Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

[brackdan70]

good idea in 2008, bad idea now.

[Fencer reregistered]

You are not factoring in age at all or really factoring in anything.

I'm factoring in age. Chris Paul will be more productive over the next four years than Gordan Hayward despite being older. I'm also not assuming we can just get Gordon Hayward, which is not a given.

I mean honestly would you rather have KG 32-36 or let's say Richard Jefferson 28-32.

How is that analogy relevant to anything? KG was a yet better player than Chris Paul, and Richard Jefferson wasn't even an All-Star.

[24istheLAW]

I'd be against this move.

But I don't think the idea of choosing Paul's age 32-36 seasons over Hayward's 28-32 seasons (or IT's 30-34 seasons) deserves nearly as much ridicule as it is getting right now. Paul is the best point guard of his generation and minimally reliant on athleticism relative to his peers. He shoots >41% from deep, assists nearly 4 baskets per TO, and his defensive impact is already sufficiently rooted in saavy and positioning that he does not stand to collapse at that end. What is the big deal?

The real cost of this kind of move to me would be that you're now on a clock to improve the team fast to help CP3 get his ring. It's not worth it right now.

[OldCeltics]

Lock this thread please. False rumor

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[SichtingLives]

WINGS AND FRONTCOURT FOCUS BRO

[Darthlukey]

Interesting. They could have POR pick for BKN, and do the deal in July. Is that above board or against the rules? Deals are agreed to before/after the draft all the time, but usually not with that long a wait.

I would imagine that they could have informal discussions and PORTLAND could draft on NETS behalf, but since it would be informal there is a chance NETS would pull out of the deal and leave PORTLAND with players they dont necessarily want

Well, right, but if Brooklyn did that, they'd be sabotaging their relationships around the league - with players, agents, and other front offices.

I did consider that too, they need all the friends they can get

[Asian Celtic]

Fultz has the potential to be a great player offensively yeah.. But i dont think that he will overcome his defensive flaws... Also he isn't Kyrie 2.0. unfortunately.. The ball skils of Kyrie are so good, i havent seen a player in years with these kind of sick handels actually. He showed this talent in college.. Fultz hasn't shown any Kyrie type impact imo.

Fultz will be a no.2 or no.3 option on a contendor not the the no.1 option. His college team didnt show any improvement at all with him leading the team, which makes me question if he's a PG or not? I think that he'll be a better SG in the league. The best PG out of this draft is Ball, he has shown true PG skills imo. The biggest sleeper in this draft, in the PG category, is Ntilikina.

I see what you're trying to say, but you absolutely cannot, with certainty, say that Fultz will not be a #1 on a title caliber team. you do not know that. Fultz is a very, very intriguing prospect. His size, natural ability and established skills for his age are off the charts.

I agree with that, that i cant say that with certainty.. it goes in the same way for everyone else who thinks that Fultz is already a superstar. I'm not buying the hype, i felt for it too many times.. I even believed that D'Angelo Russel would be a great scorer in the league and that the Lakers struck gold with drafting him.. Same story with Wiggins, Winslow, MKG etc... I'll just wait and see, i hope the kid proves me wrong. Because he's a great offensive talent imo. He can have a Carmelo type career if he reaches his ceiling.

Pre Knick Melo would be good.

[Slartibartfast]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

[robdog_5]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

Very good points. In my rush for excitement I say let's get Heyward. But I also realize at some point it's diminishing returns and we can't really build Fultz and Brown up to the level we need them if their blocked the whole way through their young developing cost controlled years

[Asian Celtic]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

Very good points. In my rush for excitement I say let's get Heyward. But I also realize at some point it's diminishing returns and we can't really build Fultz and Brown up to the level we need them if their blocked the whole way through their young developing cost controlled years

I wasn't really on the Hayward bandwagon. Much more on the Trade for PG/Butler ideas but was more on the youth movement. You know like have a player almost every team wants. So I wouldn't mind any FA missing as long as we can develop our young guns.

[Fencer reregistered]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

It isn't that stark. IT/Bradley/Fultz could become one of the great three-guard rotations in basketball history. Hayward would be a great upgrade from Crowder. Brown/Hayward could probably coexist at the 3-4 for enough minutes per game to give them each plenty of run.

[ermocrate]

I love Chris Paul, loved him since his GTech days but he can do the 6t to 8th man on a championship team right now or he has to play for cheap with other top NBA players. Sure Hayward is not gonna change the face of the franchise either but if you can grab another elite player with a trade you can then stay put. I think that a package of Bradley and the 2018 first that get us someone that will istantly put us on GSW level(because if you can acheive that plenty of jurneymen wanting to win a championship are gonna come here at basically no cost).

[Drax]

Since everyone is looking how to get the big players, i was thinking Ainge usually looks for reclamation projects and low cost opportunity players. If we assume Ainge spends the capspace (either max player or even maybe extension of IT), who are players we can nab with the BAE or MLE?

I've looked at big man who might thrive in a different situation or just want to change the narratives of the careers and could help our weak big men rotation. Here is a small list of players i think could crack our rotation and help out.

Thomas Robinson (UFA): Tremendous rebounder in limited minutes on bad teams, why can't he be our tremendous rebounder off the bench? Our best rebounder in the rotation this season had a 13.0 TRB%, 20.7 DRB% and was Kelly Olynyk. Robinson's worst rebounding percentages in his career for reference were in his rookie year 17.1 TRB%, 21.3% and his percentages have gotten better (career rebounding percentages 19.8 TRB%, 25.7 DRB%, last season 21.8 TRB%, 28.1 DRB%). Now Robinson won't be a starter might even struggle to crack the rotation, but for comparison he (560 minutes) played last season roughly the same amount of time as Zeller (525 minutes) but grabbed 99 more rebounds than Zeller in that time. I'd say that is worth a lot for our team and i belive with Brad Stevens as his coach he actually could be a third/fourth big (even a small ball center) for 20 minutes a game.

Joffrey Lauvergne (RFA): Different type of player compared to Robinson, but similar career path so far. Couldn't establish himself as key rotation player but has some skills, he's not a rebounder like Robinson but posses a wide range of offensive skills. He could be our stretch big replacement if we have to waive our big men to create capspace. While his 3P% doesn't look good on the surface, i belive it has to do with the systems he played in, OKC with two offensive juggernauts and a lot of ISO and CHI with poor ball movement and a clogged lane. With Stevens emphasis on ball movement and spread offense i think he could have a career year in Boston.

Donatas Motiejunas (UFA): Gambled on his talent in contract negotiations with HOU and got punished for it. To establish himself once again in a winning enviroment where he could get good minutes off the bench. He's the one on my list with the greatest potential to actually play himself into a bigger rotation role due to his talent and sample size (really good 2015 season). The system used by the Rockets is similar to what we try to do in Boston so he's used to the style of play. Is he worth a gamble or has he developed diva habbits?

Any thoughs, additions for buy low free agent candidates?

[TheMartian]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

That was a good take on what possibilities lie ahead for the Celtics. The direction where Anthony Davis is the ultimate target is looking like a long shot and a big risk to the team's future if AD ultimately decides to sign the Super Max with NO.

It's going to be pretty interesting and exciting what DA's next moves will be as it will give us a good idea on his direction moving forward. i.e., if he decides to trade IT then we know AD is not coming; if he still signs Hayward then AD might still be a possibility; on the other hand, if he trades for more future picks then we know he's going for the long rebuild.

[165bows]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

I guess I'm just not worried about their development in the same way.

Blake Griffin played zero minutes for a year after being drafted and then was dominant. Even more so for Joel Embiid. Marcus Smart on the other hand has seen solid minutes from the get go and still can't shoot.

For me, 15 mpg on a good team for guys 19-20 years old is perfectly fine. In a lot of ways, if they have a 19 year old phenom the last thing I want is them playing 2500 minutes. A body can only play so many NBA level minutes and I am happy not burning the candle early.

I'm a chiropractor and I can tell you there is a lot to be said for gradually increasing the volume of physical demands. People go too fast too soon all the time and set themselves back because they don't know what they can handle.

[ddb]

Fultz has the potential to be a great player offensively yeah.. But i dont think that he will overcome his defensive flaws... Also he isn't Kyrie 2.0. unfortunately.. The ball skils of Kyrie are so good, i havent seen a player in years with these kind of sick handels actually. He showed this talent in college.. Fultz hasn't shown any Kyrie type impact imo.

Fultz will be a no.2 or no.3 option on a contendor not the the no.1 option. His college team didnt show any improvement at all with him leading the team, which makes me question if he's a PG or not? I think that he'll be a better SG in the league. The best PG out of this draft is Ball, he has shown true PG skills imo. The biggest sleeper in this draft, in the PG category, is Ntilikina.

I see what you're trying to say, but you absolutely cannot, with certainty, say that Fultz will not be a #1 on a title caliber team. you do not know that. Fultz is a very, very intriguing prospect. His size, natural ability and established skills for his age are off the charts.

I agree with that, that i cant say that with certainty.. it goes in the same way for everyone else who thinks that Fultz is already a superstar. I'm not buying the hype, i felt for it too many times.. I even believed that D'Angelo Russel would be a great scorer in the league and that the Lakers struck gold with drafting him.. Same story with Wiggins, Winslow, MKG etc... I'll just wait and see, i hope the kid proves me wrong. Because he's a great offensive talent imo. He can have a Carmelo type career if he reaches his ceiling.

The draft is, and will forever be a risk. But at #1 You're making a well calculated safe risk. Fultz will be a very good player.
Here is your list of Point Guards taking #1 over the past 25 years.

Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Derek Rose
Allen Iverson

All 4 were, or remain studs. Iverson is a hall of famer. Wall & Irving will likely be hall of famers. Rose was a league MVP who was well on his way until injuries derailed his career.

Fultz is next in line for great guards being drafted #1.

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[ddb]

I love Chris Paul, loved him since his GTech days but he can do the 6t to 8th man on a championship team right now or he has to play for cheap with other top NBA players. Sure Hayward is not gonna change the face of the franchise either but if you can grab another elite player with a trade you can then stay put. I think that a package of Bradley and the 2018 first that get us someone that will istantly put us on GSW level(because if you can acheive that plenty of jurneymen wanting to win a championship are gonna come here at basically no cost).

You couldn't have loved him that much considering he went to Wake Forest

Sent from my SM-G930T using RealGM mobile app

[Slartibartfast]

Very good read by Ryan Bernardoni about obtaining elite players, becoming a true title contender, and long range planning for the Boston Celtics.

He does neglect to cover what I posted here earlier, that it is possible to get IT signed for a three year negotiate and extend max deal, then sign and trade for Hayward at a 3+1 - giving them the best of both worlds.

Ie, strengthening the team now while still giving them flexibility for three years from now when various items make a title slightly more obtainable.

At any rate, a worthwhile read.

http://www.celticshub.com/2017/06/02/take-celtics-win-title-todays-nba/

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

I guess I'm just not worried about their development in the same way.

Blake Griffin played zero minutes for a year after being drafted and then was dominant. Even more so for Joel Embiid. Marcus Smart on the other hand has seen solid minutes from the get go and still can't shoot.

For me, 15 mpg on a good team for guys 19-20 years old is perfectly fine. In a lot of ways, if they have a 19 year old phenom the last thing I want is them playing 2500 minutes. A body can only play so many NBA level minutes and I am happy not burning the candle early.

I'm a chiropractor and I can tell you there is a lot to be said for gradually increasing the volume of physical demands. People go too fast too soon all the time and set themselves back because they don't know what they can handle.

I'm not sure it would mess with their development so much (though I do think Jaylen needs mid-post reps to refine his scoring game) as it would undervalue them as players/assets.

Sort of like JO in Portland (barely playing didn't help him avoid injury later either). Even Harden in OKC.

It's less of an issue with Jaylen/Hayward because I don't really view Jaylen as an elite asset, though it still is irritating to sign a veteran semi-star to his position for 3+ years. More irritating with IT/Fultz.

[Tiny ball]

My biggest stumbling block here: IT and Hayward just happen to play the same positions as the only real reasons to be excited about our future.

Locking them both up is pretty much like relegating Fultz and Jaylen to bench duty and/or pushing them into lower usage 3/D roles like Jaylen, Smart and Rozier played this season.

And it becomes counter-intuitive to free up usage for them when the whole goal of adding Hayward is to strengthen the team, e.g. why give AB and/or Jae and/or Smart the boot to create big perimeter minutes for Fultz and Jaylen when AB/Smart/Jae are likely to be much better roleplayers playing off of IT/Hayward/Horford?

And how are Fultz and Jaylen going to build AD level trade value in the short-term when they are playing such peripheral roles?

I guess I'm just not worried about their development in the same way.

Blake Griffin played zero minutes for a year after being drafted and then was dominant. Even more so for Joel Embiid. Marcus Smart on the other hand has seen solid minutes from the get go and still can't shoot.

For me, 15 mpg on a good team for guys 19-20 years old is perfectly fine. In a lot of ways, if they have a 19 year old phenom the last thing I want is them playing 2500 minutes. A body can only play so many NBA level minutes and I am happy not burning the candle early.

I'm a chiropractor and I can tell you there is a lot to be said for gradually increasing the volume of physical demands. People go too fast too soon all the time and set themselves back because they don't know what they can handle.

I'm not sure it would mess with their development so much (though I do think Jaylen needs mid-post reps to refine his scoring game) as it would undervalue them as players/assets.

Sort of like JO in Portland (barely playing didn't help him avoid injury later either). Even Harden in OKC.

It's less of an issue with Jaylen/Hayward because I don't really view Jaylen as an elite asset, though it still is irritating to sign a veteran semi-star to his position for 3+ years. More irritating with IT/Fultz.

Jaylen can play the 2 3 and 4 should be able to get lots of minutes.

[GoCeltics123]

I'm probably late posting this, but...

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