Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

[PhilBlackson]

I don't really want Bam, but I wouldn't be mad about taking him either. The guys I don't want are guys like Semi who apart from 3 point shooting, have underwhelming production even as juniors and seniors in college. Personally, I'm the 1 guy left that still prefers Rabb to many of the guys likely available, but otherwise I'd be happier with someone with a potentially higher ceiling and Bam could be one of those guys.

Rabb is an interesting player, but too much of a throwback to me. I looked at how he played against Kyle Kuzma and I was kind of shocked at how he was dominated:

Kuzma
Pts-Rebs
23-14
12-4
23-3

Rabb
Pts-Rebs
12-14
8-8
12-6

Kuzma is older, but I thought Rabb would be killing it on the boards. I don't know how long it will take for him to adjust to the pace of the NBA.

Toronto is a good situation for Rabb because we have a great development program. He also shares the same agent as Derozan and is a Cali guy so I could DDR pushing for him. He has that competitive edge to his game that I think Derozan will help to foster. I just don't think he progressed at all this past year, but it may have been playing at California U.

I think Semi is the can't miss prospect despite being an older guy. Mike Schmitz, the Director of Scouting at DX even said during a podcast that Semi Ojeleye is going to be the guy that we look back on as the draft steal.

Semi from a size and skill point of view is exactly where the NBA is headed (Jae Crowder type). Ojeleye is already ready from a size and conditioning POV. He is plug and play and I could see him slotting into Patrick Patterson's role easily. Maybe he will shoot even better that 2Pat.

I have zero interest in Rabb anymore, the post has become all but obsolete.

You have to wait for him to develop a 3pt shot and he's actually not that quick laterally in comparison to other actual stretch 4s not to mention has very limited ballhandling skills, he's almost like a JV of PFs -- a great pick 5-10 years ago, today not so much.



As for Semi, I love the guy's attitude, like his versatility etc but it's a real pet peeve that people keep lumping him together in sentences with MUCH BETTER defenders. Semi is an average at best defender. Posters keep throwing out names like Tucker, Draymond and now you with Crowder when he simply is not like them.

The reason why he's so low in the draft is Semi is 6'5 w/o shoes and DOESN'T have a long wingspan to make up for it. He is both shorter and has less length than DeMar DeRozan, let that sink in. Draymond has a 7'1 wingspan which helps him compensate for being a shorter player and he has incredible defensive instincts, Semi does not. I'm not saying I don't like Ojeleye, I love him as a 2nd rd pick but there needs to be some better perspective why he's projected where he is.

[LonZoBallin]

What the hell are you talking about "by my logic"?! lol

Don't be a troll.

I said nothing about hitting 3s and in fact I said I thought Masai was wrong to want to bring back Lowry which OPPOSES his new found philosphy on what our team supposedly needs to be. But as suspected your post offers nothing in the way of facts to try to dispute what I've said but rather a weak attempt to bait. It's FACT that Masai said he would like to bring back Lowry, it's in the year end presser amongst various other interviews where he stated as such. Don't be mad that your day dreams of Dennis Smith Jr are nothing more than that.

Again, he's not going to tell exactly what he's going to do.

If you believe everything that Management says is FACT then I guess you assume we will hit 32 3's next year too?

It's one thing to not tell EXACTLY what they're going/want to do, it's another to do the exact OPPOSITE.

Masai has...

1. Stated his full intention to bring back Lowry which is a DIRECT opposition to YOUR desired outcome
2. Emphasized ad nauseam that he wants to win now and isn't waving the white towel because of LeBron or the Warriors
3. Wants to make THIS team a 3pt shooting team BECAUSE he believes that's how he can win NOW
4. Has held on to Casey to give him another shot to win...when?! NOW

This is also without even mentioning the obvious of re-signing DeMar to a long term contract and him wanting bring back Ibaka.

None of his words or actions coincide with YOUR desire to tank/trade up for Dennis Smith Jr. There are absolutely NO indications at all that Masai has any intentions of going next year with a team IN a rebuild state, none. EVERYTHING points to (a futile) attempt to re-configure our crap and see if they can do it again.

My theory is we got smoked by the Cavs! We have no ways to improve! All our core players are only going to get worse from here on out.

Why would it be such a bad thing to blow it up?

[PhilBlackson]

Again, he's not going to tell exactly what he's going to do.

If you believe everything that Management says is FACT then I guess you assume we will hit 32 3's next year too?

It's one thing to not tell EXACTLY what they're going/want to do, it's another to do the exact OPPOSITE.

Masai has...

1. Stated his full intention to bring back Lowry which is a DIRECT opposition to YOUR desired outcome
2. Emphasized ad nauseam that he wants to win now and isn't waving the white towel because of LeBron or the Warriors
3. Wants to make THIS team a 3pt shooting team BECAUSE he believes that's how he can win NOW
4. Has held on to Casey to give him another shot to win...when?! NOW

This is also without even mentioning the obvious of re-signing DeMar to a long term contract and him wanting bring back Ibaka.

None of his words or actions coincide with YOUR desire to tank/trade up for Dennis Smith Jr. There are absolutely NO indications at all that Masai has any intentions of going next year with a team IN a rebuild state, none. EVERYTHING points to (a futile) attempt to re-configure our crap and see if they can do it again.

My theory is we got smoked by the Cavs! We have no ways to improve! All our core players are only going to get worse from here on out.

Why would it be such a bad thing to blow it up?

Read my multiple replies after.

I'm agreeance that we should, I'm simply stating the reality that our management will not and has shown no signs or intentions of doing so. Everything they have done and have publicly stated has shown that they fully intend to continue forward with what they're doing while foolishly believing it's a matter of "tweaking" not rebuilding. Masai is going to use this NEXT year to force this core's hand to put up or shut up. So he is doing exactly what you're saying but we won't see it start until NEXT year hence why DS Jr being here is nothing but a pipedream.

When the inevitable happens and Casey falls short he will be let go to make way for the coach we've been grooming to work with young guys (Stack) and Lowry, DeRozan, Ibaka will all be in locked in contracts to be used as trade chips after our impending beatdown from the Cavs (could even be the Bucks or WAS) because yes THEN all leads have been exhausted, there will be validation that there are no ways to get past them with this core. But nonetheless, the rebuild isn't happening yet as much as you may want DS Jr or not.

[Wally West]

Not saying I like Adebayo but if a team takes him he really looks like he has a skill set where you can try to develop him to be like Blake Griffin.

Doesn't have that sheer athleticism, ball handling or basketball IQ to pull this off. Maybe another Tristan Thompson.

[Wally West]

I think this is the best scouting staff we've had in our history tbh. I still believe in Masai

Based on what, exactly? The drafting has been mediocre at best, and Masai's one big FA signing was one of the worst in Franchise history.

Clearly you don't remember who we had before as our director of scouting.

Jim Kelly on Terrence Williams back in 2009

"i really felt like he could shoot the ball."
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willite01.html

[OAKLEY_2]

Looks closer to DeAndre Jordan than BG.

If you only look at how Calipari allowed him to play sure...

That's a very oversimplified stance. However if you look at Cal's track record of how he completely underutilizes his big men offensively ie/ Davis, KAT and now starting look like Skal, there's fair reason to believe it's happened to Bam as well. I'm not saying Bam is anywhere near the level of Davis and KAT but what I am saying is Cal sucks at showcasing his big man's skills especially if they are not playing like traditional back to the basket big men. Multiple scouts now have pointed out that Adebayo is showing a lot more ballhandling skills and shooting touch than we seen at UK, coincidence?! I don't think so.

Again I said "develop him to BE LIKE..." not that he would be as good as Blake Griffin and given his physical traits and apparent skillset I fail to see why not. Bam's 2pt% (60%) and FT% (65%) are far more on par with Blake's numbers in college (62% and 59% respectively) than DeAndre, so unlike Jordan he has a much better shooting touch AND ballhandling skills. Then combine that with their physical traits...

Blake Griffin
6'8 1/2 w/o shoes (6'10 in shoes), weight 248pds, wingspan 6'11, no step vert 32 inches, max vert 35 inches

Bam Adebayo
6'8 3/4 w/o shoes (6'10 in shoes), weight 243pds, wingspan 7'2, no step vert 33.5 inches, max vert 38.5 inches

Remind me again what makes him more similar to DeAndre Jordan?!

I don't really want Bam, but I wouldn't be mad about taking him either. The guys I don't want are guys like Semi who apart from 3 point shooting, have underwhelming production even as juniors and seniors in college. Personally, I'm the 1 guy left that still prefers Rabb to many of the guys likely available, but otherwise I'd be happier with someone with a potentially higher ceiling and Bam could be one of those guys.

Rabb has a higher ceiling than Semi.

[PhilBlackson]

Not saying I like Adebayo but if a team takes him he really looks like he has a skill set where you can try to develop him to be like Blake Griffin.

Doesn't have that sheer athleticism, ball handling or basketball IQ to pull this off. Maybe another Tristan Thompson.

I swear people are reading my post as "to become Blake Griffin" because I'm saying to be LIKE...maybe I should have thrown in Poorman's. No offence but the first point makes no sense as Bam actually tested out to have BETTER athleticism with both a higher no step and max vertical than Blake and the second part it's as if some of you are just glazing over that there have now been multiple reports that Bam's ballhandling is much better than what he was able to showcase at UK.

The part I'll give you is the IQ but to play devil's advocate again Cal did not allow Bam to play his game. He was forced to play as a defensive anchor C which is why I think so many of you have it twisted with these "Tristan" & "DeAndre" comparisons. The FACT is Bam is a better shooter than both as evidenced most noticably his FT% which again scouts have pointed out that Adebayo is showing much more shooting touch than they realized. So I'll say it again, I'll give you that he probably doesn't have the bball IQ we are in agreement there but the idea I'm throwing out is to DEVELOP him LIKE (does not mean become lol) Blake or let's just say a POORMAN'S Blake because physically they are nearly identical from height, length and athleticism and again from what scouts keep saying he is apparently a much better ballhandler and shooter than we realized and I'm saying that is a result of Cal who has stifled nearly every big man with perimeter skills he's had.

[Rapcity_11]

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Mark Titus says about college basketball. In particular, it bugs me that so many great college players get discounted in favour of unproven potential when it comes to the draft.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-casual-fan-guide-justin-jackson-frank-mason-667bd53c32

Josh Hart, Villanova
Hart was a do-everything guard for a Villanova team that had about four and a half healthy players last season and won 32 games despite dealing with all the pressure that comes with being the defending national champ. He averaged 18.7 points, 6.4 rebounds, and 2.9 assists for the Wildcats and would have been the national player of the year if he hadn’t made the fatal mistake of being too good from Villanova’s opening game, which put him on the predictably dumb college basketball trajectory of having fans and media members fatigued by his greatness by the time February rolled around.

Frank Mason III, Kansas
Speaking of improbable rises to college basketball stardom, I think I speak for all of Middle America when I say that every NBA GM should be drawn and quartered if Mason’s name isn’t called on draft night. I just don’t think I can handle living in a world where the national player of the year is not even considered one of the 60 best NBA prospects.

Both these guys have become so underrated in the draft process I almost don't even know where to begin. How about here: I'd take either of these guys at 23 and run, draft experts be damned.

Edit: also thought this was a cool idea:

The NBA changes the one-and-done rule to a two-year thing (two-and-through?) in which prospects must be two years removed from high school before they’re eligible to enter the draft … with two crucial exceptions. First, if a freshman player is named a college first-, second-, or third-team All-American, he can jump straight to the NBA like he would in the current system. That way the guys who are ready for the next level don’t have to waste an additional year in college; the NBA doesn’t have to bother trying to make sense of a chaotic revolving door of talent; and the freshmen who get bad advice from people in their inner circles don’t keep shooting themselves in the foot and ending up in places like Poland when they could’ve become college stars if they had simply been more patient.

But isn’t there a clear reason these guys aren’t being picked high (or at all)?

All of these dudes have won some combination of end of season awards in the past decade:

Trey Burke
McDermott
Kaminsky
Hansbrough
Evan Turner
Jimmer
Adam Morrison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men%27s_college_basketball_national_player_of_the_year_awards

Shabazz Napier is also another recent example of a similar type player who didn’t win any awards.

I dunno. **** ain't easy.

[VanWest82]

My theory is we got smoked by the Cavs! We have no ways to improve! All our core players are only going to get worse from here on out.

Why would it be such a bad thing to blow it up?

Mind if I take a crack at answering this? You're right, we're probably maxed out as the second best team in the east who gets smoked by the Cavs every year (though I disagree about Derozan, who will very likely continue to improve). But blowing it up is only something you do if the conditions are right, or you have no other choice. Think about our roster and all the moves we'd have to make to properly tank.

1. Let all our free agents walk. Sign and trades are dead due to changes in 2011 CBA, so we'd be letting Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker, and Patterson all go for nothing.
2. You'd have to trade Derozan. He's too good to let us lose enough where we could get a top 5 pick. But he's tricky to build around, and as many have said (posters, NBA writers - both local and US, sources from inside various organizations, etc.) there really isn't much of a market for him right now. People assume we'd get a top 5 pick for him. That's not happening. History suggests you get 30 cents on the dollar when you trade stars. What would we realistically get for a divisive player who just flamed out in the POs for the third year in a row?
3. Look at the rest of our roster. Outside of the odd gaffe (i.e. Bruno) the organization has been diligent about surrounding our stars with high end role players. Guys like Poeltl, Siakam, Norm, Wright, FVV, JV...none of them have star ceilings. They're solid complimentary guys, assuming they reach their potential. And there's nothing wrong with that btw, in fact it's amazing we've drafted so many useful players given our draft positions. But the overall point is once you get past our stars and vets, the youngsters aren't guys you could potentially build around.

If you decide to tank when the cupboard is basically bare, it's not going to be pretty. That's how 5-10 year rebuilds happen. And make no mistake, that's the position we'd be in.

If you're going to do it, Portland is a solid model. Yes they lost Wes Matthews and LA (and then traded Batum), but Lillard and CJ were already on the roster. We don't have anyone like that. So when you look at it from that lens, rolling it back for another 2-3 years of pseudo-contending while we look improve on our future assets (i.e. picks and young players with upside) seems like the better alternative.

[OAKLEY_2]

I don't really want Bam, but I wouldn't be mad about taking him either. The guys I don't want are guys like Semi who apart from 3 point shooting, have underwhelming production even as juniors and seniors in college. Personally, I'm the 1 guy left that still prefers Rabb to many of the guys likely available, but otherwise I'd be happier with someone with a potentially higher ceiling and Bam could be one of those guys.

Rabb is an interesting player, but too much of a throwback to me. I looked at how he played against Kyle Kuzma and I was kind of shocked at how he was dominated:

Kuzma
Pts-Rebs
23-14
12-4
23-3

Rabb
Pts-Rebs
12-14
8-8
12-6

Kuzma is older, but I thought Rabb would be killing it on the boards. I don't know how long it will take for him to adjust to the pace of the NBA.

Toronto is a good situation for Rabb because we have a great development program. He also shares the same agent as Derozan and is a Cali guy so I could DDR pushing for him. He has that competitive edge to his game that I think Derozan will help to foster. I just don't think he progressed at all this past year, but it may have been playing at California U.

I think Semi is the can't miss prospect despite being an older guy. Mike Schmitz, the Director of Scouting at DX even said during a podcast that Semi Ojeleye is going to be the guy that we look back on as the draft steal.

Semi from a size and skill point of view is exactly where the NBA is headed (Jae Crowder type). Ojeleye is already ready from a size and conditioning POV. He is plug and play and I could see him slotting into Patrick Patterson's role easily. Maybe he will shoot even better that 2Pat.

I have zero interest in Rabb anymore, the post has become all but obsolete.

You have to wait for him to develop a 3pt shot and he's actually not that quick laterally in comparison to other actual stretch 4s not to mention has very limited ballhandling skills, he's almost like a JV of PFs -- a great pick 5-10 years ago, today not so much.



As for Semi, I love the guy's attitude, like his versatility etc but it's a real pet peeve that people keep lumping him together in sentences with MUCH BETTER defenders. Semi is an average at best defender. Posters keep throwing out names like Tucker, Draymond and now you with Crowder when he simply is not like them.

The reason why he's so low in the draft is Semi is 6'5 w/o shoes and DOESN'T have a long wingspan to make up for it. He is both shorter and has less length than DeMar DeRozan, let that sink in. Draymond has a 7'1 wingspan which helps him compensate for being a shorter player and he has incredible defensive instincts, Semi does not. I'm not saying I don't like Ojeleye, I love him as a 2nd rd pick but there needs to be some better perspective why he's projected where he is.

Do not see much "twitch" with Semi but I see it with Rabb.

[PhilBlackson]

Rabb is an interesting player, but too much of a throwback to me. I looked at how he played against Kyle Kuzma and I was kind of shocked at how he was dominated:

Kuzma
Pts-Rebs
23-14
12-4
23-3

Rabb
Pts-Rebs
12-14
8-8
12-6

Kuzma is older, but I thought Rabb would be killing it on the boards. I don't know how long it will take for him to adjust to the pace of the NBA.

Toronto is a good situation for Rabb because we have a great development program. He also shares the same agent as Derozan and is a Cali guy so I could DDR pushing for him. He has that competitive edge to his game that I think Derozan will help to foster. I just don't think he progressed at all this past year, but it may have been playing at California U.

I think Semi is the can't miss prospect despite being an older guy. Mike Schmitz, the Director of Scouting at DX even said during a podcast that Semi Ojeleye is going to be the guy that we look back on as the draft steal.

Semi from a size and skill point of view is exactly where the NBA is headed (Jae Crowder type). Ojeleye is already ready from a size and conditioning POV. He is plug and play and I could see him slotting into Patrick Patterson's role easily. Maybe he will shoot even better that 2Pat.

I have zero interest in Rabb anymore, the post has become all but obsolete.

You have to wait for him to develop a 3pt shot and he's actually not that quick laterally in comparison to other actual stretch 4s not to mention has very limited ballhandling skills, he's almost like a JV of PFs -- a great pick 5-10 years ago, today not so much.



As for Semi, I love the guy's attitude, like his versatility etc but it's a real pet peeve that people keep lumping him together in sentences with MUCH BETTER defenders. Semi is an average at best defender. Posters keep throwing out names like Tucker, Draymond and now you with Crowder when he simply is not like them.

The reason why he's so low in the draft is Semi is 6'5 w/o shoes and DOESN'T have a long wingspan to make up for it. He is both shorter and has less length than DeMar DeRozan, let that sink in. Draymond has a 7'1 wingspan which helps him compensate for being a shorter player and he has incredible defensive instincts, Semi does not. I'm not saying I don't like Ojeleye, I love him as a 2nd rd pick but there needs to be some better perspective why he's projected where he is.

Do not see much "twitch" with Semi but I see it with Rabb.

I don't see it with either player lol I hope we don't take either.

However Semi has tested out as being MUCH better athlete at the combine so I have no idea what you're basing your opinion on.

[Wally West]

Not saying I like Adebayo but if a team takes him he really looks like he has a skill set where you can try to develop him to be like Blake Griffin.

Doesn't have that sheer athleticism, ball handling or basketball IQ to pull this off. Maybe another Tristan Thompson.

I swear people are reading my post as "to become Blake Griffin" because I'm saying to be LIKE...maybe I should have thrown in Poorman's. No offence but the first point makes no sense as Bam actually tested out to have BETTER athleticism with both a higher no step and max vertical than Blake and the second part it's as if some of you are just glazing over that there have now been multiple reports that Bam's ballhandling is much better than what he was able to showcase at UK.

The part I'll give you is the IQ but to play devil's advocate again Cal did not allow Bam to play his game. He was forced to play as a defensive anchor C which is why I think so many of you have it twisted with these "Tristan" & "DeAndre" comparisons. The FACT is Bam is a better shooter than both as evidenced most noticably his FT% which again scouts have pointed out that Adebayo is showing much more shooting touch than they realized. So I'll say it again, I'll give you that he probably doesn't have the bball IQ we are in agreement there but the idea I'm throwing out is to DEVELOP him LIKE (does not mean become lol) Blake or let's just say a POORMAN'S Blake because physically they are nearly identical from height, length and athleticism and again from what scouts keep saying he is apparently a much better ballhandler and shooter than we realized and I'm saying that is a result of Cal who has stifled nearly every big man with perimeter skills he's had.

Ball handling and athleticism look great when you're not in game but in game? Jaylen Brown and Ben Gordon are two guys that immediately came to my mind that looked great with their ball handling and athleticism off the court in college respectively but it hasn't (there's still time for Browm) and didn't (never for Gordon) translate in the NBA.

I will agree on this though. Coach Cal's system has hid the immense talent some of his players have had so there's definitely a chance Bam eclipses the projections of Tristan and become something more.

[VanWest82]

But isn’t there a clear reason these guys aren’t being picked high (or at all)?

All of these dudes have won some combination of end of season awards in the past decade:

Trey Burke
McDermott
Kaminsky
Hansbrough
Evan Turner
Jimmer
Adam Morrison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men%27s_college_basketball_national_player_of_the_year_awards

Shabazz Napier is also another recent example of a similar type player who didn’t win any awards.

I dunno. **** ain't easy.

People management in general ain't easy. The list of flops on either side (proven vs. potential) is much larger than list of guys who made it. But I'd still rather go with production and proven feel for the game over unproven potential unless it's clear the player has no business playing in the NBA due to size or athletic ability.

Edit: just wanted to add that I don't think Evan Turner is a bad player, just being misused. He's a point forward. He needs the ball. For some reason only Boston got that figured out. Also, are we sure McDermott sucks? I still think it works out for him on a high IQ team.

[Blasphemy]

If Harry Giles is available, do we take him? How bad was his injury?

[C_Money]

I with they would move the 3 point line back and make it more like the NBA. It would be so much easier to scout these guys.

[PhilBlackson]

If Harry Giles is available, do we take him? How bad was his injury?

INJURIES (as in multiple).

He tore his ACL, MCL and meniscus in his left knee.

Then his ACL in his right knee 2 years later.

[Dalek]

I think Semi is the can't miss prospect despite being an older guy. Mike Schmitz, the Director of Scouting at DX even said during a podcast that Semi Ojeleye is going to be the guy that we look back on as the draft steal.

Semi from a size and skill point of view is exactly where the NBA is headed (Jae Crowder type). Ojeleye is already ready from a size and conditioning POV. He is plug and play and I could see him slotting into Patrick Patterson's role easily. Maybe he will shoot even better that 2Pat.

I don't get the love for Semi. Not saying you're comparing him to Pat, but that's a terrible comparison. Pat is 6'9 with a 7'2 wingspan and ELITE twinkle toes quickness guarding the perimeter. Semi is 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan and average quickness guarding the perimeter.

Maybe Semi is a better shooter than I think he is. If he's Ryan Anderson out there then let's go for it. But I don't think he's Ryan Anderson, unless we're talking about his inability to play the wing, in which case he's Ryan Anderson. People talk about his positional diversity as this huge asset, and I'm just not sure what they're seeing. If anything, it's his lack of positional diversity that's the problem. He's a very undersized stretch four. He doesn't have the ball skills or the quickness to play wing, and he doesn't have the size to play center. Maybe he'll make a similar transformation to PJ TUcker, though that guy could always guard wings. Can you imagine Semi trying to stay in front of Paul George?

But more problematic than all of that is his complete lack of feel for the game. He beasted against college players because he's a man child, and was able to out muscle them. That's not going to happen against NBA caliber PFs. We're already a low IQ basketball team. Need guys who know how to play!

Maybe you are expecting too much out of your 23rd pick. I think his role is to spot-up shoot and play strong defense against wings and PFs. Semi is 244 and has great lateral quickness and hops to play a similar role to Patrick Patterson in being able to switch on pick and rolls. Maybe he doesn't have his size, but he is a skilled player. Like I mentioned, he is a Jae Crowder type of player.

Jae Crowder (Marquette): 6-6 1/2 with a 6-9 wingspan, 241 lbs at the time of the draft (Stats: 14 pts 7 rebs 36% from 3)
Semi Ojeleye (SMU): 6-6 3/4 with a 6-9 3/4 wingspan, 241 lbs. (Stats: 19 pt 7 rebs 42% from 3)

The difference is his Semi's athletic gifts:

Semi Ojeleye of SMU posted an impressive 40.5 Max Vertical Leap (tied for fifth best), but perhaps the more significant numbers for him were the 10.58 seconds he posted in the lane agility testing and 3.16 seconds he posted in the three-quarter court sprint which rank third and eighth best overall respectively. Ojeleye weighed in at strong 241 pounds yesterday which he has proved is not too high of a number to compromise his athletic ability. He's a highly unique physical specimen, ranking in the 95th percentile or better in those three categories in our extensive database.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-combine-athletic-testing-analysis-5930/

Forget where you think he should be slotted on Toronto. If you could draft a more athletic Jae Crowder, I think you would do it. Semi was his team's best player and has shown tremendous progress in college. I think he will be a great NBA player and great fit in Toronto.

[PhilBlackson]

I think Semi is the can't miss prospect despite being an older guy. Mike Schmitz, the Director of Scouting at DX even said during a podcast that Semi Ojeleye is going to be the guy that we look back on as the draft steal.

Semi from a size and skill point of view is exactly where the NBA is headed (Jae Crowder type). Ojeleye is already ready from a size and conditioning POV. He is plug and play and I could see him slotting into Patrick Patterson's role easily. Maybe he will shoot even better that 2Pat.

I don't get the love for Semi. Not saying you're comparing him to Pat, but that's a terrible comparison. Pat is 6'9 with a 7'2 wingspan and ELITE twinkle toes quickness guarding the perimeter. Semi is 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan and average quickness guarding the perimeter.

Maybe Semi is a better shooter than I think he is. If he's Ryan Anderson out there then let's go for it. But I don't think he's Ryan Anderson, unless we're talking about his inability to play the wing, in which case he's Ryan Anderson. People talk about his positional diversity as this huge asset, and I'm just not sure what they're seeing. If anything, it's his lack of positional diversity that's the problem. He's a very undersized stretch four. He doesn't have the ball skills or the quickness to play wing, and he doesn't have the size to play center. Maybe he'll make a similar transformation to PJ TUcker, though that guy could always guard wings. Can you imagine Semi trying to stay in front of Paul George?

But more problematic than all of that is his complete lack of feel for the game. He beasted against college players because he's a man child, and was able to out muscle them. That's not going to happen against NBA caliber PFs. We're already a low IQ basketball team. Need guys who know how to play!

Maybe you are expecting too much out of your 23rd pick. I think his role is to spot-up shoot and play strong defense against wings and PFs. Semi is 244 and has great lateral quickness and hops to play a similar role to Patrick Patterson in being able to switch on pick and rolls. Maybe he doesn't have his size, but he is a skilled player. Like I mentioned, he is a Jae Crowder type of player.

Jae Crowder (Marquette): 6-6 1/2 with a 6-9 wingspan, 241 lbs at the time of the draft (Stats: 14 pts 7 rebs 36% from 3)
Semi Ojeleye (SMU): 6-6 3/4 with a 6-9 3/4 wingspan, 241 lbs. (Stats: 19 pt 7 rebs 42% from 3)

The difference is his Semi's athletic gifts:

Semi Ojeleye of SMU posted an impressive 40.5 Max Vertical Leap (tied for fifth best), but perhaps the more significant numbers for him were the 10.58 seconds he posted in the lane agility testing and 3.16 seconds he posted in the three-quarter court sprint which rank third and eighth best overall respectively. Ojeleye weighed in at strong 241 pounds yesterday which he has proved is not too high of a number to compromise his athletic ability. He's a highly unique physical specimen, ranking in the 95th percentile or better in those three categories in our extensive database.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-combine-athletic-testing-analysis-5930/

Forget where you think he should be slotted on Toronto. If you could draft a more athletic Jae Crowder, I think you would do it. Semi was his team's best player and has shown tremendous progress in college. I think he will be a great NBA player and great fit in Toronto.

Again why do you keep throwing out Crowder as a comparison when Semi is not known as a defender other then just trying to hype him up???

Crowder's best asset is his defence, take that away from him and his value to a team is MUCH lower.

[HeadtopChunes]

I don't get the love for Semi. Not saying you're comparing him to Pat, but that's a terrible comparison. Pat is 6'9 with a 7'2 wingspan and ELITE twinkle toes quickness guarding the perimeter. Semi is 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan and average quickness guarding the perimeter.

Maybe Semi is a better shooter than I think he is. If he's Ryan Anderson out there then let's go for it. But I don't think he's Ryan Anderson, unless we're talking about his inability to play the wing, in which case he's Ryan Anderson. People talk about his positional diversity as this huge asset, and I'm just not sure what they're seeing. If anything, it's his lack of positional diversity that's the problem. He's a very undersized stretch four. He doesn't have the ball skills or the quickness to play wing, and he doesn't have the size to play center. Maybe he'll make a similar transformation to PJ TUcker, though that guy could always guard wings. Can you imagine Semi trying to stay in front of Paul George?

But more problematic than all of that is his complete lack of feel for the game. He beasted against college players because he's a man child, and was able to out muscle them. That's not going to happen against NBA caliber PFs. We're already a low IQ basketball team. Need guys who know how to play!

Maybe you are expecting too much out of your 23rd pick. I think his role is to spot-up shoot and play strong defense against wings and PFs. Semi is 244 and has great lateral quickness and hops to play a similar role to Patrick Patterson in being able to switch on pick and rolls. Maybe he doesn't have his size, but he is a skilled player. Like I mentioned, he is a Jae Crowder type of player.

Jae Crowder (Marquette): 6-6 1/2 with a 6-9 wingspan, 241 lbs at the time of the draft (Stats: 14 pts 7 rebs 36% from 3)
Semi Ojeleye (SMU): 6-6 3/4 with a 6-9 3/4 wingspan, 241 lbs. (Stats: 19 pt 7 rebs 42% from 3)

The difference is his Semi's athletic gifts:

Semi Ojeleye of SMU posted an impressive 40.5 Max Vertical Leap (tied for fifth best), but perhaps the more significant numbers for him were the 10.58 seconds he posted in the lane agility testing and 3.16 seconds he posted in the three-quarter court sprint which rank third and eighth best overall respectively. Ojeleye weighed in at strong 241 pounds yesterday which he has proved is not too high of a number to compromise his athletic ability. He's a highly unique physical specimen, ranking in the 95th percentile or better in those three categories in our extensive database.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-combine-athletic-testing-analysis-5930/

Forget where you think he should be slotted on Toronto. If you could draft a more athletic Jae Crowder, I think you would do it. Semi was his team's best player and has shown tremendous progress in college. I think he will be a great NBA player and great fit in Toronto.

Again why do you keep throwing out Crowder as a comparison when Semi is not known as a defender other then just trying to hype him up???

Crowder's best asset is his defence, take that away from him and his value to a team is MUCH lower.

Semi isn't a bad defender. But the stats aren't there. Every scouting report has him as "fundamentally sound, with great footwork and lateral quickness". He doesn't get steals or blocks. That's a fair criticism. I asked SMU fans about this and basically what they said it was his job was to not get into foul trouble on D and carry the offense. Which is true he has a very high usuage rate. Add that onto playing PF in a zone defense his stats are definitely compromised.

Crowder is a popular comparison because besides the defensive stats they are pretty similar. In body shape, roles, playstyle etc. Maybe a more atheltic Doug McDermott would fit your tastes better. But Semi is going to be at least an average defender when his role is more limited.

[Dalek]

As for Semi, I love the guy's attitude, like his versatility etc but it's a real pet peeve that people keep lumping him together in sentences with MUCH BETTER defenders. Semi is an average at best defender. Posters keep throwing out names like Tucker, Draymond and now you with Crowder when he simply is not like them.

The reason why he's so low in the draft is Semi is 6'5 w/o shoes and DOESN'T have a long wingspan to make up for it. He is both shorter and has less length than DeMar DeRozan, let that sink in. Draymond has a 7'1 wingspan which helps him compensate for being a shorter player and he has incredible defensive instincts, Semi does not. I'm not saying I don't like Ojeleye, I love him as a 2nd rd pick but there needs to be some better perspective why he's projected where he is.

You are right, it is not fair to say that he is at the level of Draymond or Crowder. But you have some great examples of undersized NBA players doing well and outplaying their draft spot.

What works against Semi is that he has been playing in a poor division and playing only as a PF. He is going to have to take time to adapt to perimeter defense. Yes, the NBA is full of long PFs and SFs, so he will have to work on his shot contests.

Why I think it works is that he is a freak athlete (being 240 and being able to leap 40+ inches is pretty crazy). He was an honour role student who had a well-known work ethic of just living in the gym. I think he will put in the work to be a very good player.