2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

[Unbreakable99]

I wish this were true but the Lakers are BSing and not making up stuff.

Read on Twitter

[Unbreakable99]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[LloydFree]

Even though I'm not a big fan of this draft (would prefer to trade the pick + for Butler) I'm to the point where I would like to see BC. Trade down with Sac., for the 5th and just take Isaac.

I really think the only thing that's preventing Isaac from becoming the best player in this draft is his mental makeup, would prefer to be a beta rather than an alpha.

I'm not a big fan of this draft, because I think it's massively over-rated, but for that reason I'm the opposite. I'm against trading down because I think there are only a couple All-star potential players in this draft.

I normally agree with you but what potential all-star players do you see? I see guys who are going to have nice/good careers but Id be surprised if we see 2 all-stars out of this class

It's all good. The players are very polarizing this year. I can see why a lot of people have strong opinions one way or the other.

Regarding the two players I feel have the most All-star potential, as I've said before I think it's Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson. I don't expect everybody to agree with me because each of these guys are flawed in some way. Lonzo Ball has a very quirky game, that everybody is not going to like. I get that. Josh Jackson isn't a jumpshooter, and so his type has been undervalued in drafts as long as I can remember.

Both of these players are elite for their position in one or more categories and play with high IQs. With Lonzo Ball, on a 20-80 scale he's a 70 shooter and passer. His weakness is defense, but with PGs, as we've seen with Nash and Curry, you can be a Trainwreck on defense and still win MVPs, so I'm not worried about that. With Josh Jackson, he has elite body control and plus ball-handling and court vision for his position. His jumper is behind everything else. But this is what the Scottie Pippens, and Dwayne Wade's and Tracey McGrady's look like at age 19-20. For players that are elite at creating and getting to the basket at will, shooting is the last thing to come, because they haven't had to do it in the past to get any shot they want. You let Josh Jackson get past you, and he learns to shoot an NBA 3 Pointer at even just 33% and in 3 years, we'll be sitting here just like after the 97 and 98 drafts, wondering how we passed on McGrady and Pierce. I'm​ willing to take the bet that Jackson will be able to construct a workable jumper before other players improve their athletic explosion and/or ball-handling.

***On a side note, I think Dennis Smith and Jonathan Isaac also have All-star tools, but I think it's going to take the perfect situation and/or a lot of patience, for each of them to realize their ultimate potential.

[LongLiveHinkie]

The Lakers aren't making stuff up, Schultz is.

[snoopdogg88]

i could absolutely see the Lakers picking Josh Jackson at 2.

Lonzo Ball to Philly is destiny

[kriss73]

Read on Twitter

Well, 50% from downtown, but he was guarded by Harden

[JojoSlimbiid]

This went from a meh timeline to truly the darkest one. Yikes still I guess it's better than having no picks at this point. Hopefully the Celtics can save us with a patent Danny Ainge I'm the smartest guy in the room move.

[cksdayoff]

I wish this were true but the Lakers are BSing and not making up stuff.

Read on Twitter

lakers are smarter than i thought if this tweet is true

[LloydFree]

^ This. The worst thing BC could do is try to get cute here. I really like Isaac's potential, and DSJ could easily end up one of the best 3 players in this draft, but the player flaws and risk get greater as you drop down. Jackson and Ball are the surest things in this draft.

And yet they aren't. One doesn't even have the requisite skills for the position he's going to be drafted for, the other's main calling card (defense) will be badly exposed vs NBA level competition and both of them have dodgy shots to boot. The two safest picks in this draft are Fultz and Jayson Tatum, closely followed by Jon Isaac. Ball is much like Lauri Markannen in that they have one elite attribute, its a wonder to me why both aren't rated similarly in this draft; at least we know Markannen's attribute is going to transfer much more readily to the NBA, Ball's vision could just well be a product of his own very obvious limitations and he might not get to use it much anyway given he's likely a SG at the next level. In other words Markannen's shooting is a true outlier; Ball's passing will only just be good in the NBA (when you factor in the limited situations in which he'll get to use it and given he's a complete non-threat in other areas of his game). If Markannen is rated outside the top 10 I really can't see any reason why Ball shouldn't be as well.

I disagree if we're talking chance at being exceptional. Analyzing the top prospects, I look for which tool could carry them to being elite. Ball's bbiq, vision and passing are extraordinary. Kidd, Simmons, Bird like. Jackson's athleticism for a 6'8 wing is rare. If his shot continues to improve --like it did second half of the year-- %50 3pt and 63.75% FT-- he'll be a star. I've yet to see any experts recognize his improvement there. Instead, they fidget over his FT%, which is why we might just be lucky enough to get him at 3.

Isaac, you'll get no argument from me, I may take him at 4 despite our obvious need, but he is raw in every way. He likely needs to be a 4, can he put on mass and strength? Does he have the mentality to take over a game?

Fultz, I think he is good at everything, but I'm not certain he'll be a star. Which tool will make Fultz elite? Taytum, same thing. Both have a high floor for me, so in the sense that they're unlikely to bust they are safe picks to me.

Hey man. Are you inside my head? Pretty much sums up my exact feelings on Ball, Jackson, Isaac, Fultz and Tatum.

[the_process]

Let's just take Isaac at 3, then deal Covington and a 2nd or two for 10 and draft Mitchell. Let Simmons, Saric, and Issac split all the minutes at 3 & 4. Bayless, TLC, and Mitchell split all the time at the 1 & 2. Tight 8 man rotation. Isaac being a beta won't matter since both Embiid and Simmons will want theirs before him anyway. Just have him play killer D and stand in the corner and knock down some open 3's.

I respect your name, and with that horrible backcourt you must be committed to the process forever...

I think you're sleeping on Mitchell. Also it's within the realm of possibility that BC signs Holiday or Lowry or Hill and pushes Bayless to a backup role.

[smittybanton]

Read on Twitter

He's showing his JJ Redick-ness

I like Luke Kennard in the second round. Nik's replacement. Put the pressure on TLC.

[the_process]

Read on Twitter

He's showing his JJ Redick-ness

I like Luke Kennard in the second round. Nik's replacement. Put the pressure on TLC.

I think Kennard will be gone by the time 36 rolls around.

[cksdayoff]

how high do you guys think jordan bell goes.

[LloydFree]

how high do you guys think jordan bell goes.

I think Bell goes either #20 to Portland or #22 to the Nets. But I could envision a guy like Pat Riley grabbing him as high as #13, because he likes tough guys like that.

[smittybanton]

If Fox went #2:

Lonzo Ball is good for the Sixers, and the Sixers are good for Lonzo Ball. His fit with Ben is exquisite, so long as he accepts playing off the ball in half-court, because he is weaker and breaking down a defender one on one and finishing through NBA bodies in traffic, while at the same time he is good at reading defenses and finding open spots including alley oops--which account somewhat for his high % at the rim, and also because his shooting style makes him much, much better off the catch than off the dribble.

On the other hand, I really want to trade down for #5 and #10, but Fultz-Fox-Ball pushes one of Josh Jackson or Jayson Tatum down to #5, so the Kings can get their SF with #5 and either DSJ or Ntilikina or Mitchell at #10.

I say if Fox goes #2, we take Josh Jackson and hold him for ransom--at least one of PHX, SAC and ORL is going to bite--preferably SAC. Hope to get a bidding war. After Tatum and Jackson go, the next small forward is Anunoby coming off a torn achilles, and I have no love for Justin Jackson, who couldn't bang with college kids much less NBA players.

If none of them bite, oh well, we keep Jackson. However, for #5 and #10, I would definitely offer Sacramento (who are entirely bereft at the one and the three) the #3 and their choice of TJ McConnell, Justin Anderson, second round picks. I really think the Kings need to hit the reset button with a point guard like McConnell, alongside Buddy Hield, Josh Jackson/Jayson Tatum... They could use our second round picks to get a faster, more athletic one like Juwan Evans or Frank Mason.

I hate Malik Monk at #3, I'd like Malik Monk at #10, especially along with Lonzo Ball (or Isaac, Tatum) at #5.

While I'm already off the deep end, I want Minnesota's #7 for (#10 and Justin Anderson and OKC20(x20)). Tim Thibodeau is defensive minded, the Wolves were weak defensively, Shabazz Muhammad is a weak defender and a restricted free agent, Justin Anderson is supposed to be a good defender and is cheap.

It's already been reported taht the Timberwolves don't like their draft position and are shopping their pick for a veteran player. Wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves (as well as the Magic) were offering the #7 pick to the Sixers for Dario Saric. I'd be tempted, but I wouldn't pull the trigger. I think we can use other non-essential assets to flip the #3 into the #5 and #7 (Howie Roseman-style) and acquire two "sure-fire" starting caliber players to go along with Embiid, Saric, Simmons and Covington.

With that as our core, I don't really care what BC then does with our capspace.

Jahlil Okafor and Richaun Holmes are also non-essential assets we can use to get us the Chicago Bulls #14 pick, since they only have Robin Lopez and restricted free agent Cristiano Felicio. Felicio is going to get paid. Okafor and Holmes are cheap, and both are from the Chicagoland area.

With #10 and #14 and Anderson, McConnell, 2nds, cap space, and OKC20(x20) at our disposal, we can get #5 and #7 along with $50M in capspace.

Assuming Fultz-Fox-Jackson-Tatum, the Sixers take Lonzo Ball at #5, forcing the Magic (#6) to choose between a stretch four to replace the ill-fitting Aaron Gordon, or a point guard to replace the ill-fitting Elfrid Payton? While taking the hometown kid, Isaac, is probably pretty attractive, I think Elfrid Payton has shown he is not a difference maker. They also complained vociferously about not having scoring off the bench, relying on the likes of Jodie Meeks and such. I think the Magic go DSJ, leaving Jonathan Isaac to the Sixers.

Add Lonzo Ball and Jonathan Isaac to the Sixers and we are on our way.

Please, Bryan, please!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smittybanton]

He's showing his JJ Redick-ness

I like Luke Kennard in the second round. Nik's replacement. Put the pressure on TLC.

I think Kennard will be gone by the time 36 rolls around.

Maybe not, but I wouldn't predict a thing after #12.

[Mik317]

yeah I've done a lot of mocks since the lottery (mainly because I am bored as ****) and the guys I have at 13 on have been in the second round in some of my mocks.

This is definately a draft in which I could see either a lot of movement or guys reaching on potential. Guys like Jeanne could go stupid high as teams in the teens look for diamonds in hopes of changing their fates. This also means some nice talent could drop to that end of 1st area, I am all for moving back in there to either get a guard or shooter in that range....just using all of those seconds on a weak international class to stash or worse to line Josh Harris' pockets is lame. This draft may not have a lot of star power but there will be some nice role player talent one could be able to get and have for cheap...doubly important for us as we need to start thinking about extensions and rather than overpaying in FA for role players we can still get some rookie contract ones.

[the_process]

The Lakers aren't making stuff up, Schultz is.

I would bet that the Lakers leaked that in the hopes of getting SAC to take 2 and Clarkson for 5 and 10.

[HankTheTank]

And yet they aren't. One doesn't even have the requisite skills for the position he's going to be drafted for, the other's main calling card (defense) will be badly exposed vs NBA level competition and both of them have dodgy shots to boot. The two safest picks in this draft are Fultz and Jayson Tatum, closely followed by Jon Isaac. Ball is much like Lauri Markannen in that they have one elite attribute, its a wonder to me why both aren't rated similarly in this draft; at least we know Markannen's attribute is going to transfer much more readily to the NBA, Ball's vision could just well be a product of his own very obvious limitations and he might not get to use it much anyway given he's likely a SG at the next level. In other words Markannen's shooting is a true outlier; Ball's passing will only just be good in the NBA (when you factor in the limited situations in which he'll get to use it and given he's a complete non-threat in other areas of his game). If Markannen is rated outside the top 10 I really can't see any reason why Ball shouldn't be as well.

I disagree if we're talking chance at being exceptional. Analyzing the top prospects, I look for which tool could carry them to being elite. Ball's bbiq, vision and passing are extraordinary. Kidd, Simmons, Bird like. Jackson's athleticism for a 6'8 wing is rare. If his shot continues to improve --like it did second half of the year-- %50 3pt and 63.75% FT-- he'll be a star. I've yet to see any experts recognize his improvement there. Instead, they fidget over his FT%, which is why we might just be lucky enough to get him at 3.

Isaac, you'll get no argument from me, I may take him at 4 despite our obvious need, but he is raw in every way. He likely needs to be a 4, can he put on mass and strength? Does he have the mentality to take over a game?

Fultz, I think he is good at everything, but I'm not certain he'll be a star. Which tool will make Fultz elite? Taytum, same thing. Both have a high floor for me, so in the sense that they're unlikely to bust they are safe picks to me.

Hey man. Are you inside my head? Pretty much sums up my exact feelings on Ball, Jackson, Isaac, Fultz and Tatum.

I think the most controversial thing we agree on-- besides wanting JJ more than most-- is Fultz may be overrated. I would take him 3rd, and I'm not sure, or don't recall if you would... Besides him not flashing an elite level skill, what bothers me is he seems to be slow, or maybe deliberate is a better term. Doesn't have a quick first step. He's not the explosive athlete Jackson, DSJ, and Isaac are. He is a good shooter though, and if his ability to finish translates I could see him being a really good player because I think he'll make his living driving and being crafty with hesitation moves etc.. That and the fact that he is a great positional fit for the Sixers, I wouldn't cry if he slid to 3-- but I'd be pissed if BC traded up for him.

[Skates]

Some of the guys I see Jackson getting compared to had distinctly better physical profiles than Jackson does, especially to excel at the highest levels on the defensive end of things. Wingspan, smaller hands, those traits on Jackson don't compare to guys like Kawhi, Pippen, etc. He has narrow shoulders and while they aren't alligator arms, Jackson is not long for a top notch wing. I think he will be good, an undeniable floor at a pretty high level if he can control his life and temper off the court and channel it on it, but I don't see the superstar some do. Nice body control and top notch athleticism, not a natural shooter at all, but a decently practiced one in the catch and shoot. Lots to like, not as much to drool over as some see him. I even saw a comparison a while ago to a guy like Dr. J, again, very nice player, but just no, don't go there.

Isaac I like, but is he an alpha or even beta type motor? There is some question about his hands as well, not huge, not the best at catching the ball. More room for upside, but not the same floor as Jackson.

Monk I think is underrated on this board. He is an incredibly natural shooter, one whose wingspan only measured short at Kentucky, not at other stops and he looks more long armed than the Kentucky measurements state. his build can add some power and muscle, which would help quite a bit on his drives. People tend to ignore his athleticism which is pretty top shelf, and he can be a secondary ball handler and guard PG's, though I don't see him guarding the wing much. He makes sense in a trade down if they are committed to Simmons running at PG, not so much if they aren't.

Tatum is dissed on this Board for one reason, Okafor. Sure, there are some comparisons that can be made, but Tatum has the natural soft touch and shooting ability to more easily transition than Jackson or possibly even Isaac to a high volume three point shooter, though he needs to speed up his release, which is a lot easier than the full redo Jackson needs. If Simmons is going to play at PG or simply positionless basketball, Tatum makes sense as a combo forward. Not every athlete in the NBA is hyper athletic, otherwise why would we compliment guys like Jackson for that, and Tatum is hardly a floor bound sloth. Like Monk I would prefer him at 5-6, since I think other teams will pay to get up to three for Jackson or Ball.

Ball, geez, if he doesn't soon stand up and tell his old man to go bother the younger sons, I really can't see him and that circus working out. I have never cared about a player's family before, worried about some kids' general backgrounds and character, sure, but things like KJ's Mom, who cares, but Lavar Ball is a whole different level of distraction and possible dissension waiting to happen. He really does give me pause about drafting the kid, though I think in the end he goes to the Lakers anyway.

Fox would really have to convince me that he can shoot in more than a workout setting. Not saying the kid can't possibly do that, but he is a better fit for a lot of other teams. Like him, just not for us.

Rather have Donovan Mitchell over DSJ, and saw someone say Marbury would be disrespected for my not loving DSJ, to which I ask, what the hell did Starbury ever do but put up loser stats to deserve being respected?

I really want 5 and 10 way more than I like 3 so far.