2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3

[bucksfansince88]

Really like Kobi Simmons the more i watch him, for the people that like Fox, what makes fox the better lead guard?

I was looking into him earlier trying to figure out why he was so low, but then you get into the negatives on him. Dude sounds like the downside of Brandon Jennings. Too weak, doesn't get team involved, questionable intangibles according to some, bad shot selection, etc, and he is about to be 20 and seems to have more weaknesses than he did two years ago.

Maybe you are getting a bargain because he just wasn't happy at Arizona and it affected him, but I like a lot of other options even at the end of the draft a lot more. For instance, I have seen Frank Mason mocked toward the end of the second a lot. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over a guy like Kobi.

NBA scouts like Simmons' talent-level but have major concerns about his intangibles, especially considering how much development he still needs in terms of his skill-level and basketball IQ. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobi-Simmons-7247/ ©DraftExpress

Weaknesses: As good as Simmons is with the ball in his hands at creating offense, he isn't enough of a facilitator ... He does not look to pass very often when he gets into the lane, as he is constantly looking for his own shots when he's on the floor ... He is much more of an isolation player at this stage, and he struggles to operate out of the pick-and-roll as a playmaker, which is a vital tool for success in the NBA as a lead guard ... Simmons played 23.5 minutes per game at Arizona this past season, but he only averaged two assists per contest, a sign that his playmaking instincts need to improve ... He did not turn the ball over that frequently, coughing it up 1.2 times per game, but he has a tendency to over dribble and play out of control, which leads to bad turnovers ... Maturity and attitude are points that scouts note that he must improve upon ... His attitude came under fire after Trier returned to the team at midseason and he was visibly unhappy with coming off the bench. His play suffered as he stopped moving the ball as willingly, and Coach Miller was forced to cut his minutes futher ... If he wants to make it as a point guard in the association, it is imperative that he improves his decision-making and starts getting his teammates more involved ... Inefficiency is also a concern for Simmons right now ... He shot just 39.5% from the field in his freshman season, which is largely the result of subpar shot selection ... As good as he is off the dribble, he needs to improve his consistency as a spot-up shooter, as he made only 32% of his threes this season ... In the NBA, it is so difficult to be a consistent scorer without a reliable jump shot, so this needs to be a priority ... Maybe the biggest concern for now is adding strength to his slender frame. He weighs less than 200 pounds, which will be a problem at the next level when matched up with bigger guards in the NBA ... However, he is still just 19 years old, so he should develop physically with time ... A kid with a very high "situational dependency" at the next level for him to reach his potential ... Could have used an additional season in college to improve his skill level, however he apparently was always of the mindset that he was a one and done player ...

coming off a disappointing freshman campaign at Arizona, has a lot of developing to do with his all-around game before he becomes a factor at the next level.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/nbadraft2017mock_2.php#7Om2bIEvQgufWgKQ.99

It sounds like a lot of the same knocks against Fox

[M-C-G]

Fun with Hoop math





The best PGs can shoot at all 3 levels, at the rim, 2pt Jumpers, and 3s. This chart is sorted by number of 2pt Js. Notice stuff like Evans most shots at the rim but worst fg%, Ball highest fg% but fewest shots, etc.

Derek White and Frank Mason look damn solid across all three levels if I followed those charts correctly

[emunney]

Fun with Hoop math





The best PGs can shoot at all 3 levels, at the rim, 2pt Jumpers, and 3s. This chart is sorted by number of 2pt Js. Notice stuff like Evans most shots at the rim but worst fg%, Ball highest fg% but fewest shots, etc.

Derek White and Frank Mason look damn solid across all three levels if I followed those charts correctly

Williams-Goss too.

[emunney]

So the Sixers apparently think Ball and Simmons on the same team could work.

Good luck with that.

Why wouldn't it?

[LuessiT]

Spoiler:

I'm not going to go as far as saying Ojeleye is a good defender, but I dont think he's a bad defender either. He has lateral quickness, I've seen him switch onto PGs and stay in front of them and cut off drives, but thats not to say he's going to do that against the quickest of NBA guards. The nice thing about the defense that he played in is that he is showing and recovering on PnRs, doubling in the post and running out at the perimeter shooters, but yeah his recognition isnt the best and he is sometimes a step slow to react.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/


http://www.denverstiffs.com/2017/3/17/14946636/march-madness-prospect-watch-day-2-semi-ojeleye-smu


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-draft-2017-semi-ojeleye-scouting-report-combine-smu-duke-basketball-first-round-prospects/15lctixt4z6471iaxhk0bklxob



btw his full name is Jesusemilore Talodabijesu Ojeleye, how awesome is that

Not sure if you believe in advanced stats at the college level but Ojeleye has been pretty bad there, posting 'just' a 0.2 DBPM (note that at the college level even bad defensive players usually post positive DBPM's).

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/semi-ojeleye-1.html

I think he's a bad defensive player that is going to get exposed at the pro level.

Idk, that might have more to do with the type of defense SMU played and their glacial pace. Their team defense was top 5 ranked last year and they switched on everything so its not like you can hide a bad defensive player doing that. I absolutely NOT well versed in advanced stats on D though, so you could be absolutely right, but I didnt see a bad defender in the few games that I watched him play. Of course I was watching the games to watch Shake Milton and was pleasantly surprised at Semi so I cant say that I was watching Semi play in and play out either, but his switching onto guards and getting a body on them when they drive to push them out of the lane looked pretty good to me, not Brogdon level but definitely not Jabari level either.

Honestly I see exactly that.

[M-C-G]

It sounds like a lot of the same knocks against Fox

1. I'd say go back and look at what Badger just posted and you can see Kobi being pretty terrible compared to his peers
2. Scouting reports on Fox below from the same sites as Kobi...Other than slight frame and poor 3pt shooting, they don't really sound anything alike...And with Fox you are getting a really good defender

MINUSES

Skinny frame with needle legs that will make him a liability against larger guards or when scoring against contact.
His poor shooting is vexing. He has good mechanics, looks comfortable, yet he struggles.
Gets into the paint with ease, but isn’t an elite finisher. Needs to add more creative finishes instead of settling for floaters.
Prone to turnovers as a result of trying to do too much as a playmaker.

Weaknesses: Can be a streaky shooter. More of a scorer than consistent shooter right now … Has a slight frame. Very light at 175 pounds ... Lacks ideal strength in both upper and lower body, although he has added some muscle tone over the past year ... Can score in traffic but playing through contact will be an obstacle at the college level and beyond … Definitely shows good passing ability but can put too much heat on passes at unnecessary times. Can try to do too much at times, can play a bit more under control and limit turnovers. Can improve overall as a decision maker and could benefit by keeping the game simple … Can improve as a leader and floor general. Also, setting the pace of the game ... Has room to improve in the half court …

[LuessiT]

So the Sixers apparently think Ball and Simmons on the same team could work.

Good luck with that.

Why wouldn't it?

It would work extremely well imo.

[M-C-G]

So the Sixers apparently think Ball and Simmons on the same team could work.

Good luck with that.

Why wouldn't it?

I could see Ball, Russell and Randle much tougher pieces to integrate personally

[M-C-G]

Spoiler:

Not sure if you believe in advanced stats at the college level but Ojeleye has been pretty bad there, posting 'just' a 0.2 DBPM (note that at the college level even bad defensive players usually post positive DBPM's).

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/semi-ojeleye-1.html

I think he's a bad defensive player that is going to get exposed at the pro level.

Idk, that might have more to do with the type of defense SMU played and their glacial pace. Their team defense was top 5 ranked last year and they switched on everything so its not like you can hide a bad defensive player doing that. I absolutely NOT well versed in advanced stats on D though, so you could be absolutely right, but I didnt see a bad defender in the few games that I watched him play. Of course I was watching the games to watch Shake Milton and was pleasantly surprised at Semi so I cant say that I was watching Semi play in and play out either, but his switching onto guards and getting a body on them when they drive to push them out of the lane looked pretty good to me, not Brogdon level but definitely not Jabari level either.

Honestly I see exactly that.

I haven't really watched Semi, but the conversation reminded me of

Something similar can be said about Brogdon defensively, where the two-time ACC Defensive Player of the Year and 2016 NABC Defensive Player of the Year was one of the staunchest guards in the college game as a senior. A coach's dream in terms of effort, toughness, and mentality, Brogdon is one of the best examples of substance over style among guard prospects on this end in recent memory, defending all three perimeter positions at the college level effectively. Coming up with just .9 steals per game, Brogdon takes essentially no risks on this end, but scraps and claws to fight through screens, stay in front of his man closing out or defending one-on-one, and get a hand in the face of shooters at all times. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Malcolm-Brogdon-42107/ ©DraftExpress

[Badgerlander]

Fun with Hoop math





The best PGs can shoot at all 3 levels, at the rim, 2pt Jumpers, and 3s. This chart is sorted by number of 2pt Js. Notice stuff like Evans most shots at the rim but worst fg%, Ball highest fg% but fewest shots, etc.

Derek White and Frank Mason look damn solid across all three levels if I followed those charts correctly

Williams-Goss too.

White might be the most balanced guard across the board in the draft. Mason is only 56%fg at the rim, 4th worst, but he gets to the ft line the most (aside from Sumner) and shoots the highest 3pt% with the 5th lowest number of assisted 3s. Williams-Goss the only knock that I see is that 81.7% of his 3pt makes are assisted so he's much more catch and shoot than off the dribble, and also a low volume of 3s.

[machu46]

Fun with Hoop math

Spoiler:

The best PGs can shoot at all 3 levels, at the rim, 2pt Jumpers, and 3s. This chart is sorted by number of 2pt Js. Notice stuff like Evans most shots at the rim but worst fg%, Ball highest fg% but fewest shots, etc.

Based on this, I narrowed it down to a 60-40-35% club and got:
Derrick White
Nigel Williams-Goss
Monte Morris
Markelle Fultz

[machu46]

So the Sixers apparently think Ball and Simmons on the same team could work.

Good luck with that.

Why wouldn't it?

I'm not very high on Ball, but I think Philly is one, if not the best situation for him. I think he's more of an off-ball player if he's going to be effective in the NBA, and playing off of Simmons could work really well.

[Badgerlander]

Fun with Hoop math

Spoiler:

The best PGs can shoot at all 3 levels, at the rim, 2pt Jumpers, and 3s. This chart is sorted by number of 2pt Js. Notice stuff like Evans most shots at the rim but worst fg%, Ball highest fg% but fewest shots, etc.

Based on this, I narrowed it down to a 60-40-35% club and got:
Derrick White
Nigel Williams-Goss
Monte Morris
Markelle Fultz

Lonzo Ball

[machu46]

Fun with Hoop math

Spoiler:

The best PGs can shoot at all 3 levels, at the rim, 2pt Jumpers, and 3s. This chart is sorted by number of 2pt Js. Notice stuff like Evans most shots at the rim but worst fg%, Ball highest fg% but fewest shots, etc.

Based on this, I narrowed it down to a 60-40-35% club and got:
Derrick White
Nigel Williams-Goss
Monte Morris
Markelle Fultz

Lonzo Ball

Oh you're right. I eliminated him because of the tiny sample size on the mid-range.

[Badgerlander]

I forgot to throw Quinton Hooker in the mix but 62.2% at the rim, 35.5% on 2ptJs, and 44.4% from 3 with 84 3PM (3rd)

[freewhitemoon]

**** i wish we had a late 1st rounder or early 2nd to get Derrick white. He looks like a rotation guy at minimum and if his shooting off the dribble translates he could be really good

[streaky]

You simply can't find game changers in the second round. Your main objective is to find cheap complimentary tools that fit your scheme and fix your problems. I really like Bell (mobile big with decent D and rebounding).

Find someone who excells at one part of the game and who has the potential - with hard work - to improve gradually in the other areas. Bell seems like a good choice.[/quote
Yep. Seems like a guy you can work with.

[streaky]

What do you think about Dorsey?

[LuessiT]

What do you think about Dorsey?

Think he's a great second round get. One of the best shooters in the draft and while somewhat undersized for the 2 he has the handles and the ability in the PnR to play some 1, especially if your team has one or multiple ballhandlers on other positions. He gets to the FT-line a lot which may or may not translate, but even if that doesn't translate he's still usefull. He's also not that bad defensively that he has to be hidden, especially if defending 1's.

[LuessiT]

If we want to implement our switching scheme full time and are looking to add guys that can step into passing lanes Bell and Thornwell fit the bill the best. Both are excellent at generating steals (and blocks) by reading the opponents play and stepping into the lane. Bell has the unique ability to defend 1 to 5 and Thornwell can probably defend 1 to 4. I wouldn't mind getting Bell in the 1st and Thornwell in the 2nd if that is the direction they want to go.
That said, both their offensive games are a work in progress. Bell has tools to be solid on offense as he's shown some ability in the post with decent footwork and has improved his shot but as of right now he's best used as a PnR-finisher, a lob target or a finisher in transition. Thornwell's offensive game is also greatly overstated. He gets to the line about ten times per 40 by drawing contact in a smart way but I doubt that he's similar calls in the NBA. He's also not been much of a 3-point threat untill this year and his shot looks flat. He still has to adjust to the NBA 3. Thornwell also posted TS%'s of 50%, 45,6%, 50,4% before this season (59,1%). So how good of an offensive player is he really? He's still one of the best defensive players in the draft and to me the best defensive guard prospect (maybe Ntilikina has a shot at being better but he's still 18 and has long ways to go), but both Bell's and Thornwell's offensive games need polish.

Btw, here are some highlights of Thornwells 40/20 game, where he nearly does all his damage inside and from the line (still impressive getting 20 boards on a guard):

Watch on YouTube

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