The case for Jonathan Isaac

[J_Magic]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

[Nemesis21]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

Are theses questions on Isaac?

A) pretty good
B) Nope his offense is good, and defense
C) Yes he does

[Nemesis21]

But is he a guy to build around?

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

Well DUH! Who is comparing Isaac to Dwight?

Nobody, Badmofo just trying to rile things up.

[Jameerthefear]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

He's not really a 1st option guy. Like a 3rd option guy.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[MagicFan101]

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

Well DUH! Who is comparing Isaac to Dwight?

Nobody, Badmofo just trying to rile things up.

What!? Badmofo trying to rile things up!? Well I never heard of such nonsense. Next you will be telling me I upset Tiderulz with every other post!

[Nemesis21]

Well DUH! Who is comparing Isaac to Dwight?

Nobody, Badmofo just trying to rile things up.

What!? Badmofo trying to rile things up!? Well I never heard of such nonsense. Next you will be telling me I upset Tiderulz with every other post!

[p0peye]

If DSJ is off the board at the time we pick, I'm all for Isaac. I don't think we should be looking for a guy which fits next to Gordon (or anyone else on our roster). We are looking for a guy to build around.

But is he a guy to build around?

You wanna know who's the guy to build around? Really?

There's no such thing as sure thing, son. This is draft, a lottery, a crapshoot, an "easy way out" that can never be obtained. You take your number and wait. I'm feeling DSJ is as good of a call as any. If he ain't there, I'll take Isaac.

[Skin]

Nice post. I think there is a lot to like about Isaac, and the sky is the limit for him. What worries me, though, is his role on this team. I agree that ideally he would be a perfect fit next to Gordon, especially defensively, but for a team that desperately needs more offense, I'm just not sure if Isaac is the answer. The starting 5 that you described, Payton/Ross/Isaac/Gordon/Biyombo, would almost certainly be one of the worst offenses in the NBA, if not the worst, and it wouldn't even be that much better if you substituted Vucevic for Biyombo.

What the Magic sorely lack, in my opinion, is a go-to scorer, or someone who you can rely on to get buckets when the team desperately needs them. The Magic have tried to turn several guys on the roster into this go-to scoring option, and none of it has really worked. Can Isaac be that guy? I'm skeptical, and in the little bit I saw from him at FSU he looked passive, which has me worried.

With that being said, though, Isaac obviously has a ton of potential and if he can put it all together he can be a very good player. Dennis Smith, Jr. is still my guy, but if the Magic do pick Isaac I won't be that upset.

I totally get the skepticism and I thought about that too. But I told myself that I can't think about fixing this roster in one year. I just can't put those expectations on the player we pick at 6. In the short term, we will just have to rely on improved scoring off the bench... which is what Fournier, Vucevic and others could very well do. In the long term, we focus on developing our youth and hopefully in 2-3 years time, they blossom.

The thing about Isaac that makes him more than just attractive for his defense is his variety of offensive skills at a player his size. Outside of the ridiculously high release point he has on his unblockable shot... You just don't see many big men even capable of bringing the ball up court... or shooting floaters down the lane... dribble jab... driving to the lane right or left... Eurostepping... or having a high passing IQ. He has a collection of raw skills which glimmers potential, but he has yet to put it all together. He's still prone to making mistakes and in the NBA he will be pushed around until he adds weight and muscle. But this ball of clay is made up of really good stuff!

There is the critique that he appears passive, but he is also an unselfish passer who was a freshman on a veteran squad. I think it's fair that he would look passive as an NBA rookie due to the same sort of issue, but I also think he's shown more than enough to get the respect of his elders and provide an immediate impact in the role he was given.

At 19 years old, 6'10 with plenty of room to grow, he offers a high floor and a high ceiling because he can already defend multiple positions, shoot the ball, put it on the floor, create for himself and others, rebound, and protect the rim. As I said before, there aren’t many players like him in the game.

[Just Plain Mark]

I think Isaac's offensive versatility and skill is being severely overstated in this thread and in the OP. NOTE: I am an FSU alum and fan

Evidence of Isaac's offensive limitations:
-He only spent 4% of his minutes in isolation on offense,
-he average ONE made three per game,
-he has a negative AST/TO rating per game,
-he scored in single digits in approximately 33% (11 of 32) games, and
-he had 9 games of 0 assists

He's a very good and versatile defensive player and he seems like he has a decent feel for the game offensively. His FT% is good and his shooting form is good, but he still only shot 34% from 3 on a low number of attempts, his ball handling isn't advanced and I don't think he'll be an above average creator for others.

I don't see the offensive potential that others do. He still may be BPA at 6, but I don't see him as a star nor as an above average offensive player.

[Skin]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

We all desperately want that. But we also have to be careful. NY has that in Melo. LAL has that in Nick Young. Having the mindset that you are the man and taking all the shots you want doesn't mean you will have a good team.

The game of basketball can be a beautiful game when players know their roles and execute them harmoniously as opposed to Iso ball where one player has the ball and everyone else watches. Spread motion offenses are on the rise in the NBA because there are so many tweeners and very few iso superstars, it allows teams of average size and abilities to overcome and defeat teams of superior talent and size. Spurs are the best example. It requires players to play together as a single unit, playing smart and unselfish basketball. Your team has to have players with high IQ. When you have a team with unselfish attitudes to create open shot opportunities for each other, defenses have to focus on stopping the whole team and not just one guy. The key is having teammates with skills to deliver when it's their job to put the ball in the bucket.

Vogel came here with the intent to scheme around the type of players we have. He used a slow halfcourt, set offense in Indiana because that is what played to their strengths. He came here talking about utilizing our youth to up the tempo of our style. "Pace and Space" was the buzzword, but we unfortunately we were incapable of spacing... lol. Theoretically, it should've worked better.. We brought in a bunch of .400 3PT% shooters (Augustin, Meeks, Wilcox)... we traded for a stretch 4 in Ibaka and kept Fournier's shooting over Dipo's... Vucevic was asked to extend his range to the 3... Hezonja was supposed to be a sharp shooting draft prospect... but it all fell apart. Too much selfishness, blame, poor player development and poor leadership lead to failed expectations.

Isaac may not be the ISO destroyer that is so misleadingly adored, but he has all the makings of a winning player that can elevate an entire team.

[Xatticus]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

We all desperately want that. But we also have to be careful. NY has that in Melo. LAL has that in Nick Young. Having the mindset that you are the man and taking all the shots you want doesn't mean you will have a good team.

The game of basketball can be a beautiful game when players know their roles and execute them harmoniously as opposed to Iso ball where one player has the ball and everyone else watches. Spread motion offenses are on the rise in the NBA because there are so many tweeners and very few iso superstars, it allows teams of average size and abilities to overcome and defeat teams of superior talent and size. Spurs are the best example. It requires players to play together as a single unit, playing smart and unselfish basketball. Your team has to have players with high IQ. When you have a team with unselfish attitudes to create open shot opportunities for each other, defenses have to focus on stopping the whole team and not just one guy. The key is having teammates with skills to deliver when it's their job to put the ball in the bucket.

Vogel came here with the intent to scheme around the type of players we have. He used a slow halfcourt, set offense in Indiana because that is what played to their strengths. He came here talking about utilizing our youth to up the tempo of our style. "Pace and Space" was the buzzword, but we unfortunately we were incapable of spacing... lol. Theoretically, it should've worked better.. We brought in a bunch of .400 3PT% shooters (Augustin, Meeks, Wilcox)... we traded for a stretch 4 in Ibaka and kept Fournier's shooting over Dipo's... Vucevic was asked to extend his range to the 3... Hezonja was supposed to be a sharp shooting draft prospect... but it all fell apart. Too much selfishness, blame, poor player development and poor leadership lead to failed expectations.

Isaac may not be the ISO destroyer that is so misleadingly adored, but he has all the makings of a winning player that can elevate an entire team.

[Skin]

I think Isaac's offensive versatility and skill is being severely overstated in this thread and in the OP. NOTE: I am an FSU alum and fan

Evidence of Isaac's offensive limitations:
-He only spent 4% of his minutes in isolation on offense,
-he average ONE made three per game,
-he has a negative AST/TO rating per game,
-he scored in single digits in approximately 33% (11 of 32) games, and
-he had 9 games of 0 assists

He's a very good and versatile defensive player and he seems like he has a decent feel for the game offensively. His FT% is good and his shooting form is good, but he still only shot 34% from 3 on a low number of attempts, his ball handling isn't advanced and I don't think he'll be an above average creator for others.

I don't see the offensive potential that others do. He still may be BPA at 6, but I don't see him as a star nor as an above average offensive player.

It's good to have differing opinions to hash out concerns, so I'm glad we have a mixed bag here.

I should clarify... if Isaac is our future long term SF, then I would agree that he has a higher hill to climb to be the type of player we would need him to be. It's his rarity of skills at a player his size that makes him the special player that I think he is. It's his versatility that makes me think so highly of him. Being able to play 3-5 on offense and on defense guard 1-5 is such a rare commodity. If Vogel is going to cookie cutter him at SF and not use him appropriately, then we might as well pass. For the beauty to be in the eye of the beholder with Isaac, that beholder has to envision Isaac as a new age big man who possesses skills of a wing. I might be guilty of foreseeing a more bulked up Isaac under NBA care and training regimen. But at least I put it out there that one of his strengths (that I see) will come as a small ball 5 in the new direction that the NBA is trending. That expectation might not happen next season as it will take time for him to develop.

But if I imagine where the league will be in 5 years before Isaac's rookie deal is up... and where Isaac will be in his body and game development at that time... I see a FORCE to be reckoned with... and the East ripe for the taking.

[Nemesis21]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

We all desperately want that. But we also have to be careful. NY has that in Melo. LAL has that in Nick Young. Having the mindset that you are the man and taking all the shots you want doesn't mean you will have a good team.

The game of basketball can be a beautiful game when players know their roles and execute them harmoniously as opposed to Iso ball where one player has the ball and everyone else watches. Spread motion offenses are on the rise in the NBA because there are so many tweeners and very few iso superstars, it allows teams of average size and abilities to overcome and defeat teams of superior talent and size. Spurs are the best example. It requires players to play together as a single unit, playing smart and unselfish basketball. Your team has to have players with high IQ. When you have a team with unselfish attitudes to create open shot opportunities for each other, defenses have to focus on stopping the whole team and not just one guy. The key is having teammates with skills to deliver when it's their job to put the ball in the bucket.

Vogel came here with the intent to scheme around the type of players we have. He used a slow halfcourt, set offense in Indiana because that is what played to their strengths. He came here talking about utilizing our youth to up the tempo of our style. "Pace and Space" was the buzzword, but we unfortunately we were incapable of spacing... lol. Theoretically, it should've worked better.. We brought in a bunch of .400 3PT% shooters (Augustin, Meeks, Wilcox)... we traded for a stretch 4 in Ibaka and kept Fournier's shooting over Dipo's... Vucevic was asked to extend his range to the 3... Hezonja was supposed to be a sharp shooting draft prospect... but it all fell apart. Too much selfishness, blame, poor player development and poor leadership lead to failed expectations.

Isaac may not be the ISO destroyer that is so misleadingly adored, but he has all the makings of a winning player that can elevate an entire team.

[Skin]

How is his feel for the game?
Does he need to be taught how to play offense like Dwight, Gordon, and everyone else we have drafted recently.

Does he have an appetite for the game or a Harkless type that would wasted their physical gifts?

I want us to draft an alpha. Someone that can come into the starting lineup and have free reign to shoot.

I think DSJr is the best choice and I hope he is available.

We all desperately want that. But we also have to be careful. NY has that in Melo. LAL has that in Nick Young. Having the mindset that you are the man and taking all the shots you want doesn't mean you will have a good team.

The game of basketball can be a beautiful game when players know their roles and execute them harmoniously as opposed to Iso ball where one player has the ball and everyone else watches. Spread motion offenses are on the rise in the NBA because there are so many tweeners and very few iso superstars, it allows teams of average size and abilities to overcome and defeat teams of superior talent and size. Spurs are the best example. It requires players to play together as a single unit, playing smart and unselfish basketball. Your team has to have players with high IQ. When you have a team with unselfish attitudes to create open shot opportunities for each other, defenses have to focus on stopping the whole team and not just one guy. The key is having teammates with skills to deliver when it's their job to put the ball in the bucket.

Vogel came here with the intent to scheme around the type of players we have. He used a slow halfcourt, set offense in Indiana because that is what played to their strengths. He came here talking about utilizing our youth to up the tempo of our style. "Pace and Space" was the buzzword, but we unfortunately we were incapable of spacing... lol. Theoretically, it should've worked better.. We brought in a bunch of .400 3PT% shooters (Augustin, Meeks, Wilcox)... we traded for a stretch 4 in Ibaka and kept Fournier's shooting over Dipo's... Vucevic was asked to extend his range to the 3... Hezonja was supposed to be a sharp shooting draft prospect... but it all fell apart. Too much selfishness, blame, poor player development and poor leadership lead to failed expectations.

Isaac may not be the ISO destroyer that is so misleadingly adored, but he has all the makings of a winning player that can elevate an entire team.

[PennytoShaq]

But is he a guy to build around?

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

Well DUH! Who is comparing Isaac to Dwight?

MOD EDIT - irrelevant

[pepe1991]

Honestlly, if Isaac is today even 60% of what some of you guys hype him to be- he would be biggest nobrainer 1# pick since Lebron James. But ,as always, because you feel like he could be Magic pick, you feel need to talk yourself into loving him.

Guy above said it best. By all stats he was medicore college player on offense . Right now he is raw , long and athletic combo wing prospect who will need time and space to develop. And some of your comments going into "5 years from now" - pls stop it. 5 years ago Roy Hibbert and Derron Williams were allstars and Bynum was allstar starter. In nba 5 years is lifetime ago. NBA prospects ,rookies and young players don't have 5 years. They have 3 if they are lucky, most of them have year- year and half until team decides to move in another direction. By the year three half of them are trade baits for more picks. That's cruel reality of NBA (litreally, out of top 12 picks in 2014, 6 of them were already traded )


I'm not saying it because i'm some blind hater, but you are setting yourself to disappointment. Most rookies suck. Even more if they play on awful teams. Don't do it to yourself. Magic, and whoever they pick have looooong , uphill battle to fight until we can say that team finally turned around.

[BadMofoPimp]

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

Well DUH! Who is comparing Isaac to Dwight?

Nobody, Badmofo just trying to rile things up.

Just trying to show that DSJ has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Isaac. But, that is hard to do when people troll my posts for the explicit intent of bashing me. I guess if I don't agree with your rhetoric, then I must endure constant character attacks.

When people cannot debate, they usually resort to character attacks.

And, to show who the real trolls are here, the OP said:

New Age Center - The Magic have always established themselves around an elite Center to propel them to the Finals (Shaq/Dwight). The next time this happens, it could be around a new age center in the mold of Jonathan Isaac..

And, I am the one being called a troll when trolls bash me for being on topic.

[Shady Franchise]

Well DUH! Who is comparing Isaac to Dwight?

Nobody, Badmofo just trying to rile things up.

Just trying to show that DSJ has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Isaac. But, that is hard to do when people troll my posts for the explicit intent of bashing me. I guess if I don't agree with your rhetoric, then I must endure constant character attacks.

That usually happens when people cannot debate. They can only attack.

That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison.

[BadMofoPimp]

Nobody, Badmofo just trying to rile things up.

Just trying to show that DSJ has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Isaac. But, that is hard to do when people troll my posts for the explicit intent of bashing me. I guess if I don't agree with your rhetoric, then I must endure constant character attacks.

That usually happens when people cannot debate. They can only attack.

That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison.

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

[Nemesis21]

Just trying to show that DSJ has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Isaac. But, that is hard to do when people troll my posts for the explicit intent of bashing me. I guess if I don't agree with your rhetoric, then I must endure constant character attacks.

That usually happens when people cannot debate. They can only attack.

That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison.

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

I'm not the only one who knows you occasionally troll. Look a few posts up. I don't see you whining to PennytoShaq.