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Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1021 » by stitches » Fri Jun 2, 2017 1:55 pm

SeanBobcats wrote:
JDR720 wrote:Im not that interested in Hood, he seems to have regressed this season.

If we are trading for a Utah player, I would prefer Favors.

Maybe #11, Marco (or Lamb) and Sessions (decline his option) for Favors. Marvin too if you want him.


Favors isn't at all worth the 11th pick. And that's not even considering the fact that he would just be a backup big that is decent at protecting the rim. I expect a starting caliber player or at least a player with the potential to be that whenever trading a lottery pick. Favors could start on some teams, but he'd be a weak point in a starting lineup on any half decent team

Lol, back up to who? Zeller? Or Kaminsky? Favors is now not a starting caliber player? NBA fans have officially gone insane. If Favors is healthy he's a ~top 30 player in the league. That's really the only question mark with him right now.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1022 » by Diop » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:11 pm

Favors is certainly starting calibre, just doesn't fit with our team. Zeller is better suited to start with our offence and he wouldn't really fit alongside Favors, similar to the issue you probably have now with Gobert.

Just a bad fit to sacrifice a 11 pick.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1023 » by stitches » Fri Jun 2, 2017 3:53 pm

Diop wrote:Favors is certainly starting calibre, just doesn't fit with our team. Zeller is better suited to start with our offence and he wouldn't really fit alongside Favors, similar to the issue you probably have now with Gobert.

Just a bad fit to sacrifice a 11 pick.

IMO Zeller is not a player to dictate whether or not you trade for a player of Favors' pedigree and quality. (This all is conditional on your team's doctors being OK with his health of course)
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1024 » by chellis » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:38 pm

stitches wrote:
SeanBobcats wrote:
JDR720 wrote:Im not that interested in Hood, he seems to have regressed this season.

If we are trading for a Utah player, I would prefer Favors.

Maybe #11, Marco (or Lamb) and Sessions (decline his option) for Favors. Marvin too if you want him.


Favors isn't at all worth the 11th pick. And that's not even considering the fact that he would just be a backup big that is decent at protecting the rim. I expect a starting caliber player or at least a player with the potential to be that whenever trading a lottery pick. Favors could start on some teams, but he'd be a weak point in a starting lineup on any half decent team

Lol, back up to who? Zeller? Or Kaminsky? Favors is now not a starting caliber player? NBA fans have officially gone insane. If Favors is healthy he's a ~top 30 player in the league. That's really the only question mark with him right now.


Give me some time after I pick my kids up at school but I want to see if I can come up with 30 better players in the league. Because I wouldn't have originally said that.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1025 » by stitches » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:56 pm

chellis wrote:Give me some time after I pick my kids up at school but I want to see if I can come up with 30 better players in the league. Because I wouldn't have originally said that.


I'm gonna spare you the time. Here's a list of NBA player rankings by series of NBA publications from right before this current season started(before he got injured). You can quibble whether he's top 30 or top 40 or thereabout, you can argue if this player or that player should be ahead or after him. My point was he's in that realm and very far from a player who should be considered anything but a high end starting PF in the league(when healthy):

Spoiler:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/sports/nba-top-100-players-2016/
Washington post - Favors ranked no. 29 in their preseason player rankings.
It's taken some time, given how young and raw Favors was when he entered the league, but he has become an excellent player for the Jazz. Like Hayward, though, Favors need to prove he can be a leading man on a leading team if Utah is going to take the next step as a franchise.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank39/nbarank-39-utah-jazz-forward-derrick-favors
ESPN Rank - Favors ranked no. 39 in their player rankings pre-season
Scouting report

+ Combo big man who is a plus at either position

+ Excellent finisher who can post up most power forwards

+ Mobile defender who blocks enough shots to anchor defense

Analysis

Already a six-year NBA veteran at age 25, Favors has established himself as a solid 16-point, eight-rebound a game contributor who has the ability to play both frontcourt spots effectively. Though Favors still has two years left on his contract, since he's making just $23 million over that span, he could be a candidate for a renegotiation and extension that would lock him in past the summer of 2018 at a below-max rate.

Favors creates a reasonable number of his own shots for a big man. Besides putbacks, those come mostly in the post, where he scored twice as many points (198) as the rest of the Jazz combined (97), according to Synergy Sports tracking on NBA.com/Stats. Favors has a little hook with either hand and likes to face up slower defenders when playing center to use his quickness. Favors is also Utah's best option in the pick-and-roll game, though the presence of Rudy Gobert around the basket sometimes forces him to pop to the perimeter. Favors is less effective there, having shot just 33.1 percent on 2-point attempts beyond 16 feet, per Basketball-Reference.com.

Favors' versatility is valuable defensively, as he can swing between the two frontcourt spots depending on teammates. He's a strong pick-and-roll defender who can capably switch out on guards -- a particularly effective weapon at center -- but he is also a shot-blocking presence. Playing alongside Gobert depresses Favors' individual stats. He averaged 9.9 rebounds and 1.9 blocks per 36 minutes with Gobert on the bench, per NBA.com/Stats, as compared to 8.2 and 1.3 playing with him. But the Jazz's defense is 2.0 points better per 100 possessions with Favors and Gobert, and somewhat surprisingly, Utah scores better with both big men despite limited floor spacing.


https://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/12/nba-top-100-player-rankings
Sports Illustrated - Favors was ranked no. 28 in the league in their top 100 players ranking
The Jazz are zigging where a lot of teams are zagging, and Derrick Favors’s comprehensive two-way game makes it all possible. With so many teams hoping to play smaller and faster, the 25-year-old Favors makes for a nightly mismatch. His strength, honed scoring ability and motor are tough to handle for perimeter-oriented fours, as he can pound the glass on both ends and work his way to high-percentage shots against undersized defenders. At the same time, Favors (16.4 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 1.5 BPG) moves well defensively for a man of his size, meaning he can be played for stretches alongside a true center without being exposed. As a result, the Jazz can trot out traditional lineups featuring Favors and Rudy Gobert that control the tempo, force lots of tough and contested looks, dominate the glass and suck the life out of the opposition. But, wait, there’s more: Favors can also shift up to play center, giving coach Quin Snyder a strong backline defender at his disposal for all 48 minutes. This year, Utah should be able to downshift into spread looks more easily thanks to the additions of Boris Diaw and Joe Johnson, plus growth from Trey Lyles. With extra space, Favors should be in even better position to operate one-on-one in the paint against overmatched defenders. If Utah takes a step forward in the standings, as expected, it will be fascinating to see how the rest of the West will handle matchups with Favors in the postseason. Do you stay big in hopes of neutralizing him, thereby going along with Utah’s preferred style? Or, do you try to go small in hopes of playing him or Gobert off the court while running the risk that he might pound you into submission? (Last year: No. 37)

+ One of just eight players to average at least one steal and one block last season, he graded out well defensively by the major advanced metrics and can comfortably handle both fours and fives
+ His physicality and skill make him hard to stop when he works up a head of steam going to the hoop, whether he’s making decisive moves from the post, crashing the offensive glass, cutting hard to the basket off the ball, or rolling with purpose in the two-man game
– He missed a career-high 20 games last season, including an extended stretch due to a back injury
– He forms a beastly pairing with Rudy Gobert on the defensive end, but he needs to continue to improve his shooting if the Jazz are going to find enough offensive spacing with that duo.



https://www.nba.com/article/2016/10/25/ranking-top-power-forwards-2016-17-nba-season
NBA.com - Favors ranked no. 6 PF in the league
The big man is a throwback in the era of the stretch-four, hanging around the basket to score his points and acting as rim protector along with Rudy Gobert in the Jazz’ strong defensive front line. It’s been a slow and steady work in progress to coax the 16.4 points and 8.1 rebounds per game that Favors delivered a year ago. Now there are some impatient fans in Utah that might be inclined toward Trey Lyles and his shooting range. But it would be unwise to turn the page on Favors just when he’s hitting his stride. He's strong, lengthy and, perhaps most notably, doesn’t mind at all mixing things up on the inside and doing the dirty work. There could be a breakout season waiting to happen.



https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-top-100-nba-players-lebron-still-reigns-two-warriors-on-his-heels/
CBS Sports - Favors is ranked no. 29 in their Top 100 players ranking from before the season:
This is a major move for a player who was statistically similar last season to the season, similar enough to suggest he plateaued. Or maybe it's just belated appreciation for all that the Georgia Tech product provides, with the promise -- at 25 -- of the next leg up.

He rebounds. He defends in the post. He blocks shots. He plays perfectly off his center, Rudy Gobert, on both ends. He scores efficiently even while a metric misfit; he stepped out more into the 10 to 15 feet area last season, but still has attempted only one three-pointer in eight seasons. Now he'll get more overall looks until Gordon Hayward returns, and to make that long-ago Deron Williams deal look even better.


https://www.slamonline.com/nba/slam-top-50/derrick-favors-48/
SLAM Magazine - Favors was ranked no. 48 in their top 50 players in the league ranking
The Jazz are a sexy pick to make the Playoffs this season and Favors is a big reason why.

Derrick Favors dropped a career-high 35 against the Pacers last season. It was the biggest offensive explosion of his career, only the second 30-point game he’s had in six years. But he was nice during that game. He was hitting jumpers, dropping his left shoulder into every defender that tried to stop him from getting to the rim, getting dunks. He put his old-school game on full display that night.

Favors uses mid-range shots, post-ups, duck-ins and throw downs to get his buckets. On defense, the 25-year-old uses his brute strength to gain position for rebounds, blocks and stops. He’s not out there shooting threes. He’s not jumping out the gym like these new-age athletes. But he’s getting the job done.

Now entering his seventh season, his maturity and poise has turned him into a rock for a Jazz team trying to make the Playoffs.

When he spoke to SLAM last month, Favors was all about capitalizing on being a leader:

“When I started out last year, I was like, Man, I’ve been in the NBA six years. I’m now an established vet. I’m getting old now,” he said.

It might sound funny to hear a 25-year-old say that, but that’s really how Favors operates. He’s all business, a big picture kind of a guy. He’s not about the numbers, although 16 points, 8 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per ain’t nothin’ to sneeze at.

He’s been chipping away at getting to the Playoffs his whole career. All the while, his individual game has grown, making him a force to be reckoned with. On both sides of the ball, Favors is for real.

He carries the responsibility of reliability on his shoulders, knowing how much the Jazz need from him. On any given night, the power forward runs the offense from the elbow, dishing, shooting and driving. He and Rudy Gobert anchor one of the League’s best defenses. While Gobert makes the loud, flashy plays, Favors is the one holding down the fort.

With Gordon Hayward and Rodney Hood taking all the risks with the ball, Favors has to be the one that head coach Quinn Snyder can trust to come through no matter what.

“This offseason, I’ve been busting my ass in workouts to reach that next level,” Favors told us last month. “Working on everything. Jumpshot, post moves. Working out on my body because I got injured last year. Making sure I’m healthy going into next year. I’ve just been working on everything.”

Yeah, it took him six years to have a big scoring night. But don’t let that fool you. Derrick Favors has all the tools to get buckets every night. He also has the IQ to understand that scoring doesn’t always lead to winning. And all he wants to do is win..


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-53-best-franchise-players-in-the-nba-2016-17-edition/
Favors was ranked no. 29 in fivethirtyeitht's preseason Top NBA franchise players ranking.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1026 » by CatgutStitches » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:56 pm

Yeah...that seems pushing it. I like Favors and think hes a good, versatile, big, but I think people dont realize how important Zeller is to our team and to our gameplan. As far as a guy to pair with our best player (Kemba) I really cant think of very many better C's I'd take over him.

Either way, interesting discussion
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1027 » by fatlever » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:35 pm

Biggest question isn't what people thought of Favors last offseason, but what they think of him this offseason. How serious are his injuries? He was a completely different player for most of this year. Can he get back to where he was at the end of last year? I'm guessing that part of Favors rankings from last offseason were people banking on him taking another step, but instead he went backwards. Lets watch those same publication this upcoming offseason. I bet Favors drops out of the top 50.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1028 » by stitches » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:18 pm

fatlever wrote:Biggest question isn't what people thought of Favors last offseason, but what they think of him this offseason. How serious are his injuries? He was a completely different player for most of this year. Can he get back to where he was at the end of last year? I'm guessing that part of Favors rankings from last offseason were people banking on him taking another step, but instead he went backwards. Lets watch those same publication this upcoming offseason. I bet Favors drops out of the top 50.


Of course... like I said - a lot depends on what his medical prognosis is. Jazz GM said around trade deadline that they don't expect Favors to get to 100% this season, because he needs extended rest in the off-season and because he's playing through his injury. He also said they don't expect it to be a long-term concern, that he doesn't need any medical procedure, just rest in the off-season. We have no idea if he's just blowing smoke, or if he's truthful. I guess any team that wants him will have to do their medical work on him for any deal to go through. For what it's worth it seems like he's already started training from pictures on his instagram.

About his rankings, of course he will drop significantly because he was nowhere near his usual self this year while playing through pain, but that doesn't really answer the question - obviously injured Favors is not top 30 player in the league. For example he replied to Zach Harper on twitter "I'm playing on one leg" when he commented about Favors' shockingly bad finishing around the rim this year(when he's been around 70% finisher(elite)) throughout his career.

The good thing is that he's still just 25 years old, and players that young rarely just fall off a cliff without any major injury/surgery.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1029 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:31 pm

I think that Favors would be a really bad fit for the Hornets. Our coach's offensive scheme relies on spacing and having a 4 that can shoot 3s, make good passes, and cut to the rim when needed. I just don't see that as Favors' game at all.

On the right team maybe Favors is one of the top guys in the NBA, but he wouldn't be that here.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1030 » by LofJ » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:48 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I think that Favors would be a really bad fit for the Hornets. Our coach's offensive scheme relies on spacing and having a 4 that can shoot 3s, make good passes, and cut to the rim when needed. I just don't see that as Favors' game at all.

On the right team maybe Favors is one of the top guys in the NBA, but he wouldn't be that here.


Favors would play Center for us. He'd be a great pairing with either Frank or Marvin. He and Zeller wouldn't work together (at all) in our offense, but they'd be spectacular on defense.

The problem is that Utah needs to convince Hayward and Hill to sign with them. And I'm not sure that trading Favors to move up in the draft helps them there. They'd need to bring back a player capable of helping them now.

Maybe Lopez and Booker to Utah
Favors and 24 to us
11, Burks, and Plumlee to Brooklyn

I'm not sure the Nets would go for that though.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1031 » by JDR720 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 3:11 pm

Lopez and gobert wouldn't work at all.

And favors would be a c here. Higher end platoon type thing with zeller and favors. Could use favors size/shot blocking against the bigger east centers.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1032 » by LofJ » Sat Jun 3, 2017 4:35 pm

JDR720 wrote:Lopez and gobert wouldn't work at all.

And favors would be a c here. Higher end platoon type thing with zeller and favors. Could use favors size/shot blocking against the bigger east centers.


They definitely wouldn't play together. Lopez would have to be their high end 6th man. Booker, Lyles, or Diaw would start.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1033 » by LofJ » Sun Jun 4, 2017 4:25 pm

If Toronto signs Lowry to a big extension I think they'd be interested in moving Cory Joseph. They have Wright and Powell in addition to him , so I would think they'd prioritize another position for that cap space.

Lamb or Bellineli for Joseph?
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1034 » by HornetJail » Sun Jun 4, 2017 6:39 pm

Marco definitely isn't enough. I'd rather just use the MLE on Darren Collison than move Lamb for CoJo and have to sit through Clifford closing games with Marco again.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1035 » by chellis » Sun Jun 4, 2017 7:18 pm

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Marco definitely isn't enough. I'd rather just use the MLE on Darren Collison than move Lamb for CoJo and have to sit through Clifford closing games with Marco again.


Yeah, but I have a feeling Collison will go for more than the MLE.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1036 » by ammofan » Sun Jun 4, 2017 9:13 pm

I'd love to know what the Lakers want for Clarkson. I think he'd work great here in the J Lin role.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1037 » by BuzzCity » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:31 am

ammofan wrote:I'd love to know what the Lakers want for Clarkson. I think he'd work great here in the J Lin role.


I love Clarkson's size
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1038 » by BatumtheGlue » Tue Jun 6, 2017 3:35 am

BuzzCity wrote:
ammofan wrote:I'd love to know what the Lakers want for Clarkson. I think he'd work great here in the J Lin role.


I love Clarkson's size

He is a bad defender. I'd rather Cory Joseph.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1039 » by HornetJail » Tue Jun 6, 2017 3:42 am

chellis wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Marco definitely isn't enough. I'd rather just use the MLE on Darren Collison than move Lamb for CoJo and have to sit through Clifford closing games with Marco again.


Yeah, but I have a feeling Collison will go for more than the MLE.

I don't think he does. The MLE is 8-9M now. Collison's last two contracts were a 1 year $2M and a 3 year MLE. He's also 30 at the start of next season. I think a 3 year, $24M contract should do it.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#1040 » by LofJ » Wed Jun 7, 2017 12:05 pm

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:
chellis wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Marco definitely isn't enough. I'd rather just use the MLE on Darren Collison than move Lamb for CoJo and have to sit through Clifford closing games with Marco again.


Yeah, but I have a feeling Collison will go for more than the MLE.

I don't think he does. The MLE is 8-9M now. Collison's last two contracts were a 1 year $2M and a 3 year MLE. He's also 30 at the start of next season. I think a 3 year, $24M contract should do it.


We could also go cheap and sign Carter-Williams as a reclamation project. If we're going to ride out Bellineli's contract for one more season we could use a guard with length and athleticism to pair with him.

That said Favors should be the team's top trade target. If the Jazz retain Hayward and Hill it's a foregone conclusion that Favors will be traded, his own agent said as much:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/5322788-155/utah-jazz-does-derrick-favors-still

We all know how much Cho loves Utah guys. I'm still disappointed that they matched on the offer we gave to Hayward. How smart did that turn out to be?

Edit: And if not Favors maybe we should reach out to Hayward again to see if he'd be interested in a sign and trade. We'd send Utah Batum in return. The benefit to Gordon is that he wouldn't leave the Jazz high and dry. And he obviously had interest in playing for us before, so it's worth a shot I think.

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