shakendfries wrote:I have a feeling this draft is gonna suck super hard for the Nets
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shakendfries wrote:I have a feeling this draft is gonna suck super hard for the Nets
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DarkXaero wrote:Actually I think they might take Jonathan Jeanne. From a physical standpoint, he's the "Giannis/Gobert" of this draft. And despite all his rawness, he's still super intriguing from a skill standpoint. On DraftExpress, he's currently mocked at #24, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him go significantly higher.twosevenstreet wrote:I think Milwaukee will take Giles
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/nba-combine-competitive-action-recap-day-two-5929/
This is their report of his combine performance and it's very positive.
Fischella wrote:I get that Diallo is athletic, but man, he can't shoot, can't dribble, what is he gonna bring on offense? unless he becomes the reincarnation of Tony Allen on defense, which I guess, anything is possible, I don't see what he does for you
Of all the shooting guard prospects in the 2017 class, Hamidou Diallo has as upside as anyone. At 6-foot-4, Diallo is a terrific athlete with impressive leaping ability. He moves his feet well laterally, has good length and plays hard, which all helps him on the defensive end. At this stage, Diallo is a streaky long-range shooter, but is certainly capable of hitting a streak of jumpers. He's good in space and makes play after play in transition.
Strengths
Aggressive Scorer
Athleticism
Attack Mode
Areas to Improve
3-Point Range
Ballhandling
Strength

CalamityX12 wrote:i appreciate the emphasis for athleticism and feel we are doing good on that area... but at some point we need a guy that can shoot the bloody ball... whether it be from 3, inside 2, confident tear drops etc..... need someone to be able to shoot once defenses clog the lane.
balance the team out.
Paradise wrote:Fischella wrote:I get that Diallo is athletic, but man, he can't shoot, can't dribble, what is he gonna bring on offense? unless he becomes the reincarnation of Tony Allen on defense, which I guess, anything is possible, I don't see what he does for you
He can't dribble? Nobody in this class has an elite handle so what's the point of trying to nitpick that?
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Fischella wrote:Paradise wrote:Fischella wrote:I get that Diallo is athletic, but man, he can't shoot, can't dribble, what is he gonna bring on offense? unless he becomes the reincarnation of Tony Allen on defense, which I guess, anything is possible, I don't see what he does for you
He can't dribble? Nobody in this class has an elite handle so what's the point of trying to nitpick that?
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as a wing you need any offensive skill to be playable, and there are guys with really good handles in this class, Dennis Smith Jr is elite for example.
Umm, Jeanne is actually skilled, especially for his size/age. He has a mid range jumper and likely a 3pt shot that he'll develop after a few years. He also averaged 2.9 turnovers a game in 27 mins, not 6 turnovers a game. That's not good but it's not as hyperbolic as you make it seem. No one's saying he'll be able to play against NBA competition right after being drafted. If he was ready for that, he'd be projected to go high lotto. But his two potential is immense because of his physical tools. He has added 20 lbs to his frame in the past year, and will continue to build on that. He also seems to be a smart kid and knows what parts of his game he has to work on.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Actually I think they might take Jonathan Jeanne. From a physical standpoint, he's the "Giannis/Gobert" of this draft. And despite all his rawness, he's still super intriguing from a skill standpoint. On DraftExpress, he's currently mocked at #24, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him go significantly higher.twosevenstreet wrote:I think Milwaukee will take Giles
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/nba-combine-competitive-action-recap-day-two-5929/
This is their report of his combine performance and it's very positive.
Kidd likes players who move the ball and are skilled even his bigs.... Jeane is the opposite of that and a complete turnover machine. like legit, without hyperbole, the worst ball handler ive ever seen in my life. one in every 3 or 4 passes, even basic stuff not contested is tipped away, way off target, or stolen.
he had something like 6 turnvers a game in 20ish minutes vs mediocure competition.
i think giles fits kid much better.... big and athletic, can switch defensively on everything, smart unselfish player...
but i dont think they go big. they need gaurds and wings who can create offense
DarkXaero wrote:Umm, Jeanne is actually skilled, especially for his size/age. He has a mid range jumper and likely a 3pt shot that he'll develop after a few years. He also averaged 2.9 turnovers a game in 27 mins, not 6 turnovers a game. That's not good but it's not as hyperbolic as you make it seem. No one's saying he'll be able to play against NBA competition right after being drafted. If he was ready for that, he'd be projected to go high lotto. But his two potential is immense because of his physical tools. He has added 20 lbs to his frame in the past year, and will continue to build on that. He also seems to be a smart kid and knows what parts of his game he has to work on.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Actually I think they might take Jonathan Jeanne. From a physical standpoint, he's the "Giannis/Gobert" of this draft. And despite all his rawness, he's still super intriguing from a skill standpoint. On DraftExpress, he's currently mocked at #24, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him go significantly higher.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/nba-combine-competitive-action-recap-day-two-5929/
This is their report of his combine performance and it's very positive.
Kidd likes players who move the ball and are skilled even his bigs.... Jeane is the opposite of that and a complete turnover machine. like legit, without hyperbole, the worst ball handler ive ever seen in my life. one in every 3 or 4 passes, even basic stuff not contested is tipped away, way off target, or stolen.
he had something like 6 turnvers a game in 20ish minutes vs mediocure competition.
i think giles fits kid much better.... big and athletic, can switch defensively on everything, smart unselfish player...
but i dont think they go big. they need gaurds and wings who can create offense
Prokorov wrote:Paradise wrote:The point of hiring Marks and Atkinson was for us to draft hidden talent and develop on their weaknesses. Wasn't that the point of almost every decision made in the last year? We hired KD's former shooting coach for a reason. Last time I checked, our issue wasn't offense. It was slow footed athletes and lack of talented defenders.
we took levert last year... a highly skilled high iq talented player.... i think we are looking for guys like that... i dont think its just find the best athlete and turn him into a basketball player.
i think they look for more levert types... good guys who defend, are athletic, have a solid skillset that can be built even further on. i look at dinwiddie and goodwin as other examples of that.
not sure if diallo fits that. all ive seen him do is dunk in a layup line in highlight videos. i trust their process.
Well, it's 2.9 turnovers so surely, either something changed or you just misjudged. Either way, you're wrong.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Umm, Jeanne is actually skilled, especially for his size/age. He has a mid range jumper and likely a 3pt shot that he'll develop after a few years. He also averaged 2.9 turnovers a game in 27 mins, not 6 turnovers a game. That's not good but it's not as hyperbolic as you make it seem. No one's saying he'll be able to play against NBA competition right after being drafted. If he was ready for that, he'd be projected to go high lotto. But his two potential is immense because of his physical tools. He has added 20 lbs to his frame in the past year, and will continue to build on that. He also seems to be a smart kid and knows what parts of his game he has to work on.Prokorov wrote:
Kidd likes players who move the ball and are skilled even his bigs.... Jeane is the opposite of that and a complete turnover machine. like legit, without hyperbole, the worst ball handler ive ever seen in my life. one in every 3 or 4 passes, even basic stuff not contested is tipped away, way off target, or stolen.
he had something like 6 turnvers a game in 20ish minutes vs mediocure competition.
i think giles fits kid much better.... big and athletic, can switch defensively on everything, smart unselfish player...
but i dont think they go big. they need gaurds and wings who can create offense
dude download his games... its insane how bad he is with the ball. like every 4th passe dis tipped off target or turned over. not sure how he got to 2.9 turnovers, he must have had a long stretch without one. cause he was at 5.8 like a month ago. i was all about the dude from highlights when that guy came in here and mentioned him. but watching his full games, he is terrible with the ball in his hands. i mean he is young so im sure you can correct t... but man, he needs to sort that out.
NyCeEvO wrote:1. I think the Nets need a real scorer more than they need more shooters.
There's a big difference between being a shooter and a scorer.
A lot of guys are shooters and most players regardless of their talent level can improve on that. Few players are good scorers and its hard to improve one's ability to score the ball at a proficient clip in myriad ways.
It's important to have good shooters in today's game but they are most effective when they have creators on the team who can get into the paint and draw double-teams and give them open shots. The guys who create and can finish are most lethal because if they can finish at will at the basket despite body contact, passing out to shooters makes them nearly unstoppable (hence why the Cavs are so successful).
If you don't have good creators, shooters might still shoot fairly well but theirs shots will be contested with regularity and they will be more prone to going cold because making contested 3s at a high rate is unsustainable.
The Nets were able to bomb their way to some wins this year when they were hot but when it wasn't working from 3, it was quite difficult.
The Raptors best scorer is a bad 3pt shooter, but his ability to get to the rim attracts double teams, tires out the defense, and frees up the shooters that surround him. This is why the Raptors didn't tank when Lowry missed the rest of the regular season after the ASB.
Obtaining shooters isn't all that difficult, especially considering that shooting can be developed more easily than other skills.
DarkXaero wrote:Well, it's 2.9 turnovers so surely, either something changed or you just misjudged. Either way, you're wrong.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Umm, Jeanne is actually skilled, especially for his size/age. He has a mid range jumper and likely a 3pt shot that he'll develop after a few years. He also averaged 2.9 turnovers a game in 27 mins, not 6 turnovers a game. That's not good but it's not as hyperbolic as you make it seem. No one's saying he'll be able to play against NBA competition right after being drafted. If he was ready for that, he'd be projected to go high lotto. But his two potential is immense because of his physical tools. He has added 20 lbs to his frame in the past year, and will continue to build on that. He also seems to be a smart kid and knows what parts of his game he has to work on.
dude download his games... its insane how bad he is with the ball. like every 4th passe dis tipped off target or turned over. not sure how he got to 2.9 turnovers, he must have had a long stretch without one. cause he was at 5.8 like a month ago. i was all about the dude from highlights when that guy came in here and mentioned him. but watching his full games, he is terrible with the ball in his hands. i mean he is young so im sure you can correct t... but man, he needs to sort that out.


Actually I just checked his career stats, his turnovers per game were never as high as you were saying. Also other sources put his turnovers even lower than the 2.9 number, so PER 36 will probably come around to ~3 TOPG. Which isn't good but it's half as bad as you were pointing it out to be, and nothing that's overly concerning.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Well, it's 2.9 turnovers so surely, either something changed or you just misjudged. Either way, you're wrong.Prokorov wrote:
dude download his games... its insane how bad he is with the ball. like every 4th passe dis tipped off target or turned over. not sure how he got to 2.9 turnovers, he must have had a long stretch without one. cause he was at 5.8 like a month ago. i was all about the dude from highlights when that guy came in here and mentioned him. but watching his full games, he is terrible with the ball in his hands. i mean he is young so im sure you can correct t... but man, he needs to sort that out.
i dont think im wrong, i think im just out dated. either way 3 tunrovers a game for a big in less then 30 minutes is absolutely putrid.
DarkXaero wrote:Actually I just checked his career stats, his turnovers per game were never as high as you were saying. Also other sources put his turnovers even lower than the 2.9 number, so PER 36 will probably come around to ~3 TOPG. Which isn't good but it's half as bad as you were pointing it out to be, and nothing that's overly concerning.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Well, it's 2.9 turnovers so surely, either something changed or you just misjudged. Either way, you're wrong.
i dont think im wrong, i think im just out dated. either way 3 tunrovers a game for a big in less then 30 minutes is absolutely putrid.
That weaknesses video is from 2015 when he was probably 17. We're now in 2017 and he has improved since then. Once again, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be, and he's still very young who hasn't played against great competition. He's a big project but one that seems to be worth the gamble.Prokorov wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Actually I just checked his career stats, his turnovers per game were never as high as you were saying. Also other sources put his turnovers even lower than the 2.9 number, so PER 36 will probably come around to ~3 TOPG. Which isn't good but it's half as bad as you were pointing it out to be, and nothing that's overly concerning.Prokorov wrote:
i dont think im wrong, i think im just out dated. either way 3 tunrovers a game for a big in less then 30 minutes is absolutely putrid.
its not just bad its horrible. like as bad as it gets from a center. watch the games, watch draft scouting videos. its not just bad, when you watch its almost comedic
edit: watch the draft express weaknesses video. 5 turnovers a game according to that. i know its tough since he played in so many different leagues. but 5 in that league. 3 this year. its clearly a major weakness
but forget the stats. just watch his games! its undenyable
kamaze wrote:Prokorov wrote:Paradise wrote:The point of hiring Marks and Atkinson was for us to draft hidden talent and develop on their weaknesses. Wasn't that the point of almost every decision made in the last year? We hired KD's former shooting coach for a reason. Last time I checked, our issue wasn't offense. It was slow footed athletes and lack of talented defenders.
we took levert last year... a highly skilled high iq talented player.... i think we are looking for guys like that... i dont think its just find the best athlete and turn him into a basketball player.
i think they look for more levert types... good guys who defend, are athletic, have a solid skillset that can be built even further on. i look at dinwiddie and goodwin as other examples of that.
not sure if diallo fits that. all ive seen him do is dunk in a layup line in highlight videos. i trust their process.
LeVert is a high character player with play making skills and a good shot they hit a home run with him. Trajan Langdon said they look at character, if he's a hard worker just as much as talent.
“I think very important is character. I think a lot of times when you look at a player you just see them as a basketball player. They might play hard, have certain qualities: a good ball handler, a good passer, a good shooter, good defender, good rebounder, do they run fast run, do they jump high.
“But in the end what kind of character, what kind of person are they? Are they willing to commit to a team, what kind of team player are they? Are they a team-first player? Are they unselfish? Are they a hard worker? Are they coachable?... I think these qualities as a player are just as important as their qualities as an actual basketball player, their skillsets. So to get those things ... you do have to get some ‘intel’ to understand who that person is, where do they come from, where they raised, who are their parents, who are their friends ... It is not always easy to understand, easy to get.
Weaknesses: LeVert does have some glaring weaknesses and the one that sticks out immediately is lack of strength ... He needs to put on weight so he can’t be bullied by bigger opponents and to improve his finishing at the rim ... Because of this he tends to settle for midrange jumpers where he struggles mightily, shooting under 30% between the paint and 3 pt line last season ... While he appears to show some playmaking ability he struggles in the half court to set up his teammates consistently ... Despite his athletic tools he’s an inconsistent defender due to technique, a tendency to jump passing lanes and his aforementioned lack of strength …
"I like Caris," the first scout said. "To me, he's a value guy who a lot of teams are sleeping on. I look at some of his games earlier this year, look at his numbers, look at his size, why can't he do what Allen Crabbe is doing right now? Plus? He's a better ball-handler. Probably a better athlete or similar. I certainly think Caris LeVert can do what Allen Crabbe is doing right now."
If Crabbe is the baseline for a healthy LeVert, most teams would take that, particularly in a second-round pick. Crabbe averaged 10.3 points per game and shot 39.3 percent from deep this past season coming off the bench for the Portland Trail Blazers.
DarkXaero wrote:That weaknesses video is from 2015 when he was probably 17. We're now in 2017 and he has improved since then. Once again, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be, and he's still very young who hasn't played against great competition. He's a big project but one that seems to be worth the gamble.
JONATHAN JEANNE, INTERNATIONAL, CENTER, NANCY
14 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 steals, 7-9 2P, 26 minutes
Arguably the biggest winner of any 2017 NBA Combine participant, Jonathan Jeanne finished off the event in style, with a strong 14 point, 9 rebound, 3 block performance. Caught between a rock and a hard place due to the politics of the sneaker company events, Jeanne took a major leap of faith flying all the way over from France despite his team being in the midst of their season, and was rewarded for his efforts with an impactful few days. Despite being one of the youngest players to compete at the five on five, Jeanne showed a level of craftiness and budding skill that is extremely intriguing considering his youth (19 years old) and physical tools. He measured 7'2 in shoes, with a 7'6 ½ wingspan and 9'5 ½ standing reach that put him in elite company relative to NBA players, and is also highly fluid and mobile on top of that. While still painfully thin at just 207 pounds, Jeanne has added 20 pounds to his frame in the past year, and will undoubtedly continue to fill out in time. Jeanne did a great job all Combine long of setting screens and rolling to the basket. Despite not having much bulk, he has great timing and knows how to use his body to create space and give his guards the right angle to penetrate and deliver the ball around the rim. His freakish length gives him the ability to finish around the basket without barely needing to jump, as evidenced by the 71% he shot from 2-point range in Chicago. He has reliable hands, strong footwork, and excellent body control maneuvering around the paint, to go along with soft touch and the ability to use both hands around the basket. He ran the floor hard both days, made some interesting passes, and even knocked down a handful of mid-range jumpers, including one impressive pull-up, demonstrating a much higher level of skill than you typically see from a 19-year old 7-footer. Defensively, Jeanne doesn't really know what he's doing, but was extremely effective nevertheless by virtue of his mobility and freakish reach, changing everything around the basket in rim-protection situations, and being impossible to shoot over in the post. He struggles to hold his ground at times versus older players, and posted a sky high ten fouls in 47 minutes of total action, something that will likely always be an issue until his frame continues to fill out. Jeanne is likely a few years away from being able to hold his own effectively at the NBA level, but showed quite a bit of talent that makes him a prospect worth investing in long-term. He was having an up and down season up until this point in France, and was bafflingly snubbed from an invite to the Nike Hoop Summit, but was able to make up plenty of ground in just two days in Chicago. NBA scouts were disappointed to learn that the adidas EuroCamp had elected not to invite him to their camp for political reasons, but Jeanne probably doesn't need to show himself against the late second round and undrafted types they will choose to bring in now. The fact that he was willing to put himself out there and show exactly where he stands against some of the best players college basketball has to offer was duly noted by NBA executives, and he will very likely be rewarded for it on draft night. Jeanne will be staying in the US now for the next six weeks or so, and will be a popular figure for teams to get a more extended look at on the private workout circuit.