Jimmy Butler Trade - Why and Ideas

[No-Man]

I think the most likely scenario isnt in the poll, the Denver Nuggets, of the ones up there, Philly won't go there, Jimmy is a ball dominant guy and they want to feature Simmons, plus they are too apart age wise, Boston similarly can't really fit Jimmy in their game style, he likes to "feel" the rock, get touches, take his time, and they are focused on Hayward 1st and foremost, Atlanta has no assets, the Lakers should know better than burning the little assets they have, same with Phoenix, both teams are way too far from competing and won't even sniff the Playoffs even with Jimmy.

That leaves you the Wolves, but what are they gonna trade? nº7, Dunn and ? they need LaVine to have some sort of shooting, difficult to see Wiggins and Jimmy matching with their style of play also.

I think the team that has both assets and interest is Denver, they aren't gonna include Jokic or Murray, but they still have a nice group of young guys (Juancho, Beasley, Mudiay,...) cheap vets (Barton, Chandler) and the 13th pick in this year draft and a bunch of future draft assets.
I know it doesnt sound as sexy as a top3 pick or a premium prospect, but that won't on the table in a trade for Jimmy most likely, unless the Suns' owner loses his mind, which well, could always happen I guess.

[DuckIII]

Not only should Ainge not trade his pick(s) he might as well start trading the good players he does have for even more picks.

Even if Fultz becomes a superstar, he's going to need a lot more help that what's on this Celtics team, or what they'll be in 3-4 years.

But we on the other hand have the assets to build around Butler?

[Ralphb07]

I think the most likely scenario isnt in the poll, the Denver Nuggets, of the ones up there, Philly won't go there, Jimmy is a ball dominant guy and they want to feature Simmons, plus they are too apart age wise, Boston similarly can't really fit Jimmy in their game style, he likes to "feel" the rock, get touches, take his time, and they are focused on Hayward 1st and foremost, Atlanta has no assets, the Lakers should know better than burning the little assets they have, same with Phoenix, both teams are way too far from competing and won't even sniff the Playoffs even with Jimmy.

That leaves you the Wolves, but what are they gonna trade? nº7, Dunn and ? they need LaVine to have some sort of shooting, difficult to see Wiggins and Jimmy matching with their style of play also.

I think the team that has both assets and interest is Denver, they aren't gonna include Jokic or Murray, but they still have a nice group of young guys (Juancho, Beasley, Mudiay,...) cheap vets (Barton, Chandler) and the 13th pick in this year draft and a bunch of future draft assets.
I know it doesnt sound as sexy as a top3 pick or a premium prospect, but that won't on the table in a trade for Jimmy most likely, unless the Suns' owner loses his mind, which well, could always happen I guess.

If Denver didn't offer Murray they aren't getting Jimmy. Obviously you Jokic is not off the table but you don't try and acquire a top 10-15 guy and say your top two assets are off the table.

[TheStig]

Not only should Ainge not trade his pick(s) he might as well start trading the good players he does have for even more picks.

Even if Fultz becomes a superstar, he's going to need a lot more help that what's on this Celtics team, or what they'll be in 3-4 years.

I don't think he's going to trade the pick. I think they go hard after Hayward and get him.

But I can't see them blowing up an ECF team when they will have Brown, #1 this year and a lotto pick next year from the nets. Add in Hayward and thats a lot of young talent. In addition to the Gizz and CLips picks they own.

[Ralphb07]

Not only should Ainge not trade his pick(s) he might as well start trading the good players he does have for even more picks.

Even if Fultz becomes a superstar, he's going to need a lot more help that what's on this Celtics team, or what they'll be in 3-4 years.

I don't think he's going to trade the pick. I think they go hard after Hayward and get him.

But I can't see them blowing up an ECF team when they will have Brown, #1 this year and a lotto pick next year from the nets. Add in Hayward and thats a lot of young talent. In addition to the Gizz and CLips picks they own.

He's not going to blow it up but this current team is a front of sorts for them. They have no attention to go for it with this group and mortgage off the assets and I don't blame him. That team will be built around Fultz and all moves will have that in mind.

[NADROJ]

Take the best offer, get bad, start over.

Yes, I'm biased.

But, as far as I'm concerned, there will not be a better post than this between it's origin and June 22nd.

[No-Man]

I think the most likely scenario isnt in the poll, the Denver Nuggets, of the ones up there, Philly won't go there, Jimmy is a ball dominant guy and they want to feature Simmons, plus they are too apart age wise, Boston similarly can't really fit Jimmy in their game style, he likes to "feel" the rock, get touches, take his time, and they are focused on Hayward 1st and foremost, Atlanta has no assets, the Lakers should know better than burning the little assets they have, same with Phoenix, both teams are way too far from competing and won't even sniff the Playoffs even with Jimmy.

That leaves you the Wolves, but what are they gonna trade? nº7, Dunn and ? they need LaVine to have some sort of shooting, difficult to see Wiggins and Jimmy matching with their style of play also.

I think the team that has both assets and interest is Denver, they aren't gonna include Jokic or Murray, but they still have a nice group of young guys (Juancho, Beasley, Mudiay,...) cheap vets (Barton, Chandler) and the 13th pick in this year draft and a bunch of future draft assets.
I know it doesnt sound as sexy as a top3 pick or a premium prospect, but that won't on the table in a trade for Jimmy most likely, unless the Suns' owner loses his mind, which well, could always happen I guess.

If Denver didn't offer Murray they aren't getting Jimmy. Obviously you Jokic is not off the table but you don't try and acquire a top 10-15 guy and say your top two assets are off the table.

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

[Bomba Navarro]

I think the most likely scenario isnt in the poll, the Denver Nuggets, of the ones up there, Philly won't go there, Jimmy is a ball dominant guy and they want to feature Simmons, plus they are too apart age wise, Boston similarly can't really fit Jimmy in their game style, he likes to "feel" the rock, get touches, take his time, and they are focused on Hayward 1st and foremost, Atlanta has no assets, the Lakers should know better than burning the little assets they have, same with Phoenix, both teams are way too far from competing and won't even sniff the Playoffs even with Jimmy.

That leaves you the Wolves, but what are they gonna trade? nº7, Dunn and ? they need LaVine to have some sort of shooting, difficult to see Wiggins and Jimmy matching with their style of play also.

I think the team that has both assets and interest is Denver, they aren't gonna include Jokic or Murray, but they still have a nice group of young guys (Juancho, Beasley, Mudiay,...) cheap vets (Barton, Chandler) and the 13th pick in this year draft and a bunch of future draft assets.
I know it doesnt sound as sexy as a top3 pick or a premium prospect, but that won't on the table in a trade for Jimmy most likely, unless the Suns' owner loses his mind, which well, could always happen I guess.

If Denver didn't offer Murray they aren't getting Jimmy. Obviously you Jokic is not off the table but you don't try and acquire a top 10-15 guy and say your top two assets are off the table.

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

Those are all laughable offers. If GarPax take that then they are bigger idiots than everybody think they are.

[No-Man]

If Denver didn't offer Murray they aren't getting Jimmy. Obviously you Jokic is not off the table but you don't try and acquire a top 10-15 guy and say your top two assets are off the table.

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

Those are all laughable offers. If GarPax take that then they are bigger idiots than everybody think they are.

This all depends on the market that is out there, I am honestly not sure there are gonna be a ton of teams going after Jimmy, he isnt the easiest player to fit esp if you already got a ball-dominant star.

[Bomba Navarro]

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

Those are all laughable offers. If GarPax take that then they are bigger idiots than everybody think they are.

This all depends on the market that is out there, I am honestly not sure there are gonna be a ton of teams going after Jimmy, he isnt the easiest player to fit esp if you already got a ball-dominant star.

I find it funny that people around here forget where Butler comes from, and the fact that he was an All Star three years ago playing on a team where he wasn't pounding the rock every possession. But hey, let's just forget all about that and assume he can't be effective off the ball again just because he's been mostly an on-ball player on teams that needed him to have the ball to be somewhat effective...

Those Denver offers you are suggesting are a joke. Period.

Gesendet von meinem ALE-L21 mit Tapatalk

[BR0D1E86]

I think the most likely scenario isnt in the poll, the Denver Nuggets, of the ones up there, Philly won't go there, Jimmy is a ball dominant guy and they want to feature Simmons, plus they are too apart age wise, Boston similarly can't really fit Jimmy in their game style, he likes to "feel" the rock, get touches, take his time, and they are focused on Hayward 1st and foremost, Atlanta has no assets, the Lakers should know better than burning the little assets they have, same with Phoenix, both teams are way too far from competing and won't even sniff the Playoffs even with Jimmy.

That leaves you the Wolves, but what are they gonna trade? nº7, Dunn and ? they need LaVine to have some sort of shooting, difficult to see Wiggins and Jimmy matching with their style of play also.

I think the team that has both assets and interest is Denver, they aren't gonna include Jokic or Murray, but they still have a nice group of young guys (Juancho, Beasley, Mudiay,...) cheap vets (Barton, Chandler) and the 13th pick in this year draft and a bunch of future draft assets.
I know it doesnt sound as sexy as a top3 pick or a premium prospect, but that won't on the table in a trade for Jimmy most likely, unless the Suns' owner loses his mind, which well, could always happen I guess.

If Denver didn't offer Murray they aren't getting Jimmy. Obviously you Jokic is not off the table but you don't try and acquire a top 10-15 guy and say your top two assets are off the table.

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

If that's their best offer they very clearly don't want him. That's scarcely better than letting him walk in two years.

[No-Man]

Those are all laughable offers. If GarPax take that then they are bigger idiots than everybody think they are.

This all depends on the market that is out there, I am honestly not sure there are gonna be a ton of teams going after Jimmy, he isnt the easiest player to fit esp if you already got a ball-dominant star.

I find it funny that people around here forget where Butler comes from, and the fact that he was an All Star three years ago playing on a team where he wasn't pounding the rock every possession. But hey, let's assume he can't be effective off the ball just because he's been mostly an on-ball players on teams that needed him to have the ball to be somewhat effective...

Those Denver offers you are suggesting are a joke. Period.

Gesendet von meinem ALE-L21 mit Tapatalk

I am sure he can fit to a degree and change his stripes, but he is still a below avg shooter if you wanna play him off-ball often.

Plus he is getting up in age and his next contract isn't gonna be a good one, like the clock is ticking for the Bulls to either build with him or move on from him, I get that you gotta wait to a degree for the best available offer, but at one point if you don't want to build around him you gain something just by moving him sooner rather than later even if the offer isn't ideal.

[No-Man]

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

If that's their best offer they very clearly don't want him. That's scarcely better than letting him walk in two years.

I mean, it obv isnt, clearly better, getting potentially 3 guys in rookie deals and a 1st plus a guy that you can flip for more resources come the trade deadline in Chandler is much better than nothing.

it all depends on the timing and what's out there, I am just trying to be reasonable with the offer, I'd prefer that package from Denver much better than Wiggins for example, or Dunn+pick7+future 1st in 2021 (Wolves can't trade a 1st before).

[erlim]

I doubt Ball makes much of an impact as a rookie on their record. He might get them a couple more wins. Lakers will likely be a lotto pick again.

I think it's safe to assume they are going to land Paul George though.

Ball/Russell/PG13/Randall/ any c or pf

Is probably an 8th -5th seed.

If the Pacers aren't getting real value, then they'd likely keep him for the year and see if he can't make an all nba team so that they can give him the designated player max. I know ESPN is blasting he'll be traded but it doesn't necessarily make sense. George still has a good chance to make an all nba team and hasn't demanded out. The LA talk is just speculation at this point.

If I recall correctly, Paul George has been overtly outspoken about his desire to play for the Lakers and Lakers only. Indiana has very few bargaining chips when PG13's camp is making these kind of demands. They likely won't get much in return for PG13.

[TheStig]

I think it's safe to assume they are going to land Paul George though.

Ball/Russell/PG13/Randall/ any c or pf

Is probably an 8th -5th seed.

If the Pacers aren't getting real value, then they'd likely keep him for the year and see if he can't make an all nba team so that they can give him the designated player max. I know ESPN is blasting he'll be traded but it doesn't necessarily make sense. George still has a good chance to make an all nba team and hasn't demanded out. The LA talk is just speculation at this point.

If I recall correctly, Paul George has been overtly outspoken about his desire to play for the Lakers and Lakers only. Indiana has very few bargaining chips when PG13's camp is making these kind of demands. They likely won't get much in return for PG13.

I mean that's a rumor. PG13 and his agent didn't say anything?

[kodo]

Not only should Ainge not trade his pick(s) he might as well start trading the good players he does have for even more picks.

Even if Fultz becomes a superstar, he's going to need a lot more help that what's on this Celtics team, or what they'll be in 3-4 years.

I don't think he's going to trade the pick. I think they go hard after Hayward and get him.

But I can't see them blowing up an ECF team when they will have Brown, #1 this year and a lotto pick next year from the nets. Add in Hayward and thats a lot of young talent. In addition to the Gizz and CLips picks they own.

Agreed with what you guys both said.

If Ainge was brilliant, he'd blow up this #1 seeded EC team for more picks. But that's too bold of a move that even Ainge won't do, IMO.

But blowing up Boston would be the kind of move that actually replicates the Durant-Westbrook Thunder. Back in 05, the Sonics with Ray Allen & Rashard won 52 games, were the #3 overall WC seed, and had the #2 offense in the league only behind the 60 win Suns.

At that high point, the Seattle management said "not good enough" and started blowing it up, which led to the Durant pick in a couple of years.

There's a lot of talk about replicating the Thunder success by tanking, but no GM has actually done what the Sonics management did. They didn't start tanking when the team is already bad like the Sixers or Suns, that's a no brainer.

Sonics tanked when they were the #3 seed in the WC and #2 offense in the league. That's what separated them. Ainge could go down that path by trading in IT & Crowder & Bradley & Olynyk for more picks, but I don't think he could face the scrutiny. It would be worse than what Hinkie faced in Philly, who only got to tank for a few years before getting ousted.

[kodo]

I'm not sure why everyone keeps tying PHX into the discussion. Outside of Brandon Knight/Tyson Chandler/Eric Bledsloe (all of whom they've probably tried to trade), none of the players on the team are on the same timeline as Butler - 27.

I voted Sixers, but PHO is a good guess because their owner Sarver doesn't believe in tanking.

Phoenix isn't bad by design. Just a few years ago their offseason plan was to sign Lamarcus Aldridge and Tyson Chandler to join them with Bledsoe (who is 27 now) and compete. They got half of that done, getting Chandler. LMA said the Suns pitch was great, he would have joined them if the Spurs were not a factor. They traded away a high valuable Lakers pick to get Brandon Knight.

Similar to the Bulls, maybe everyone including the fans think PHO should be tanking, but there's only 1 opinion that matters, the owner.

“We went back and did a study (of) the last 24 years of all teams who went through what we call the tanking process — defined as really trying to get bad — and the average team took seven to eight years to get back into the playoffs,” he said. “So we didn’t really think that was a good option.

“There’s no guarantees you’re going to win the lottery. There’s no guarantees you’re going to draft the right people. You may end up with a bunch of young players but you still may not be good.”

“The idea was to try to have players who could be a part of the next (great) Suns team, not trying to intentionally get bad,” he explained.

Another more recent article about the Suns, overall they feel they are the verge of competing legitimately on the West:

https://arizonasports.com/story/1106646/phoenix-suns-putting-pieces-together-following-golden-state-oklahoma-city-models/

The Phoenix Suns believe they are close — a year or two, maybe three — to knocking down the wall that has separated them from the Western Conference playoffs for the past seven seasons, which is the longest drought in franchise history.

“Obviously, if any of our guys or some of our guys end up in the stratosphere of those MVP candidates, then we’ll have done well and they’ll have done well and that bodes well for the future,” he said.

“With the pieces that’s already up there and you add a draft pick and a few veterans, all of sudden you can have something promising. That’s what I saw when I declined trade offers and things like that because I felt like why go somewhere else and help some other players develop when I got my young brothers here that are right there in turning the corner.”

They think they're going to be extremely good...the words "MVP" came up...I don't think the Suns consider themselves to be out of the playoffs very long. Maybe other people would disagree, but that's irrelevant. What matters is what the Suns think of themselves.

[TheStig]

Not only should Ainge not trade his pick(s) he might as well start trading the good players he does have for even more picks.

Even if Fultz becomes a superstar, he's going to need a lot more help that what's on this Celtics team, or what they'll be in 3-4 years.

I don't think he's going to trade the pick. I think they go hard after Hayward and get him.

But I can't see them blowing up an ECF team when they will have Brown, #1 this year and a lotto pick next year from the nets. Add in Hayward and thats a lot of young talent. In addition to the Gizz and CLips picks they own.

Agreed with what you guys both said.

If Ainge was brilliant, he'd blow up this #1 seeded EC team for more picks. But that's too bold of a move that even Ainge won't do, IMO.

But blowing up Boston would be the kind of move that actually replicates the Durant-Westbrook Thunder. Back in 05, the Sonics with Ray Allen & Rashard won 52 games, were the #3 overall WC seed, and had the #2 offense in the league only behind the 60 win Suns.

At that high point, the Seattle management said "not good enough" and started blowing it up, which led to the Durant pick in a couple of years.

There's a lot of talk about replicating the Thunder success by tanking, but no GM has actually done what the Sonics management did. They didn't start tanking when the team is already bad like the Sixers or Suns, that's a no brainer.

Sonics tanked when they were the #3 seed in the WC and #2 offense in the league. That's what separated them. Ainge could go down that path by trading in IT & Crowder & Bradley & Olynyk for more picks, but I don't think he could face the scrutiny. It would be worse than what Hinkie faced in Philly, who only got to tank for a few years before getting ousted.

They didn't blow up the Sonics out of a not good enough attitude. The broke it up after 2 years of missing the playoffs after the 52 win team. They didn't tank. They still kept their top guys till they traded allen a couple of years later.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I said this in another thread, but the numbers in the OP are based on a 120M cap, and I don't why everyone keeps using them, because there have been lower projections for the cap. Here's why I said in the other thread:

"
I don't think these numbers are correct. They are based on a salary cap projection of $120M. That might be what the projection was at one point, but the NBA lowered the projections. The current projections, as stated here on RealGM are:

17-18: 101M
18-19: 102M
19-20: 107.1M

(Also, you seem to be using 5% raises for the Non-DPE Bird Max, when it should be 8% raises there too.)

So, based on the 107.1M figure:

DPE Contract:
$37,485,000/$40,483,800/$43,482,600/$46,481,400/$49,480,200 = $217,413,000
Non-DPE Bird Max:
$32,130,000/$34,700,000/$37,270,800/$39,481,200/$42,411,600 = $186,354,000
Other Team Max:
$32,130,000/$33,736,500/$35,343,000/$36,949,500 = $138,159,000
"

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I understand that, but I'd not offer Murray If I were Denver, max I'd go to would be something like;

Faried or Chander+Barton or Mudiay+Juancho or Harris+Beasley or 13th pick+DEN 2019 1st round pick lotto protected+MEM's 2017 2nd round pick or Petr Cornelie's right

for

Jimmy Butler

If that's their best offer they very clearly don't want him. That's scarcely better than letting him walk in two years.

I mean, it obv isnt, clearly better, getting potentially 3 guys in rookie deals and a 1st plus a guy that you can flip for more resources come the trade deadline in Chandler is much better than nothing.

it all depends on the timing and what's out there, I am just trying to be reasonable with the offer, I'd prefer that package from Denver much better than Wiggins for example, or Dunn+pick7+future 1st in 2021 (Wolves can't trade a 1st before).

The Bulls could never get away with making the kind of trade you're proposing. It just wouldn't wouldn't fly politically. If that's the best value they can get (and it's probably not) they'll stand pat and not lose a wink of sleep over it.