Markelle Fultz

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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#521 » by nolang1 » Sun May 21, 2017 5:02 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:His season actually wasn’t that amazing. Of the DX top 10 Fultz is only 8th in WS/48 and 6th in BPM, behind Jackson and Ball in both. Before considering impact concerns considering his team’s record.


So he was 6th in BPM and a minimum of seven months younger than any top 10 player with a higher BPM. Yeah, that actually does qualify as pretty amazing considering how many other players in the class are thought of as potential franchise cornerstones. Besides the obvious points about what each player was asked to do and the quality of his teammates, Fultz is 15 months younger than Jackson. If we wanted a more valid statistical comparison between Fultz and Jackson, Fultz would have needed to come back for his sophomore season in order to let us see what each player could do against NCAA competition at age 19. It doesn't take much imagination to project that Fultz with another year of experience and physical development would have been ridiculously overwhelming against college players and would have blown Jackson's numbers out of the water.

Not as good a 3pt shooting prospect as advertised. Lots of reason to think that when predicting 3pt one should look at 3pt volume and FT% in addition to NCAA 3P%. Since Fultz is 64% FT this makes him more of an average 3pt shooting prospects (projected at 34-35% on a site I recently read). Ingram last year was an example of a “great shooting prospect” who’s 60s FT% showed holes in that statement. If Fultz doesn’t shoot 3s well it also makes the IT issue bigger.


James Harden shot 34.7% on threes this season. Like Harden, Fultz is talented enough all-around that his becoming an excellent offensive player isn't entirely dependent on becoming as good a three-point shooter as Curry or Lillard. Ingram was in a similar boat: even after factoring in free-throw percentage, he could end up shooting a league-average percentage from 3 and still be an all-star if the other areas of his game developed as expected.

Analytics guys note that PPG is one of the worst stats to use to predict NBA success. Stats like steals, blocks, assists, rebounds, efficiency carry over better. So this is an issue for Fultz since points per game is the bread and butter of why he’s rated #1. He's pretty good in the other stats but not #1 level over Ball and Jackson


I honestly cannot recall anyone ever mentioning Fultz's points per game average by itself; if anything it was the combination of points, rebounds, assists, and three-point shooting. Fultz is a better prospect than Michael Beasley was considered to be, and Beasley had a much better freshman season from a scoring perspective. When it comes to other stats, Fultz's shot-blocking ability certainly stands out for a point guard, and he had a higher AST% and lower TO% than Ball despite playing with teammates who will never sniff the NBA.

Non elite athlete. “Yeah but it’ll be fine” was used to describe Evan Turner and D’Angelo Russell coming into the draft as well and it ended up being a huge concern. On the other hand players like Harden and Kyrie weren’t top level athletes either.


You can't discriminate between a good athlete and an average one? When people say "non elite athlete" they mean "not Wall, Westbrook, or healthy Derrick Rose" but after those players, there isn't a point guard who had Fultz's combination of size and athleticism at age 18. If you were ranking players by athleticism you would go through a lot of names after Fultz before getting to Russell or Turner. You could say someone like Eric Bledsoe is quicker and more explosive, but Fultz has 3 inches in height and wingspan on Bledsoe and will likely improve his athleticism as he continues to mature physically.

This is totally unfair, but could Fultz in worst case scenario be PG Jahlil Okafor? Remember how much scouts drooled on Okafor’s “advanced” offensive game for his age, his footwork, isolation skillset? Just because you look the part in terms of moves doesn’t mean it always comes together.


No because scouts drool over Fultz's advanced pick-and-roll game, which unlike an isolation post-up is a type of play that actually works in the NBA.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#522 » by Derento » Sun May 21, 2017 6:22 pm

I've never seen a point guard block as many shots as Fultz. He could just explode. I don't really understand the Fultz isn't a good athlete talk. He is a very good one especially for his age.
For his Ftr it's not elite but guys like Durant,Westbrook,Wade has similar ftr rates at Fultz age. With his vertical explosion and size I think he will become better at that aspect as he gets older.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#523 » by Duke4life831 » Sun May 21, 2017 6:29 pm

Derento wrote:I've never seen a point guard block as many shots as Fultz. He could just explode. I don't really understand the Fultz isn't a good athlete talk. He is a very good one especially for his age.
For his Ftr it's not elite but guys like Durant,Westbrook,Wade has similar ftr rates at Fultz age. With his vertical explosion and size I think he will become better at that aspect as he gets older.


I think he gets so many blocks because of how long he is. I think hes a pretty solid vertical athlete, I think the questions with his athleticism comes in when they talk about his quickness and top speed.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#524 » by reanimator » Sun May 21, 2017 6:36 pm

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Re: Will Fultz be a bust for the Celtics 

Post#525 » by Chuck-Cheese » Sun May 21, 2017 10:51 pm

SBM wrote:I have not seen anything special from Fultz by watching highlights. I don't like the fit either. I don't like trading off good players to play good players, its called lateral movement.

I think the hope is that Fultz is ultimately better than the pieces they move. Who knows how good Fultz will be but if they don't believe he will end up being better than Bradley, Smart and Rozier than I agree that they shouldn't draft him.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#526 » by cksdayoff » Mon May 22, 2017 3:00 am

Fultz's athleticism and facillitating skills have been getting underrated around here. He makes good passes, creates good looks for his teammates when the defense collapses on him. i never understood the offense at washington because when fultz has the ball, players just stand around. terrible coaching.

Fultz is going to be an elite scorer/shooter in the NBA. The guy has a good head on his shoulders. Has the work ethic to match his advanced skill level.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#527 » by Upperclass » Mon May 22, 2017 9:10 pm

Fultz athleticism questions marks are odd. You can watch him play and see that he will be one of the best athletes in the entire NBA. his only flaw in his athletic ability, is his vert, which isnt eye-popping. Other than that.. kid is an amazing lateral athlete.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#528 » by toussaud » Mon May 22, 2017 9:40 pm

I don't know..hex...stiff.best way to put it. He is quot skilled but I worry about his agility . Don't mean to be harsh but he moves like there is a stick up his ass lol. I see a lot of harden in him
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#529 » by WalterBenjamin » Mon May 22, 2017 10:36 pm

toussaud wrote:I don't know..hex...stiff.best way to put it. He is quot skilled but I worry about his agility . Don't mean to be harsh but he moves like there is a stick up his ass lol. I see a lot of harden in him

:banghead: :banghead:
You are saying Fultz is stiff. That is like saying Warren Buffet is poor. :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Will Fultz be a bust for the Celtics 

Post#530 » by Catchall » Tue May 23, 2017 12:07 am

I think Josh Jackson is likely to be the best player in this draft, but I don't think Fultz is going to bust. I think he'll be an excellent score-first PG -- like Irving, CJ McCollum, etc. -- and will probably still be considered top 5 or so in a re-draft a few years from now.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#531 » by toussaud » Tue May 23, 2017 1:59 am

Oh no his game is bust proof. At worst he's a ball handling two guards that can get u 15 a night. But is that what u r drafting first overall
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#532 » by toussaud » Tue May 23, 2017 2:01 am

Actually his game reminds me if Chauncey billiups
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#533 » by NormanDale » Wed May 31, 2017 11:06 am

WalterBenjamin wrote:
toussaud wrote:I don't know..hex...stiff.best way to put it. He is quot skilled but I worry about his agility . Don't mean to be harsh but he moves like there is a stick up his ass lol. I see a lot of harden in him

:banghead: :banghead:
You are saying Fultz is stiff. That is like saying Warren Buffet is poor. :banghead: :banghead:


My favorite part of this quote is where he compares Fultz to Harden, as a bad thing. Talk about recency bias from a few bad playoff games!

God forbid Fultz might one day average 29-11-9 with a .613 TS%. That would be a real disappointment for the Celtics.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#534 » by Marcus » Wed May 31, 2017 4:54 pm

yall seen the latest pics of Fultz's weight gain?
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#535 » by Slartibartfast » Wed May 31, 2017 6:12 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Derento wrote:I've never seen a point guard block as many shots as Fultz. He could just explode. I don't really understand the Fultz isn't a good athlete talk. He is a very good one especially for his age.
For his Ftr it's not elite but guys like Durant,Westbrook,Wade has similar ftr rates at Fultz age. With his vertical explosion and size I think he will become better at that aspect as he gets older.


I think he gets so many blocks because of how long he is. I think hes a pretty solid vertical athlete, I think the questions with his athleticism comes in when they talk about his quickness and top speed.


Wall had the same length and even more vertical and he wasn't the same level of shot-blocker. Fultz has great timing and body control to go with his length.

He has so much in common with Wade in this respect - Wade just an all time great in terms of timing and body control in the paint on both ends.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#536 » by cksdayoff » Wed May 31, 2017 7:08 pm

Marcus wrote:yall seen the latest pics of Fultz's weight gain?


post em.

i've been saying all year, i havent seen an 18 year old guard attack the rim like fultz, against 2, even sometimes 3 defenders. amazing body control, nice craftiness, and i'm in awe of how he finishes against contact. as a freshman. sick
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#537 » by nolang1 » Wed May 31, 2017 7:21 pm

cksdayoff wrote:
Marcus wrote:yall seen the latest pics of Fultz's weight gain?


post em.

i've been saying all year, i havent seen an 18 year old guard attack the rim like fultz, against 2, even sometimes 3 defenders. amazing body control, nice craftiness, and i'm in awe of how he finishes against contact. as a freshman. sick


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To me, this has always been implied when thinking of Fultz as a prospect. He looks 'unathletic' to some people because he was a 17-18 year old kid in the middle of a major growth spurt, and he's still pulling off very impressive dunks/finishes/blocks. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if he grew a bit more and ended up being 6'6.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#538 » by cksdayoff » Wed May 31, 2017 7:27 pm

can too much bulk screw up your shooting mechanics? his biceps look a lot bigger now than they were during his freshman season at washington. i remember rueben sierra after his mvp year bulked the f up and his batting average plummeted

also check out DSJ from his junior year in HS to his freshman year in college, he got a lot bulkier
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#539 » by nolang1 » Wed May 31, 2017 7:45 pm

cksdayoff wrote:can too much bulk screw up your shooting mechanics? his biceps look a lot bigger now than they were during his freshman season at washington. i remember rueben sierra after his mvp year bulked the f up and his batting average plummeted

also check out DSJ from his junior year in HS to his freshman year in college, he got a lot bulkier


I'm sure a lot of it in that picture is just the difference between flexing and relaxed, and these guys are smart enough and work with smart enough trainers that they're not trying to look like bodybuilders at the expense of their shooting ability. Guys like KD and AD have put on 30-40 pounds since their freshman year while continuing to improve at shooting.

That picture to me is more indicative of things you can already see when watching clips of Fultz, which is that with natural progression he'll be strong enough to finish through contact at the NBA level and guard 2s-3s if need be.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#540 » by Marcus » Wed May 31, 2017 7:54 pm

Always saw him as a 2 anyway.
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