Jimmy Butler Trade - Why and Ideas

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Philly won't go there, Jimmy is a ball dominant guy and they want to feature Simmons, plus they are too apart age wise.

Disagree about Philly.

For one, it's easy to forget Saric and Embiid turn 24 next season. They're a lot closer to their physical primes than most rookies.

Secondly, Embiid's injury history is a great reason balance the present with the future. If they can be good now they should probably try.

Third, Colangelo was brought in with a mandate to get good fast. Or at least more quickly than the trajectory they're currently on.

I'm guessing they'll be game to make a move. Maybe the offer they float isnt enough to sway GarPax, but I'll be surprised if they don't engage in talks around the #3 pick.

[erlim]

If the Pacers aren't getting real value, then they'd likely keep him for the year and see if he can't make an all nba team so that they can give him the designated player max. I know ESPN is blasting he'll be traded but it doesn't necessarily make sense. George still has a good chance to make an all nba team and hasn't demanded out. The LA talk is just speculation at this point.

If I recall correctly, Paul George has been overtly outspoken about his desire to play for the Lakers and Lakers only. Indiana has very few bargaining chips when PG13's camp is making these kind of demands. They likely won't get much in return for PG13.

I mean that's a rumor. PG13 and his agent didn't say anything?

http://www.basketballforever.com/2017/05/21/paul-george-asked-hes-going-lakers-looking-like-lock/

When asked point blank about joining the lakers he starts giggling like a mischievous child.

[TheStig]

If I recall correctly, Paul George has been overtly outspoken about his desire to play for the Lakers and Lakers only. Indiana has very few bargaining chips when PG13's camp is making these kind of demands. They likely won't get much in return for PG13.

I mean that's a rumor. PG13 and his agent didn't say anything?

http://www.basketballforever.com/2017/05/21/paul-george-asked-hes-going-lakers-looking-like-lock/

When asked point blank about joining the lakers he starts giggling like a mischievous child.

I think he goes to LA if he can't get his 200+million. That being said if the trade return is minimum, then they probably keep him and see if he can't get on an all nba team. He wasn't far off this year.

[pb-ceo]

I mean if I wasn't going to contend for several years (IND CHI) why would you commit to these $200m+ deals? insanity brought about by a one time black swan wrinkle in the CBA at the time of a massive peak in league revenues?

[SHO'NUFF]

PG to the Lakers is good for the Bulls.

[Bandit King]

Why trade Jimmy because he's an allstar not a superstar! Bulls are going nowhere with Butler except 41-41.

Get some young talent and build around them. Trade him to philly for saric and the 3rd pick!

[gardenofsound]

From the Trades & Transactions board... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1566533

Too many moving parts and no real reason for the Kings to be in this. Try simplifying to the core pieces and see how close they are for each team:

Portland sends CJ, 15, 20 for Butler
Philly sends 3 and Okafor for CJ
Chicago sends Butler for 3, 15, 20, and Okafor

Who says yes/no? As a PDX fan I'd be willing to go that high for Butler (but just barely, and that's the absolute most I'd offer). I think the Bulls would actually be better off taking CJ themselves, but if they want to go really young and fully rebuild that's a nice package. And CJ is the perfect fit for Philly to play off of Simmons and Embiid but it depends whether they're ready to start pushing for the playoffs or want to continue accumulating assets.

As a Bulls fan, I want something a bit different.

POR Out: CJ, #15, 2022 1st (unprotected)
POR In: Jimmy Butler

PHI Out: Henderson, Bayless, #3, 2018 LAL 1st
PHI In: CJ

CHI Out: Butler
CHI In: #3, #15, 2018 LAL 1st, 2022 POR 1st, Bayless and Henderson (pure salary match filler)

Comes from the same place as the deal quoted, but the Bulls don't really want Okafor and would rather have the Lakers' 2018 pick. Bulls ask for Saric, then Luwawu (if denied on Saric), but eventually would settle if neither gets included.

Bulls ask for 2022 1st from Portland, because that's the first year after Lillard hits UFA, and he may not be a Blazer in the 2021-2022 season, so that pick could be more valuable then. Portland accepts that because they bank on being a pretty good team by then. It's a gamble on both sides.

Bulls shoot for Ike and OG with 15 and 16. #3 is dependent on whether Ball gets picked by LA, but assuming he is, I'm really not sure who the Bulls pick in that slot. Tatum, Fox, and Jackson all have serious upside but also have their flaws.

[bad knees]

From the Trades & Transactions board... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1566533

Too many moving parts and no real reason for the Kings to be in this. Try simplifying to the core pieces and see how close they are for each team:

Portland sends CJ, 15, 20 for Butler
Philly sends 3 and Okafor for CJ
Chicago sends Butler for 3, 15, 20, and Okafor

Who says yes/no? As a PDX fan I'd be willing to go that high for Butler (but just barely, and that's the absolute most I'd offer). I think the Bulls would actually be better off taking CJ themselves, but if they want to go really young and fully rebuild that's a nice package. And CJ is the perfect fit for Philly to play off of Simmons and Embiid but it depends whether they're ready to start pushing for the playoffs or want to continue accumulating assets.

As a Bulls fan, I want something a bit different.

POR Out: CJ, #15, 2022 1st (unprotected)
POR In: Jimmy Butler

PHI Out: Henderson, Bayless, #3, 2018 LAL 1st
PHI In: CJ

CHI Out: Butler
CHI In: #3, #15, 2018 LAL 1st, 2022 POR 1st, Bayless and Henderson (pure salary match filler)

Comes from the same place as the deal quoted, but the Bulls don't really want Okafor and would rather have the Lakers' 2018 pick. Bulls ask for Saric, then Luwawu (if denied on Saric), but eventually would settle if neither gets included.

Bulls ask for 2022 1st from Portland, because that's the first year after Lillard hits UFA, and he may not be a Blazer in the 2021-2022 season, so that pick could be more valuable then. Portland accepts that because they bank on being a pretty good team by then. It's a gamble on both sides.

Bulls shoot for Ike and OG with 15 and 16. #3 is dependent on whether Ball gets picked by LA, but assuming he is, I'm really not sure who the Bulls pick in that slot. Tatum, Fox, and Jackson all have serious upside but also have their flaws.

I am not interested in POR's 2022 pick. That's five years away! Also agree that Bulls have no interest in Okafor. I suggest:

POR sends CJ, 15, 20 and 26 for Jimmy and Cam Payne

PHI sends 3, 2019 Sacto 1st, 36, 39, Nets 2d round pick 2018, Sacto 2d round pick 2019 for CJ

CHI sends Butler and Payne for 3, 15, 20, 26, 36, 39, 2018 LAL 1st, Nets 2d round pick 2018, Sacto 2d round pick 2019

PHI has a slew of second round picks so they can easily add a bunch to this deal, especially because it allows them to keep Saric and the LAL 2018 1st.

Bulls take:

3: Fox
Trade 15 and Grant for right to take Mitchell at 12
Trade 16 and 26 for right to take OG at 13
20: Jeanne
36: Frank Jackson
38: Ojeyele
39: Bolden

[heir_jordan22]

I think the timberwolves would be the best trade partner. Lavine has gone from 10 to 14 to 19 ppg in three years. Kris Dunn is an excellent prospect and the #7 pick would allow us to choose between Markkanen and Collins.

If we cut Rondo, trade Butler, and Wade walks, this would easily be the best scenario.

Two explosive guards, one already a rising star scorer and draft an athletic and skilled big.

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[Repeat 3-peat]

If Philly offers #3, 2018 LAL pick, Saric. That's a deal truly worth considering.

Could walk away with Jackson(#3), Mitchell/Patton(#16)
2018: two top 5 picks. Doncic/Porter/Bamba are the top 3 prospects.

[GimmeDat]

If Philly offers #3, 2018 LAL pick, Saric. That's a deal truly worth considering.

Could walk away with Jackson(#3), Mitchell/Patton(#16)
2018: two top 5 picks. Doncic/Porter/Bamba are the top 3 prospects.

If 3 and the LA pick are on the table, you just take that happily, I think. Expecting Saric on top of that is a bit optimistic.

[bad knees]

POR sends CJ, 15, 20 and 26 for Butler and Jerami Grant

PHI sends 3, 36, 39 and 2018 Nets 2d for CJ

CHI sends Butler and Grant for 3, 15, 20, 26, 36, 39, Nets 2018 2d

Bulls pick:

3 Fox
15 Leonard
16 OG
20 Jeanne
26 Frank Jackson
36 Bryant
38 Ojeyele
39 Iwindu or Bolden

POR consolidates and upgrades to Jimmy, plus they get a backup PG on a rookie deal. PHI gets the shooter they covet for not much more than the 3 - they get to keep Saric, LAL 2018 1st and 2018 SAC 1st. Bulls blow it up. We get only one lottery pick, but we get a bunch of picks in a super deep draft. Finally get young and athletic - everybody shoots and plays D.


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[Ralphb07]

I don't see the Bulls wanting all the assets in one draft. They would want them spread out. Also are there reports that Portland even wants to deal CJ?

[bad knees]

The Bulls would surely like to get multiple lotto picks in different years. And if Philly wants to give us the 3, the 2018 LAL 1st and the 2019 Sacto 1st, that would be great. But I doubt that is happening. The above deal allows Philly to solve their shooting need without using all of their assets. Also, CJ is closer in age to their core.

As for POR, there are no reports about them actively seeking to trade CJ, but there is concern that he overlaps too much with Lilliard, and Jimmy would be a clear upgrade for them, especially on the defensive end. And they are looking to trade their picks because they have no room on their roster for all three.

For the Bulls, it's not completely optimal, but if there is a year when picks in the 20's and 30's have value, it's this year's draft.


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[rowseyna]

I'm trying to think out a trade with the Lakers. I want to know how everyone would feel about each of the following possibilities. In each case, the Bulls ship out Butler and #38.

Which haul do you prefer and which haul do you believe to be most realistic?

Russell, Ingram, #28, and Deng
Russell, Randle, #28, and Deng
#2, Ingram, #28, and Deng
#2, Randle, #28, and Deng

The way I figure it, there's no way LA's parting with both Russell and #2. They need a PG so they're keeping one of those. Do you think they'd rather have Russell or Ball? Would you rather have Russell or Ball? Would you still be in favor of a trade getting whichever of those two you want less?

The next part is the Ingram/Randle inclusion. I feel the Bulls need another stellar prospect beyond Russell or #2. I'm feel confident that the Bulls would rather receive Ingram and that the Lakers would rather offer Randle. Would anyone here rather have Randle over Ingram? Would you still be in favor of one of the above trades assuming we have to take Randle because LA won't part with Ingram?

[gardenofsound]

From the Trades & Transactions board... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1566533

Too many moving parts and no real reason for the Kings to be in this. Try simplifying to the core pieces and see how close they are for each team:

Portland sends CJ, 15, 20 for Butler
Philly sends 3 and Okafor for CJ
Chicago sends Butler for 3, 15, 20, and Okafor

Who says yes/no? As a PDX fan I'd be willing to go that high for Butler (but just barely, and that's the absolute most I'd offer). I think the Bulls would actually be better off taking CJ themselves, but if they want to go really young and fully rebuild that's a nice package. And CJ is the perfect fit for Philly to play off of Simmons and Embiid but it depends whether they're ready to start pushing for the playoffs or want to continue accumulating assets.

As a Bulls fan, I want something a bit different.

POR Out: CJ, #15, 2022 1st (unprotected)
POR In: Jimmy Butler

PHI Out: Henderson, Bayless, #3, 2018 LAL 1st
PHI In: CJ

CHI Out: Butler
CHI In: #3, #15, 2018 LAL 1st, 2022 POR 1st, Bayless and Henderson (pure salary match filler)

Comes from the same place as the deal quoted, but the Bulls don't really want Okafor and would rather have the Lakers' 2018 pick. Bulls ask for Saric, then Luwawu (if denied on Saric), but eventually would settle if neither gets included.

Bulls ask for 2022 1st from Portland, because that's the first year after Lillard hits UFA, and he may not be a Blazer in the 2021-2022 season, so that pick could be more valuable then. Portland accepts that because they bank on being a pretty good team by then. It's a gamble on both sides.

Bulls shoot for Ike and OG with 15 and 16. #3 is dependent on whether Ball gets picked by LA, but assuming he is, I'm really not sure who the Bulls pick in that slot. Tatum, Fox, and Jackson all have serious upside but also have their flaws.

I am not interested in POR's 2022 pick. That's five years away! Also agree that Bulls have no interest in Okafor. I suggest:

POR sends CJ, 15, 20 and 26 for Jimmy and Cam Payne

PHI sends 3, 2019 Sacto 1st, 36, 39, Nets 2d round pick 2018, Sacto 2d round pick 2019 for CJ

CHI sends Butler and Payne for 3, 15, 20, 26, 36, 39, 2018 LAL 1st, Nets 2d round pick 2018, Sacto 2d round pick 2019

PHI has a slew of second round picks so they can easily add a bunch to this deal, especially because it allows them to keep Saric and the LAL 2018 1st.

Bulls take:

3: Fox
Trade 15 and Grant for right to take Mitchell at 12
Trade 16 and 26 for right to take OG at 13
20: Jeanne
36: Frank Jackson
38: Ojeyele
39: Bolden

The reason I want a future pick like that is because, hopefully by then, the Bulls are starting to get good again. That pick could become a good trade chip for bringing in someone who might push the team to the next echelon. It's the same gamble Boston took with Brooklyn that has paid off this year, and will again next year. I think having more than 3 picks in one first round (plus second rounders, to boot) is dangerous to all of those players' development.

That 2022 Portland pick could very well be a lotto pick. Butler and/or Lillard may no longer be on that squad, and if they are, they may be in a bad cap situation with both of them on huge deals. The supporting cast would probably not be too great.

Six rookies in one class is going to create major headaches for the coaches, who still have sophomores and 3rd year players they want to try and develop, also. Having future picks are also easier to trade than mid-round draftees unless they really pan out well.

[Ice Man]

Trade him to philly for saric and the 3rd pick!

If those guys turn out well, we could be a .500 team by 2020. Should that excite me?

[gardenofsound]

Trade him to philly for saric and the 3rd pick!

If those guys turn out well, we could be a .500 team by 2020. Should that excite me?

Forgive me if you've said in another post, but are you against blowing the team up, or is it the particular return mentioned in Bandit King's post that you're not a fan of?

We're a .500 team now, and likely to be one again next year if no changes. The 2018 offseason doesn't promise much, if anything, and the 2019 offseason will be when Butler gets paid or walks away... with not much else to look forward to on the horizon. Should that excite you?

The 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 Bulls were both .500 teams, but at least there was a clear direction they were going in with a group of young players in Noah, Rose, Gibson, Deng, etc growing into a really solid core. That core delivered two straight 1 seeds starting the following season and took the team to the Eastern Conference Finals. The 2012 team is still a "who knows" year, but at least there was hope that they could actually win it all.

Right now, not one single player is showing the type of promise the aforementioned four were showing by the 2009-2010 season.

I'd be more excited about building a core of players that can take the team well beyond where they are now given 4-6 years of drafting and development. If nothing else, those Baby Bulls teams were exciting to watch, particularly once Ben Wallace was traded away.

[Minalt]

From the Trades & Transactions board... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1566533

Too many moving parts and no real reason for the Kings to be in this. Try simplifying to the core pieces and see how close they are for each team:

Portland sends CJ, 15, 20 for Butler
Philly sends 3 and Okafor for CJ
Chicago sends Butler for 3, 15, 20, and Okafor

Who says yes/no? As a PDX fan I'd be willing to go that high for Butler (but just barely, and that's the absolute most I'd offer). I think the Bulls would actually be better off taking CJ themselves, but if they want to go really young and fully rebuild that's a nice package. And CJ is the perfect fit for Philly to play off of Simmons and Embiid but it depends whether they're ready to start pushing for the playoffs or want to continue accumulating assets.

As a Bulls fan, I want something a bit different.

POR Out: CJ, #15, 2022 1st (unprotected)
POR In: Jimmy Butler

PHI Out: Henderson, Bayless, #3, 2018 LAL 1st
PHI In: CJ

CHI Out: Butler
CHI In: #3, #15, 2018 LAL 1st, 2022 POR 1st, Bayless and Henderson (pure salary match filler)

Comes from the same place as the deal quoted, but the Bulls don't really want Okafor and would rather have the Lakers' 2018 pick. Bulls ask for Saric, then Luwawu (if denied on Saric), but eventually would settle if neither gets included.

Bulls ask for 2022 1st from Portland, because that's the first year after Lillard hits UFA, and he may not be a Blazer in the 2021-2022 season, so that pick could be more valuable then. Portland accepts that because they bank on being a pretty good team by then. It's a gamble on both sides.

Bulls shoot for Ike and OG with 15 and 16. #3 is dependent on whether Ball gets picked by LA, but assuming he is, I'm really not sure who the Bulls pick in that slot. Tatum, Fox, and Jackson all have serious upside but also have their flaws.

I am not interested in POR's 2022 pick. That's five years away! Also agree that Bulls have no interest in Okafor. I suggest:

POR sends CJ, 15, 20 and 26 for Jimmy and Cam Payne

PHI sends 3, 2019 Sacto 1st, 36, 39, Nets 2d round pick 2018, Sacto 2d round pick 2019 for CJ

CHI sends Butler and Payne for 3, 15, 20, 26, 36, 39, 2018 LAL 1st, Nets 2d round pick 2018, Sacto 2d round pick 2019

PHI has a slew of second round picks so they can easily add a bunch to this deal, especially because it allows them to keep Saric and the LAL 2018 1st.

Bulls take:

3: Fox
Trade 15 and Grant for right to take Mitchell at 12
Trade 16 and 26 for right to take OG at 13
20: Jeanne
36: Frank Jackson
38: Ojeyele
39: Bolden

You guys these types of trades just don't happen lol. Only trades like these are the early 90s Dallas Cowboys and never again. Why? Because teams learned it was stupid to trade all those picks.

The first few ones were more likely where it was just 3, 15, 20. With CJ going to 76ers. But even that one is a no go because CJ isn't worth the #3 pick to the 76ers.

More likely? Butler to Portland for 15, 20, 26, 2018 pick, and Allen Crabbe and filler to match salaries. Or cutoff a pick and add Nurkic into the deal. Then some of these picks are packaged for the Bulls to move up in the draft.

That is the type of trade you will see. None of these crazy 3 way trades with LAL picks, #3 picks, CJ going places, all this stuff. Teams do NOT want to stagnate.

Above trade gets the Bulls a **** load of picks decent young guy on a matching salary contract. Portland gets Jimmy B to match with Lillard and McCollum

[sco]

Trade him to philly for saric and the 3rd pick!

If those guys turn out well, we could be a .500 team by 2020. Should that excite me?

It should from the vantage point of - between now and then the Bulls can still tank and get one or two additional good draft picks while amassing young developing talent that won't win today, but will help in the future.