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Mikistan wrote:BoyzNTheHood wrote:
SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!
VanWest82 wrote:LonZoBallin wrote:The blow up is in perfect order and that's why I don't understand how you guys can't see it!?!?!? You trade DD at the draft for a rebuild package and let lowry and ibaka walk. Bottom out! Don't half ass tank, tank to the bottom where you need to be. That's how you tank. With the Leafs success it puzzles me why more don't see how it's possible. They tanked and are taking the spotlight regardless of what we do. You trade DD for your Marner....go get your Auston and then take King James down when he's past his prime. Give me hope! If I had Greak freak, I think King James is in trouble in a few years. Even with Wall and how beal played in the playoffs with his youth, I have more hope than the Raptors. And the Celtics hope is through the roof. Maybe Denis in Atlanta becomes a Kawhi type PG. I don't have any hope with this core.
...I think a lot of Derozans value comes from we win. If we're battling for 5th or even 4th I think Derozan's value goes down even if he has the same year as last season. And he relies a lot of free throws, guys! Free throws only go down from wing players, when he loses those 10 free throws a game? What is he?
Don't miss the boat...
We can argue about whether the Raptors would be 2nd, 4th, or 6th moving forward. All are possibilities depending on injuries and player development/decline. You can't pretend anymore than I can that you know which end of the spectrum we'd be most likely to be in.
But what we can say with a fair degree of certainty is that we'd be a bottom feeder for a very long time if we full on tanked. I agree that's how we'd want to do it if forced to go that route, but again, we'd be doing it without a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level future star already on the roster. We're NOT getting that kind of player in a Derozan trade unless we luck out and draft one with whatever mid 1st we'd get in return for DD. The guy doesn't have a typical star's value due to his tricky fit and antiquated game. To think we're going to get some haul of top picks and/or young stars for him now is fantasy land. Maybe his value drops further like you say. I think it would increase as he becomes a more complete player.
Without a future star on the roster to build around, you're basically starting from ground zero. The only hope is what you get from the draft by way of stinking it up. History has shown it takes 5-10 years to recover from that scenario. I'd rather be first round playoff fodder in that case.
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:CoachJReturns wrote:Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
We'll see about the defence. I think it can improve with better conditioning. And, rebounding is a big part of defence, bruh, which we all know he can do. Dude had a higher DRB% than Sullinger compared to his 2 years at Ohio St., and was on par with Draymond Green.
Lol. Yeah I'm sure he's going to go from being one of the slowest bigs in a long time, to a quick perimeter defender. Just like JV will become quick enough to defend the pick and roll right?
I'm done.
Dude, he's got other things going for him on the defensive end. Man, there are players who are great defenders that aren't the quickest of foot. It isn't all about that, bro. He can rebound, he's got some length to him, with a 7'3'' wingspan. He's got a 9'0 standing reach. Now, I don't know if he'll ever be a great defender, but I'm willing to give him a chance. Not only that, he seems coachable, too.
VanWest82 wrote:Mikistan wrote:BoyzNTheHood wrote:
SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.
I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.
VanWest82 wrote:Mikistan wrote:BoyzNTheHood wrote:
SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.
I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.
CoachJReturns wrote:Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:CoachJReturns wrote:Lol. Yeah I'm sure he's going to go from being one of the slowest bigs in a long time, to a quick perimeter defender. Just like JV will become quick enough to defend the pick and roll right?
I'm done.
Dude, he's got other things going for him on the defensive end. Man, there are players who are great defenders that aren't the quickest of foot. It isn't all about that, bro. He can rebound, he's got some length to him, with a 7'3'' wingspan. He's got a 9'0 standing reach. Now, I don't know if he'll ever be a great defender, but I'm willing to give him a chance. Not only that, he seems coachable, too.
Does he block/change shots with that wingspan? Doesn't look like it. Yes he can rebound. I have been reasonable enough to praise the things he's good at all along, even though I don't want him. I don't see why you can't just accept his weaknesses. Name me some guys with his profile who are still effective defenders in the league. You may notice a huge shortage.
I'm not some small ball fanatic. I genuinely miss growing up in an era when there were legends like Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and others dominating from the inside on both sides of the floor. I don't have some grudge against bigs who are one way players either. The problem is if you have a one way player you always have to have guys who compensate for their weaknesses. We don't have that in my opinion.
Patman wrote:
Z-Bo is a lofty comparison for Caleb, but that's the type of player we can use right now. We need someone who grabs boards, sets solid screens, hits open jumpers, posts up smaller guys on a switch, can pass from the high post (i.e. trap-breaker).
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:CoachJReturns wrote:Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
Dude, he's got other things going for him on the defensive end. Man, there are players who are great defenders that aren't the quickest of foot. It isn't all about that, bro. He can rebound, he's got some length to him, with a 7'3'' wingspan. He's got a 9'0 standing reach. Now, I don't know if he'll ever be a great defender, but I'm willing to give him a chance. Not only that, he seems coachable, too.
Does he block/change shots with that wingspan? Doesn't look like it. Yes he can rebound. I have been reasonable enough to praise the things he's good at all along, even though I don't want him. I don't see why you can't just accept his weaknesses. Name me some guys with his profile who are still effective defenders in the league. You may notice a huge shortage.
I'm not some small ball fanatic. I genuinely miss growing up in an era when there were legends like Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and others dominating from the inside on both sides of the floor. I don't have some grudge against bigs who are one way players either. The problem is if you have a one way player you always have to have guys who compensate for their weaknesses. We don't have that in my opinion.
I've accepted that defence will be a weakness. I didn't say he's going to be a stalworth defensively. But, there's enough that I've seen of him, where I can say he can improve. And maybe he doesn't, and you are looking at him being Monroe'd, Randolph'd, or Kanter'd off the bench. But, I really value his offensive game and believe a player of his ilk is almost undervalued now to where a team like the Raps, devoid of making any real changes due to cap concerns (assuming everyone is brought) ought to roll the dice on a player who seems to have a very good feel for the game. He's already shown tremendous work ethic in overcoming what he has. If I'm Masai, that's the kind of player I want to take a chance on. A lot of what is being said reminds me of the things they said about Draymond Green, despite his feel for the game. Not saying he's the next Draymond Green, but if there's even a small chance he is, I'd take that chance. That's exactly the player we need to complete the current ensemble with the core being what it is.
But, there are other prospects who are there (I like Bolden, I don't mind trading up for any player who falls), and I don't want to necessarily dismiss them either. I just have a belief that Swanigan will outperform his draft position.
CoachJReturns wrote:Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:CoachJReturns wrote:Does he block/change shots with that wingspan? Doesn't look like it. Yes he can rebound. I have been reasonable enough to praise the things he's good at all along, even though I don't want him. I don't see why you can't just accept his weaknesses. Name me some guys with his profile who are still effective defenders in the league. You may notice a huge shortage.
I'm not some small ball fanatic. I genuinely miss growing up in an era when there were legends like Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and others dominating from the inside on both sides of the floor. I don't have some grudge against bigs who are one way players either. The problem is if you have a one way player you always have to have guys who compensate for their weaknesses. We don't have that in my opinion.
I've accepted that defence will be a weakness. I didn't say he's going to be a stalworth defensively. But, there's enough that I've seen of him, where I can say he can improve. And maybe he doesn't, and you are looking at him being Monroe'd, Randolph'd, or Kanter'd off the bench. But, I really value his offensive game and believe a player of his ilk is almost undervalued now to where a team like the Raps, devoid of making any real changes due to cap concerns (assuming everyone is brought) ought to roll the dice on a player who seems to have a very good feel for the game. He's already shown tremendous work ethic in overcoming what he has. If I'm Masai, that's the kind of player I want to take a chance on. A lot of what is being said reminds me of the things they said about Draymond Green, despite his feel for the game. Not saying he's the next Draymond Green, but if there's even a small chance he is, I'd take that chance. That's exactly the player we need to complete the current ensemble with the core being what it is.
But, there are other prospects who are there (I like Bolden, I don't mind trading up for any player who falls), and I don't want to necessarily dismiss them either. I just have a belief that Swanigan will outperform his draft position.
We should just agree to disagree. I don't want another slow big on this team when we never used the first one we had who was a top 5 pick. Just seems a waste to me despite Swanigan's offensive skillset.
slothrop8 wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Mikistan wrote:SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.
I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.
VanWest82 wrote:slothrop8 wrote:VanWest82 wrote:
LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.
I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.
Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year
BoyzNTheHood wrote:Well the copy cat league that the NBA is forgets that good big men is a tried and true method to win titles. Not everyone shoots the ball like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson (understatement of the year?). Oh, and I forgot, as of May 30th 2017 they still only have one title!!
One thing that has never changed is the fact that when you have the ball more than your opponent gives you a better chance to score more points because you have more opportunities to do so, and the team with more points wins! So how do you get the ball more? REBOUND! Who rebounds? BIG MEN!!
HeadtopChunes wrote:VanWest82 wrote:slothrop8 wrote:
I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.
Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year
Who would we even take at 12? Anunoby? Mitchell maybe
HeadtopChunes wrote:VanWest82 wrote:slothrop8 wrote:
I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.
Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year
Who would we even take at 12? Anunoby? Mitchell maybe
slothrop8 wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Mikistan wrote:SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.
I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.
*INGRAM*ALLSTARSEASON* Wemby is HIM
CoachJReturns wrote:HeadtopChunes wrote:VanWest82 wrote:
Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year
Who would we even take at 12? Anunoby? Mitchell maybe
You're most likely looking at Anunoby. Though I think after Isaac, it starts to get a little less certain, so it's possible it could be any of the following:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Markannen
Zach Collins
Ntilikina
Anonoby
Mitchell
Justin Jackson
*INGRAM*ALLSTARSEASON* Wemby is HIM PhilBlackson wrote:slothrop8 wrote:VanWest82 wrote:
LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.
I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.
I would echo that and also further it by saying SVG is also probably looking for someone who can start and play alongside all his young guys, most notably at the SG position where they may end up losing KCP. It's at this point it's too bad we didn't have Ross to trade anymore...