncing people like Olynyk and possibly Jerebko.

Amir on a Bogans type of 1-year guaranteed deal plus a guaranteed Zeller. They can have Rozier and Yabu. We keep Kelly.

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Jaylen
Horford/Crowder
Zizic/Olynyk

We take it in the face on the lux tax next year.

Don't they go over the cap in this scenario? Horford, Olynyk hold, Zizic, Crowder, Brown, IT, Smart, AB, and Fultz = 75 mil...

[Captain_Caveman]

Threaten to sign Hayward outright, then make it a sign-and-trade. This is pretty standard and would allow us to refrain from renouncing people like Olynyk and possibly Jerebko.

Amir on a Bogans type of 1-year guaranteed deal plus a guaranteed Zeller. They can have Rozier and Yabu. We keep Kelly.

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Jaylen
Horford/Crowder
Zizic/Olynyk

We take it in the face on the lux tax next year.

Don't they go over the cap in this scenario? Horford, Olynyk hold, Zizic, Crowder, Brown, IT, Smart, AB, and Fultz = 75 mil...

If we sign and trade for Hayward, rather than use cap room, not an issue. We are just capped at the apron. Considering that we'd have to dump Kelly to get the cap room, and probably Rozier and Yabu as well, why not just route Rozier and Yabu plus expiring deals to Utah and keep Kelly instead?

Someone else can do the math, but it's about like that.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Threaten to sign Hayward outright, then make it a sign-and-trade. This is pretty standard and would allow us to refrain from renouncing people like Olynyk and possibly Jerebko.

Amir on a Bogans type of 1-year guaranteed deal plus a guaranteed Zeller. They can have Rozier and Yabu. We keep Kelly.

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Jaylen
Horford/Crowder
Zizic/Olynyk

We take it in the face on the lux tax next year.

Don't they go over the cap in this scenario? Horford, Olynyk hold, Zizic, Crowder, Brown, IT, Smart, AB, and Fultz = 75 mil...

If we sign and trade for Hayward, rather than use cap room, not an issue. We are just capped at the apron. Considering that we'd have to dump Kelly to get the cap room, and probably Rozier and Yabu as well, why not just route Rozier and Yabu plus expiring deals to Utah and keep Kelly instead?

Someone else can do the math, but it's about like that.

Didn't realize they could do this. Payroll would be nuts the next year though, so can't see AB on the 2017-2018 squad.

[wfiles]

Why would Hayward sign with Boston if Boston won't go all in. So he signs for less money with Boston and waste his prime years waiting for Brown, Fultz, 18 Bkn pick to develop and getting beat down by LeBron year after year. Hayward should wait for Boston to trade Fultz or 18 Bkn pick for Butler or George first before considering signing with them. If they don't then he's better off signing for more money and building with Utah.

[ViperGTS]

Why would Hayward sign with Boston if Boston won't go all in. So he signs for less money with Boston and waste his prime years waiting for Brown, Fultz, 18 Bkn pick to develop and getting beat down by LeBron year after year. Hayward should wait for Boston to trade Fultz or 18 Bkn pick for Butler or George first before considering signing with them. If they don't then he's better off signing for more money and building with Utah.

Because, contrary to pillar belief, Brown and Fultz will be studs far quicker than the norm due to the environment they are being grown up in. The Cs will be right back where they are now next season with an even better roster. So there is plenty for him to look forward to.

[wfiles]

Why would Hayward sign with Boston if Boston won't go all in. So he signs for less money with Boston and waste his prime years waiting for Brown, Fultz, 18 Bkn pick to develop and getting beat down by LeBron year after year. Hayward should wait for Boston to trade Fultz or 18 Bkn pick for Butler or George first before considering signing with them. If they don't then he's better off signing for more money and building with Utah.

Because, contrary to pillar belief, Brown and Fultz will be studs far quicker than the norm due to the environment they are being grown up in. The Cs will be right back where they are now next season with an even better roster. So there is plenty for him to look forward to.

So you think with Hayward and the quick development of Brown and Fultz can beat LeBron in the next 2 to 3 years? I don't think so. Hayward with Jimmy Butler or Paul George has a better chance of beating LeBron.

[ViperGTS]

Why would Hayward sign with Boston if Boston won't go all in. So he signs for less money with Boston and waste his prime years waiting for Brown, Fultz, 18 Bkn pick to develop and getting beat down by LeBron year after year. Hayward should wait for Boston to trade Fultz or 18 Bkn pick for Butler or George first before considering signing with them. If they don't then he's better off signing for more money and building with Utah.

Because, contrary to pillar belief, Brown and Fultz will be studs far quicker than the norm due to the environment they are being grown up in. The Cs will be right back where they are now next season with an even better roster. So there is plenty for him to look forward to.

So you think with Hayward and the quick development of Brown and Fultz can beat LeBron in the next 2 to 3 years? I don't think so. Hayward with Jimmy Butler or Paul George has a better chance of beating LeBron.

Yes I do. Brown will be able to defend Bron Bron 1 v 1 and Fultz should be able to depants Irving and Hayward will clean up. Only people who wish to see the Cs mortgage their future and fail would advocate for JB or PG.

[Leprechaun18]

If Jaylen keeps developing, we will not need Hayward. Could Hayward defend lebron as well as Jaylen did?

[Fencer reregistered]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865680311/Jazz-GM-Lindsey-talks-about-priority-of-keeping-Hayward-Hill.html

How Utah's GM phrases his optimism about the future.

HT: WT (Hat-Tip: WireTap)