What is our biggest need this off-season?

[pepe1991]

It's funny how you think your opinion is right because of how you interpret stats. What's funny about it is that multiple scouts and commentators see Isaac like I do. Yet we are supposed to take the opinion of a guy who admits he doesn't even watch college games.

ESPN has Isaac as the top sleeper in this draft - write them and explain how you figured out they are wrong based on your "stats and numbers".

Nate Duncan and Danny LeRoux (who actually watched all his games) have him as the top wing as well. But that's madness because you analyzed his assist numbers without understanding how the FSU offense actually works. Genius!! Glad you have given up.

There is no "internet stats" just basketball stats.
Did you watch Wilt ? Or you know, because it's clear by stats and rare footage that you have that he was one of most dominating big men to ever play who forced nba to change rules?
Did you watch Oscar Robertson ?
This " you didn't watch it live so your opinion doesn't matter " is laughable.

Second, i said that i like him as a prospect, I just don't think he will be able to play SF.
Third, his team was ranked 63# in total APG, so they were above average passing team.

Nate Duncan is also a guy who for nba 2014 draft ranked Dante Exum and Marcus Smart over Joel Embiid , he also ranked freaking P.J. Hairston as potential steal and Šarić as most overrated prospect. http://www.basketballinsiders.com/2014-nba-draft-nate-duncans-big-board/

"At the NBA level, Smart should be unstoppable off the dribble and an excellent defender and ball hawk at either guard position. His strength and competitiveness might even allow him to be a change of pace defender on threes in certain matchups. With the injury to Embiid, Smart ranks a clear number three on my board" . He called freaking MARCUS SMART most athletic PG since John Wall.

They were 63rd in total assists, but 247th of 351 in assist percentage. This is an aside, because assists don't actually really tell how capable you are as a passer. The quality of your vision or the passes you make are only small factors in how many assists you accrue. Role in the offense, number of touches, and time of possession are much bigger factors, which is why ball-dominant players rack up assists even if they are incredibly selfish.

FSU's ball movement was dreadful. The coach basically let certain players do as they pleased; especially Bacon. It was common for FSU possessions to yield two or fewer passes before the shot in half-court sets. This resulted in FSU ranking 51st in pace, which accounts for the relatively high assist total. It also explains why FSU had a low turnover rate and why Isaac would disappear offensively in some games. He just didn't get touches.

There are only so many potential outcomes when a player touches the ball in a possession: pass, shot, or turnover. Isaac had an average usage rate and a low turnover rate. This means either he wasn't getting touches or he was unselfish. Take your pick. I watched him play about a half-dozen times over the course of the season and it's obvious to me that he works hard to get open when he doesn't have possession and he wasn't selfish when he did get touches. Given that I was watching the games just to get a look at potential NBA prospects, I really wanted him to be more selfish than he was.

Like i said PennytoShaq,we can revisit this topic year from now to see how things are going. I wasted too many time in 2014 telling people that WSC could swich at PGs at college level beacause floor is shorter so they can't create enough space to run away from him and that won't translate into NBA, i was told he is second comming of taller Pippen on defense. Oh that worked so well for Kings , didin't it?
Same with Kris Dunn and being 4 years older than competition.

One of main reasons why i'm tired of this argument about isaac is because i never said he is bad, i simply said that he is too tall to play SF at nba level ,supported it with questioning his driving, ballhandling and passing skills, all parts of the game important for SF. And main reason i did that had nothing to do with Isaac himself, but with fact that Aaron Gordon should be Magic lock at PF for now, so if it turns out that Isaac is indeed PF , you basically used lottery pick to draft only position you actually have locked already.

[Xatticus]

There is no "internet stats" just basketball stats.
Did you watch Wilt ? Or you know, because it's clear by stats and rare footage that you have that he was one of most dominating big men to ever play who forced nba to change rules?
Did you watch Oscar Robertson ?
This " you didn't watch it live so your opinion doesn't matter " is laughable.

Second, i said that i like him as a prospect, I just don't think he will be able to play SF.
Third, his team was ranked 63# in total APG, so they were above average passing team.

Nate Duncan is also a guy who for nba 2014 draft ranked Dante Exum and Marcus Smart over Joel Embiid , he also ranked freaking P.J. Hairston as potential steal and Šarić as most overrated prospect. http://www.basketballinsiders.com/2014-nba-draft-nate-duncans-big-board/

"At the NBA level, Smart should be unstoppable off the dribble and an excellent defender and ball hawk at either guard position. His strength and competitiveness might even allow him to be a change of pace defender on threes in certain matchups. With the injury to Embiid, Smart ranks a clear number three on my board" . He called freaking MARCUS SMART most athletic PG since John Wall.

They were 63rd in total assists, but 247th of 351 in assist percentage. This is an aside, because assists don't actually really tell how capable you are as a passer. The quality of your vision or the passes you make are only small factors in how many assists you accrue. Role in the offense, number of touches, and time of possession are much bigger factors, which is why ball-dominant players rack up assists even if they are incredibly selfish.

FSU's ball movement was dreadful. The coach basically let certain players do as they pleased; especially Bacon. It was common for FSU possessions to yield two or fewer passes before the shot in half-court sets. This resulted in FSU ranking 51st in pace, which accounts for the relatively high assist total. It also explains why FSU had a low turnover rate and why Isaac would disappear offensively in some games. He just didn't get touches.

There are only so many potential outcomes when a player touches the ball in a possession: pass, shot, or turnover. Isaac had an average usage rate and a low turnover rate. This means either he wasn't getting touches or he was unselfish. Take your pick. I watched him play about a half-dozen times over the course of the season and it's obvious to me that he works hard to get open when he doesn't have possession and he wasn't selfish when he did get touches. Given that I was watching the games just to get a look at potential NBA prospects, I really wanted him to be more selfish than he was.

Like i said PennytoShaq,we can revisit this topic year from now to see how things are going. I wasted too many time in 2014 telling people that WSC could swich at PGs at college level beacause floor is shorter so they can't create enough space to run away from him and that won't translate into NBA, i was told he is second comming of taller Pippen on defense. Oh that worked so well for Kings , didin't it?
Same with Kris Dunn and being 4 years older than competition.

One of main reasons why i'm tired of this argument about isaac is because i never said he is bad, i simply said that he is too tall to play SF at nba level ,supported it with questioning his driving, ballhandling and passing skills, all parts of the game important for SF. And main reason i did that had nothing to do with Isaac himself, but with fact that Aaron Gordon should be Magic lock at PF for now, so if it turns out that Isaac is indeed PF , you basically used lottery pick to draft only position you actually have locked already.

Height and length are never negatives by themselves, they just tend to come with slower feet. You never actually want to match your bigs up against PGs, but you do want bigs that won't get murdered when a switch happens, or you at least want them to have the mobility to get back to their man after they hedge and to have the length to make passes difficult on the switches.

I see a lot of overlap with Gordon offensively, except that Isaac is clearly the better shooter at present. Neither player is a finished product though, and I'm just not that bothered with how well they will mesh offensively as there are plenty of minutes for all sorts of combinations. I do believe that Isaac will benefit from playing off of Payton in the same ways that Gordon has.

[pepe1991]

They were 63rd in total assists, but 247th of 351 in assist percentage. This is an aside, because assists don't actually really tell how capable you are as a passer. The quality of your vision or the passes you make are only small factors in how many assists you accrue. Role in the offense, number of touches, and time of possession are much bigger factors, which is why ball-dominant players rack up assists even if they are incredibly selfish.

FSU's ball movement was dreadful. The coach basically let certain players do as they pleased; especially Bacon. It was common for FSU possessions to yield two or fewer passes before the shot in half-court sets. This resulted in FSU ranking 51st in pace, which accounts for the relatively high assist total. It also explains why FSU had a low turnover rate and why Isaac would disappear offensively in some games. He just didn't get touches.

There are only so many potential outcomes when a player touches the ball in a possession: pass, shot, or turnover. Isaac had an average usage rate and a low turnover rate. This means either he wasn't getting touches or he was unselfish. Take your pick. I watched him play about a half-dozen times over the course of the season and it's obvious to me that he works hard to get open when he doesn't have possession and he wasn't selfish when he did get touches. Given that I was watching the games just to get a look at potential NBA prospects, I really wanted him to be more selfish than he was.

Like i said PennytoShaq,we can revisit this topic year from now to see how things are going. I wasted too many time in 2014 telling people that WSC could swich at PGs at college level beacause floor is shorter so they can't create enough space to run away from him and that won't translate into NBA, i was told he is second comming of taller Pippen on defense. Oh that worked so well for Kings , didin't it?
Same with Kris Dunn and being 4 years older than competition.

One of main reasons why i'm tired of this argument about isaac is because i never said he is bad, i simply said that he is too tall to play SF at nba level ,supported it with questioning his driving, ballhandling and passing skills, all parts of the game important for SF. And main reason i did that had nothing to do with Isaac himself, but with fact that Aaron Gordon should be Magic lock at PF for now, so if it turns out that Isaac is indeed PF , you basically used lottery pick to draft only position you actually have locked already.

Height and length are never negatives by themselves, they just tend to come with slower feet. You never actually want to match your bigs up against PGs, but you do want bigs that won't get murdered when a switch happens, or you at least want them to have the mobility to get back to their man after they hedge and to have the length to make passes difficult on the switches.

I see a lot of overlap with Gordon offensively, except that Isaac is clearly the better shooter at present. Neither player is a finished product though, and I'm just not that bothered with how well they will mesh offensively as there are plenty of minutes for all sorts of combinations. I do believe that Isaac will benefit from playing off of Payton in the same ways that Gordon has.

In general trend in nba is to move one position up.
2013:
Bennet drafted as PF/SF pretty much never played SF
Oladipo PG/SG only played PG limited min (and was terrible )
Cody Zeller PF/C at draft -87% C in nba
Muhammed SG/SF - nba SF/PF
Wiggins SG/SF- nba SF
Jabari SF/PF- nba PF
Smart PG/SG- SG nba
Šarić SF/PF- nba PF

KAT and Turner are latest examples of players drafted as "can play PF and C" to end up playing "taller" position all the time in nba.

I will be 100% fine with Magic drafting Isaac, Smith or Fox. I won't be too happy if they draft Monk. Matter of fact i would prefer gambling on Lauri over drafting Monk. He is only guy that i really don't like. I can't shake up feeling of new Lou Williams..

[djhunkyherbs]

More than anything else, the Magic need a go-to scorer, and have needed one for a long time. The team has tried at different points and in different ways to turn guys like Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, and Fournier into our go-to scorer, but none of it has really worked well. I believe that if the Magic can find an "option 1" type of player on offense, that the rest of the team will be able to play their roles more appropriately and the offense could at least be decent. The problem, of course, is that these guys don't exactly grow on trees, so here's to hoping that they're able to find one in the draft.

[ralphie9898]

Yeah its simply an all-star like talent or a young that really has a chance too as our young guys haven't developed enough to where I can see any of them will ever get on an all-star team. We need more two dimensional talent who can help not only on offense but also on D. We are stuck with role players and alot of guys who only play well on one side but not so much the other. The lottery was a let down so we shall see but that is our best hope as we don't have any space to get someone here. Though trade could be an option but we have to give up something of value to get that so not sure what to expect on that front aside from I don't think we have a shot at guys like Paul George or Jimmy Butler. But as far as position SF doesn't have much in the way of quantity or quality. But really any spot is upgrade-able but I am not sure how much of that we will be able to do with the 6th pick and limited cap space that won't even fit a max guy. Even if we nail the 6th pick and get someone who does well and shows that he has a bright future I expect to be back in the lottery next year vying for a top pick and hopefully we won't slide again or get a bad draft class.

[Howard Mass]

In the end, true trade-down ideas will be difficult to construct.

It's good to think up proposals though but nothing worth moving up few spots unless they really want a player. I'd prefer to keep Fournier out of it though.

My point is that it is indeed very difficult to create trades to move up in a draft.


..

This is true.

[PennytoShaq]

This " you didn't watch it live so your opinion doesn't matter " is laughable.


Third, his team was ranked 63# in total APG, so they were above average passing team.

It's not laughable. You illustrate why in your next sentence. Xatticus explained it already, but FSU was NOT an above average passing team. Quite easy to see this if you watched games. You basically proved the exact point I have been making, so thank you for that. Additionally, I never said you needed to watch the game live. I said you need to watch complete games - not highlights.

I think we all agree on Smith, Isaac or Fox. They have their questions, but at pick 6, I think that any of those guys would be a great pickup for us.

We need to see how workouts go. Things will start changing in the next few weeks.

[amkyka1956]

They should take BPA at #6 and try to use #33 and/or #35 to move up from #25.

We have agreed that the Magic should not take 4 rookies in to the next season. But here I note that teams rarely trade down.
One trade that is a merged idea is Brooklyn's #22 and #27 for Orlando's #25 + #33 + #35. Maybe Orlando needs to throw in the next-year's-best-of-Lakers-Magic second


Let's see some other ideas that might work:
#22 Brooklyn for #25 + #33 + #35. The Nets need depth and might go for three rookies to balance the bench (eventually). But is moving up 3 slots good enough?

#19 Atlanta and Kent Bazemore for #25 + #35 + Fournier. The Hawks get a SG/SF upgrade and depth whilst dumping Bazemore's bad contract. This actually looks OK for Orlando. At #19 a marginal starter might get found: e.g. Justin Jackson or Harry Giles.

#17 Milwaukee and Matthew Dellavedova and John Henson for #25 + #33 + #35 + next-year's-best-of-Lakers-Magic second + Fournier + Biyambo. This has similar advantages as the above. And really helps the Bucks gain key depth in their coming playoff runs.


In the end, true trade-down ideas will be difficult to construct.

Ummm, didn't we just rid ourselves of a person who gave up well more than we received in every trade he made?

[drsd]

Ummm, didn't we just rid ourselves of a person who gave up well more than we received in every trade he made?

These were illustrations of the needs to trade up. It is hard and Orlando would not get back fair value.

For example in the other direction:
So here have suggested the Magic could flip their two 2nds for a late-lottery; that won't happen.


..

[MasterGMer]

Magic needs depth every where.

1. PG
2. Wing
3. Bigs

we do not have a go to player the team can be built upon.

Plus Magic still need shooters and our depth on the front-line is awful.

[yoyojw17]

biggest need..... ..... hmmmmmmmm.....someone needs to sacrifice their first born?

but for real though.... we need to just get some consistent play and effort out of our guys! In my head..... we have a good team already.... that just need to figure out how to put it all together. To fill out our roster better.... we need to upgrade the SF position. A player that will legit be able to play the position and not "kinda sorta"

[Knightro]

The Magic have a considerable amount of needs. You can go up and down the roster and find holes everywhere.

But in my opinion, the team's biggest need is someone who can score efficiently and consistently *without* needing to be set up.

Ball movement, passing, cutting, transition and lots of shooting is the ideal way to play offense in the current NBA landscape, but at the end of the day you still need a player you can give the ball to and say "go get me a bucket" against whatever look the defense decides to throw at him.

[Darth Magic]

More than anything else, the Magic need a go-to scorer, and have needed one for a long time. The team has tried at different points and in different ways to turn guys like Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, and Fournier into our go-to scorer, but none of it has really worked well. I believe that if the Magic can find an "option 1" type of player on offense, that the rest of the team will be able to play their roles more appropriately and the offense could at least be decent. The problem, of course, is that these guys don't exactly grow on trees, so here's to hoping that they're able to find one in the draft.

Well said. I keep saying that this team has talent. The problem is that it has no alpha to lead and form an identity. Once we get that guy, we are going to be surprised how fast this team comes together.

[MasterGMer]

Speaking of this rebuild, we did not get lucky in the recent draft. We were always 1 spot behind from a star player.

We are desperately need a perimeter star player (ball handling, attack the hoop, create offense)

If we have a player like that, we will start to see some beautiful things from this team.

Fingers crossed and hope for the draft!!