Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

[Celts17Pride]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

A lot depends on the opportunities we have, but I think if we're getting Fultz, at some point we have to choose between Smart or Bradley.

That doesn't mean you give them away. That's what bad GMs do. Ainge is not a bad GM

[cl2117]

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

Unless the cap goes up, which it might, one of Bradley, Smart and Crowder likely has to go in order to make room for Hayward if I'm not mistaken (which I may be).

In that case I think trading him for the 12th pick is actually great value. The goal should be to then flip that pick to land some front-court help though. Hayward replaces Bradley and then #12 goes out to improve our weaker areas, I think we can sell Gordon on that.

12th pick has no value. That's why Detroit is trying to get rid of it. Detroit trying to find a team willing to wait 4-5 years in hope that the pick becomes a rotation player. Van Gundy doesn't have 4-5 years that's why he wants immediate help.

Ainge isn't trading Crowder, Smart or Bradley for the 12th pick

Well of course the 12th pick has value, it's ludicrous to say otherwise. Feel free to argue whether it's worth Bradley, but it certainly has a decent amount of value. And you're right that's exactly what Van Gundy is trying to do, but that doesn't mean we can't do the same.

I guess my whole point was that IF Ainge had to jettison one of Smart, Crowder or Bradley in order to land Hayward (which I believe is the current situation depending on whether or not the cap raises from the current projection) THEN this wouldn't be a bad trade for the C's.

The real problem is that because the draft comes before free agency, we won't know whether we actually land Hayward before we'd be wanting to trade AB for #12. That's where this really falls apart. Ainge certainly isn't trading AB for #12 if we aren't getting Hayward.

[cl2117]

So I was arguing with a friend about his contention that the C's should "blow it up" since we won't beat LeBron or GSW and we should build for when those two teams will be on the decline, which I think is ludicrous. He basically wants to Hinkie it, trade IT, trade AB, trade Horford, and grab as many rookies as possible and hope 1 or 2 become stars (in addition to Fultz).

While I think that's insane, I humored him and we came up with a couple trades that the C's could do to nab as many 2017 lotto picks as possible and eating money that comes off the books in 2019. This is what we ended up with:

1) Boston and Detroit: AB and #37 for #12 and Aron Baynes

2) Boston and Portland: Zeller (waived) for #15, Evan Turner, Myles Leonard

3) Boston and Dallas: IT for #9 and TPE

4) Boston and New York: Horford and Smart for #8, Noah, Lance Thomas

If done in the right order the above deals can work for the cap (some don't work as a standalone, but I kept them that way for simplicity).

We end up with #1, #8, #9, #12. And a roster of:

Rozier/Jackson
Turner
Brown/Thomas
Crowder
Noah/Leonard/Baynes

We go straight back to the lottery in 2018 with 2 bites at the apple thanks to BKN and then have 3 picks in 2019 (again likely in the lottery ourselves). All the guys acquired (except for Baynes) have 3 years left on their deals meaning they expire right when Brown/Crowder need an extension and before all the 2017 picks would.

I don't think Ainge would be stupid enough to do this (nor would probably half the teams anyway), but it was kind of a fun exercise to put your "Hinkie hat" on and see exactly how rock bottom you could drop this team while collecting picks.

Can anybody do better? Make us a lotto team and snag as many lotto picks in the process as possible.

I feel like Philly was in similar situation to Celtics of last year when Jrue, Iggy, ET, Thaddeous Young made a spirited playoff series with C's. They have been hot garbage since and despite all these elite draft picks it's possible they could suck again and see all these young players looking for big contracts having hardly played for them at all - like Nerlens Noel.

It's an interesting exercise - and thanks for posting it - but a really bad plan.

Oh yeah it's an awful plan. I mean that team would be tremendously bad to watch and puts us back on the same path as Philly, but I don't even think it gives us a brighter outlook than them.

It's just actually quite fun because tearing a team down to the studs is a million times easier than trying to build one into a legit contender within the actual confines of the CBA/reality. Particularly when you're a team like Boston with a ton of guys who can contribute to a lot of different teams. It makes finding trade partners (assuming you just want picks back and don't mind eating salary) really easy.

[Roddy]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

A lot depends on the opportunities we have, but I think if we're getting Fultz, at some point we have to choose between Smart or Bradley.

IT / Fultz
Bradley / Smart

Crowder is gone.

[Froob]

So I was arguing with a friend about his contention that the C's should "blow it up" since we won't beat LeBron or GSW and we should build for when those two teams will be on the decline, which I think is ludicrous. He basically wants to Hinkie it, trade IT, trade AB, trade Horford, and grab as many rookies as possible and hope 1 or 2 become stars (in addition to Fultz).

While I think that's insane, I humored him and we came up with a couple trades that the C's could do to nab as many 2017 lotto picks as possible and eating money that comes off the books in 2019. This is what we ended up with:

1) Boston and Detroit: AB and #37 for #12 and Aron Baynes

2) Boston and Portland: Zeller (waived) for #15, Evan Turner, Myles Leonard

3) Boston and Dallas: IT for #9 and TPE

4) Boston and New York: Horford and Smart for #8, Noah, Lance Thomas

If done in the right order the above deals can work for the cap (some don't work as a standalone, but I kept them that way for simplicity).

We end up with #1, #8, #9, #12. And a roster of:

Rozier/Jackson
Turner
Brown/Thomas
Crowder
Noah/Leonard/Baynes

We go straight back to the lottery in 2018 with 2 bites at the apple thanks to BKN and then have 3 picks in 2019 (again likely in the lottery ourselves). All the guys acquired (except for Baynes) have 3 years left on their deals meaning they expire right when Brown/Crowder need an extension and before all the 2017 picks would.

I don't think Ainge would be stupid enough to do this (nor would probably half the teams anyway), but it was kind of a fun exercise to put your "Hinkie hat" on and see exactly how rock bottom you could drop this team while collecting picks.

Can anybody do better? Make us a lotto team and snag as many lotto picks in the process as possible.

I feel like Philly was in similar situation to Celtics of last year when Jrue, Iggy, ET, Thaddeous Young made a spirited playoff series with C's. They have been hot garbage since and despite all these elite draft picks it's possible they could suck again and see all these young players looking for big contracts having hardly played for them at all - like Nerlens Noel.

It's an interesting exercise - and thanks for posting it - but a really bad plan.

Oh yeah it's an awful plan. I mean that team would be tremendously bad to watch and puts us back on the same path as Philly, but I don't even think it gives us a brighter outlook than them.

It's just actually quite fun because tearing a team down to the studs is a million times easier than trying to build one into a legit contender within the actual confines of the CBA/reality. Particularly when you're a team like Boston with a ton of guys who can contribute to a lot of different teams. It makes finding trade partners (assuming you just want picks back and don't mind eating salary) really easy.

Brad may bail if we tear this team down completely. Smitty has hinted before that if the right NCAA job presented itself...

[jmr07019]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

So what sort of trades can you see?

Bradley to Charolette for 11 + MKG

Bradley to Sacto for 5 + 10

Bradley to Dallas for 9 + Noel

Bradley to NYK for 8 and Hermangomez

Bradley to Minni for 7 and Levine or Dunn

Bradley to Philly for either Lakers 18 or Sacto 19 pick

These all seem wildly unrealistic to me but I would love if his value was that high. I view the Ibaka trade as Orlando being stupid not a barometer of market value.

[ddb]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

So what sort of trades can you see?

Bradley to Charolette for 11 + MKG

Bradley to Sacto for 5 + 10

Bradley to Dallas for 9 + Noel

Bradley to NYK for 8 and Hermangomez

Bradley to Minni for 7 and Levine or Dunn

Bradley to Philly for either Lakers 18 or Sacto 19 pick

These all seem wildly unrealistic to me but I would love if his value was that high. I view the Ibaka trade as Orlando being stupid not a barometer of market value.

I don't think Bradley is going anywhere.

Crowder, despite having a great contract, is the guy that holds the most value in the group of Bradley, Crowder, Smart. I could see Danny dangling both Crowder & Smart in trade conversations.

IT/AB are the guys you want to keep long-term. Fultz/IT/Bradley should be the 3-headed guard monster moving forward. IT/Bradley could start for another year or 2 together with Fultz as 6th man type. By year 3 when Fultz is TWENTY ONE he should be ready to switch with IT....IT could then go on a tear of 3-5 consecutive 6th man of the year awards.

[Slartibartfast]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

3+D at the 4/5 is always going to be more valuable/rare then at the 2. And that trade basically got a GM fired.

But I hope you're right.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Celtics can sign a max guy, sign Thomas, sign Bradley and sign Smart if they choose

So you're proposing our pitch to Hayward be take less than max money to leave the team you've been with for 6-7 years?

We can't keep Bradley, Smart and Crowder and have max cap space and you've blasted a guy for proposing to trade Bradley or Crowder for a pick, so I don't really know what you're looking for.

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

Unless we shed 5 or so million from our cap, it is mathematically impossible to add to max free agent. How do you propose creating that space? Or, is your pitch to Hayward going to be to tell him to take a discount?

[greenroom31]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #6 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner, CJ Watson

Portland trades: #15 pick, Evan Turner
Portland gets: Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller (to be cut)

Orlando trades: Aaron Gordon, CJ Watson, #6 pick
Orlando gets: Avery Bradley, #15 pick

Why each team does it: Portland gets the salary dump they're looking for and ET clearly hasn't worked out the way they wanted. They also get back a quality SF at controlled cost in Crowder and even though they're trading away #15, they still have picks at #20 and #26.

Orlando needs more balance on their roster and has been playing Gordon out of position at SF. Bradley is an upgrade for them at the guard position and they move back 9 spots (from 6 to 15) to make the deal happen. Watson is on a $5 mil expiring deal and is in there just to make salaries work.

Boston's offseason plans to draft Fultz and sign Hayward make AB and Crowder more expendable. With the #6 pick they take whoever out of: Ball/Jackson/Fox/Monk/Tatum drops to them. They also bring back a talented young PF prospect in Gordon and Turner who can help lead the second unit. Boston rolls out a top 8 of:

IT/Fultz/Rozier/Smart/Turner/Hayward/Gordon/Horford

Plus Zizic/Yabu/Nader/DJ whoever else they sign/draft/trade for.

[Banks2Pierce]

IT/AB are the guys you want to keep long-term. Fultz/IT/Bradley should be the 3-headed guard monster moving forward. IT/Bradley could start for another year or 2 together with Fultz as 6th man type.

This will get way too expensive(see the dangercart stuff that 165bows has shared) unless we only roll with the players we have now and no Hayward type. Wouldn't even be a treadmill. It'd be a downward escalator into being the Bulls.

One of IT or Bradley has to go.

[SparringPartner]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

I just do not think that is how value is determined. I mean the Orlando GM was in hot water and just made a HORRIBLE move. He then turned around Ibaka to Toronto and got peanuts (an even WORSE move).

It is like saying 2 former All-Star aging veterans are worth the #17, #3 and #1 draft picks in consecutive years. We all know that is not true. Oh yeah, and maybe another #1 the following year

Avery Bradley is a valuable player no-doubt. IMO I think the C's could nab Minny's #7 this year for Bradley.

This is based on fit (Thibs), the fact that Minny needs to start winning now, and has the money to pay Bradley next year. The last thing Minny needs is the player they will get with that #7 pick.

[Drax]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #7 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner ...

NO NO NO. Please dear god no. The Evan Turner era is over, it is so over i can't even describe how over it is. I almost had to throw up once i got to that part. His contract and play style are so crap, stop right now, NO dear lord NO.

[greenroom31]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #7 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner ...

NO NO NO. Please dear god no. The Evan Turner era is over, it is so over i can't even describe how over it is. I almost had to throw up once i got to that part. His contract and play style are so crap, stop right now, NO dear lord NO.

1) Chill out, it really wasn't that bad of an era.
2) Fine, substitute Allen Crabbe in place of Evan Turner if it makes you happier. Here's a link to the replacement deal which also passes the trade checker:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870371

[SparringPartner]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #6 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner, CJ Watson

Portland trades: #15 pick, Evan Turner
Portland gets: Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller (to be cut)

Orlando trades: Aaron Gordon, CJ Watson, #6 pick
Orlando gets: Avery Bradley, #15 pick

I think this is a good proposed trade with fairly balanced value for each team, IF, Portland truly wants to cut salary. With that being said Orlando just paid Fournier BIG money, so I do not see them ALSO paying Bradley as neither of them could play the 3. If Bradley's value is lower because of that fact then he and the #15 aren't worth #6 and Gordon.

[BleedGreen1989]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #7 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner ...

NO NO NO. Please dear god no. The Evan Turner era is over, it is so over i can't even describe how over it is. I almost had to throw up once i got to that part. His contract and play style are so crap, stop right now, NO dear lord NO.

We actually could of really used Turner this year...

[AgentGreen]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

That´s a very interesting trade. I´m not a big fan of Vucevic because we need somebody tougher at the 5.. but it still shows us how creative we can get with all these options.. Who knows what kind of scenario's Ainge has written down.. Ntilikina is one of biggest sleepers in this draft imo.

[BleedGreen1989]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #6 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner, CJ Watson

Portland trades: #15 pick, Evan Turner
Portland gets: Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller (to be cut)

Orlando trades: Aaron Gordon, CJ Watson, #6 pick
Orlando gets: Avery Bradley, #15 pick

I think this is a good proposed trade with fairly balanced value for each team, IF, Portland truly wants to cut salary. With that being said Orlando just paid Fournier BIG money, so I do not see them ALSO paying Bradley as neither of them could play the 3.

Fournier can, just needs to play with a bulkier two who can take bigger wings. So maybe he'd be the "2" after all?

[Drax]

Spoiler:

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #7 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner ...

NO NO NO. Please dear god no. The Evan Turner era is over, it is so over i can't even describe how over it is. I almost had to throw up once i got to that part. His contract and play style are so crap, stop right now, NO dear lord NO.

1) Chill out, it really wasn't that bad of an era.
2) Fine, substitute Allen Crabbe's in place of Evan Turner if it makes you happier.

Why would the Celtics want any of those horrible Portland contracts? And at the same time trade two great contracts away. You want to trade AB, Crowder for #7, AG and capspace, ok i get that (wouldn't do it, but get it). But why would we want any of those crap guards while we're discussing who of our beloved guards has to make room for our #1 draft pick?

[BleedGreen1989]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

A lot depends on the opportunities we have, but I think if we're getting Fultz, at some point we have to choose between Smart or Bradley.

IT / Fultz
Bradley / Smart

Crowder is gone.

Crowder > Smart.