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The case for Jonathan Isaac

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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#101 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 1:55 pm

RickB-Orlando wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:Let's say BOTH Fox and DSJR go to 5 and then we have the choice of Tatum or Isaac. Are we gonna stay as confident on Isaac if Tatum becomes available? Tough choice.

Do we draft the more nba ready guy who could prob help us win sooner than later or pick the high Potential guy who has a chance to become one of the best players in the draft?

I'm not convinced everyone is confident on Isaac. Personally I think Tatum is the better choice for this franchise.



I could say the same thing about any of the top players, using those key words in bold above. If you go into the draft thread that has the poll, nearly 30 people voted for Isaac. Nearly 40 voted for Tatum, DSJ. Just over 20 voted for Fox.

I don't think "everyone" has to be convinced on a certain player, for that player to be drafted by us.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#102 » by nymets1 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:11 pm

p0peye wrote:All being said, I don't think DSJ will be available at No. 6, both Philly and Kings need a PG. Damn basketball gods hate us!


Kings are not taking a PG, They got Darren Collison and Ty Lawson. Neither is great but they are doing just fine at the PG spot. I sense the Kings are taking Tatum
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#103 » by nymets1 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:18 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:Let's say BOTH Fox and DSJR go to 5 and then we have the choice of Tatum or Isaac. Are we gonna stay as confident on Isaac if Tatum becomes available? Tough choice.

Do we draft the more nba ready guy who could prob help us win sooner than later or pick the high Potential guy who has a chance to become one of the best players in the draft?


I was just thinking the Nba draft year that we had the #1 pick and we were deciding between Dwight Howard or Emika Okafor and we took Dwight Howard. I believe there was discussion back than do we take Okafor the most ready player right now or Dwight Howard who has bigger upside and obviously we made the right pick with Dwight Howard. I can't recall another time we picked:

Player A with more upside and potential over Player B who is more ready to contribute right now
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#104 » by Def Swami » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:24 pm

RickB-Orlando wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:Let's say BOTH Fox and DSJR go to 5 and then we have the choice of Tatum or Isaac. Are we gonna stay as confident on Isaac if Tatum becomes available? Tough choice.

Do we draft the more nba ready guy who could prob help us win sooner than later or pick the high Potential guy who has a chance to become one of the best players in the draft?

I'm not convinced everyone is confident on Isaac. Personally I think Tatum is the better choice for this franchise.

Same.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#105 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:27 pm

nymets1 wrote:
p0peye wrote:All being said, I don't think DSJ will be available at No. 6, both Philly and Kings need a PG. Damn basketball gods hate us!


Kings are not taking a PG, They got Darren Collison and Ty Lawson. Neither is great but they are doing just fine at the PG spot. I sense the Kings are taking Tatum



Oh really? That's funny because both Collison and Lawson are FAs after this coming season. They definitely could draft a PG with one of those top 10 picks, and not resign Collison and Lawson next summer.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#106 » by Def Swami » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:27 pm

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djhunkyherbs wrote:Nice post. I think there is a lot to like about Isaac, and the sky is the limit for him. What worries me, though, is his role on this team. I agree that ideally he would be a perfect fit next to Gordon, especially defensively, but for a team that desperately needs more offense, I'm just not sure if Isaac is the answer. The starting 5 that you described, Payton/Ross/Isaac/Gordon/Biyombo, would almost certainly be one of the worst offenses in the NBA, if not the worst, and it wouldn't even be that much better if you substituted Vucevic for Biyombo.

What the Magic sorely lack, in my opinion, is a go-to scorer, or someone who you can rely on to get buckets when the team desperately needs them. The Magic have tried to turn several guys on the roster into this go-to scoring option, and none of it has really worked. Can Isaac be that guy? I'm skeptical, and in the little bit I saw from him at FSU he looked passive, which has me worried.

With that being said, though, Isaac obviously has a ton of potential and if he can put it all together he can be a very good player. Dennis Smith, Jr. is still my guy, but if the Magic do pick Isaac I won't be that upset.

I totally get the skepticism and I thought about that too. But I told myself that I can't think about fixing this roster in one year. I just can't put those expectations on the player we pick at 6. In the short term, we will just have to rely on improved scoring off the bench... which is what Fournier, Vucevic and others could very well do. In the long term, we focus on developing our youth and hopefully in 2-3 years time, they blossom.

The thing about Isaac that makes him more than just attractive for his defense is his variety of offensive skills at a player his size. Outside of the ridiculously high release point he has on his unblockable shot... You just don't see many big men even capable of bringing the ball up court... or shooting floaters down the lane... dribble jab... driving to the lane right or left... Eurostepping... or having a high passing IQ. He has a collection of raw skills which glimmers potential, but he has yet to put it all together. He's still prone to making mistakes and in the NBA he will be pushed around until he adds weight and muscle. But this ball of clay is made up of really good stuff!

There is the critique that he appears passive, but he is also an unselfish passer who was a freshman on a veteran squad. I think it's fair that he would look passive as an NBA rookie due to the same sort of issue, but I also think he's shown more than enough to get the respect of his elders and provide an immediate impact in the role he was given.

At 19 years old, 6'10 with plenty of room to grow, he offers a high floor and a high ceiling because he can already defend multiple positions, shoot the ball, put it on the floor, create for himself and others, rebound, and protect the rim. As I said before, there aren’t many players like him in the game.

Isaac has a lot going on for him, but putting the ball on the floor and creating aren't really strong facets of his game.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#107 » by nymets1 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:51 pm

I see the Kings have the 5th, 10th and 34th pick in the draft. They could still get Frank Jackson, Frank Mason, Jawuan Evans or perhaps a different PG with the 34th pick. Or they could take Frank Ntilikina at the 10th pick. Tatum is going to available for them at the 5th pick, do I see the Kings passing on Tatum at the 5th pick? No way and if the Kings do than we will probably would draft Tatum at 6.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#108 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Jun 2, 2017 3:36 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Skin wrote:Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh :kissmybutt:


Since NOBODY read my post, I said:

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.


That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. People act like I am not allowed to disagree.

Personally, I think Isaac's ceiling is no greater than AG's. We have gone after the best athlete in the last few drafts aka Dipo, Mario, AG instead of intangibles. DSJ has a leadership mentality, a great shot way past 3 point range and great ability. Thus, a higher ceiling over a player who is mainly another athlete. Or, we can go another 5-10 years drafting athletes praying for the next Dwight.



Nope not true. We know what you said. So you brought up the Isaac/Dwight comparison on your own. We were saying nobody was trying to compare the two players.

Settle down nobody is attacking you. :cry:

Well you dont' watch much basketball, if you think Isaac's ceiling is only as high as AG's. Ummm, Isaac has a great jumper out to 3 pt range too. Guess you didn't watch much of his games. Thus do some homework. Isaac is much more of just an athlete playing basketball.


Jeez, you really didn't read the OP's original post. Perhaps, you should before posting attacks in this thread.

New Age Center - The Magic have always established themselves around an elite Center to propel them to the Finals (Shaq/Dwight). The next time this happens, it could be around a new age center in the mold of Jonathan Isaac.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#109 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 3:53 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Since NOBODY read my post, I said:



That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. People act like I am not allowed to disagree.

Personally, I think Isaac's ceiling is no greater than AG's. We have gone after the best athlete in the last few drafts aka Dipo, Mario, AG instead of intangibles. DSJ has a leadership mentality, a great shot way past 3 point range and great ability. Thus, a higher ceiling over a player who is mainly another athlete. Or, we can go another 5-10 years drafting athletes praying for the next Dwight.



Nope not true. We know what you said. So you brought up the Isaac/Dwight comparison on your own. We were saying nobody was trying to compare the two players.

Settle down nobody is attacking you. :cry:

Well you dont' watch much basketball, if you think Isaac's ceiling is only as high as AG's. Ummm, Isaac has a great jumper out to 3 pt range too. Guess you didn't watch much of his games. Thus do some homework. Isaac is much more of just an athlete playing basketball.


Jeez, you really didn't read the OP's original post. Perhaps, you should before posting attacks in this thread.

New Age Center - The Magic have always established themselves around an elite Center to propel them to the Finals (Shaq/Dwight). The next time this happens, it could be around a new age center in the mold of Jonathan Isaac.



Nobody is attacking you. :cry: Also as Skin said he wasn't trying to compare Dwight & Isaac, yet you keep bringing it up like Skin is.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#110 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Jun 2, 2017 3:55 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

Nope not true. We know what you said. So you brought up the Isaac/Dwight comparison on your own. We were saying nobody was trying to compare the two players.

Settle down nobody is attacking you. :cry:

Well you dont' watch much basketball, if you think Isaac's ceiling is only as high as AG's. Ummm, Isaac has a great jumper out to 3 pt range too. Guess you didn't watch much of his games. Thus do some homework. Isaac is much more of just an athlete playing basketball.


Jeez, you really didn't read the OP's original post. Perhaps, you should before posting attacks in this thread.

New Age Center - The Magic have always established themselves around an elite Center to propel them to the Finals (Shaq/Dwight). The next time this happens, it could be around a new age center in the mold of Jonathan Isaac.



Nobody is attacking you. :cry: Also as Skin said he wasn't trying to compare Dwight & Isaac, yet you keep bringing it up like Skin is.


And, my argument was only that I think DSJ has a higher ceiling than Isaac. Now, where did you start your troll posts from instead of actually trying to debate me?
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#111 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:00 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Jeez, you really didn't read the OP's original post. Perhaps, you should before posting attacks in this thread.




Nobody is attacking you. :cry: Also as Skin said he wasn't trying to compare Dwight & Isaac, yet you keep bringing it up like Skin is.


And, my argument was only that I think DSJ has a higher ceiling than Isaac. Now, where did you start your troll posts from instead of actually trying to debate me?



By the fact that you damn well know that you OCCASIONALLY troll. You also seem to now not know what occasionally means. Because I have used that word when bringing it up, yet yesterday you said I quote every post of yours calling you a troll. You and I both know that is not true. I have said occasional, when I did mention it. There are a few others that also say you occasional(now don't forget the meaning) troll, yet you only whine to me about it.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#112 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:09 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

Nobody is attacking you. :cry: Also as Skin said he wasn't trying to compare Dwight & Isaac, yet you keep bringing it up like Skin is.


And, my argument was only that I think DSJ has a higher ceiling than Isaac. Now, where did you start your troll posts from instead of actually trying to debate me?



By the fact that you damn well know that you OCCASIONALLY troll. You also seem to now not know what occasionally means. Because I have used that word when bringing it up, yet yesterday you said I quote every post of yours calling you a troll. You and I both know that is not true. I have said occasional, when I did mention it. There are a few others that also say you occasional(now don't forget the meaning) troll, yet you only whine to me about it.


So, I are you going to debate me on DSJ vs Isaac or troll?
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#113 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:11 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
And, my argument was only that I think DSJ has a higher ceiling than Isaac. Now, where did you start your troll posts from instead of actually trying to debate me?



By the fact that you damn well know that you OCCASIONALLY troll. You also seem to now not know what occasionally means. Because I have used that word when bringing it up, yet yesterday you said I quote every post of yours calling you a troll. You and I both know that is not true. I have said occasional, when I did mention it. There are a few others that also say you occasional(now don't forget the meaning) troll, yet you only whine to me about it.


So, I are you going to debate me on DSJ vs Isaac or troll?



Neither. I don't troll.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#114 » by Shady Franchise » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:57 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Shady Franchise wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Just trying to show that DSJ has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Isaac. But, that is hard to do when people troll my posts for the explicit intent of bashing me. I guess if I don't agree with your rhetoric, then I must endure constant character attacks.

That usually happens when people cannot debate. They can only attack.


That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! :lol: I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison. :wink:


The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.


Honestly, I don't know who those people are. I usually skip all the back and forth stuff and try to focus on facts and videos. I do apologize for messing around though, and I must have missed that Dwight comparison.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#115 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:08 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

By the fact that you damn well know that you OCCASIONALLY troll. You also seem to now not know what occasionally means. Because I have used that word when bringing it up, yet yesterday you said I quote every post of yours calling you a troll. You and I both know that is not true. I have said occasional, when I did mention it. There are a few others that also say you occasional(now don't forget the meaning) troll, yet you only whine to me about it.


So, I are you going to debate me on DSJ vs Isaac or troll?



Neither. I don't troll.


So, what you are trying to say is often attacking my posts without debating them is not trolling? I take that as not being able to debate, so resort to personal attacks which is exactly what trolling is.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#116 » by Skin » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:20 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:Let's say BOTH Fox and DSJR go to 5 and then we have the choice of Tatum or Isaac. Are we gonna stay as confident on Isaac if Tatum becomes available? Tough choice.

Do we draft the more nba ready guy who could prob help us win sooner than later or pick the high Potential guy who has a chance to become one of the best players in the draft?

I don't even know why people like Tatum in today's NBA. What is special about him?
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#117 » by Skin » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:23 pm

nymets1 wrote:
p0peye wrote:All being said, I don't think DSJ will be available at No. 6, both Philly and Kings need a PG. Damn basketball gods hate us!


Kings are not taking a PG, They got Darren Collison and Ty Lawson. Neither is great but they are doing just fine at the PG spot. I sense the Kings are taking Tatum

Wishful thinking, but those 2 are NOT going to be the reason why the Kings pass on a PG if they like him.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#118 » by Skin » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:39 pm

Shady Franchise wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Shady Franchise wrote:
That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! :lol: I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison. :wink:


The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.


Honestly, I don't know who those people are. I usually skip all the back and forth stuff and try to focus on facts and videos. I do apologize for messing around though, and I must have missed that Dwight comparison.

No, don't folllow BMP's inability to read. There was never a Dwight comparison. He's the only one who read the OP and came away with that silly notion.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#119 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:42 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
So, I are you going to debate me on DSJ vs Isaac or troll?



Neither. I don't troll.


So, what you are trying to say is often attacking my posts without debating them is not trolling? I take that as not being able to debate, so resort to personal attacks which is exactly what trolling is.


No, I haven't said that. That's what you want to think I'm saying. Nobody is attacking you. :cry:
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#120 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:44 pm

Skin wrote:
Shady Franchise wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.


Honestly, I don't know who those people are. I usually skip all the back and forth stuff and try to focus on facts and videos. I do apologize for messing around though, and I must have missed that Dwight comparison.

No, don't folllow BMP's inability to read. There was never a Dwight comparison. He's the only one who read the OP and came away with that silly notion.



Exactly!! Then claims I'm the one who can't read. :dontknow:

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