2017 Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion

[jcsunsfan]

Big Sauce is a hard worker, no doubt. He's a 6' 8" center though and you can't overpay those guys. Especially if they are going to be your 3rd string center. If you're saying good-bye to Len and turning over the back-up role to Williams exclusively that is a slightly different story. McDonough has a lot of tough decisions to make this Summer that will greatly shape the franchise going forward and this is one of them since it is tied into what the team does with Len.

What if Sauce gets a higher offer than Len? Who do you keep?

[jcsunsfan]

Great video (narrated by Kobe) about what makes the Warriors' offense so difficult to defend. It's a quick, pretty entertaining watch, and I definitely recommend it to anyone curious to see how their offensive scheme differs from the bulk of the league.

They play an offense that gets compared to the SSOL Suns because of their fast pace and high scoring, but to me it's more of a fast-paced, modern iteration of the triangle offense. It's really beautiful to watch compared to the pick-and-roll offense that has dominated the league. Lots of post action with the intention of finding cutters/shooters instead of scoring individually, minimal 1-on-1 isolation possessions unless it comes from the offense, split screens on the perimeter between very good shooters that require a great degree of awareness and positioning on defense to avoid giving up backdoor cuts and open shoots, off-ball screens and cuts to the basketball on nearly every pass. They still get a lot of the mismatches that PnR offenses get, but in my opinion there's a lot more opportunity to score in that kind of offense than the scheme of: screen @ top of key > dribble-drive > wait for defender to cheat > pass to their man on the perimeter > shoot > rinse/repeat. Their roster is ideal for it between 3 of the best perimeter scorers in the game, Draymond and KD as playmakers in the low/mid/high-post, Zaza and McGee as constant head hunting screeners that can dive to the rim when their man cheats to cover the bigger offensive threats, and high iq veterans that contribute on both ends. I wouldn't mind seeing us shift toward that style of play, although we don't have the point guard or another outside shooter on the wing for it quite yet (I think Bender, Chriss, and Booker are decent building blocks though).

Interesting video. Everyone is a point guard. Its what every coach wants his team to play. You have to have players who will buy in. Its not so much about not being cocky. Its about believing in your teammates. If one player sees himself as significantly better than the rest, it will not work. Its why BK is such a problem.

[darealjuice]

Interesting video. Everyone is a point guard. Its what every coach wants his team to play. You have to have players who will buy in. Its not so much about not being cocky. Its about believing in your teammates. If one player sees himself as significantly better than the rest, it will not work. Its why BK is such a problem.

Yup. I think in addition to trusting your teammates for that kind of offense, you need to emphasize the mental aspect of the game (ironically another one of BKs weaknesses). You need to be able to read defensive rotations, know which option is the best with each step in the offense depending on how the defenders are positioned, know every role and every option on the floor so that you aren't looking for a DHO or backdoor cut while your teammate expects you to swing it and set a ball screen, etc.. It gives you plenty of options to counter the defense, but if you can't think the game and quickly react, then you and your teammates aren't recognizing the counters and you're not getting a lot of good shots in the offense. I remember my old high school coach trying to put in a basic triangle offense, and half the time you have to yell at kids on the perimeter to set their screens and make their cuts because they just get tired/pressured, pass the ball, and end up ball watching on the perimeter because they forgot what they were supposed to do.

That's why lower level teams (HS, AAU, some colleges) run so many set plays: everyone has a designated role and they are designed to get a good shot one time with wrinkle or two thrown in to counter the defense if they cheat, so it doesn't take a lot of quick reading and reacting to get a good shot.

[King4Day]

Great video (narrated by Kobe) about what makes the Warriors' offense so difficult to defend. It's a quick, pretty entertaining watch, and I definitely recommend it to anyone curious to see how their offensive scheme differs from the bulk of the league.

They play an offense that gets compared to the SSOL Suns because of their fast pace and high scoring, but to me it's more of a fast-paced, modern iteration of the triangle offense. It's really beautiful to watch compared to the pick-and-roll offense that has dominated the league. Lots of post action with the intention of finding cutters/shooters instead of scoring individually, minimal 1-on-1 isolation possessions unless it comes from the offense, split screens on the perimeter between very good shooters that require a great degree of awareness and positioning on defense to avoid giving up backdoor cuts and open shoots, off-ball screens and cuts to the basketball on nearly every pass. They still get a lot of the mismatches that PnR offenses get, but in my opinion there's a lot more opportunity to score in that kind of offense than the scheme of: screen @ top of key > dribble-drive > wait for defender to cheat > pass to their man on the perimeter > shoot > rinse/repeat. Their roster is ideal for it between 3 of the best perimeter scorers in the game, Draymond and KD as playmakers in the low/mid/high-post, Zaza and McGee as constant head hunting screeners that can dive to the rim when their man cheats to cover the bigger offensive threats, and high iq veterans that contribute on both ends. I wouldn't mind seeing us shift toward that style of play, although we don't have the point guard or another outside shooter on the wing for it quite yet (I think Bender, Chriss, and Booker are decent building blocks though).

Good watch.
The biggest issue IMO is, you could have a team of the 5 brightest minds in the NBA. But if they can't play, then none of this matters.
The Warriors happen to have 4 of the most talented players in the league (2 in the history of the league).

[jcsunsfan]

I often wonder why NBA teams don't run a high post offense any more. It employs some of the basic concepts of the triangle but uses a center's passing skills. The Suns actually used it very effectively during the Alvan Adams days and then again with Diaw.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I often wonder why NBA teams don't run a high post offense any more. It employs some of the basic concepts of the triangle but uses a center's passing skills. The Suns actually used it very effectively during the Alvan Adams days and then again with Diaw.

Suns should be using bender in this role next year. Best way to maximise his offensive talent. Its one of the reasons i like isaac, he could be useful both as a shooter and cutter in that.

Teams don't do it as much any more because they simply don't have bigs with the skill sets to run it. So many bigs these days are the athletic role guys like Deandre Jordan who just don't have the chops to run high post. Memphis does a lot of this with Gasol because he's good at it but guys like him are the exception these days.

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[Bogyo]

So long for a good Heat pick:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246024/Heat-Close-To-Resolution-With-Chris-Bosh-For-Cap-Relief

How is this even possible? He will play for somebody else and the Heat's caproom is not affected? What the actual f? Is the league really not trying to screw us? Cuz it sure looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and even walks like a mf duck if this is true...

[King4Day]

So long for a good Heat pick:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246024/Heat-Close-To-Resolution-With-Chris-Bosh-For-Cap-Relief

How is this even possible? He will play for somebody else and the Heat's caproom is not affected? What the actual f? Is the league really not trying to screw us? Cuz it sure looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and even walks like a mf duck if this is true...

I don't know if they will have much, if any, cap space to get a significant player anyway. Chances are, next year they will be about the same, or better so it's not like the pick was going to be in the late lottery anywho

[LukasBMW]

So long for a good Heat pick:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246024/Heat-Close-To-Resolution-With-Chris-Bosh-For-Cap-Relief

How is this even possible? He will play for somebody else and the Heat's caproom is not affected? What the actual f? Is the league really not trying to screw us? Cuz it sure looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and even walks like a mf duck if this is true...

I don't know if they will have much, if any, cap space to get a significant player anyway. Chances are, next year they will be about the same, or better so it's not like the pick was going to be in the late lottery anywho

The Heat played out of their minds this year. I expect them to fall back a bit next year and they may very well test the limits of the protection on that pick.

That's assuming they don't land any major free agents this summer which I don't think they will. KD is going to resign. CP3 won't pass up his last big payday with the Clippers. The only ones who might walk are Blake and Hayward. I don't see either ending up in Miami.

[NTB]

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[darealjuice]

It was never not going to convey, Miami started terrible but they closed out the season looking like they could be in the playoffs. McBob picked up his player option today, so they have about $31M in cap space to spend between bringing back Dion Waiters (assuming they do) and luring free agents. They also have to be conscious of Tyler Johnson's salary ballooning from $6M to $19M the next season because of the poison pill contract Brooklyn made them sign to keep him in RFA. We might get lucky and the end of the year was a fluke, but I doubt it.

Our real hope is the unprotected pick in 2021. Dragic and Whiteside will either be gone or being paid too much for their age, whatever FA they sign this summer will have a large contract and be aging, and the only prospects they have under 25 are Justice Winslow and whoever they pick at 14 this year. Just gotta hope they suck in the future, a high draft pick from Miami once our core is well developed would give us a big opportunity to trade for a major piece.

[bigfoot]

Big Sauce is a hard worker, no doubt. He's a 6' 8" center though and you can't overpay those guys. Especially if they are going to be your 3rd string center. If you're saying good-bye to Len and turning over the back-up role to Williams exclusively that is a slightly different story. McDonough has a lot of tough decisions to make this Summer that will greatly shape the franchise going forward and this is one of them since it is tied into what the team does with Len.

What if Sauce gets a higher offer than Len? Who do you keep?

I keep Sauce ... better rebounder, better touch around the basket, better role player. Len is not starter material so it's an easy choice of paying Williams over Len.

[jcsunsfan]

We cannot hang on to those Heat picks like they are guaranteed good ones. They will likely be mid-first rounders and if we can use them to get a player we want, we should do it.

[jcsunsfan]

I am torn on Len and Sauce. I still believe Len is going to develop. But Sauce is clearly the more productive player right now, but his upside is limited. I guess it depends on salaries. I don't mind keeping Len for the right price.

[Villalobos]

We cannot hang on to those Heat picks like they are guaranteed good ones. They will likely be mid-first rounders and if we can use them to get a player we want, we should do it.

The 2018 pick probably won't be amazing, but the 2021 unprotected pick you absolutely have to hold on to. Tons of things will happen in four years of the NBA, and if luck goes your way (lol Suns luck lol) that pick and draft and lottery could be gold.

[LukasBMW]

We cannot hang on to those Heat picks like they are guaranteed good ones. They will likely be mid-first rounders and if we can use them to get a player we want, we should do it.

The 2018 pick probably won't be amazing, but the 2021 unprotected pick you absolutely have to hold on to. Tons of things will happen in four years of the NBA, and if luck goes your way (lol Suns luck lol) that pick and draft and lottery could be gold.

Agreed.

An unprotected pick in the NBA is like being able to have unprotected sex with the pornstar of your choice without any chance of getting herpes.

It's rare. And opportunities like that need to be taken advantage of!

[Frank Lee]

I often wonder why NBA teams don't run a high post offense any more. It employs some of the basic concepts of the triangle but uses a center's passing skills. The Suns actually used it very effectively during the Alvan Adams days and then again with Diaw.

Suns should be using bender in this role next year. Best way to maximise his offensive talent. Its one of the reasons i like isaac, he could be useful both as a shooter and cutter in that.

Teams don't do it as much any more because they simply don't have bigs with the skill sets to run it. So many bigs these days are the athletic role guys like Deandre Jordan who just don't have the chops to run high post. Memphis does a lot of this with Gasol because he's good at it but guys like him are the exception these days.

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Adams was a smart smart player, and very good passer...... Didn't hurt he had Westphaul and Davis either. Both great off the ball catch and shoot guys. Cowens was a really good passer too. Walton.... can't think of too many others. Its all about blocks and dunks now.

Crazy one year I guess the press knocked Chamberlain for his ball hogging, so the next couple years he averaged 7+ and 8+ assists.

Bender does look like one the first big guys we've had who could dp that

[LukasBMW]

Great video (narrated by Kobe) about what makes the Warriors' offense so difficult to defend. It's a quick, pretty entertaining watch, and I definitely recommend it to anyone curious to see how their offensive scheme differs from the bulk of the league.

They play an offense that gets compared to the SSOL Suns because of their fast pace and high scoring, but to me it's more of a fast-paced, modern iteration of the triangle offense. It's really beautiful to watch compared to the pick-and-roll offense that has dominated the league. Lots of post action with the intention of finding cutters/shooters instead of scoring individually, minimal 1-on-1 isolation possessions unless it comes from the offense, split screens on the perimeter between very good shooters that require a great degree of awareness and positioning on defense to avoid giving up backdoor cuts and open shoots, off-ball screens and cuts to the basketball on nearly every pass. They still get a lot of the mismatches that PnR offenses get, but in my opinion there's a lot more opportunity to score in that kind of offense than the scheme of: screen @ top of key > dribble-drive > wait for defender to cheat > pass to their man on the perimeter > shoot > rinse/repeat. Their roster is ideal for it between 3 of the best perimeter scorers in the game, Draymond and KD as playmakers in the low/mid/high-post, Zaza and McGee as constant head hunting screeners that can dive to the rim when their man cheats to cover the bigger offensive threats, and high iq veterans that contribute on both ends. I wouldn't mind seeing us shift toward that style of play, although we don't have the point guard or another outside shooter on the wing for it quite yet (I think Bender, Chriss, and Booker are decent building blocks though).

Agree 100% on the triangle analogy.

SSOL can be seen on the rockets. In SSOL it's all about the PG, the pick and roll, and fastbreak points.

I'd rather run the Warriors offense with the pieces we have then SSOL. Dragon can be our point forward.

[Qwigglez]

Great video (narrated by Kobe) about what makes the Warriors' offense so difficult to defend. It's a quick, pretty entertaining watch, and I definitely recommend it to anyone curious to see how their offensive scheme differs from the bulk of the league.

They play an offense that gets compared to the SSOL Suns because of their fast pace and high scoring, but to me it's more of a fast-paced, modern iteration of the triangle offense. It's really beautiful to watch compared to the pick-and-roll offense that has dominated the league. Lots of post action with the intention of finding cutters/shooters instead of scoring individually, minimal 1-on-1 isolation possessions unless it comes from the offense, split screens on the perimeter between very good shooters that require a great degree of awareness and positioning on defense to avoid giving up backdoor cuts and open shoots, off-ball screens and cuts to the basketball on nearly every pass. They still get a lot of the mismatches that PnR offenses get, but in my opinion there's a lot more opportunity to score in that kind of offense than the scheme of: screen @ top of key > dribble-drive > wait for defender to cheat > pass to their man on the perimeter > shoot > rinse/repeat. Their roster is ideal for it between 3 of the best perimeter scorers in the game, Draymond and KD as playmakers in the low/mid/high-post, Zaza and McGee as constant head hunting screeners that can dive to the rim when their man cheats to cover the bigger offensive threats, and high iq veterans that contribute on both ends. I wouldn't mind seeing us shift toward that style of play, although we don't have the point guard or another outside shooter on the wing for it quite yet (I think Bender, Chriss, and Booker are decent building blocks though).

What a great video.
Booker/Chriss/Bender are great building blocks. Lonzo Ball would be a great pickup if we were trying to replicate this offense. Did Kerr invent his own style of offense and why hasn't the rest of the league tried this yet, or is it simply a lack of talent for other teams?

[SideSwipe]

Great video (narrated by Kobe) about what makes the Warriors' offense so difficult to defend. It's a quick, pretty entertaining watch, and I definitely recommend it to anyone curious to see how their offensive scheme differs from the bulk of the league.

They play an offense that gets compared to the SSOL Suns because of their fast pace and high scoring, but to me it's more of a fast-paced, modern iteration of the triangle offense. It's really beautiful to watch compared to the pick-and-roll offense that has dominated the league. Lots of post action with the intention of finding cutters/shooters instead of scoring individually, minimal 1-on-1 isolation possessions unless it comes from the offense, split screens on the perimeter between very good shooters that require a great degree of awareness and positioning on defense to avoid giving up backdoor cuts and open shoots, off-ball screens and cuts to the basketball on nearly every pass. They still get a lot of the mismatches that PnR offenses get, but in my opinion there's a lot more opportunity to score in that kind of offense than the scheme of: screen @ top of key > dribble-drive > wait for defender to cheat > pass to their man on the perimeter > shoot > rinse/repeat. Their roster is ideal for it between 3 of the best perimeter scorers in the game, Draymond and KD as playmakers in the low/mid/high-post, Zaza and McGee as constant head hunting screeners that can dive to the rim when their man cheats to cover the bigger offensive threats, and high iq veterans that contribute on both ends. I wouldn't mind seeing us shift toward that style of play, although we don't have the point guard or another outside shooter on the wing for it quite yet (I think Bender, Chriss, and Booker are decent building blocks though).

Agree 100% on the triangle analogy.

SSOL can be seen on the rockets. In SSOL it's all about the PG, the pick and roll, and fastbreak points.

I'd rather run the Warriors offense with the pieces we have then SSOL. Dragon can be our point forward.

Hmm...GS does run SSOL-style offense, they are just missing their roll man. They wish they had one. PHX wishes we had a defensive anchor like Green.

Here is an article that does a nice job of comparing the two. It's fro m a couple years back,
but it still applies.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/4/28/8508023/the-2014-2015-golden-state-warriors-are-the-ssol-phoenix-suns