2017 Offseason Thread

[og15]

Does going from Doc to Gentry truly make any difference?

[nickhx2]

guaranteeing separation of power while going into the next season someone who i think is a good head coach.

[Ranma]

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[ejftw]

Alvin is a great guy to have as an assistant....but a horrible guy as a head coach.

As far as the Spurs go, I still can't see Paul giving up all that money and being away from/relocating his family.

[Neddy]

we had gentry before? didnt work out then, what gives?

[nickhx2]

that he became a better coach after his tenure? that's not enough? lol

it's moot anyway since pelicans are keeping him.

[og15]

guaranteeing separation of power while going into the next season someone who i think is a good head coach.

Oh okay, the different coach and GM part, I agree, though I wouldn't necessarily have any draw towards Gentry if he was available, but I wouldn't dislike him or anything either.

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Spurs have $93 million in salary for next season. Cap holds: Patty Mills ($6.8M) and Jonathon Simmons ($1.7M), so total is $101.5M. If you are getting Paul though, and have DeJounte Murray, you might be letting Patty Mills go. The cap is $102 million. Gasol has a player option for $16.2M which he will likely pick up. Tony Parker's expiring is $15.5M, and I suppose they could move him too. Those two are making a combined $31.7M. They could technically move them to clear cap space and renounce Mills which would give them $39 million in cap space and subtract the cap holds which is like another $2 million or so. So it is actually not far fetched to imagine the Spurs being able to clear cap space for Paul I guess.

Hmm...well then...I guess they could figure it out, we'll see...

[Ranma]

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[Neddy]

that he became a better coach after his tenure? that's not enough? lol

it's moot anyway since pelicans are keeping him.

that is such a subjective argument that can be made for anyone, including Doc.

what if I say Doc has learned his down falls after this season that he is clearly the better GM and the head coach than the last season?

the fact is, his record does not show what you are claiming. VDN could even have the same argument for his case, but he still remains without a job.

[JGOJustin]

The Chris Paul to San Antonio thing is such a reach. There's literally a 0% chance that it happens.

He's not engineering a big Payday only to go elsewhere and get paid less.

He's not fighting on the players behalf as the president of the PA only to leave over 50 million dollars on the table.

The gymnastics that the spurs would have to go through just to get to the $50 Million dollar deficit is crazy. Pau and David Lee would be ridiculous to opt out of their current deals, it's just a lot of fluff that have no real merit behind them.

[Roscoe Sheed]

The Chris Paul to San Antonio thing is such a reach. There's literally a 0% chance that it happens.

He's not engineering a big Payday only to go elsewhere and get paid less.

He's not fighting on the players behalf as the president of the PA only to leave over 50 million dollars on the table.

The gymnastics that the spurs would have to go through just to get to the $50 Million dollar deficit is crazy. Pau and David Lee would be ridiculous to opt out of their current deals, it's just a lot of fluff that have no real merit behind them.

I hope you are right. The clippers can't afford to lose him. Hopefully Griffin would still re-sign. Who could they get to replace cp3? Lowry will ask for too much, right?

[Wammy Giveaway]

1. If he stays with the Clippers, critics will call him out for his greediness. But he designed this super max deal, so he's forced to stay in L.A. and be a man of his deal, or else be labelled a hypocrite. Competitive-wise, it may symbolize Paul's acceptance as a perennial playoff loser, but he'll prove his loyalty to the Clippers for the chance to have their first retired jersey. Since losing to the Clippers in 2014, the Golden State Warriors have faced the Pelicans, Grizzlies, Rockets (twice), Trailblazers (twice), Thunder, Jazz, and Spurs, the ones in bold representing the teams who the Clippers lost to when having an opportunity to face their arch rival. Maybe Paul stays to help finish what the Clippers have started. A Melo trade may be on the way, no matter how many times a lot of us will try to argue against it, but really, he needs one of his Banana Boat buddies, if not all three, pending LeBron's battle in the NBA Finals.

2. If he leaves the Clippers, OH BOY. Paul's presence alone unmasked the cursed clouds that watched over this woe begotten franchise piece by piece. Like Griffin, Paul was a lucky charm who protected the Laker's little brother from missing the playoffs completely. Take him away, the Clippers turn back into losers with no hope of ever making the playoffs ever again. Even if they sign-and-traded Blake Griffin to the Boston Celtics for the no. 1 draft pick to rebuild, they'll bungle the pick by way of the heart and find themselves in another very long playoff drought. Paul would be labelled a traitor upon choosing the Spurs, Cavaliers, or (gulp!) the Warriors should their dynasty grow wide and large.

On a personal level, Paul will finally get out of the 2nd round, maybe even win a championship as a secondary or true role player. But this could be seen as a Tracy McGrady move, one where Paul would be asked to surrender playing time completely. Paul would be labelled a hypocrite for abandoning his own demand to a big payday. Imagine if Paul took a veterans minimum for Golden State. Those Clipper battles will get really personal.

The fate of the Clippers - better yet, the entire NBA - rests in his hands.

What's it gonna be?

[Clemenza]

The Chris Paul to San Antonio thing is such a reach. There's literally a 0% chance that it happens.

He's not engineering a big Payday only to go elsewhere and get paid less.

He's not fighting on the players behalf as the president of the PA only to leave over 50 million dollars on the table.

The gymnastics that the spurs would have to go through just to get to the $50 Million dollar deficit is crazy. Pau and David Lee would be ridiculous to opt out of their current deals, it's just a lot of fluff that have no real merit behind them.

The only thing is, how much are the 1st round early eating away at him-killing him inside? Blake is regressing and not around for the post season. Doc the horrid GM has wasted his prime and could get worse the longer he stays as head of the front office.

If he were to stay it would strictly be for the money. If we don't get Melo or some youngsters don't develop the team will be sh*t for a few years to come. Paul knows this. It also seems like all the players on the team can't stand the sight of each other. Its up in the air on whether he stays or leaves if you ask me. Pop, Kawhi, the organization, the scouting and drafting, etc has to entice him. The Spurs are definitely in play for Paul if you ask me.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Wammy is prone to hyperbole

[og15]

The Chris Paul to San Antonio thing is such a reach. There's literally a 0% chance that it happens.

He's not engineering a big Payday only to go elsewhere and get paid less.

He's not fighting on the players behalf as the president of the PA only to leave over 50 million dollars on the table.

The gymnastics that the spurs would have to go through just to get to the $50 Million dollar deficit is crazy. Pau and David Lee would be ridiculous to opt out of their current deals, it's just a lot of fluff that have no real merit behind them.

Wouldn't be that hard for the Spurs to clear the space, they are a little under the cap, and trading the one year contracts of guys like Parker and Gasol would not be difficult, the question is whether SA would actually want to do this as opposed to going for a cheaper PG. SA is more likely to do the later.

[og15]

The Chris Paul to San Antonio thing is such a reach. There's literally a 0% chance that it happens.

He's not engineering a big Payday only to go elsewhere and get paid less.

He's not fighting on the players behalf as the president of the PA only to leave over 50 million dollars on the table.

The gymnastics that the spurs would have to go through just to get to the $50 Million dollar deficit is crazy. Pau and David Lee would be ridiculous to opt out of their current deals, it's just a lot of fluff that have no real merit behind them.

The only thing is, how much are the 1st round early eating away at him-killing him inside? Blake is regressing and not around for the post season. Doc the horrid GM has wasted his prime and could get worse the longer he stays as head of the front office.

If he were to stay it would strictly be for the money. If we don't get Melo or some youngsters don't develop the team will be sh*t for a few years to come. Paul knows this. It also seems like all the players on the team can't stand the sight of each other. Its up in the air on whether he stays or leaves if you ask me. Pop, Kawhi, the organization, the scouting and drafting, etc has to entice him. The Spurs are definitely in play for Paul if you ask me.

What if Blake decides he isn't coming back, does Paul come back? What is the Clippers backup plan?

Clippers could still make the Carmelo trade, but what else? I think it is possible to clear up to $20 million or so if Blake leaves and they can move Jamal, so who would be the target, someone like Paul Millsap? Serge Ibaka? No other interesting options after that unless you go cheaper and start looking at a guy like Mirotic. The question is how do you move Jamal? Trade him to Brooklyn along with something like a second round pick?

Added some cap numbers to the first post, will edit if any corrections need to be made:

Salary Cap: $101 million
Luxury Tax: $121 million
Rookie Minimum Salary 2017: $815,615

Committed Salary:
DeAndre Jordan: $22,642,350
Jamal Crawford: $14,246,988
Austin Rivers: $11,825,000
Wesley Johnson: $5,881,260
Brice Johnson: $1,331,160
Diamond Stone: $1,312,611
Paul Pierce (retired): $1,096,080
Dead Cap: $1,412,964
Total: $59,748,413
(Roster Charge = Rookie Minimum x 6 = $4,893,690)

Cap Holds:
Chris Paul: $34,303,242
Blake Griffin: $30,300,000
JJ Redick: $11,066,250
Luc Richard Mbah A Moute: $2,863,900
Alan Anderson: $1,471,382
Raymond Felton: $1,471,382
Marreese Speights: $1,471,382
Total: $82,950,538

Maximum Possible Cap Space:
$36,357,897

______________________________________________________________

Blake decides to leave:

$93,236,040 with Chris Paul cap hold = $7,763,960 cap space
Chris Paul cap hold + move Jamal ($14,246,988) for cap space = $21,195,333 cap space

Paul decides to leave:

$90,864,028 with Blake Griffin cap hold = $11,767,202 cap space
Blake Griffin cap hold + move Jamal for cap space = $25,198,575 cap space

That Jamal Crawford contract is really handicapping the team right now, what a terrible decision giving him more than one year, or at worst two years with a second year partial guarantee.

Blake leaves, then theoretically if Jamal could be moved for cap, you could pursue someone like Serge Ibaka, then trade JJ Redick (S&T - $18 million) and Austin Rivers ($11.2 million) for Carmelo $29 million.

Chris Paul /
Wesley Johnson /
Carmelo Anthony /
Serge Ibaka / Brice Johnson
DeAndre Jordan / Diamond Stone

This would put the Clippers at about $119 million in salary with 8 players. Sign a guy like Tiaggo Splitter for the minimum so he can revitalize his career. Bring back Reggie Bullock on the minimum as a backup wing and see if you can get Felton back again as a backup PG or someone older even like Jose Calderon.
____

Paul leaves, then Carmelo no longer is an option. It's hard to see who the best FA pickup would be here. Getting a PG like Teague or Hill or Holiday doesn't make the team better than when you had Paul. If we didn't understand the salary cap we would say "well they will make $10 million less than Paul, so that gives more room", but that's not how it works, Clippers are over the salary cap still and have no more money to spend whether they pay Paul $36 million or clear the space to pay one of those guys $23-25 million. If you want more balance you have to split the $25 million among two players, but players are expensive. You probably couldn't even get two guys like Bogdanovic and a PG (only guys like Rondo and Williams available at that price). Other option is to get an older guy on a short contract just as a stop gap, someone like Dwyane Wade for example. Gordon Hayward is a pipe dream, and even if you could also move Johnson for cap and have at least close to enough to sign him, he's going to a pretty depleted team that's not better than where he currently is. Danilo Gallinari is an option as a SF, but he might not be ideal and injuries are an issue. Another option is to use the cap space in a trade, maybe for someone like Eric Bledsoe , but he's too injured all the time anyways.

(Jeff Teague / George Hill / Jrue Holiday)
Austin Rivers
Wesley Johnson
Blake Griffin / Brice Johnson
DeAndre Jordan / Diamond Stone

or

Austin Rivers
Dwyane Wade
Wesley Johnson
Blake Griffin / Brice Johnson
DeAndre Jordan / Diamond Stone

or

Austin Rivers
Wesley Johnson
Danilo Gallinari
Blake Griffin / Brice Johnson
DeAndre Jordan / Diamond Stone

Probably better off not signing any current free agent to a long term contract if Paul leaves. Nothing seems too appealing.

[Wammy Giveaway]

Added some cap numbers to the first post, will edit if any corrections need to be made:

...

Probably better off not signing any current free agent to a long term contract if Paul leaves. Nothing seems too appealing.

What would be the cap situation like if both Paul and Griffin leave?

[og15]

Added some cap numbers to the first post, will edit if any corrections need to be made:

...

Probably better off not signing any current free agent to a long term contract if Paul leaves. Nothing seems too appealing.

What would be the cap situation like if both Paul and Griffin leave?

The "max cap space possible". If you want to add trading Jamal Crawford for cap space to that, it would be about $50 million in cap space available, so about one max contract is what the Clippers can do without both of them.

[Captain Ballmer]

We are not going to sign any max. player but CP3 or BG. I don't think any other player who truly deserves the max. contract(such as Hayward, Lowry) would be consider us as a top 4-5 destinations.

If one of BG or CP3 or together bolt the team, than we should try to look for the options to trade Jamal without a pick and get a possible player who might present value in the future. I know it's sound weird but getting a guy like Brandon Knight from Phoenix should not be that hard, they might be interested with cap relief. we can endorse Knight's playing time with the absense of Jamal and Redick, he would have a chance to gain his value and then at 2018 or 2019 summer, we will trade him again for a 1st Round Pick to a team looking for scorer guard like Lakers did with Lou williams and Houston Rockets trade. Finally that awful Jamal deal would be net us a 1st Round pick with solid GM work only if we had one That's kind of move it's what we should look for on the market to gain some leverage next two years.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Knight is a good player. I'd don't understand why Phoenix didn't find a way to give him more minutes