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Hayward Undecided

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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#401 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Sat Jun 3, 2017 12:14 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:I think it's pretty damn telling that we've done everything in our power to call last season a bridge year and maintain max space. I think this may be a situation similar to Horford, where we have a pretty good idea internally that he's coming.

Could be wrong, but there are about 3 teams that may be able to beat the Warriors in the next 5 years. The Celtics, with their assets, are one of them.

The Warriors domination is going to have a fall out. New super teams will coalesce. A lot of teams will tank. And players will flock from west to east, as that's a far easier path to the finals.

Just gotta pray for Boogie to leave NO next year and AD is ours. I could seriously **** with a IT-AB-Hayward-AD-Horford team.

right, and thats the thing. its just too obvious..
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#402 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:18 am

Just realized Hayward is #20. Poor Fultz is gunna have to give that up after summer league.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#403 » by liveod » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:38 am

Na we're retiring #20 for Ray.

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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#404 » by Jaqua92 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:52 am

I just can't see anyway New Orleans gets rid of Anthony Davis. Unless he's coming up on free agency
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#405 » by smart_celtics » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:53 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:I think it's pretty damn telling that we've done everything in our power to call last season a bridge year and maintain max space. I think this may be a situation similar to Horford, where we have a pretty good idea internally that he's coming.


I am less confident. Clearly the cap space last year was all about Durant and Horford and we only got Horford. Also there has been a decent amount of reporting that other teams were in the mix (including the Wizards) so I don't think it was a fait accompli.

I think its clear they want a shot at Hayward or Griffin, but I don't think its clear we will succeed.

Just look at Dallas after their title, they took a bunch of steps to open and maintain max cap space and never got the free agents they were looking for.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#406 » by Kefa461 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 2:53 am

Gotta get Anthony Davis too ......Davis and GH would make for good baseline.....me likes....... 8-)
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#407 » by brackdan70 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 3:17 am

wo wo wo wo!!!!
hold the phone.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#408 » by Leprechaun18 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 5:32 am

rickrolled wrote:Utah has a good coach and Gobert. Those are the only reasons Hayward would stay there.

What! We got IT.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#409 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Jun 3, 2017 11:16 am

Leprechaun18 wrote:
rickrolled wrote:Utah has a good coach and Gobert. Those are the only reasons Hayward would stay there.

What! We got IT.


Actually Hayward's friends on the team are Ingles and Hill both of whom are FAs. So I doubt Gobert and 1 year of Snyder will make much of a difference for him, especially after watching game 1 of the Finals.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#410 » by bucknersrevenge » Sat Jun 3, 2017 4:59 pm

Boston34Bg wrote:
Leprechaun18 wrote:
rickrolled wrote:Utah has a good coach and Gobert. Those are the only reasons Hayward would stay there.

What! We got IT.


Actually Hayward's friends on the team are Ingles and Hill both of whom are FAs. So I doubt Gobert and 1 year of Snyder will make much of a difference for him, especially after watching game 1 of the Finals.


From what I've heard, they have told Hill to go see what his value is and come back to them which was the same thing they told Hayward before. Hayward was Restricted when that happened though, Hill is not. So if Hill doesn't like how Utah deals with him he could just bounce. If San Antonio comes calling back for him, which is certainly possible if CP3 stays in LA, Hill could be next on their list. He played their before. Knows the culture. And if that happens, why would Gordon stay? Hell even if Hill stays, Utah is going to have to show them how their pathway to improvement and I'm just not sure what that is right now.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#411 » by SparringPartner » Sat Jun 3, 2017 5:02 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:
Leprechaun18 wrote:What! We got IT.


Actually Hayward's friends on the team are Ingles and Hill both of whom are FAs. So I doubt Gobert and 1 year of Snyder will make much of a difference for him, especially after watching game 1 of the Finals.


From what I've heard, they have told Hill to go see what his value is and come back to them which was the same thing they told Hayward before. Hayward was Restricted when that happened though, Hill is not. So if Hill doesn't like how Utah deals with him he could just bounce. If San Antonio comes calling back for him, which is certainly possible if CP3 stays in LA, Hill could be next on their list. He played their before. Knows the culture. And if that happens, why would Gordon stay? Hell even if Hill stays, Utah is going to have to show them how their pathway to improvement and I'm just not sure what that is right now.


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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#412 » by bucknersrevenge » Sat Jun 3, 2017 5:50 pm

SparringPartner wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:
Actually Hayward's friends on the team are Ingles and Hill both of whom are FAs. So I doubt Gobert and 1 year of Snyder will make much of a difference for him, especially after watching game 1 of the Finals.


From what I've heard, they have told Hill to go see what his value is and come back to them which was the same thing they told Hayward before. Hayward was Restricted when that happened though, Hill is not. So if Hill doesn't like how Utah deals with him he could just bounce. If San Antonio comes calling back for him, which is certainly possible if CP3 stays in LA, Hill could be next on their list. He played their before. Knows the culture. And if that happens, why would Gordon stay? Hell even if Hill stays, Utah is going to have to show them how their pathway to improvement and I'm just not sure what that is right now.


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Still searching for where I read that they told him to see what his value is. May have been a podcast I heard but still searching. Did find this article however which does speak to the fact that Hill's people think he's worth a max deal but Utah is not willing to go there right now. They had the chance to extend him earlier but couldn't get it done. This echoes the point that perhaps Utah is not willing to go where Hill wants them 1) because they also have other players they need to resign 2) they want to make sure that they are not outbidding themselves, especially in light of Hill's injury issues this year. This was a tactic they employed during the Hayward negotiations previously when they matched the offer sheet Hayward signed with Charlotte. It's entirely possible that resigning Hayward may preclude a Hill signing which would certainly depress the talent level and send them back further in the West. It's not a good position for Lindsey to be in. He doesn't have a ton of leverage here.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/05/09/utah-jazz-nba-offseason-preview-gordon-hayward-george-hill
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#413 » by Writebloc » Sun Jun 4, 2017 8:52 pm

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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#414 » by Romeiro Celtic » Mon Jun 5, 2017 9:33 pm

I don't know if I'd trade this year's 1st pick for Anthony Davis straight up with fillers. I'd rather have a long-term success with Fultz and find a big man that can provide us boost on the defensive end of the floor, helps us with the boards and don't kill us on offense, doesn't really need to be a superstar, not being Ibaka I'm happy.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#415 » by sully00 » Tue Jun 6, 2017 2:39 am

romeiroceltic wrote:I don't know if I'd trade this year's 1st pick for Anthony Davis straight up with fillers. I'd rather have a long-term success with Fultz and find a big man that can provide us boost on the defensive end of the floor, helps us with the boards and don't kill us on offense, doesn't really need to be a superstar, not being Ibaka I'm happy.


Uh no if, #1 and any other 3 things can get us AD I think I am doing that Boston has good guards.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#416 » by sully00 » Tue Jun 6, 2017 2:50 am

31to6 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Some of you guys just need to take a cold shower when it comes to Fultz. He's a terrible fit for the Celtics roster and very questionable as a defender. If the hype is real, Ainge should trade the pick. If it isn't real, he should draft someone else.


Why not at least put such smoking takes in the appropriate thread? Or is the Fultz thread the one where you're urging us to max Otto Porter?

This thread should be reserved for Sully throttling the group think on giving $30M to Hayward when we've got Brown and Fultz.


I am not even against signing Hayward. I just need to see the plan on that one. It can't be sign Hayward move Crowder to the bench, not play Brown, but plan on Yabu, Zizic, and Horford as the only bigs.

It would seem to me the plan should be to try and bring Hayward and Favors to Boston in exchange for KO, Crowder and some draft assets or young players. Even if it is a situation where we sign Hayward outright and trade for Favors at least that makes sense. SF's and SG's are weird assets in the NBA everyone is willing to pay them silly money but it is tough to get a decent return on them in a trade.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#417 » by Fencer reregistered » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:06 am

sully00 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Some of you guys just need to take a cold shower when it comes to Fultz. He's a terrible fit for the Celtics roster and very questionable as a defender. If the hype is real, Ainge should trade the pick. If it isn't real, he should draft someone else.


Why not at least put such smoking takes in the appropriate thread? Or is the Fultz thread the one where you're urging us to max Otto Porter?

This thread should be reserved for Sully throttling the group think on giving $30M to Hayward when we've got Brown and Fultz.


I am not even against signing Hayward. I just need to see the plan on that one. It can't be sign Hayward move Crowder to the bench, not play Brown, but plan on Yabu, Zizic, and Horford as the only bigs.

It would seem to me the plan should be to try and bring Hayward and Favors to Boston in exchange for KO, Crowder and some draft assets or young players. Even if it is a situation where we sign Hayward outright and trade for Favors at least that makes sense. SF's and SG's are weird assets in the NBA everyone is willing to pay them silly money but it is tough to get a decent return on them in a trade.


That reads as if you're saying "Don't sign Hayward unless Utah also agrees to trade us Favors." Of course, that can't really be what you mean. :)

Anyhow, the simplest mechanism for signing Hayward is:

-- Renounce all our FAs (mainly bigs).
-- Trade a guard. (Bradley or Smart).
-- Sign Hayward to cap room.
-- Sign the rookies, including stashes.

In that model:

-- You're right that we only start with Horford and the rookies as bigs ...
-- ... plus Crowder, who would surely be the putative starter.
-- But we also have a full MLE to work with.
-- Whatever happens in the guard trade, we have the ability to bring back a big with some salary, into a trade exception if nothing else. And of course we have lots of picks to trade.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#418 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Tue Jun 6, 2017 12:45 pm

I am all for signing Hayward and at least make the season more interesting but I am wondering if the organization feels the same especially after seeing the cavs getting manhandled by the warriors.
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#419 » by CeltsfaninDC » Tue Jun 6, 2017 11:44 pm

romeiroceltic wrote:I don't know if I'd trade this year's 1st pick for Anthony Davis straight up with fillers. I'd rather have a long-term success with Fultz and find a big man that can provide us boost on the defensive end of the floor, helps us with the boards and don't kill us on offense, doesn't really need to be a superstar, not being Ibaka I'm happy.

HUH????? No, you trade that pick of an unknown player for the best young C in the game today. Ainge can't say YES quick enough
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Re: Hayward Undecided 

Post#420 » by sully00 » Wed Jun 7, 2017 1:11 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
sully00 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
Why not at least put such smoking takes in the appropriate thread? Or is the Fultz thread the one where you're urging us to max Otto Porter?

This thread should be reserved for Sully throttling the group think on giving $30M to Hayward when we've got Brown and Fultz.


I am not even against signing Hayward. I just need to see the plan on that one. It can't be sign Hayward move Crowder to the bench, not play Brown, but plan on Yabu, Zizic, and Horford as the only bigs.

It would seem to me the plan should be to try and bring Hayward and Favors to Boston in exchange for KO, Crowder and some draft assets or young players. Even if it is a situation where we sign Hayward outright and trade for Favors at least that makes sense. SF's and SG's are weird assets in the NBA everyone is willing to pay them silly money but it is tough to get a decent return on them in a trade.


That reads as if you're saying "Don't sign Hayward unless Utah also agrees to trade us Favors." Of course, that can't really be what you mean. :)

Anyhow, the simplest mechanism for signing Hayward is:

-- Renounce all our FAs (mainly bigs).
-- Trade a guard. (Bradley or Smart).
-- Sign Hayward to cap room.
-- Sign the rookies, including stashes.

In that model:

-- You're right that we only start with Horford and the rookies as bigs ...
-- ... plus Crowder, who would surely be the putative starter.
-- But we also have a full MLE to work with.
-- Whatever happens in the guard trade, we have the ability to bring back a big with some salary, into a trade exception if nothing else. And of course we have lots of picks to trade.


How and when are you going to trade a guard? At the draft? Trading Bradley or Smart is a pretty big trade. Are you just salary dumping them? Do you do this with Hayward agreeing to sign first or in hopes that he does sign?

Signing Hayward is multi step process, it doesn't mean you don't do it it just means it is complicated. It is dangerous to put yourself in a situation where you need another team's help. I am not trading Bradley or Smart hoping that Hayward wants to hook up that is what desperate losers, do need to know.

Utah seems set to deal Favors unrelated to what Hayward does. If he is healthy he is a good fit for Boston if your not going to go with a blue chip option at the 4/5. While Utah would prefer to keep Hayward if that isn't going to happen I imagine they would jump at the chance to collect some young talent, draft picks, and a trade exception to deal with their loss.

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