Lonzo Ball

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orlandomanic
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#801 » by orlandomanic » Mon May 22, 2017 1:34 pm

toussaud wrote:the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.


Rubio one of the worst defenders in the NBA, defiantly ranked in bottom half of starting NBA PG. Lowry, Wall, Rondo, Conley, Curry, Teague, Beverley, etc etc etc... are all way better

Rubio's defense is average to poor at best.

Rubio on all defensive teams in his career..... ZERO
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#802 » by CptCrunch » Mon May 22, 2017 1:52 pm

orlandomanic wrote:
toussaud wrote:the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.


Rubio one of the worst defenders in the NBA, defiantly ranked in bottom half of starting NBA PG. Lowry, Wall, Rondo, Conley, Curry, Teague, Beverley, etc etc etc... are all way better

Rubio's defense is average to poor at best.

Rubio on all defensive teams in his career..... ZERO


Rubio is actually decent to great at defense tbh. If you believe in advanced stats, he is one of the best defensive PG's. If you don't, he is at least passably average.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#803 » by The-Power » Mon May 22, 2017 2:13 pm

orlandomanic wrote:Rubio one of the worst defenders in the NBA, defiantly ranked in bottom half of starting NBA PG.

Wait, what? :lol:
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#804 » by sikma42 » Mon May 22, 2017 3:30 pm

The-Power wrote:
orlandomanic wrote:Rubio one of the worst defenders in the NBA, defiantly ranked in bottom half of starting NBA PG.

Wait, what? :lol:


This is truly turning out to be a strange thread....


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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#805 » by Jkam31 » Mon May 22, 2017 4:15 pm

orlandomanic wrote:
toussaud wrote:the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.


Rubio one of the worst defenders in the NBA, defiantly ranked in bottom half of starting NBA PG. Lowry, Wall, Rondo, Conley, Curry, Teague, Beverley, etc etc etc... are all way better

Rubio's defense is average to poor at best.

Rubio on all defensive teams in his career..... ZERO


Embarrassing


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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#806 » by JHFVF07 » Mon May 22, 2017 4:17 pm

If we are going to be negatives, Lakers will replace Nick Young/Jordan Clarkson on their backourt for a pass first pg, with good court vision, who can knock the three ball when left open? Sign me in, sounds good to me.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#807 » by doordoor123 » Tue May 30, 2017 6:20 pm

I was just thinking about comparisons and I think his best comparison might be Draymond Green.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#808 » by TheRealKaboom » Tue May 30, 2017 7:27 pm

doordoor123 wrote:I was just thinking about comparisons and I think his best comparison might be Draymond Green.

Lonzo Ball's best comp is Draymond Green? :lol:

Why stop there? How about Shaq as Lonzo's best comp? Or maybe Bryant "Big Country" Reeves?
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#809 » by doordoor123 » Tue May 30, 2017 7:42 pm

TheRealKaboom wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:I was just thinking about comparisons and I think his best comparison might be Draymond Green.

Lonzo Ball's best comp is Draymond Green? :lol:

Why stop there? How about Shaq as Lonzo's best comp? Or maybe Bryant "Big Country" Reeves?


It makes sense in the sense that he has great vision, passes in transition or on top of the key, he cuts to the basket and shoots open threes. He's also very switchable on defense because he's 6'6. Maybe not as good defensively, but just as smart. I actually think even more so now that it's actually a really good comparison. He's a smaller Draymond.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#810 » by reanimator » Tue May 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Lonzo should be versatile defensively but that is not a distinction that only belongs to Draymond Green for the comp to make sense. Green is an elite ISO/perimeter and post defender who offers rim protection....thats partially what makes him unique given his size and offensive skill. There are quite a few versatile defenders at the guard slot in this draft (Dozier, Ntilikina) but the chance at a Draymond type is either Isaac or OG imo.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#811 » by Jkam31 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:10 pm

TheRealKaboom wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:I was just thinking about comparisons and I think his best comparison might be Draymond Green.

Lonzo Ball's best comp is Draymond Green? :lol:

Why stop there? How about Shaq as Lonzo's best comp? Or maybe Bryant "Big Country" Reeves?


Some fools comparing him to Jason Kidd, JASON KIDD. You should have been outraged a long time back


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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#812 » by Duke4life831 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:15 pm

Jkam31 wrote:
TheRealKaboom wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:I was just thinking about comparisons and I think his best comparison might be Draymond Green.

Lonzo Ball's best comp is Draymond Green? :lol:

Why stop there? How about Shaq as Lonzo's best comp? Or maybe Bryant "Big Country" Reeves?


Some fools comparing him to Jason Kidd, JASON KIDD. You should have been outraged a long time back


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Why is Jason Kidd such an outrageous comparison? Ball is a tall athletic pass first PG with great vision and passing and is ultimate floor and offensive general. He also set the Pac-12 freshman assist record and set the UCLA single season assist record. I think that is a pretty good comparison to Kidd.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#813 » by doordoor123 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:24 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Jkam31 wrote:
TheRealKaboom wrote:Lonzo Ball's best comp is Draymond Green? :lol:

Why stop there? How about Shaq as Lonzo's best comp? Or maybe Bryant "Big Country" Reeves?


Some fools comparing him to Jason Kidd, JASON KIDD. You should have been outraged a long time back


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Why is Jason Kidd such an outrageous comparison? Ball is a tall athletic pass first PG with great vision and passing and is ultimate floor and offensive general. He also set the Pac-12 freshman assist record and set the UCLA single season assist record. I think that is a pretty good comparison to Kidd.


Jason Kidd took guys off the dribble, took contact and had a mid-range game.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#814 » by chefo » Tue May 30, 2017 10:05 pm

I've watched a couple of games and looked at most of his scouting videos.

Both positives and negatives in spades.

The negatives:
* The game can be very easy for a fast, big guard that plays with well-shooting, hard-running bigs like UCLA's. I don't know what percentage of his assists came from a big running or a big pooping for an 18ft shot, but such teammates can mask a lot of warts. The game feels so much easier for the guard when a big can both shoot credibly and roll hard for a dunk. I haven't looked at the Lakers lately, but if they are playing stiffs who don't run hard and are not excellent shooters, them bricking open shots will be deemed Ball's failure. His problem may be that his college teammates may be setting unrealistic expectations, especially before he can get used to the NBA as many of these assists looked to be system/personnel assists.

* He looked real slow against Kentucky (maybe because he was injured). If he gets much stronger, it may not end up being a problem, but usually you need either quickness or strength (like Kidd) to create space. As of right now, he is skinny with poor lateral quickness, which is a bad combo until rectified.

* He is currently very predictable as many here have mentioned and easy to game plan against. He shoots going left and drives right. It can be a natural tendency (I know because I had it too when I played) that you have to consciously develop counters for or else anybody who knows you can adjust.

The positives:
* He looks really tall for a PG. He may not be a true 6'6, but neither are the guys meant to guard him really 6'3. He sees the court well with space and is unselfish and if Walton makes him push the pace, he'll likely excel.

* He's pretty young and inexperienced, but has good tools. He needs to work out a way to use his physical tools to his maximum advantage. If his playing style remains what it is today, he will probably be considered a mild bust unless he plays at a breakneck pace. Since the pace slows down when games matter (at least it used to), he needs to develop a style close to how Magic played back in the day (obviously Magic was much bigger).

For him I can see a complete bust and a fairly successful career as both equally likely, depending on if he really has a high bball IQ or not, which there is no way for us casual fans to know. If I were a GM, I would be really scared picking him 2nd if he doesn't, even though he is the consensus number 2.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#815 » by Rockmaninoff » Tue May 30, 2017 10:37 pm

^ I don't think a coach will need to make him push the pace. The guy plays basketball like he's spamming the turbo button in a video game. :lol:

Pair him with an ISO guy for playoff mode. Ball will keep the ball moving and dominate the early clock and the ISO guy can handle the late clock stuff. ISO guy can also pass out to Ball for deep 3s. Added bonus is Ball spaces the court on every possession.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#816 » by JHFVF07 » Tue May 30, 2017 11:19 pm

Rockmaninoff wrote:^ I don't think a coach will need to make him push the pace. The guy plays basketball like he's spamming the turbo button in a video game. :lol:

Pair him with an ISO guy for playoff mode. Ball will keep the ball moving and dominate the early clock and the ISO guy can handle the late clock stuff. ISO guy can also pass out to Ball for deep 3s. Added bonus is Ball spaces the court on every possession.


On Lakers squad he will have Russell to be the ISO guy(he will have to get better), and will run the floor with Randle and Ingram.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#817 » by Rockmaninoff » Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 pm

JHFVF07 wrote:
Rockmaninoff wrote:^ I don't think a coach will need to make him push the pace. The guy plays basketball like he's spamming the turbo button in a video game. :lol:

Pair him with an ISO guy for playoff mode. Ball will keep the ball moving and dominate the early clock and the ISO guy can handle the late clock stuff. ISO guy can also pass out to Ball for deep 3s. Added bonus is Ball spaces the court on every possession.


On Lakers squad he will have Russell to be the ISO guy(he will have to get better), and will run the floor with Randle and Ingram.


Lots of noise about Paul George to the Lakers. That would be close to a perfect compliment. But, I think he could make all the young Lakers better too.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#818 » by Jkam31 » Wed May 31, 2017 12:11 am

doordoor123 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Jkam31 wrote:
Some fools comparing him to Jason Kidd, JASON KIDD. You should have been outraged a long time back


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Why is Jason Kidd such an outrageous comparison? Ball is a tall athletic pass first PG with great vision and passing and is ultimate floor and offensive general. He also set the Pac-12 freshman assist record and set the UCLA single season assist record. I think that is a pretty good comparison to Kidd.


Jason Kidd took guys off the dribble, took contact and had a mid-range game.


He might not even be half the athlete Kidd was and defender as well, just mind boggling


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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#819 » by doordoor123 » Wed May 31, 2017 1:58 am

Jkam31 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Why is Jason Kidd such an outrageous comparison? Ball is a tall athletic pass first PG with great vision and passing and is ultimate floor and offensive general. He also set the Pac-12 freshman assist record and set the UCLA single season assist record. I think that is a pretty good comparison to Kidd.


Jason Kidd took guys off the dribble, took contact and had a mid-range game.


He might not even be half the athlete Kidd was and defender as well, just mind boggling


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I think Lonzo is getting his athleticism underrated because he uses his head more than he uses his speed or his hops. He may not have a great first step, but he's extremely quick. I went to UCLA vs USC and it just seemed like he zoomed down the court. He can also get his head above the rim. I just don't think he knows how to use his athleticism honestly. And that's why I actually think Ball has a lot more upside. I just think he has gotten too comfortable with what he does well and hasn't really explored other ways to play.
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Re: Lonzo Ball 

Post#820 » by Lalouie » Wed May 31, 2017 2:55 am

Jkam31 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Why is Jason Kidd such an outrageous comparison? Ball is a tall athletic pass first PG with great vision and passing and is ultimate floor and offensive general. He also set the Pac-12 freshman assist record and set the UCLA single season assist record. I think that is a pretty good comparison to Kidd.


Jason Kidd took guys off the dribble, took contact and had a mid-range game.


He might not even be half the athlete Kidd was and defender as well, just mind boggling


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What's mind boggling is there have been dozens upon dozens of comparisons based on simple physical specs over the decades with much much less criticism than applied to Lonzo.

Part of the comparisons may be true, some may be a bias against Lavar. What is true though is Lonzo took a 15-17 team and turned them into a 30win team. Changed the thinking of EVERYONE there from players to coaches, which is something all the other players didn't do, very few ever do, and Simmons NEVER did.

what Lonzo does the nay sayers have no numbers to define

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