Potential sleepers

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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#901 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 2, 2017 1:47 pm

Fischella wrote:
RipCity71252 wrote:I've researched the hell out of this draft and there is a distinct lack of starter potential outside the lottery imo.

Jawun Evans, P.J. Dozier and Frank Jackson are my highest upside non-lottery guys w/ Kadeem Allen as my sleeper plus role player.


I like Allen as he has fared great against the best talent on defense, but the issue with him is that he has to play as a wing on offense, needs like the perfect fit almost and is kind of old, still in the 2nd or as a bet as an undrafted I am fine with him.

The most slept on prospect is by far Cyrille Eliezer-Vanerot

Sounds like a good draft and stash candidate as a 3 and D SF. Do you know what his wingspan is?

I don't think Kadeem Allen gets drafted, because he's going to be a 25 year old rookie. And while he made a good percentage of his 3's, he didn't take enough to convince me he'll be an effective shooter in the NBA.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#902 » by No-Man » Fri Jun 2, 2017 2:57 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:
RipCity71252 wrote:I've researched the hell out of this draft and there is a distinct lack of starter potential outside the lottery imo.

Jawun Evans, P.J. Dozier and Frank Jackson are my highest upside non-lottery guys w/ Kadeem Allen as my sleeper plus role player.


I like Allen as he has fared great against the best talent on defense, but the issue with him is that he has to play as a wing on offense, needs like the perfect fit almost and is kind of old, still in the 2nd or as a bet as an undrafted I am fine with him.

The most slept on prospect is by far Cyrille Eliezer-Vanerot

Sounds like a good draft and stash candidate as a 3 and D SF. Do you know what his wingspan is?

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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#903 » by doordoor123 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 3:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:
RipCity71252 wrote:I've researched the hell out of this draft and there is a distinct lack of starter potential outside the lottery imo.

Jawun Evans, P.J. Dozier and Frank Jackson are my highest upside non-lottery guys w/ Kadeem Allen as my sleeper plus role player.


I like Allen as he has fared great against the best talent on defense, but the issue with him is that he has to play as a wing on offense, needs like the perfect fit almost and is kind of old, still in the 2nd or as a bet as an undrafted I am fine with him.

The most slept on prospect is by far Cyrille Eliezer-Vanerot

Sounds like a good draft and stash candidate as a 3 and D SF. Do you know what his wingspan is?

I don't think Kadeem Allen gets drafted, because he's going to be a 25 year old rookie. And while he made a good percentage of his 3's, he didn't take enough to convince me he'll be an effective shooter in the NBA.


At the combine he was trying to show he can be a point guard because he's undersized. I think there's a chance he makes the league on his defense alone. It's rare to find a point guard that can defend high-profile guards and he has the speed to chase really quick guards. It's the reason Matthew Dellavedova gets paid so much (not his speed, his ability to defend guards). It's also the reason Briante Weber keeps getting NBA gigs. Not sure he makes it, but he has a chance to prove himself.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#904 » by 4PointPIay » Fri Jun 2, 2017 4:05 pm

I say Frank Ntilikina is a lowkey kinda sleeper. I feel like he's top 5 talent that might fall outside the top 10 due to so many players at the same position ahead of him.

If he played college ball I feel like he'd be closer to DSJ, fox and Monk.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#905 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 2, 2017 5:42 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:
I like Allen as he has fared great against the best talent on defense, but the issue with him is that he has to play as a wing on offense, needs like the perfect fit almost and is kind of old, still in the 2nd or as a bet as an undrafted I am fine with him.

The most slept on prospect is by far Cyrille Eliezer-Vanerot

Sounds like a good draft and stash candidate as a 3 and D SF. Do you know what his wingspan is?

I don't think Kadeem Allen gets drafted, because he's going to be a 25 year old rookie. And while he made a good percentage of his 3's, he didn't take enough to convince me he'll be an effective shooter in the NBA.


At the combine he was trying to show he can be a point guard because he's undersized. I think there's a chance he makes the league on his defense alone. It's rare to find a point guard that can defend high-profile guards and he has the speed to chase really quick guards. It's the reason Matthew Dellavedova gets paid so much (not his speed, his ability to defend guards). It's also the reason Briante Weber keeps getting NBA gigs. Not sure he makes it, but he has a chance to prove himself.

Sorry, I'm skeptical. Weber set all-time records for steals. He's one of a kind as far as causing turnovers. Allen's just a little above average in getting steals. Delly gets by on D because of hustle - nothing else - and he's really not a good defender when he plays a lot of minutes. He got exposed as a starter for the Bucks. Hopefully Allen gets a shot and proves me wrong.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#906 » by doordoor123 » Fri Jun 2, 2017 10:05 pm

Ruzious wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Sounds like a good draft and stash candidate as a 3 and D SF. Do you know what his wingspan is?

I don't think Kadeem Allen gets drafted, because he's going to be a 25 year old rookie. And while he made a good percentage of his 3's, he didn't take enough to convince me he'll be an effective shooter in the NBA.


At the combine he was trying to show he can be a point guard because he's undersized. I think there's a chance he makes the league on his defense alone. It's rare to find a point guard that can defend high-profile guards and he has the speed to chase really quick guards. It's the reason Matthew Dellavedova gets paid so much (not his speed, his ability to defend guards). It's also the reason Briante Weber keeps getting NBA gigs. Not sure he makes it, but he has a chance to prove himself.

Sorry, I'm skeptical. Weber set all-time records for steals. He's one of a kind as far as causing turnovers. Allen's just a little above average in getting steals. Delly gets by on D because of hustle - nothing else - and he's really not a good defender when he plays a lot of minutes. He got exposed as a starter for the Bucks. Hopefully Allen gets a shot and proves me wrong.


Like I said, I don't think it's a for sure thing he makes the league, but he has a chance because of his defense. I honestly don't think he makes the league at all.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#907 » by whitehops » Sat Jun 3, 2017 1:55 am

my friend is really high on jonah bolden, here is something he posted on another forum:
Spoiler:
A year ago, the most undervalued prospect by most internet scouts & the media was - IMO - Thon Maker. His draft stock appeared to be in the late 1st to early 2nd range. DX was particularly down on Maker, never wavering on his ranking as a 2nd rounder. Their scouting videos of Thon primarily used footage from 2015 Hoop Summit practices (SMH) and seemed to downplay his elite physical profile & intriguing 2-way skillset. Maker was out of sight, out of mind - having played an extra year of high school with Toronto’s Athlete Institute.

Maker ranked 9th overall on my 2016 big board, and he’d be borderline top 5 upon re-evaluation of the class today. He became Milwaukee’s starting center after Jabari Parker was injured, albeit in limited minutes. The Bucks went 20-11 after the injury, earning a playoff berth. Maker played a more meaningful roll in the playoffs (19.4 mpg) where he shut down the Raptors’ guards in the PnR, and made life hell for the Raps at the rim. Maker scored 14.5 points per 36 min as a rookie (56% TS), almost exclusively from hustle plays and spot-up shooting. Even if Thon never develops into a more versatile offensive threat, he’ll have a productive career terrorizing opponents on defense with his one-of-a-kind combo of size & mobility.

Jonah Bolden is 2017’s Thon Maker. Not necessarily by game/athletic profile (his best prospect comp is Jonathan Isaac), instead because he’s criminally undervalued. He’s been similarly out of sight, out of mind - having played in the Adriatic League (ABA) this season after an inconsistent season with UCLA. The media and internet scouts haven’t woke yet, but he’s improved by leaps and bounds since his time with the Bruins. Don’t be surprised if a smart NBA team selects Bolden in the lottery, just like Milwaukee did with Maker a year ago.

Physical Profile - Bolden’s upside starts with his tremendous physical tools for either forward spot. He was listed at 6’10 as a 19-year-old at UCLA, which makes sense based on photos with officially-measured UCLA bigs (Kevon Looney, Thomas Welsh, Tony Parker). My best guess is Bolden is between 6’10 and 6’11 in shoes now. His current listed weight is 227 lbs, with a 7’4 wingspan. He's a great all-around athlete. He’s fast in the open floor and moves exceptionally well laterally. He’s fluid in his movements and has very quick feet for his size. He also shows nice explosion in space, often finishing above the rim with ease. His conditioning & motor is excellent (26.9 mpg). Bolden needs to get stronger to handle interior physicality in the NBA, without sacrificing the tremendous mobility that makes him valuable on the perimeter. He has plenty of room left on his large frame.

Defensive Impact - Bolden already has a significant impact on defense, and possesses great potential on that end of the floor. He primarily guards 3’s and 4’s in Europe, both at a high level. He’s athletically superior in virtually all his defensive matchups, which will be the case in the NBA with added strength. He’s at his best guarding on the perimeter, where his height, length, agility and footwork make him a remarkably rangy defender. He switches on to guards with ease, and constantly causes deflections (2.1 STL per 40). Off the ball, Bolden shows solid (but not spectacular) awareness & feel for team defensive concepts. He’s well-positioned & active vs. the PnR, and typically makes the right defensive rotations. He can still improve his discipline with more experience, but already makes plays others cannot with his range. Bolden mixes emphatic weak-side rejections with impressive on-ball blocks (1.5 BLK per 40). The potential is there to be a strong rim protector in more of a PF/C role than his current combo forward position. Bolden is sometimes knocked for inconsistent effort on defense, but those reports are off-base. He plays with a great motor, hustling back on D and flying around to make plays. Perhaps the criticism stems from his lack of physicality, which is Bolden’s most apparent weakness. Not only does he need to add strength, but he lacks a degree of toughness in the paint as well. He can be moved on the block by stronger opponents, which will be more noticeable as an NBA rookie. He also gets pushed around on the defensive glass (6.7 D-Reb per 40), though his perimeter responsibilities don’t leave him in the best position to pull down defensive boards.

Offensive Skillset - Despite a fairly low usage rate for FMP Beograd, Bolden still managed to be a productive scorer in the ABA (18.4 PTS per 40, 56.8 TS%). His most translatable skill is his shooting ability. His jumper is much more consistent than what UCLA fans might remember (40%, 2.4 3PM per 40). He’s got an effortless stroke with a high & quick release, and natural sway. He’s already a consistent threat out to deep NBA range. Better yet, Bolden has shown to be equally adept off the dribble as he is when spotting up. He rises up over the D with his high release off the dribble, whether from deep or in mid-range spots. He gets separation with a smooth handle and nifty footwork for a 6’10+ prospect. Bolden’s flashy handle shows up most often in transition, with plenty of space to operate. He’s not afraid to push the ball down floor, and has surprising vision on the break (2.4 AST per 40). He also runs the floor hard in transition without the ball, finishing explosively in space. Bolden’s high motor is apparent off the ball in the half court. He has a decent feel for how to get open, works hard to get there, and possesses great hands to catch & finish. He could have scored many more easy buckets this year if FMP’s guards were more willing & able to get him the ball. He also crashes the offensive boards effectively with his motor & physical gifts (4.0 O-Reb per 40). The above skills + experience in Europe should allow Bolden to play a complementary role on offense early on in his NBA career. His offensive upside depends on his development as a creator & playmaker, along with added strength. He’s an unselfish player, and shows flashes of creating off the dribble with a quick first step. However, he forces in tight spaces (2.8 TO per 40) or settles to avoid them altogether. While he could use more polish on his handle and improved decision-making in the half court, the main culprit is his lack of strength & physicality. Bolden rarely posts up, and struggles to explode through contact & finish in traffic. Bolden has struggled to get to the line this season, and hit his FT’s when he gets there (61.1 % on 3.9 FTA per 40). He’s shot in the mid-70’s during college and other events, and should put this year’s aberration behind him with more reps of his picturesque shooting stroke.

Bolden is a comparable prospect to Jonathan Isaac, with similar athletic abilities and skillsets on both ends of the court. Isaac is a little quicker & twitchier, and plays with more toughness. Bolden is a little stronger & longer, and has a better outside shot. Both fit the profile of a modern-day PF, with the potential to play SF (and eventually small-ball C) as well. Isaac will pretty much have to start out at SF in the NBA since he’s so skinny, while Bolden’s extra size should allow him to play a role at PF right away. Bolden is a year & a half older than Isaac, but arguably has as much upside. His outside shot and initial versatility advantage probably makes him more NBA-ready than Isaac. Both players are worth a top 10 pick in this draft.

Fun Fact: Jonah Bolden won the ABA Top Prospect Award this year. The previous 3 winners of the award were Dario Saric, Nikola Jokic, & Ante Zizic.


link: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/2017s-most-underrated-prospect
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#908 » by bondom34 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 3:16 am

Yeah I'm on the Bolden hype train.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#909 » by GimmeDat » Sat Jun 3, 2017 3:53 am

I've been talking about Bolden for forever now, but I'd like to point out that I think he's a PF. Some think he's an SF, and maybe he can play that in spurts, but for the most part I think he's strictly a PF.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#910 » by doordoor123 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 4:03 am

So I listen to any podcast ever about the draft (usually with the big draft analysts/writers) and I follow them all on Twitter, and I also read a bunch of hoopshype media twitter accounts. It seems like these are the guys not typically in the top 10 or so with the most positive talk:

Most Hyped Not in Top
Semi Ojeleye
Jordan Bell
Rodions Kurucs
Jonathan Jeanne
Frank Mason III
Jonah Bolden
Jawun Evans
Tony Bradley
OG Anunoby
Caleb Swanigan
Wesley Iwundu

There is usually some sort of big downside talked about with most other player I didn't mention.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#911 » by Syd-TK3 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 5:12 am

The guys from the ringer are extremely high on Iwundu compared to other mocks.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#912 » by doordoor123 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 6:00 am

Syd-TK3 wrote:The guys from the ringer are extremely high on Iwundu compared to other mocks.


Everyone is kind of high on him. Vecenie same thing. Guys from Draftexpress really like him too.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#913 » by doordoor123 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 6:02 am



I was watching an interview with this guy and he seemed really confident he's an NBA player so I look him up and he looks really good. His numbers don't match the ability, but he has a lot of advanced moves.

By the way, he has been apparently killing it in workouts. He's from Puerto Rico and he seems like a competitive guy.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#914 » by GimmeDat » Sat Jun 3, 2017 8:52 am

doordoor123 wrote:

I was watching an interview with this guy and he seemed really confident he's an NBA player so I look him up and he looks really good. His numbers don't match the ability, but he has a lot of advanced moves.

By the way, he has been apparently killing it in workouts. He's from Puerto Rico and he seems like a competitive guy.


That was definitely an interesting mix - I haven't seen him before but watching it I couldn't but presume that a poor shot selection (among other things) might be a contributor to him not being on draft boards. He's clearly a shot creator/maker, but the difficulty of some of those attempts were extremely tough and not the sort of shots you'd want to see anyone but your stars taking at the next level.

Again, pure speculation above (never seen him play), but what I will say is that he has that LaVine smoothness to his offensive game and ability to flow through in to his jumper. Seems like similar physically as well, though obviously not the insane athlete LaVine is.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#915 » by doordoor123 » Sat Jun 3, 2017 9:16 am

GimmeDat wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:

I was watching an interview with this guy and he seemed really confident he's an NBA player so I look him up and he looks really good. His numbers don't match the ability, but he has a lot of advanced moves.

By the way, he has been apparently killing it in workouts. He's from Puerto Rico and he seems like a competitive guy.


That was definitely an interesting mix - I haven't seen him before but watching it I couldn't but presume that a poor shot selection (among other things) might be a contributor to him not being on draft boards. He's clearly a shot creator/maker, but the difficulty of some of those attempts were extremely tough and not the sort of shots you'd want to see anyone but your stars taking at the next level.

Again, pure speculation above (never seen him play), but what I will say is that he has that LaVine smoothness to his offensive game and ability to flow through in to his jumper. Seems like similar physically as well, though obviously not the insane athlete LaVine is.


I think it's mostly because he's from a smaller school and he's already 23. His stats don't look that bad. In an interview he said he thinks he's a better shooter than he shot this year and he said he shot a lot of NBA 3 pointers in college. 38% on 7 attempts per game isn't bad. His free throws are close to 70%. Rebounds well, has 2 steals a game. He looks like he's long too, which is why he's probably so successful in the post.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#916 » by doordoor123 » Tue Jun 6, 2017 7:11 pm

Read on Twitter


I've always thought Blossomgame was underrated. The only thing for me is his age. I just think why would you draft Jordan Bell over Blossomgame? Both are the same age, Bell has more defensive ability and he's more athletic, but Blossomgame is a good shooter and he's also a good defender. I think both guys are good picks.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#917 » by doordoor123 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:52 pm

Tim Kempton looks pretty good. He can attack close outs, can dribble the ball a little, has Smart post moves, etc.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#918 » by BarbaGrizz » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:49 am

doordoor123 wrote:
WalterBenjamin wrote:Am i crazy to think that Bolden is a late lottery pick?


My lottery sleeper is George De Paula. Especially since everyone wants a PG with good size. And this draft is stacked at the top. Once the top freshmen point guards are gone, Id take him and teams that want a point guard and miss out on the top ones will take him.

He has great size, huge hands, great at changing speeds and hesitations, he's athletic, runs the floor well, passes well in transition, has proven the ability to shoot threes, and controls the floor like a point guard should, with great pace. If he was in the US people would compare him to Lonzo Ball, although he's older and Lonzo has better vision. He has a better jumpshot and is arguably a more consistent defender. He also just has a big body, perfect for bullying guards. I'm just a big fan of his even if he's older.


By no means he's a lottery pick, but any team that picks him in the late 2nd will be really happy. But...imagine if Spurs go bold and select him with the 29th...match his insane phisycal profile with Chip Engeland and you have Kawhi 2.0 as Tony Parker heir.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#919 » by doordoor123 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:51 am

BarbaGrizz wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
WalterBenjamin wrote:Am i crazy to think that Bolden is a late lottery pick?


My lottery sleeper is George De Paula. Especially since everyone wants a PG with good size. And this draft is stacked at the top. Once the top freshmen point guards are gone, Id take him and teams that want a point guard and miss out on the top ones will take him.

He has great size, huge hands, great at changing speeds and hesitations, he's athletic, runs the floor well, passes well in transition, has proven the ability to shoot threes, and controls the floor like a point guard should, with great pace. If he was in the US people would compare him to Lonzo Ball, although he's older and Lonzo has better vision. He has a better jumpshot and is arguably a more consistent defender. He also just has a big body, perfect for bullying guards. I'm just a big fan of his even if he's older.


By no means he's a lottery pick, but any team that picks him in the late 2nd will be really happy. But...imagine if Spurs go bold and select him with the 29th...match his insane phisycal profile with Chip Engeland and you have Kawhi 2.0 as Tony Parker heir.


I don't think he's a lottery, but definitely a pick in the 20s.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#920 » by BarbaGrizz » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:06 am

doordoor123 wrote:
BarbaGrizz wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
My lottery sleeper is George De Paula. Especially since everyone wants a PG with good size. And this draft is stacked at the top. Once the top freshmen point guards are gone, Id take him and teams that want a point guard and miss out on the top ones will take him.

He has great size, huge hands, great at changing speeds and hesitations, he's athletic, runs the floor well, passes well in transition, has proven the ability to shoot threes, and controls the floor like a point guard should, with great pace. If he was in the US people would compare him to Lonzo Ball, although he's older and Lonzo has better vision. He has a better jumpshot and is arguably a more consistent defender. He also just has a big body, perfect for bullying guards. I'm just a big fan of his even if he's older.


By no means he's a lottery pick, but any team that picks him in the late 2nd will be really happy. But...imagine if Spurs go bold and select him with the 29th...match his insane phisycal profile with Chip Engeland and you have Kawhi 2.0 as Tony Parker heir.


I don't think he's a lottery, but definitely a pick in the 20s.


Any thoughts on his teammates Lucas Dias and Wesley Sena?
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