Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

[PhilBlackson]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.

I would echo that and also further it by saying SVG is also probably looking for someone who can start and play alongside all his young guys, most notably at the SG position where they may end up losing KCP. It's at this point it's too bad we didn't have Ross to trade anymore...

I think they need an SF. Jae Crowder for 12 is seen as a popular deal. Unless Masai uses his black magic to convince SVG that Caroll is still good.

I don't see that happening with Bradley due for a big pay day after next season. I could see them slide Crowder over to SG to make way for Hayward at the 3 as long rumoured but even Bradley could be a nice trade chip himself to DET. Not saying I rule it out, just my take. Alternatively they could also send Smart. Crazy the amount of options BOS has.

[OAKLEY_2]

LOL. No it means trading a draft pick for a player, not having to include a draft pick in order to move a player.

I could see them trading No. 12 for Cory Joseph given the issues they've had with Reggie Jackson.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.

Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year

Except how the hel does Joseph move their dial? Try Tobias, Leuer and 12 for Demar, Bebe and the Weltman pick.

I'd pick OG and Ferguson. I'd sign Ibaka and cut KL loose. Absorb a Boston point guard. Move JV.

CULTURE CHANGE.

Centre: Ibaka/Poetl
PF: Siakim/Leuer/Bruno
SF: Tobias/OG
SG: Norm/Delon/Ferguson
PG: Rozier/Joseph/Freddy

[Mark_83]

Read on Twitter

Our chance to trade up for OG?

[Mikistan]

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Our chance to trade up for OG?

no one worried about that knee?

[slothrop8]

Read on Twitter

Our chance to trade up for OG?

no one worried about that knee?

Our recent track record of forwards with knee issues is great. No concern from me at all. Get Giles too while we're at it I say.

[PhilBlackson]

Our chance to trade up for OG?

no one worried about that knee?

Our recent track record of forwards with knee issues is great. No concern from me at all. Get Giles too while we're at it I say.

Harry Giles has destroyed both knees and did so before even hitting college.

I'm not as bothered by OG's injury because it would be like a kid having one in his rookie year considering his age. I didn't hear that it was a major/severe injury so I have some faith that he would return to form.

[slothrop8]

no one worried about that knee?

Our recent track record of forwards with knee issues is great. No concern from me at all. Get Giles too while we're at it I say.

Harry Giles has destroyed both knees and did so before even hitting college.

I'm not as bothered by OG's injury because it would be like a kid having one in his rookie year considering his age. I didn't hear that it was a major/severe injury so I have some faith that he would return to form.

Yeah, I know all about Giles. I'm a UNC fan - I've been following his recruitment since he was in 10th grade. I was making a joke about Carroll and how that didn't go well for us. Shoulda used green font.

[CoachJReturns]

no one worried about that knee?

Our recent track record of forwards with knee issues is great. No concern from me at all. Get Giles too while we're at it I say.

Harry Giles has destroyed both knees and did so before even hitting college.

I'm not as bothered by OG's injury because it would be like a kid having one in his rookie year considering his age. I didn't hear that it was a major/severe injury so I have some faith that he would return to form.

Wasn't it an acl tear? That's a major injury.

[Syd-TK3]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.

Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year

Who would we even take at 12? Anunoby? Mitchell maybe

If it was possible I'd be all in for this trade.
Joseph is a good contract to move and I think wright is ready

Also I know we'd probably take anunoby at that spot cause masai would love him but I think Mitchell would be great as well.
He's one of my favourite guys in this draft.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using RealGM mobile app

[OAKLEY_2]

Sully in a way is a bit of an unfair comparison because you immediately start thinking of weight problems.

When in reality Caleb has gotten slimmer and slimmer every season. His weight issues were when he was in HS he was morbidly obese but since then he found the right guidance he's been like a man possessed and as I said shed more and more weight each year which can't be said for Sullinger.

Further to that calling him a poor man's Sully makes no sense when he is doing BETTER statiscally than Jared did. Keep in mind in Jared's second year he was a year older than Caleb as Swanigan entered college EARLY. Caleb is actually the age of most FRESHMAN. If anything Caleb is the richman's version of Sully....

2nd year stats:

Sullinger: 17.5ppg, 9.2rpg, 53% 2pt% and 40% pt3%
Swanigan: 18.5ppf, 12.5rpg 54% 2pt% and 44.7% 3pt% literally better in every stat

Caleb is everything Sullinger should have become with some dedication to his weight. Swanigan actually is said to have the 2nd lowest body fat percentage on his team...watch n learn

Watch on YouTube

I'm not saying I want Caleb because I still don't like his lateral speed on defence but I think he is getting an unfair label as being the "next Sully" when in reality he will likely be better since he was better statiscally and actually is showing the dedication to his diet. Not to mention Swanigan has a better wingspan.

Also Swanigan weighed in at 246pds at the same height as Sully who came in at 268pds. That is a HUGE difference in weight...it's an unfair label really.

Valid points. I guess my concern is that people shouldn't compare Caleb with heavy Sully. Compare Caleb with slimmer college Sully. That version of Sully was an effective inside, outside scorer with nimble feet and some range. That version of Sully was a lottery pick and in the running for player of the year.

Caleb is a slow defender with limited range and skill. Sully also had a really talented team in Sully, he wasn't the man. Slim Sully was effective in the NBA with good vision, rebounding numbers and range with solid defense. I think people are underating Sully and overating Caleb. There is a reason why their draft numbers are so different.

Another odd statement because perhaps you don't recall but Sullinger went 21st overall?!

If we took Caleb he would be 23rd lol...not much of a difference there.

I also just listed the weights of each player at the combine which would be "college Sully" and he was 24 pounds heavier than Caleb is now despite the fact that Sullinger's weight continues to increase where as Caleb's continues to decrease. The only thing I can really give you is that Sully played on a slightly better team (OS record 31-8) vs Caleb (Purdue 27-8) but again not really world's apart there.

The other ironic thing is you mention being in the running for player of the year which I don't think Sully was in his second year meanwhile Caleb was this year and actually won the Pac10 player of the year. I just think it's a bit strawman this whole arguement against Caleb because he's also doing this at a younger age and again is the player that is improving and not regressing like Sully did. All the stats, age, weight etc seem to be in clear favor of Swanigan here.

Got to admit going from that overweight disadvantaged kid to Pac 10 POY and 4% body fat is phenomenal. The stuff of workout legends. I'd pick him just to mentor a buy-low Sully reclamation project. Sully was great in college.

[PhilBlackson]

Valid points. I guess my concern is that people shouldn't compare Caleb with heavy Sully. Compare Caleb with slimmer college Sully. That version of Sully was an effective inside, outside scorer with nimble feet and some range. That version of Sully was a lottery pick and in the running for player of the year.

Caleb is a slow defender with limited range and skill. Sully also had a really talented team in Sully, he wasn't the man. Slim Sully was effective in the NBA with good vision, rebounding numbers and range with solid defense. I think people are underating Sully and overating Caleb. There is a reason why their draft numbers are so different.

Another odd statement because perhaps you don't recall but Sullinger went 21st overall?!

If we took Caleb he would be 23rd lol...not much of a difference there.

I also just listed the weights of each player at the combine which would be "college Sully" and he was 24 pounds heavier than Caleb is now despite the fact that Sullinger's weight continues to increase where as Caleb's continues to decrease. The only thing I can really give you is that Sully played on a slightly better team (OS record 31-8) vs Caleb (Purdue 27-8) but again not really world's apart there.

The other ironic thing is you mention being in the running for player of the year which I don't think Sully was in his second year meanwhile Caleb was this year and actually won the Pac10 player of the year. I just think it's a bit strawman this whole arguement against Caleb because he's also doing this at a younger age and again is the player that is improving and not regressing like Sully did. All the stats, age, weight etc seem to be in clear favor of Swanigan here.

Got to admit going from that overweight disadvantaged kid to Pac 10 POY and 4% body fat is phenomenal. The stuff of workout legends. I'd pick him just to mentor a buy-low Sully reclamation project. Sully was great in college.

The kid's story is truly like something made in a Hollywood script, from a kid the size of a sumo wrestler in HS, too 4% body fat Pac 10 POY and in the running for college POY, is remarkable. That also speaks to the unreal dedication he's shown to his diet/weight and also the game....watching that vid he seems like a kid that is truly obsessed with the game, almost Beautiful Mind like obsession lol

I don't think he'll ever be a good defensive player but I think he has more than enough skills to be a very good offensive one and if a team can mask him between a couple of good defenders as the Cavs do with Love, I think he will be a steal. Even if we don't draft him he's a player I'll be rooting for just for being such an amazing story of how a person can turn their life around.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

[Psubs]

The kid's story is truly like something made in a Hollywood script, from a kid the size of a sumo wrestler in HS, too 4% body fat Pac 10 POY and in the running for college POY, is remarkable. That also speaks to the unreal dedication he's shown to his diet/weight and also the game....watching that vid he seems like a kid that is truly obsessed with the game, almost Beautiful Mind like obsession lol

I don't think he'll ever be a good defensive player but I think he has more than enough skills to be a very good offensive one and if a team can mask him between a couple of good defenders as the Cavs do with Love, I think he will be a steal. Even if we don't draft him he's a player I'll be rooting for just for being such an amazing story of how a person can turn their life around.

I think Jahlil Okafor is the best outlook for Swanigan, though I guess he does have a better outside shot.

[Psubs]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

Peter Jok

[vanhill]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

I would prefer Jonah Bolden. He is taller with good athleticism. Semi doesn't seems to be a good facilitator.

[VanWest82]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the notion that we can get the #12 pick for Cory Joseph.

Might have to be Joseph + 23 for 12, and we only do it if we're in love with someone at 12 anyway. Cory's still a highly useful player for us so it's not like we're giving up nothing. He's also one of the only players on the team who could possibly fetch a 1st. Hate to lose him for nothing the following year

Except how the hel does Joseph move their dial? Try Tobias, Leuer and 12 for Demar, Bebe and the Weltman pick.

I'd pick OG and Ferguson. I'd sign Ibaka and cut KL loose. Absorb a Boston point guard. Move JV.

CULTURE CHANGE.

Centre: Ibaka/Poetl
PF: Siakim/Leuer/Bruno
SF: Tobias/OG
SG: Norm/Delon/Ferguson
PG: Rozier/Joseph/Freddy

Yikes!!!

For starters, that team doesn't make sense. Also, good luck re-signing Ibaka after dumping your two stars - they're the main reason he'd consider signing with us in the first place.

I'm not sure Joseph moves their team ceiling much, but Pistons are under the gun to make the playoffs and SVG is notoriously a little impatient. I think Joseph is perhaps viewed in a better light around the league than this forum. And again, Detroit just finished a season where they got very little out of their PG rotation. At worst, hes a considerable upgrade over Ish Smith, and if they viewed Joseph as a long-term answer they'd have his bird rights.

[Dalek]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

I don't think he is a reach at all, but most mocks have him in the 30s due to his age. I think the hard part is looking at only one productive season at SMU after doing nothing much at Duke. He hit a ton of 3s at a good rate (42.5%), but many people question his defense. I think he is a hard worker and a competitor who will be a great role player in the NBA because he is strong enough to guard some fours and cover out on the perimeter.

That said, Toronto's Dan Holzman always talks about how they have their own way of evauluating prospects and frankly, Toronto goes a bit off the board most times. Siakam was at New Mexico State at the WAC conference (lower Division 1); Jakob Poeltl and Delon Wright (Pac-12) also a bit off the radar.

This year they brought in Ojeleye from the AAC Conference. Guys that are lesser known great shooters:

Damyean Dotson (Houston U) just came to Toronto (44% on 7 attempts from 3). He is a sleeper to me. Great athlete who had a sexual assault case that nearly ruined his career. Ended up back at his hometown to clean up his image. His coach Kelvin Sampson raves about his character/make-up. As a reference, Justin Jackson from UNC averaged 37% on 7 attempts.

VJ Beachem (Notre Dame) had a down year but has hit over 40% over the two previous years

Peter Jok (Iowa) is older but a (38% on 7 attempts) playing in the tough Big 10 conference

Tyler Dorsey (Oregon) is short, not a prolific 3 pt shooter, but is going to be a great scorer. I love his mentality and clutch shooting. He plays for the Greek National team as well, and is just so skilled in playing on up tempo teams.

[HeadtopChunes]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

Here's a write-up I did on Semi

viewtopic.php?p=55830995#p55830995

[TorontoRapsFan]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

Here's a write-up I did on Semi

viewtopic.php?p=55830995#p55830995

That write up makes him sound like exactly the kind of player the Raps might bet on. I mean if they are serious about finding a serviceable SF out of the draft, for near future, and as insurance for the bench in the immediate year. I read his speed was really good in the combines, has that changed your mind as how good of a pick he might be at 23?

[TorontoRapsFan]

Hello all you draft gurus. Im late to the party. Can you all fill me in on what you all think about Semi Ojeleye? Good enough to go 23 and not be a reach? Good enough to become a good starter? Also, any dead eye shooters that are going late first and into second?

I would prefer Jonah Bolden. He is taller with good athleticism. Semi doesn't seems to be a good facilitator.

Dude shoots some rainbow shots. His release seems a little slow and he starts from too close to his head? Think with his long arms if he learns to start his shot from a higher point he can shoot over defenders.