Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

[ermocrate]

I love Chris Paul, loved him since his GTech days but he can do the 6t to 8th man on a championship team right now or he has to play for cheap with other top NBA players. Sure Hayward is not gonna change the face of the franchise either but if you can grab another elite player with a trade you can then stay put. I think that a package of Bradley and the 2018 first that get us someone that will istantly put us on GSW level(because if you can acheive that plenty of jurneymen wanting to win a championship are gonna come here at basically no cost).

You couldn't have loved him that much considering he went to Wake Forest

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Ahahah, you're right... Wondering way I made that mistake, maybe because of Marbury that was at GTech and had the 3 or because the jersey have a similar color.... whatever...ahahah

[ConstableGeneva]

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JAE CHANGED HIS PROFILE PIC!!

Which means nothing. I'm just being an idiot, per usual.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I see what you're trying to say, but you absolutely cannot, with certainty, say that Fultz will not be a #1 on a title caliber team. you do not know that. Fultz is a very, very intriguing prospect. His size, natural ability and established skills for his age are off the charts.

I agree with that, that i cant say that with certainty.. it goes in the same way for everyone else who thinks that Fultz is already a superstar. I'm not buying the hype, i felt for it too many times.. I even believed that D'Angelo Russel would be a great scorer in the league and that the Lakers struck gold with drafting him.. Same story with Wiggins, Winslow, MKG etc... I'll just wait and see, i hope the kid proves me wrong. Because he's a great offensive talent imo. He can have a Carmelo type career if he reaches his ceiling.

The draft is, and will forever be a risk. But at #1 You're making a well calculated safe risk. Fultz will be a very good player.
Here is your list of Point Guards taking #1 over the past 25 years.

Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Derek Rose
Allen Iverson

All 4 were, or remain studs. Iverson is a hall of famer. Wall & Irving will likely be hall of famers. Rose was a league MVP who was well on his way until injuries derailed his career.

Fultz is next in line for great guards being drafted #1.

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Yup. And Fultz is a better long-term bet than Rose and Iverson - he's not as reliant on twitch athleticism as Rose was, and he's not undersized. Pre-injury Penny Hardaway is a decent comparison, and Hardaway was too Rose-like in his athleticism, too.

Wall took a few years to live up to his billing, which is the only risk. But he's a top 5 point guard in the league now. Subtract out system and teammates and he's on par with Chris Paul, Westbrook, Curry, Kyrie.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Not me. Porzingis is a perfect fit. Fultz isn't, and I don't buy the hype.

That's defensible. I certainly do.

I also don't want Zinger closer to his max pay day, what I anticipate to be an injury prone body, nor a big as my best player.

this is also my biggest fear with Zinger. Guys at 7'3, historically don't last very long before their feet/back start breaking down. In theory he's a unicorn franchise caliber player.....so I like him. but are his current 18/7/2bpg numbers sorta his ceiling? Or can he get to the 23ppg 9rpg 3apg 2bpg ceiling where he's a franchise guy?

Posted a comment before, don't think it went through. The other possibility is that Porzingis is a franchise player, who had a sophomore slump because of injuries, a coaching carousel, triangle nonsense, frustration at how badly his organization is run and how little they're doing to develop him properly (he's asked around the league about how good organizations help their players grow, and he's heard things that let him know the Knicks aren't doing that), roster turnover, etc. So that the only reason he's even near the market, or seeming attainable, is because the Knicks are so dysfunctional.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Anthony Davis hasn't singlehandedly saved the Pelicans like people expected, he had a disappointing sophomore year, but he's still considered a great talent. Porzingis is a little bit thwarted by circumstance and a little bit underachieving, with legit questions about his upside as a rebounder, versatile scorer, and long-term health.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Anyway if CP somehow did go to the Clippers, I think we'd be a frontrunner for Blake. We could probably get him in a sign-and-trade, if we do one for Hayward or clear cap to max him, but also give Doc something like Crowder, Rozier or Smart, their first-rounder back. If Paul leaves, and Blake is about to, they have no leverage. Griffin could plausibly choose Miami or OKC or someone else, but we'd have a clear shot at him.

[Andrew McCeltic]

We can also pitch free agents on what our follow-up moves can be if they sign on, and how we have a win-now team with 3 elite prospects/trade chips in the pipeline.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd also say we might be able to keep our pick and sell Phil on something like the BKN 18 and other picks/assets for Porzingis. The PR/fan value of New York having Brooklyn's pick would be big.

[Darthlukey]

I'd also say we might be able to keep our pick and sell Phil on something like the BKN 18 and other picks/assets for Porzingis. The PR/fan value of New York having Brooklyn's pick would be big.

If nyc did this and managed to salary dump Melo for a 1st (any first, not even lottery) then they could tank the hell out of next season with 2 picks and actually look ok with only the Noah contract holding them back

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd also say we might be able to keep our pick and sell Phil on something like the BKN 18 and other picks/assets for Porzingis. The PR/fan value of New York having Brooklyn's pick would be big.

If nyc did this and managed to salary dump Melo for a 1st (any first, not even lottery) then they could tank the hell out of next season with 2 picks and actually look ok with only the Noah contract holding them back

So in dream scenario we draft Fultz, move a couple of pieces with the BKN 18 for Porzingis, keep Olynyk or whoever on books, max Blake, S&T for Hayward with Olynyk+, and have:

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Jaylen
Hayward/Nader
Griffin/Horford
Porzingis/Zizic

Does that team beat Golden State or Cleveland? Does it beat them in 3 years, when the young guys are older and the older guys are older?

[Andrew McCeltic]

The passing, scoring and spacing would be incredible, maybe better than Golden State, even with no one at the level of Curry or Durant today. Rebounding is better than it is now, good to great if Blake's stats are deflated by playing with Deandre, and if Porzingis can improve. Defense and rim protection, good.

[Darthlukey]

The passing, scoring and spacing would be incredible, maybe better than Golden State, even with no one at the level of Curry or Durant today. Rebounding is better than it is now, good to great if Blake's stats are deflated by playing with Deandre, and if Porzingis can improve. Defense and rim protection, good.

Tough move putting AL on the bench. I get it, but it sucks

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[Andrew McCeltic]

The passing, scoring and spacing would be incredible, maybe better than Golden State, even with no one at the level of Curry or Durant today. Rebounding is better than it is now, good to great if Blake's stats are deflated by playing with Deandre, and if Porzingis can improve. Defense and rim protection, good.

Tough move putting AL on the bench. I get it, but it sucks

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Doesn't have to happen, you could start him with Blake and bring KP off the bench. Far-fetched. But do you think they beat Golden State?

[Darthlukey]

The passing, scoring and spacing would be incredible, maybe better than Golden State, even with no one at the level of Curry or Durant today. Rebounding is better than it is now, good to great if Blake's stats are deflated by playing with Deandre, and if Porzingis can improve. Defense and rim protection, good.

Tough move putting AL on the bench. I get it, but it sucks

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Doesn't have to happen, you could start him with Blake and bring KP off the bench. Far-fetched. But do you think they beat Golden State?

That team has versatility and SIZE. If they can punish them enough that green must play the 4 and they need to keep a stiff at the 5, celts have a big chance!

[Andrew McCeltic]

Tough move putting AL on the bench. I get it, but it sucks

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Doesn't have to happen, you could start him with Blake and bring KP off the bench. Far-fetched. But do you think they beat Golden State?

That team has versatility and SIZE. If they can punish them enough that green must play the 4 and they need to keep a stiff at the 5, celts have a big chance!

I think it's skilled size, too, so we would beat them up offensively at the rim, pick and rolls, interior passing for easy 2's. And we'd still have great spacing - Blake's the only guy who can't step back reliably beyond midrange, yet.

I'd worry about our defense - Blake's ok, but not great. And having to jettison Crowder, Smart, Rozier to make it work takes away a lot of the perimeter intensity and versatility that has made us so competitive against Golden State. Hayward is ok, but going from Rozier, Smart, Crowder, Bradley, Jaylen to just Bradley/Jaylen is a step down.

I'd also say we might do better getting one big acquisition while holding onto as much trade flexibility as we can - say, do a Zeller, Olynyk, Crowder sign and trade for Blake - keep holds for everyone else, and see how the market unfolds. Maybe then you can get Butler in an Amir/Smart/1sts sign and trade, deal IT/Yabu for Porzingis, keep the BKN 18.

The ideal is to maximize the value of every single one of our assets - our players, picks, cap space, and cap holds/sign and trade scenarios.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Doesn't look like we have an overall "offseason" thread, so also worth remembering Abdel Nader may be really helpful. He was the D-League rookie of the year - previous three winners Quinn Cook, Tim Frazier, and Robert Covington - and it's not a sign he's going to be a star. James Young did well in the D-League. But Nader has a good chance to be a bigger, longer, slower version of what Evan Turner was for us. 3&D and some playmaking.

[Darthlukey]

Doesn't have to happen, you could start him with Blake and bring KP off the bench. Far-fetched. But do you think they beat Golden State?

That team has versatility and SIZE. If they can punish them enough that green must play the 4 and they need to keep a stiff at the 5, celts have a big chance!

I think it's skilled size, too, so we would beat them up offensively at the rim, pick and rolls, interior passing for easy 2's. And we'd still have great spacing - Blake's the only guy who can't step back reliably beyond midrange, yet.

I'd worry about our defense - Blake's ok, but not great. And having to jettison Crowder, Smart, Rozier to make it work takes away a lot of the perimeter intensity and versatility that has made us so competitive against Golden State. Hayward is ok, but going from Rozier, Smart, Crowder, Bradley, Jaylen to just Bradley/Jaylen is a step down.

I'd also say we might do better getting one big acquisition while holding onto as much trade flexibility as we can - say, do a Zeller, Olynyk, Crowder sign and trade for Blake - keep holds for everyone else, and see how the market unfolds. Maybe then you can get Butler in an Amir/Smart/1sts sign and trade, deal IT/Yabu for Porzingis, keep the BKN 18.

The ideal is to maximize the value of every single one of our assets - our players, picks, cap space, and cap holds/sign and trade scenarios.

That team attacks the weakness of gsw. Similar I suppose to okc last year who almost beat gsw with length and size (the 2 bigs approach). Gsw caught fire and won with 3s.
I think the cavs went about trying to get into an arms race with gsw the wrong way. They have shooters and scorers, which ultimately plays into gsw hands cos thats how they play and you can't match them. You go skilled and big and at least take them out of their game

[AgentGreen]

That's defensible. I certainly do.

I also don't want Zinger closer to his max pay day, what I anticipate to be an injury prone body, nor a big as my best player.

this is also my biggest fear with Zinger. Guys at 7'3, historically don't last very long before their feet/back start breaking down. In theory he's a unicorn franchise caliber player.....so I like him. but are his current 18/7/2bpg numbers sorta his ceiling? Or can he get to the 23ppg 9rpg 3apg 2bpg ceiling where he's a franchise guy?

Posted a comment before, don't think it went through. The other possibility is that Porzingis is a franchise player, who had a sophomore slump because of injuries, a coaching carousel, triangle nonsense, frustration at how badly his organization is run and how little they're doing to develop him properly (he's asked around the league about how good organizations help their players grow, and he's heard things that let him know the Knicks aren't doing that), roster turnover, etc. So that the only reason he's even near the market, or seeming attainable, is because the Knicks are so dysfunctional.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Anthony Davis hasn't singlehandedly saved the Pelicans like people expected, he had a disappointing sophomore year, but he's still considered a great talent. Porzingis is a little bit thwarted by circumstance and a little bit underachieving, with legit questions about his upside as a rebounder, versatile scorer, and long-term health.

Porzingis's ceiling quite high if he stays healthy and gets the right coaching(like Brad), he has shown some glimpses this season. Fultz has yet to prove us if he can be a star in this league, not expecting him to be a superstar.

But if a unicorn like Porzingis pans out?? Guys with his length and skills are hard to stop then.

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[Roddy]

Draft this guy. He has been really good this season in Spain.

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[Andrew McCeltic]

this is also my biggest fear with Zinger. Guys at 7'3, historically don't last very long before their feet/back start breaking down. In theory he's a unicorn franchise caliber player.....so I like him. but are his current 18/7/2bpg numbers sorta his ceiling? Or can he get to the 23ppg 9rpg 3apg 2bpg ceiling where he's a franchise guy?

Posted a comment before, don't think it went through. The other possibility is that Porzingis is a franchise player, who had a sophomore slump because of injuries, a coaching carousel, triangle nonsense, frustration at how badly his organization is run and how little they're doing to develop him properly (he's asked around the league about how good organizations help their players grow, and he's heard things that let him know the Knicks aren't doing that), roster turnover, etc. So that the only reason he's even near the market, or seeming attainable, is because the Knicks are so dysfunctional.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Anthony Davis hasn't singlehandedly saved the Pelicans like people expected, he had a disappointing sophomore year, but he's still considered a great talent. Porzingis is a little bit thwarted by circumstance and a little bit underachieving, with legit questions about his upside as a rebounder, versatile scorer, and long-term health.

Porzingis's ceiling quite high if he stays healthy and gets the right coaching(like Brad), he has shown some glimpses this season. Fultz has yet to prove us if he can be a star in this league, not expecting him to be a superstar.

But if a unicorn like Porzingis pans out?? Guys with his length and skills are hard to stop then.

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I'd probably trade the BKN 18 for Porzingis, if it came to that price. It's a risk, because that draft is looking to be good, too. It's early - Okafor was the 1 at this point before his draft, Aaron Gordon was once top 3. But Porter Jr., Bamba, Ayton, Doncic all look hugely promising, Robert Williams if he improves could be a top pick, and there are a lot of interesting big men. That said, Brooklyn is going to have 40 million in cap space, with Brook Lopez. They could find a taker for him someday, or a deal that gives them flexibility. They can get another first-rounder by taking a player from Portland and still have near-max space to pay someone. Hell, they could even get Melo if he wants to stay in the area, or if they agree to find a trade for him ASAP. So there's good reason to think the pick could be top 7 or top 8, but top 4 isn't guaranteed. If our training staff, doctors, physiology, kinesiology folks, consultants have a good read on the kind of injuries Porzingis had this season, and is likely to have, he would be such a great fit, I think it might be worth bird-in-the-hand-ing him.

You add Fultz, or whoever you get for the pick - 2/Randle, 3/Saric, SAC 19 traded to them for the 10 - you get Griffin or Hayward, maybe use remaining salary chips to get Butler or Paul George. And then you can deal away BKN 18 for Porzingis as the final piece, the unicorn 4/5, to have Stevens, Horford helping him grow? I think that's a better bet than hoping we pick top 3 again and get or trade for someone as good as KP.

[ajones9219]

SInce Danny/Brad seem to love going small ball (read: bad rebounding), how about this scenario:
AB/Crowder/BRK 18 for Paul George
Sign D. Gallinari
Draft Fultz

IT
Fultz
George
Gallinari
Horford

That would be an insane amount of shooting at the very least