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2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3

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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#421 » by skones » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:31 pm

Bernman wrote:Why is Anigbogu a better prospect than, say, a guy like Kaba? They have similar measurements. Kaba is now in the 240's to 250's weight-wise. Kaba has the jumper teams now crave from a big. He's a better handler. He's more aware. He's more graceful. He's a better rebounder. Anigbogu has a better block rate, but also a significantly higher foul rate. So it's a trade off. Kaba has a vastly superior steal rate. Kaba's #'s, when he stepped up in comp, are extremely intriguing. Efficiency dropped somewhat, but volume went up, rebounds were all the way up to 10 in 26 minutes, he averaged 1.6 steals and 1.2 blocks. His steal-rate is consistently really high overall for a big, making his deflection-rate good overall.

Kaba's name has been around for a little while though. So it loses luster. Anigbogu is in the honeymoon period. That would be a reach of a pick. He's more theoretical potential guy, not realistic, let alone mostly developed one. He was a limited bench player at UCLA. Behind fellow frosh T.J. Leaf, who would be the superior pick at 17, and then we may get the better version of Anigbobu w/ our 2nd. Although I suspect some GM's see similar things I do with Kaba.


Literally a week ago in a conversation about Bolden, you were telling me that one league is significantly weaker (ie, the very one where Kaba plays), and therefore not translatable yet here you are directly comparing numbers.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#422 » by TaterTots » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:41 pm

Bernman wrote:
TaterTots wrote:kaba is also 21 while Ike is the youngest player in the draft


That's not inherently worth anything. At a point you would have been the youngest player in the draft. So would have Kaba. Still had the length then. Was leaner so could get stronger (and did), but Anigbogu can't get much stronger than he already is. He's physically pretty developed. He might read the game somewhat better over time and stop fouling so much. But his block rate will take a hit from that, and he's not going to get any less clumsy. He doesn't have foundation for a very good jumper or handle. Very stiff and uncoordinated. Kaba was already showing these perimeter skills at Anigbogu's age.

Incidentally, Kaba is 20. His birthday is Sept. 21, 1996. Not that it matters much. But for whatever reason DX lists him incorrectly.


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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#423 » by Bernman » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:41 pm

skones wrote:Literally a week ago in a conversation about Bolden, you were telling me that one league is significantly weaker (ie, the very one where Kaba plays), and therefore not translatable yet here you are directly comparing numbers.


It's predictable someone would make that false equivalency/straw-man. As I said at the time, if Bolden didn't have the sample in major NCAA where he'd play considerably more players who'll be in the NBA, his prospects would appear better to me. But the reality is that did occur. Bolden also didn't play in any better European competitions, unlike Kaba, where he actually improved his stats, outside efficiency. Anigbogu is more equivalent to Bolden as a player that didn't perform that well at UCLA.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#424 » by skones » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:44 pm

Bernman wrote:
skones wrote:Literally a week ago in a conversation about Bolden, you were telling me that one league is significantly weaker (ie, the very one where Kaba plays), and therefore not translatable yet here you are directly comparing numbers.


It's predictable someone would make that false equivalency/straw-man. As I said at the time, if Bolden didn't have the sample in major NCAA where he'd play considerably more players who'll be in the NBA, his prospects would appear better to me. But the reality is that did occur. Bolden also didn't play in any better European competitions, unlike Kaba, where he actually improved his stats, outside efficiency. Anigbogu is more equivalent to Bolden as a player that didn't perform that well at UCLA.


No. You're trying to have it both ways. You're undermining Bolden's productivity in the Adriatic league and not doing the same for Kaba. You're saying, well, "Bolden's productivity here, doesn't matter because it's a weak league, because two years ago it wasn't there where there are future NBA guys" and simultaneously saying, "Kaba's productivity when held up against Anigbogu's, is better" even if the differences are marginal at best.

If that's the case, your arguments against Bolden don't fly.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#425 » by Bernman » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:45 pm

TaterTots wrote:age is always worth something to these people


You're missing the point. It's not inherently worth anything. It depends what areas you need to work on and your room for improvement. A guy like Anigbogu who is as physically developed as he is, but uncoordinated, if that's not due to the nagging injury he had, has less room for improvement than the next guy. He can improve to a degree, but some who are 19 have no more realistic room for improvement than some who are 21. All players are individuals at the end of the day. They shouldn't all be conflated.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#426 » by Bernman » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:50 pm

skones wrote:No. You're trying to have it both ways. You're undermining Bolden's productivity in the Adriatic league and not doing the same for Kaba.


You're not being intellectually honest here. It is a false equivalency. I explained how they're different. One failed in the NCAA's already, the other didn't. I said this at the time, that I'd hold him in higher regard if that didn't happen. But it did. Also, Champions' League is not a competition Bolden played in. Kaba did, and succeeded at an even higher level than in the Adriatic League. You're trying for an I gotcha that's not there to discredit my dissent on Bolden.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#427 » by skones » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:51 pm

Bernman wrote:
skones wrote:No. You're trying to have it both ways. You're undermining Bolden's productivity in the Adriatic league and not doing the same for Kaba.


You're not being intellectually honest here. It is a false equivalency. I explained how they're different. One failed in the NCAA's already, the other didn't. I said this at the time, that I'd hold him in higher regard if that didn't happen. But it did. Also, Champions' League is not a competition Bolden played in. Kaba did, and succeeded at an even higher level than in the Adriatic League. You're trying for an I gotcha that's not there to discredit my dissent on Bolden.


No. I'm being intellectually honest here. You're the one being dishonest based upon your previous arguments about production. If Jonah Bolden failed the NCAAs, and produces at a similar or better rate than Kaba in the same league, what does that say about the guy you're currently pimping?

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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#428 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Jun 2, 2017 6:55 pm

If you can get Tristan Thompson with the 17th pick, that's a damn good pick you just made.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#429 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 2, 2017 7:02 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:If you can get Tristan Thompson with the 17th pick, that's a damn good pick you just made.

With or without a Kardashian sister?
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#430 » by Badgerlander » Fri Jun 2, 2017 7:03 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:If you can get Tristan Thompson with the 17th pick, that's a damn good pick you just made.


So you're taking Jordan Bell?
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#431 » by freewhitemoon » Fri Jun 2, 2017 7:06 pm

If you want a Tristan Thompson type, Jordan Bell will be available at 17. Though I still think we need a manbeast center to avoid getting creamed by KAT, Embiid, Jokic types in the future
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#432 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Jun 2, 2017 7:10 pm

I don't feel comfortable projecting Jordan Bell to be arguably the best offensive rebounder in the entire NBA.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#433 » by M-C-G » Fri Jun 2, 2017 7:53 pm

Badgerlander wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:If you can get Tristan Thompson with the 17th pick, that's a damn good pick you just made.


So you're taking Jordan Bell?


Are there standing reaches similar? I thought Bell had a decent but not good wing while TT physical profile was pretty close to Ike?

Per 40 comps
TT - 17 pts, 10 reb, 3.1 blk, 1.2 stl
Ike - 14.5 pts, 12 reb, 3.7 blk, .5 stl
Bell - 15 pts, 12 reb, 3.1, 1.5 stl

Size
TT - 6'9, 7'1 wing, 9'0 reach, wt 227
Ike - 6'10, 7'6 wing, reach 9'2, wt 252
Bell - 6'8, 7' wing, 8'8 reach , wt 224
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#434 » by Badgerlander » Fri Jun 2, 2017 8:07 pm

M-C-G wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:If you can get Tristan Thompson with the 17th pick, that's a damn good pick you just made.


So you're taking Jordan Bell?


Are there standing reaches similar? I thought Bell had a decent but not good wing while TT physical profile was pretty close to Ike?


-There was a lot of intrigue around the measurements of Oregon junior Jordan Bell as he looks to translate his rebounding and defensive enforcer role to the NBA level. Bell stood 6'8.5 with shoes on and posted a wingspan just under 7'0. While those numbers are not elite, Bell can make up for some of his lack of ideal size with effort and athleticism. His measurements are not all that far off from Tristian Thompson who measured 6'8.75 with a 7'1.25 at the 2011 NBA Combine. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements-analysis-5927/ ©DraftExpress


however Bell's standing reach is only 8'8.5" while Tristans is 9'0.5"


-18-year-old UCLA center Ike Anigbogu measured 6'8.5 barefoot with a massive 7'6.25 wingspan, giving him the largest wingspan-to-height differential at this year's NBA Combine and one of the top marks in our database all-time surpassing notoriously long players like Kawhi Leonard and Hassan Whiteside by a comfortable margin. Tipping the scales at 252 pounds, Anigbogu is a rare physical specimen whose closest physical comparison is likely Alonzo Mourning who measured 6'9.5 in shoes with a 7'6.5 wingspan and a 249-pound frame in 1992 as a 22-year-old after his senior season at Georgetown. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements-analysis-5927/ ©DraftExpress
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#435 » by M-C-G » Fri Jun 2, 2017 8:26 pm

Badgerlander wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:
So you're taking Jordan Bell?


Are there standing reaches similar? I thought Bell had a decent but not good wing while TT physical profile was pretty close to Ike?


-There was a lot of intrigue around the measurements of Oregon junior Jordan Bell as he looks to translate his rebounding and defensive enforcer role to the NBA level. Bell stood 6'8.5 with shoes on and posted a wingspan just under 7'0. While those numbers are not elite, Bell can make up for some of his lack of ideal size with effort and athleticism. His measurements are not all that far off from Tristian Thompson who measured 6'8.75 with a 7'1.25 at the 2011 NBA Combine. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements-analysis-5927/ ©DraftExpress


however Bell's standing reach is only 8'8.5" while Tristans is 9'0.5"


-18-year-old UCLA center Ike Anigbogu measured 6'8.5 barefoot with a massive 7'6.25 wingspan, giving him the largest wingspan-to-height differential at this year's NBA Combine and one of the top marks in our database all-time surpassing notoriously long players like Kawhi Leonard and Hassan Whiteside by a comfortable margin. Tipping the scales at 252 pounds, Anigbogu is a rare physical specimen whose closest physical comparison is likely Alonzo Mourning who measured 6'9.5 in shoes with a 7'6.5 wingspan and a 249-pound frame in 1992 as a 22-year-old after his senior season at Georgetown. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements-analysis-5927/ ©DraftExpress


I actually thought TT had a much bigger wing span, like in the 7'4 range...was surprised by that once I looked it up.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#436 » by Matches Malone » Fri Jun 2, 2017 8:27 pm

Wow
Read on Twitter
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#437 » by Rockmaninoff » Fri Jun 2, 2017 8:46 pm

Matches Malone wrote:Wow
Read on Twitter


Not surprised at all. Bradley is young, productive, and super long. He won't kill your offense or your defense. Plenty of upside.

Per 40: 20/14 with a/to of 1 and only 5 fouls.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#438 » by Gam » Fri Jun 2, 2017 9:19 pm

Bernman wrote:
TaterTots wrote:age is always worth something to these people


You're missing the point. It's not inherently worth anything. It depends what areas you need to work on and your room for improvement. A guy like Anigbogu who is as physically developed as he is, but uncoordinated, if that's not due to the nagging injury he had, has less room for improvement than the next guy. He can improve to a degree, but some who are 19 have no more realistic room for improvement than some who are 21. All players are individuals at the end of the day. They shouldn't all be conflated.


Actually, age is the top predictor of NBA success among players drafted in similar ranges. That combined with the fact that Ike has only been playing basketball for three years (which is another top predictor for growth once drafted and was even less time than Giannis had been before he was drafted and we all know how quickly he improved) makes him a must pick for me if he's on the board at 17 and someone from the 'top 11' or Mitchell doesn't fall. Not to mention how badly we could use a 'garbage man' Center.


Worth a read: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/what-predicts-nba-success/
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#439 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 2, 2017 9:30 pm

Rockmaninoff wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:Wow
Read on Twitter


Not surprised at all. Bradley is young, productive, and super long. He won't kill your offense or your defense. Plenty of upside.

Per 40: 20/14 with a/to of 1 and only 5 fouls.

And statistically the best offensive rebounder in the draft.

Hah, I've been saying he's the most underrated player in the draft. Draftexpress has him somewhere in the 40's. That's probably going to change quick.
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Re: 2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3 

Post#440 » by BucksFanSD » Fri Jun 2, 2017 9:41 pm

Chad Ford had Bradley as a projected mid-1st all year. His lack of athleticism/quickness at the Combine probably moves him into the mid-20s IMO. Great size, wingspan, and rebounding. Analytics like him too. I would like to draft him if we trade back into the 20s. His size and rebounding would help this team. He's another big in this draft that you would wonder if he would break out if he stayed a second year in college.

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