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What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed?

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Doc Apparently Taking Communications Studies at Trump University 

Post#261 » by Ranma » Sun Jun 4, 2017 9:30 pm

I don't know why I continue to care and be upset with Doc's continued stream of BS, but it still bothers me that the dude is steadfast with the Trump-like excuses and double-talk to justify his position as president of basketball operations despite his lack of success and progress in that role.

Does he really expect us to believe that he left the Celtics not to avoid rebuilding but to build something here when he's done the exact opposite? Neil Olshey handed him a stacked roster and assets for him to only squander, which has now left us in a stagnant situation deteriorating into something worse. Now he's using Danny Ainge to justify his conduct by saying he takes after Ainge in being aggressive and doing what's right even if it is unpopular. Doc was given the benefit of the doubt even by me from the outset despite my skepticism and his moves were unpopular because they've all been practically wrong.

He then praises Ainge for quickly cutting his losses using releasing failed first-round picks in a not-so-subtle fashion to excuse his own horrendous draft failures and yet that somehow doesn't apply to keeping Paul Pierce's corpse on the roster or giving it playing time over even giving young players a chance to contribute or develop. And when exactly has Doc admitted to specific mistakes? He could start by owning up to the fact that he's a moronic ninconmpoop who's sorely unqualified to be a personnel executive and step down as president of basketball operations, but we all know he won't. Owner Steve Ballmer will have to pry that job title from his cold, dead hands, which is why the Jerry & Ryan West talk is encouraging for a group desperately in need of it. If he really wanted to do what was right for the organization, Doc would have done this long before yesterday.



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Steve Bulpett, Boston Herald (6/4/17)
Doc Rivers told us recently the real reason he left the Celtics is because he wanted to have the chance to build his own team. He said it wasn’t because he didn’t want to rebuild with the Celts, who’ve been on an accelerated reconstruction pace since 2013.

And while some may raise an eyebrow at that explanation, what we found interesting, too, is Rivers’ hope that he’s taken some of the Celtics west to the Clippers with him.
...

“You look at the Celtics, they’ve drafted well,” said Rivers, who carries the title of president of basketball operations in addition to coaching the Clippers. “But one thing I’ve always loved about Danny over all, and I think it’s the thing that I miss the most, is that he’s never been afraid to cut his losses, too. That’s really important. You can look at all the great draft picks, but I look at some of the bad ones where he didn’t hesitate. I’m talking about first-round picks that he released. Most teams wouldn’t do that. Most teams would hold on to them anyway.”
...

“That’s exactly right,” Rivers said. “Danny does what he thinks is right, and that’s it. If he and I have anything alike, it’s that. I could have stayed there and been safe. I could have stayed, but I’m thinking, ‘I want to do something more. I want to do it again. I want to do something special.’
...

“Oh, absolutely,” he said. “You know, I’ve made some good moves here and I’ve made some bonehead ones here. I’ve been aggressive. Unfortunately we’ve never had any cap space since I’ve been here, so you’ve been kind of handcuffed in what you do. But I have no problem pulling the trigger and no problem admitting it if a move was good or bad. You just do it, and you do it for what’s right for the team.

Bulpett: Doc Rivers Wanted to Be His Own Bulider, But Happily Uses Some of Danny Ainge’s Tools
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#262 » by wco81 » Sun Jun 4, 2017 9:40 pm

Hmm, will the Celtics extend players like Bradley or Smart or Olynyk? Or will they "cut their losses" as Doc suggests?

They're okay players but some will command a lot of money for a role player (Bradley) while others are high lotto picks who need to show improvement (Smart who was picked #6 in his draft class and has shot poorly in his career).
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#263 » by TucsonClip » Sun Jun 4, 2017 10:34 pm

Hes talking around his own ideologies, which everyone knows he adheres to, and passing them off as if they are not true.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#264 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Jun 4, 2017 11:25 pm

Ranma wrote:I don't know why I continue to care and be upset with Doc's continued stream of BS, but it still bothers me that the dude is steadfast with the Trump-like excuses and double-talk to justify his position as president of basketball operations despite his lack of success and progress in that role.

Does he really expect us to believe that he left the Celtics not to avoid rebuilding but to build something here when he's done the exact opposite? Neil Olshey handed him a stacked roster and assets for him to only squander, which has now left us in a stagnant situation deteriorating into something worse. Now he's using Danny Ainge to justify his conduct by saying he takes after Ainge in being aggressive and doing what's right even if it is unpopular. Doc was given the benefit of the doubt even by me from the outset despite my skepticism and his moves were unpopular because they've all been practically wrong.

He then praises Ainge for quickly cutting his losses using releasing failed first-round picks in a not-so-subtle fashion to excuse his own horrendous draft failures and yet that somehow doesn't apply to keeping Paul Pierce's corpse on the roster or giving it playing time over even giving young players a chance to contribute or develop. And when exactly has Doc admitted to specific mistakes? He could start by owning up to the fact that he's a moronic ninconmpoop who's sorely unqualified to be a personnel executive and step down as president of basketball operations, but we all know he won't. Owner Steve Ballmer will have to pry that job title from his cold, dead hands, which is why the Jerry & Ryan West talk is encouraging for a group desperately in need of it. If he really wanted to do what was right for the organization, Doc would have done this long before yesterday.



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Steve Bulpett, Boston Herald (6/4/17)
Doc Rivers told us recently the real reason he left the Celtics is because he wanted to have the chance to build his own team. He said it wasn’t because he didn’t want to rebuild with the Celts, who’ve been on an accelerated reconstruction pace since 2013.

And while some may raise an eyebrow at that explanation, what we found interesting, too, is Rivers’ hope that he’s taken some of the Celtics west to the Clippers with him.
...

“You look at the Celtics, they’ve drafted well,” said Rivers, who carries the title of president of basketball operations in addition to coaching the Clippers. “But one thing I’ve always loved about Danny over all, and I think it’s the thing that I miss the most, is that he’s never been afraid to cut his losses, too. That’s really important. You can look at all the great draft picks, but I look at some of the bad ones where he didn’t hesitate. I’m talking about first-round picks that he released. Most teams wouldn’t do that. Most teams would hold on to them anyway.”
...

“That’s exactly right,” Rivers said. “Danny does what he thinks is right, and that’s it. If he and I have anything alike, it’s that. I could have stayed there and been safe. I could have stayed, but I’m thinking, ‘I want to do something more. I want to do it again. I want to do something special.’
...

“Oh, absolutely,” he said. “You know, I’ve made some good moves here and I’ve made some bonehead ones here. I’ve been aggressive. Unfortunately we’ve never had any cap space since I’ve been here, so you’ve been kind of handcuffed in what you do. But I have no problem pulling the trigger and no problem admitting it if a move was good or bad. You just do it, and you do it for what’s right for the team.

Bulpett: Doc Rivers Wanted to Be His Own Bulider, But Happily Uses Some of Danny Ainge’s Tools

Holy hell that made me want to put my fist through a wall.

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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#265 » by og15 » Wed Jun 7, 2017 4:40 pm

Danny could release draft picks because he had so many and they didn't even have room in the team. Doc needs to stop trying to justify how bad he is with terrible comparisons and examples.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#266 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Jun 9, 2017 5:00 pm

Why hasn't Ballmer fired Doc? Why would he give this man another year to do more damage to this organization?

I pray to the heavens that he's just getting his ducks in a row, collecting information, and getting prepped to make a fantastic hire but the longer this goes on, the more I have to look at Ballmer and wonder "what gives?"

Anywho...that topic may have been a few pages ago but it srsly has bothered me that Doc is still here.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#267 » by wco81 » Fri Jun 9, 2017 5:42 pm

Well the season isn't officially over. Maybe after the draft or that awards show, the offseason begins officially.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#268 » by og15 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:40 am

Why would they wait to fire him if they wanted to do so? If you want to fire him, you do it 2, 3 weeks ago so that this whole time you can be looking for the replacement so that the guy can do his homework and see if he can do something in the draft related to trade and also start preparing for free agency.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#269 » by Fencer reregistered » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:50 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Why hasn't Ballmer fired Doc?


Ballmer was a pretty bad CEO at Microsoft. Certainly he was bad if you subtract some skills that don't have much relevance to NBA team leadership discussions (for example, he was a good enough at understanding technology and listening to people about it to be an outstanding salesman).
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#270 » by madmaxmedia » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:49 pm

Ballmer was no Steve Jobs, that's for sure. I'm sure Ballmer was a great sales/corporate leader within Microsoft, but to the point of being myopic about his company's weaknesses. I'm sure he played a large role in Microsoft's ascendance in the tech world, but he also played a role in their missing out on a lot of new innovations the last 15 years or so. And then tried to buy his way back in with Nokia, which was too little too late (despite spending $7.2B to buy them.)

His classic interview regarding the iPhone intro is a perfect example. Yes it could have been his corporate PR-spin, but it sounds like to me he actually believed his words. So I doubt whether he really has the vision to turn this current roster into a realistic championship contender, fortunately he probably realizes this so went after Jerry West (and pretty strongly I bet.) In which case I give him kudos for having some foresight this time around.

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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#271 » by wco81 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:00 pm

He knew Bill Gates at Harvard before Gates dropped out to found Microsoft.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#272 » by wco81 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:14 am

Well Doc may get the team into the playoffs after all, despite all the injuries in the first half.

He may be sticking around longer for the haters to kick around.
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What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#273 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:07 pm

wco81 wrote:Well Doc may get the team into the playoffs after all, despite all the injuries in the first half.

He may be sticking around longer for the haters to kick around.

Clipper haters held rational positions IMO:
- He sucks as GM.
- His GMing is ruining his coaching.
- The org needs to move on.

I believed all 3 but I did continuously say, if he’s not GM, I don’t mind him staying in as coach (amongst a number of ideas we were duscussing about new Clipper GMs and coaches).

Very few Clipper fans here who hated him shared the GB’s view that he’s overrated as coach because hurr durr carried by Big 3 and Rick Carlisle did it with ONE superstar.

I have no qualms with any Clipper hater position held before this season. They were all rational. If today, they’re still saying he can’t coach, I won’t stand by that.


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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#274 » by wco81 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:32 pm

Well he's riding Lou and he's given playing time to Evans, that SF and now Wallace, got productive minutes from these role players.

Who acquired these players?
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Do We Have Another Doc Cultist Among Our Midst? 

Post#275 » by Ranma » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:03 pm

wco81 wrote:Well he's riding Lou and he's given playing time to Evans, that SF and now Wallace, got productive minutes from these role players.

Who acquired these players?


These players were not coincidentally acquired once he was removed as President of Basketball Operations. Let's not conveniently forget all the failed draft picks and free-agent signings under his watch or the inexplicable reason he gave Jamal Crawford free rein season after season at the expense of other players and the team.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#276 » by esqtvd » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:43 pm

wco81 wrote:Well Doc may get the team into the playoffs after all, despite all the injuries in the first half.

He may be sticking around longer for the haters to kick around.


LOL. The emerging point is that CP3's salary and questionable coachability tied Doc's hands both as GM and coach. This was Chris's team. Remember, he even got VDN fired, and on the court he controlled the ball, not Doc.

Mostly we're a competitive team because of the players we got back for CP--who I doubt we had much say over one way or the other; HOU offered us only their spare parts--and not in the least that Lou is playing career ball. If he were playing as bad as he did for HOU last year, this is a completely different discussion.

I don't know if our 2nd-rounders or G-Leaguers are actually going to turn into top-8 rotation players, but I'm fine with Doc stepping/being pushed aside as PoBO, now that we're not a win-now team whose priority was landing veteran free agents. But there's no reason to spit on his grave--he left the organization better than he found it.

You have to love the Clippers' one and only HOFer, but I do think Doc has a new lease on life with CP gone. He's just kind of a drag both on and off the court, y'know? People are having fun again.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#277 » by wassuphomeboy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:02 am

Just wanted to share a little known fact about Doc: he is actually a former Coach of the Year winner, in 2000.

That summer, his Magic had also lost a superstar PG(Penny Hardaway) in free agency and was projected to finish near the bottom of the conference, but overachieved to a .500 season, with a similar makeup to this team full of young talent.

Say what you will about some of his coaching decisions, but he deserves due credit for the development of DJ. People act like Austin is the only one, but who's to say he isn't lending the same guiding hand for CJ, Tyrone, and even maybe Lou this season(something I don't think he's given due credit for), and what's wrong with spreading it to everyone on the team?

So, with the team currently constructed as is, he just might be the right guy to lead the team forward, for now.

Don't get me wrong, his tenure as GM as well as letting the CP3 situation fester was and still is a huge black mark, but since CP3 is gone and not coming back and Doc is no longer GM, it might be best to just look forward to the future, instead of letting yesterday's rain soak tomorrow's laundry, as this franchise is too wont to do at times.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#278 » by esqtvd » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 am

wassuphomeboy wrote:Just wanted to share a little known fact about Doc: he is actually a former Coach of the Year winner, in 2000.

That summer, his Magic had also lost a superstar PG(Penny Hardaway) in free agency and was projected to finish near the bottom of the conference, but overachieved to a .500 season, with a similar makeup to this team full of young talent.

Say what you will about some of his coaching decisions, but he deserves due credit for the development of DJ. People act like Austin is the only one, but who's to say he isn't lending the same guiding hand for CJ, Tyrone, and even maybe Lou this season(something I don't think he's given due credit for), and what's wrong with spreading it to everyone on the team?

So, with the team currently constructed as is, he just might be the right guy to lead the team forward, for now.

Don't get me wrong, his tenure as GM as well as letting the CP3 situation fester was and still is a huge black mark, but since CP3 is gone and not coming back and Doc is no longer GM, it might be best to just look forward to the future, instead of letting yesterday's rain soak tomorrow's laundry, as this franchise is too wont to do at times.



"Letting yesterday's rain soak tomorrow's laundry." Props.

But we Clipper long-timers have no glorious past to dwell on, LOL!! It's only the Rivers Derangement Syndrome [which invariably includes both Papa Doc and Baby Doc] folks 'round here who have nothing else to talk about now with the Clips somehow over .500. And good point about Doc being in the same scenario as when he won COY.

It's really impossible to rate Doc's reign with the Clippers without figuring CP3 into the equation. it was Chris's team. And I don't think the situation "festered." CP seriously considered staying up until the last minute. Had Blake been at peak and we made a deep playoff run, I'm convinced Chris would have stayed, and I'm also confident Ballmer would have vetoed dumping Chris before the playoffs anyway.

Now we'll see what they're all made of, without each other.

Anybody else hankerin' bad for an LAC vs HOU first-round matchup? If the season ended today, it would be 2 vs 7. If Gallo gets up to speed and Pat Bev somehow makes it back, it would be one for the ages!!
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#279 » by JGOJustin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:23 pm

I get why people say that Doc was a bad GM, (Even though I think mediocre is more appropriate)

But he always was a good coach to me in LA. From X's and O's, to getting the most out of his players, he had some of the worst cards a coach could have. If we're measuring coaching success by wins and losses, he has years where he won 57 games w/CP and JJ missing big time, winning 53 games where Blake missed 42, and has coached amidst multiple playoff runs where his star players routinely came up limp and hurt.
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Re: What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed? 

Post#280 » by wco81 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:03 am

Is he an X's and O's guy or his assistants are the coordinators?

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