Hayward Undecided

[hickfromfrenchlick]

Why wouldl we sign and trade a lot for Gallo if he's a FA? Also why wouldn't we trade for Wilson Chandler who's a better player and was better at both ends of the court last season? There were a ton of rumors Chandler wanted to leave Denver.

I wouldn't, but sometimes I put an Ainge wildcard in my scenarios. He does obvious stuff like IT for a 1st, but no one saw Crowder etc. for Rondo coming.

Imagining something like Zeller's deal, Olynyk S&T, Yabu and/or Rozier for Gallo at like 20 million per, and we keep holds on Amir and Jerebko, roll them over for another year, extend Smart.

Both Amir and Jerebko are useless. To me Gallo is a worst case scenario as he's injury prone and last year was averaging 18 points- only 4 more than Jae(2 or 1 and a half buckets). Having him at 20 mils is god awful. I'd rather have Millsap, easily at 25-26.

Just going to follow up: Gallinari games played in the past 6 seasons:

11-12 : 43 GP
12-13: 71 GP
13- 14: 0
14-15: 59
15-16: 53
16-17: 63

He's varely played 70 games once in that span, I doubt this trend changes going into his 30's.

I don't get this board's fascination with Gallo. He's a poor man's, injury-prone Rashard Lewis.

[CeltsfaninDC]

Maxing Porter with this teams resigns us to never being better than what we are now. Porter is a nice player, but he is not a dynamic player at either end. You're paying him the max mainly because he had a hot first half of the year from 3, when he shot 47% from deep. Post-ASB he shot 34% from 3, more in line with his career average, and in the playoffs he shot under 30%.

If Porter is really more of a ~35% shooter from deep and not 40%+, he's something along the lines of a healthy DeMarre Carroll. That's a nice player, but more of a $15M/yr guy and not a max guy. I suppose you pay more to see if he develops further, but I just don't see the explosion of defensive focus to be elite at either end as a defensive stopper or as a primary playmaker.

I agree with most of your Porter assessment except that I think he's a better shooter than the stats are giving him credit for. When he is on and getting open shots, he knocks them down. He is one of the guys on the Wiz that I couldn't;t stand over the past few years, but has really improved this year and become a big part of that team. He's certainly not a max player for the Cs and more like an upgrade to GG at this point. What he would be is the guy who could knock down the 3 at a far higher rate than Crowder when IT kicks out after a drive. He has potential for growth, but he's not going to suddenly turn into an elite 3 just because you pay him like one

[Gomes3PC]

I wouldn't, but sometimes I put an Ainge wildcard in my scenarios. He does obvious stuff like IT for a 1st, but no one saw Crowder etc. for Rondo coming.

Imagining something like Zeller's deal, Olynyk S&T, Yabu and/or Rozier for Gallo at like 20 million per, and we keep holds on Amir and Jerebko, roll them over for another year, extend Smart.

Both Amir and Jerebko are useless. To me Gallo is a worst case scenario as he's injury prone and last year was averaging 18 points- only 4 more than Jae(2 or 1 and a half buckets). Having him at 20 mils is god awful. I'd rather have Millsap, easily at 25-26.

Just going to follow up: Gallinari games played in the past 6 seasons:

11-12 : 43 GP
12-13: 71 GP
13- 14: 0
14-15: 59
15-16: 53
16-17: 63

He's varely played 70 games once in that span, I doubt this trend changes going into his 30's.

I don't get this board's fascination with Gallo. He's a poor man's, injury-prone Rashard Lewis.

No, he's not. They're actually not very similar players at all, except both were SF/PF combos I suppose.

Gallo draws WAY more fouls than Lewis.
Gallo is a vastly superior passer to Lewis.
Gallo is a more efficient scorer than Lewis.
Gallo has a post up game Lewis never had.
Lewis was a better defender when he tried than Gallo.
Lewis was a better spot-up shooter than Gallo.

I don't see the comp at all. I see Gallo as a lesser version of Detlef Schrempf, or maybe a late-careef Schrempf.

Plus, even if you think they are similar, Lewis was a heck of a player in his prime. He was a 8-10 win guy consistently in his mid-late 20s. If that's what you get from Gallo, that's good enough to be your 3rd/4th best player on a title team.

[Captain_Caveman]

Could see us sign and trade a lot for Gallo, actually.

Why wouldl we sign and trade a lot for Gallo if he's a FA? Also why wouldn't we trade for Wilson Chandler who's a better player and was better at both ends of the court last season? There were a ton of rumors Chandler wanted to leave Denver.

A sign-and-trade would allow us to keep Kelly and/or sign Jonas/Zeller/whoever to 1-year deals, helping our depth and possibly facilitating trade deadline or offseason deals next summer.

[Froob]

Could see us sign and trade a lot for Gallo, actually.

Why wouldl we sign and trade a lot for Gallo if he's a FA? Also why wouldn't we trade for Wilson Chandler who's a better player and was better at both ends of the court last season? There were a ton of rumors Chandler wanted to leave Denver.

A sign-and-trade would allow us to keep Kelly and/or sign Jonas/Zeller/whoever to 1-year deals, helping our depth and possibly facilitating trade deadline or offseason deals next summer.

Think Kelly is really in play? Seems like we'd be setting the ceiling too low with guys like him getting megabucks.

[165bows]

Why wouldl we sign and trade a lot for Gallo if he's a FA? Also why wouldn't we trade for Wilson Chandler who's a better player and was better at both ends of the court last season? There were a ton of rumors Chandler wanted to leave Denver.

A sign-and-trade would allow us to keep Kelly and/or sign Jonas/Zeller/whoever to 1-year deals, helping our depth and possibly facilitating trade deadline or offseason deals next summer.

Think Kelly is really in play? Seems like we'd be setting the ceiling too low with guys like him getting megabucks.

Keeping him on a deal that becomes a trade asset is better than just losing him for nothing.

Compared to what they've been spending money on (Wallace, Lee, Zeller etc) Kelly should be good value unless he gets a wild overpay.

[sam_I_am]

We need to let Kelly walk the way the Spurs do with players like Gary Neal, Tiago Splitter etc. Signing him to think we can trade him is too dangerous unless we strike out in FA.

[Captain_Caveman]

Why wouldl we sign and trade a lot for Gallo if he's a FA? Also why wouldn't we trade for Wilson Chandler who's a better player and was better at both ends of the court last season? There were a ton of rumors Chandler wanted to leave Denver.

A sign-and-trade would allow us to keep Kelly and/or sign Jonas/Zeller/whoever to 1-year deals, helping our depth and possibly facilitating trade deadline or offseason deals next summer.

Think Kelly is really in play? Seems like we'd be setting the ceiling too low with guys like him getting megabucks.

If we clear the decks to sign Hayward with cap room, we are extremely thin in the front court.

There are other options, but my point is that there are benefits of utilizing sign-and-trades for us. We'd also get to keep our full MLE.

[Banks2Pierce]

We need to let Kelly walk the way the Spurs do with players like Gary Neal, Tiago Splitter etc. Signing him to think we can trade him is too dangerous unless we strike out in FA.

Olynyk is not comparable to Gary Neal and the Spurs were easily able to get off of Splitter's deal(that they signed him to) even though he was injured. Trying to think of who they actually lost and coming up with Cory Joseph, but they had Parker and Mills. The better comparison might be that they are able to keep their good role guys on really good deals due to culture, relationships with agents, and winning.

We can probably get a good feel for what he'll cost early in the process by talking to his agent.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

Both Amir and Jerebko are useless. To me Gallo is a worst case scenario as he's injury prone and last year was averaging 18 points- only 4 more than Jae(2 or 1 and a half buckets). Having him at 20 mils is god awful. I'd rather have Millsap, easily at 25-26.

Just going to follow up: Gallinari games played in the past 6 seasons:

11-12 : 43 GP
12-13: 71 GP
13- 14: 0
14-15: 59
15-16: 53
16-17: 63

He's varely played 70 games once in that span, I doubt this trend changes going into his 30's.

I don't get this board's fascination with Gallo. He's a poor man's, injury-prone Rashard Lewis.

No, he's not. They're actually not very similar players at all, except both were SF/PF combos I suppose.

Gallo draws WAY more fouls than Lewis.
Gallo is a vastly superior passer to Lewis.
Gallo is a more efficient scorer than Lewis.
Gallo has a post up game Lewis never had.
Lewis was a better defender when he tried than Gallo.
Lewis was a better spot-up shooter than Gallo.

I don't see the comp at all. I see Gallo as a lesser version of Detlef Schrempf, or maybe a late-careef Schrempf.

Plus, even if you think they are similar, Lewis was a heck of a player in his prime. He was a 8-10 win guy consistently in his mid-late 20s. If that's what you get from Gallo, that's good enough to be your 3rd/4th best player on a title team.

You don't see the comp "at all"? Really? Two 6'10" 220ish 3-point shooters with very similar statistics?

You're nitpicking. Gallo picks up 2 more FTs per game. He averages a whopping 0.3 more assists per game. And those include Lewis's final years. He has a better TS% but Lewis was also a very efficient scorer.

Per 36:
Gallo 17.7 ppg 5.4 rpg 2.3 apg 0.9 spg 0.5 bpg .420/.370/.863 5.7 3pa 6'10" 225
Lewis 16.7 ppg 5.8 rpg 1.9 apg 1.2 spg 0.6 bpg .452/.386/.805 5.0 3pa 6'10" 215

Look, no two guys are the same, but the notion that you don't see a similarity between these two guys is strange to me.

Detlef Schrempf averaged almost 10 rpg for two years, 4+ apg for a bunch of seasons, and 1.1 3pa for his career. Besides the color of their skin, I don't see much similarity there.

I agree Lewis was a good player in his prime. I think he was better than Gallo and during the prime decade of his career he played in 70+ games 9 times and 60 games in the other season.

I'm not saying Gallo stinks. I'm saying I don't get the fascination for $20M.

[Gomes3PC]

I just don't see the style. Gallo loves playing in the post and the Nuggets run tons of action through him. He's actually a pretty physical player now, at least on offense. Lewis was more of a spot up guy who slashed when he had a chance, and I never saw the vision from him that I see out of Gallo.

Considering in his prime years Lewis was making ~$18M/yr before the cap exploded, Gallo making $20M now seems pretty reasonable if you think they're similar talents. And I don't think Shard was massively overpaid at the time; he was a part of an NBA Finals team in ORL most of that contract.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

I just don't see the style. Gallo loves playing in the post and the Nuggets run tons of action through him. He's actually a pretty physical player now, at least on offense. Lewis was more of a spot up guy who slashed when he had a chance, and I never saw the vision from him that I see out of Gallo.

Considering in his prime years Lewis was making ~$18M/yr before the cap exploded, Gallo making $20M now seems pretty reasonable if you think they're similar talents. And I don't think Shard was massively overpaid at the time; he was a part of an NBA Finals team in ORL most of that contract.

I agree that Gallo posts up more. (I love Jokic so I watched a lot of Nuggets game. You probably did too.)

Lewis was definitely overpaid. Considering how crazy NBA salaries are, Gallo's salary is reasonable. I just think we can do a lot better with $20M, including us it to sign current players if that's where Danny wants to go.

[Gomes3PC]

I just don't see the style. Gallo loves playing in the post and the Nuggets run tons of action through him. He's actually a pretty physical player now, at least on offense. Lewis was more of a spot up guy who slashed when he had a chance, and I never saw the vision from him that I see out of Gallo.

Considering in his prime years Lewis was making ~$18M/yr before the cap exploded, Gallo making $20M now seems pretty reasonable if you think they're similar talents. And I don't think Shard was massively overpaid at the time; he was a part of an NBA Finals team in ORL most of that contract.

I agree that Gallo posts up more. (I love Jokic so I watched a lot of Nuggets game. You probably did too.)

Lewis was definitely overpaid. Considering how crazy NBA salaries are, Gallo's salary is reasonable. I just think we can do a lot better with $20M, including us it to sign current players if that's where Danny wants to go.

But that's a poor use of the cap. You can sign Gallo and then go re-sign existing players while over the cap. Cap space should almost ALWAYS be used to acquire talent outside the current org with the cap rules currently in place. You re-up your own guys once you've blown through the cap.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

I just don't see the style. Gallo loves playing in the post and the Nuggets run tons of action through him. He's actually a pretty physical player now, at least on offense. Lewis was more of a spot up guy who slashed when he had a chance, and I never saw the vision from him that I see out of Gallo.

Considering in his prime years Lewis was making ~$18M/yr before the cap exploded, Gallo making $20M now seems pretty reasonable if you think they're similar talents. And I don't think Shard was massively overpaid at the time; he was a part of an NBA Finals team in ORL most of that contract.

I agree that Gallo posts up more. (I love Jokic so I watched a lot of Nuggets game. You probably did too.)

Lewis was definitely overpaid. Considering how crazy NBA salaries are, Gallo's salary is reasonable. I just think we can do a lot better with $20M, including us it to sign current players if that's where Danny wants to go.

But that's a poor use of the cap. You can sign Gallo and then go re-sign existing players while over the cap. Cap space should almost ALWAYS be used to acquire talent outside the current org with the cap rules currently in place. You re-up your own guys once you've blown through the cap.

Fair enough. TBH, it's his injuries more than anything. I would be very scared to committing $20M to a guy who can't seem to stay on the court -- and doesn't help us in the areas that we really need help.

[Smog]

I agree that Gallo posts up more. (I love Jokic so I watched a lot of Nuggets game. You probably did too.)

Lewis was definitely overpaid. Considering how crazy NBA salaries are, Gallo's salary is reasonable. I just think we can do a lot better with $20M, including us it to sign current players if that's where Danny wants to go.

But that's a poor use of the cap. You can sign Gallo and then go re-sign existing players while over the cap. Cap space should almost ALWAYS be used to acquire talent outside the current org with the cap rules currently in place. You re-up your own guys once you've blown through the cap.

Fair enough. TBH, it's his injuries more than anything. I would be very scared to committing $20M to a guy who can't seem to stay on the court -- and doesn't help us in the areas that we really need help.

I'm scared of Gallo's injuries, and I wouldn't say he's a better or worse player than Lewis, but they're very different. Lewis was a spot up shooter and play finisher. Gallinari is a guy who handles the ball and creates pretty well (although he also plays off the ball). The only reason to consider Gallinari is because he fits what the team is missing; he's a frontcourt scorer who can initiate his own offense.

[Curmudgeon]

He has potential for growth, but he's not going to suddenly turn into an elite 3 just because you pay him like one

Well, I heard almost identical assessments of Harrison Barnes after the Mavs paid him 22 M a year, but it looks like the Mavs had the last laugh. Be careful about putting a low ceiling on a 23 year-old player.

[likashing]

He has potential for growth, but he's not going to suddenly turn into an elite 3 just because you pay him like one

Well, I heard almost identical assessments of Harrison Barnes after the Mavs paid him 22 M a year, but it looks like the Mavs had the last laugh. Be careful about putting a low ceiling on a 23 year-old player.

However, Gallo's starting salary is $30m...

[Slartibartfast]

He has potential for growth, but he's not going to suddenly turn into an elite 3 just because you pay him like one

Well, I heard almost identical assessments of Harrison Barnes after the Mavs paid him 22 M a year, but it looks like the Mavs had the last laugh. Be careful about putting a low ceiling on a 23 year-old player.

Barnes basically put up a prime Jeff Green on a bad team year.

For reference this was what Jeff Green put up in the half season with us in 14/15: 18/4/2 on 54TS%.

Barnes went 19/5/2 on 54TS%.

Big whoop. Barnes is a little better than prime Jeff (better shooter), but I'm not sure he's even as good as a prime Rudy Gay.

All oversized wings with good to great athleticism who spent all their talent points on mediocre volume scoring.

[KGboss]

Anyone see this article that Hayward "would consider" Boston?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Gallo isn't perfect, obviously. But as a plan D or E, sign me up. Otherwise we're paying 45 million to IT/Bradley and the cap space disappears anyway.

Helps we have the BKN picks and draftees - but the biggest risk right now is that we pay everyone and end up like Toronto or LAC - salary locked to a competitive but not great team, with no way to get better.