2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

KrazySixersD · Post #421 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:04 am

I'm losing my mind seeing how many of you actually want lonzo ball on this team like he is honestly going to make any kind of difference in the nba LMAO... michael carter williams 2.0.... I said plz for god sake do not draft MCW, when we did, most of you were ecstatic... he went on to be a scrub, just like ball will...

Mik317 · Post #422 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:07 am

no one was ecstatic about MCW, most just tried to talk themselves into him..

regardless Ball, wonky form and all, is a much better shooter than MCW

KrazySixersD · Post #423 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:16 am

and an awful defender, average at best athleticism, a shot that is NO guarantee to transfer over, and a guy who doesnt/cant play in the PnR which is what 80% of the NBA is..

yes tell me more about why we should draft ball at 3

Mik317 · Post #424 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:20 am

I;m not the biggest Ball fan but this idea that he is a bad athlete needs to stop. He's actually quite quick and is capable of big dunks. He shot it from stupid deep so despite the form, I think at the very least he's gonna be able to hit open jumpers.

The concern is his creation ability and what happens when contested (which is a bad shot anyway) so he has enough questions about him that you don't need to create others.

SelfishPlayer · Post #425 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:22 am

When has college pick & roll ever mattered for anyone, ever?

Mik317 · Post #426 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:35 am

How much of it was he can't or he didn't is the real question. Most of the time I saw ULCA, Ball was off ball with Alford chucking or Holiday running things. Could have been a system thing...and even if it is a he can't do it thing...Simmons will probably run most of our PnR's no?

again not the biggest Lonzo Ball fan as I like other prospects better than him and I think we still need a guy to get his (whether or not the guys I like more than him can do that is a big question tho lol) but I think some are a bit too hard on him at times.

cksdayoff · Post #427 » by **cksdayoff** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:42 am

i pray to god lakers take ball. i'd much rather have josh jackson

KrazySixersD · Post #428 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 12:45 am

glad im not the only one

LongLiveHinkie · Post #429 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:08 am

Part of me wants to see out of curiosity who we'd take if Ball and Jackson were both on the board.

Mik317 · Post #430 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:14 am

ok **** it. I'm bored as **** and have been sneak dissing others takes on prospects so its time I put my bad takes out there for time to capsule.

Fultz- Didn't watch him much; didn't want to get attached and require us to get the first pick; still not looking too deep into him. Based off of surface level knowledge, I think he is a fantastic fit for us. Let it be known I am too stupid and lazy to truly get analytics so any flaws he has on that end I don't get or see. If we could pick a guard (not neccearily the best player) from this draft as a fit and upside guy, he'd be it.

Jackson - Time for another revelation; Tracy McGrady is one of my favorite players of all time. The 6'6-6'8 scorer is something I have wanted to watch up close for a long time. Hence my lust over Wiggins, Mario, Winslow...and now Jackson. My track record is flawless in being **** as you can see (i still like Wiggins tho). Jackson is a guy I found myself overlooking all of his flaws and that simply isn't fair. His jumper is broken, late season surge be damned, and his history shows this. He isn't that long and thus if he can't play the 2 (either defensively or getting that shot in order...but mainly both), then his defensive profile is a lot less impressive. And yeah all of this is something he can work on and fix...but idk. I also don't think that here is the best spot for him to do so. be it the staff or forcing others and him into a box they may not fit in... idk. Iwas Jackson or bust a few weeks back...still kinda am but I am more okay if it doesn't happen....

Ball - Watched a lot of UCLA games actually. I hate Bryce Alford was my main take away. BUT beyond that Ball's flaws (creation, defensive awareness, that shot with close defense) all would be hidden with Simmons (and Embiid for defense). But the question is, would he be willing to play Robin to Simmons Distributor Batman (and Batgirl overall)? He doesn't strike me as much of a tool as his dad but the apple don't fall too far from the tree ya dig? Also drafting someone with legit reasons to bail for LA (because lets be real most 19-22 year olds would choose LA over Philly; Ball has the hometown aspect added to that) is scary (although I'd imagine sticking it to the Lakers for passing on him would be more of his concern; plus we would have 4-7 years to make Philly and the Team something he'd want to be apart of). Then you have to add in his dad's circus (even tho he'd still be in LA with his other two sons). This is one prospect I get both sides of the coin.

Tatum - I'll admit I hate on him mainly because Duke and I am a hater but I'm not a big fan. This makes me a hypocrite as he is a bit closer to T-Mac than Jackson . Personally tho I don't think Rudy Gay is a bad player. He is still super talented, who knows what better coaching and a winning environment could have done for him. Still I like other guys more than him. Not about taking another forward tho. Jackson's "potential" to play the 2 is one of the reasons I like him so much. Cov can't play the 2 no matter what people say IMO.

Smith - Like the idea of him more than the actual player. The injury history is scary especially with our crackpot staff. He is less of a fit than people make him out to be. I think he wants the rock in his hands rather than play off ball...but he could be our bootleg Kyrie to our bootleg LeBron (or if the Simmons at point thing doesn't work, be a nice combo with him). I don't think we take him at 3 tho.

Fox - I love me some Fox...but not for what they want to do. His jumper is streaky at best, awful at worst. But dat speed doe. He and Simmons would be a track meet at times which works with Brett's pace but not the space part beyond whoever is at the 2 and 3 being snipers. I could work but idk. I am all for them taking him tho. One of the few players I can say that with confidence; he's going to be good; potentially great if the jumper develops and unlike Jackson and Ball, his doesn't look like **** so its possible its just a reps and time thing.

Monk - again like the idea more than the player. He is in theory the perfect fit. Off ball sniper. But at 3 though? nah. Taking Monk would mean he'd have to be much better than that. His handle and creation ability would have to have been hidden by Cal otherwise you are taking Super Lou Williams at 3....and I loved Lou when he was here. However, barring his jumper not being real, don't think there is anyway Monk isn't at least servicable for his career., Shooters are valuable. Not sure you tank for one.

Issac - I like Issac a lot. Not sure if we can come out of this draft with a long term powerforward tho...so much of his upside is tied to his or Simmons ability to play the 3 or rather guard it. I like him more as a fall back plan if we trade back and get another pick to get us a guard as well. If he reaches is peak however, he is the perfect NBA player. Can stretch the floor and switch on everything...plus in that scenario his does have some slight creation skills. The defense would be filthy too.

Others
Mitchell - Like him a lot; mainly because I was suspecting to fall to 8 or some **** so I needed a few "sleepers". He would be a damn good fit for us. Not at 3 because more higher upside guys would be on board then.

Frank - eh. Like the measurables but Exum and Mudiay bombing has me warry.

Lauri - The type of prospect I never cape for.Soft Bigs are the worst. Hope he bucks that tho.

Collins - Think he's gonna be pretty good. No more Centers tho. Embiid's health be damned.

Derrick White - sleeper guy for us in the second or late first; checks all the boxes in what we need in a guard.

Frank Jackson - Baby Bayless could learn and replace him. Another nice fit.

I'll add more hot takes later

LloydFree · Post #431 » by **LloydFree** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:19 am

Mik317 wrote:ok **** it. I'm bored as **** and have been sneak dissing others takes on prospects so its time I put my bad takes out there for time to capsule.

Fultz- Didn't watch him much; didn't want to get attached and require us to get the first pick; still not looking too deep into him. Based off of surface level knowledge, I think he is a fantastic fit for us. Let it be known I am too stupid and lazy to truly get analytics so any flaws he has on that end I don't get or see. If we could pick a guard (not neccearily the best player) from this draft as a fit and upside guy, he'd be it.

Jackson - Time for another revelation; Tracy McGrady is one of my favorite players of all time. The 6'6-6'8 scorer is something I have wanted to watch up close for a long time. Hence my lust over Wiggins, Mario, Winslow...and now Jackson. My track record is flawless in being **** as you can see (i still like Wiggins tho). Jackson is a guy I found myself overlooking all of his flaws and that simply isn't fair. His jumper is broken, late season surge be damned, and his history shows this. He isn't that long and thus if he can't play the 2 (either defensively or getting that shot in order...but mainly both), then his defensive profile is a lot less impressive. And yeah all of this is something he can work on and fix...but idk. I also don't think that here is the best spot for him to do so. be it the staff or forcing others and him into a box they may not fit in... idk. Iwas Jackson or bust a few weeks back...still kinda am but I am more okay if it doesn't happen....

Ball - Watched a lot of UCLA games actually. I hate Bryce Alford was my main take away. BUT beyond that Ball's flaws (creation, defensive awareness, that shot with close defense) all would be hidden with Simmons (and Embiid for defense). But the question is, would he be willing to play Robin to Simmons Distributor Batman (and Batgirl overall)? He doesn't strike me as much of a tool as his dad but the apple don't fall too far from the tree ya dig? Also drafting someone with legit reasons to bail for LA (because lets be real most 19-22 year olds would choose LA over Philly; Ball has the hometown aspect added to that) is scary (although I'd imagine sticking it to the Lakers for passing on him would be more of his concern; plus we would have 4-7 years to make Philly and the Team something he'd want to be apart of). Then you have to add in his dad's circus (even tho he'd still be in LA with his other two sons). This is one prospect I get both sides of the coin.

Tatum - I'll admit I hate on him mainly because Duke and I am a hater but I'm not a big fan. This makes me a hypocrite as he is a bit closer to T-Mac than Jackson . Personally tho I don't think Rudy Gay is a bad player. He is still super talented, who knows what better coaching and a winning environment could have done for him. Still I like other guys more than him. Not about taking another forward tho. Jackson's "potential" to play the 2 is one of the reasons I like him so much. Cov can't play the 2 no matter what people say IMO.

Smith - Like the idea of him more than the actual player. The injury history is scary especially with our crackpot staff. He is less of a fit than people make him out to be. I think he wants the rock in his hands rather than play off ball...but he could be our bootleg Kyrie to our bootleg LeBron (or if the Simmons at point thing doesn't work, be a nice combo with him). I don't think we take him at 3 tho.

Fox - I love me some Fox...but not for what they want to do. His jumper is streaky at best, awful at worst. But dat speed doe. He and Simmons would be a track meet at times which works with Brett's pace but not the space part beyond whoever is at the 2 and 3 being snipers. I could work but idk. I am all for them taking him tho. One of the few players I can say that with confidence; he's going to be good; potentially great if the jumper develops and unlike Jackson and Ball, his doesn't look like **** so its possible its just a reps and time thing.

Tatum is way more skilled than Gay, but waaaay less athletic than Gay at the same stage.

Negrodamus · Post #432 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:23 am

Mik317 wrote:ok **** it. I'm bored as **** and have been sneak dissing others takes on prospects so its time I put my bad takes out there for time to capsule.

More. Give us Isaac, Frank N, Mitchell, etc.

Skates · Post #433 » by **Skates** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:26 am

Tatum reminds me more of Pierce than Gay, not really sure there is a player with Gay's length and athleticism in the top of this draft (among wings at least).

I think this is a draft that front office people like because there are a lot of high floor guys in it, the kind that won't get you fired for picking them. The harder part is figuring out which ones can move from that floor to a much higher ceiling, with Fultz the best bet. If we can get a late lottery pick by trading/trading down, I would be happy with a solid, high floor guy like Tatum at 5-6 and taking a chance on a guy like Mitchell or DSJ or the like at 10-12. Someone will slip into that area who is a more boom/bust kind of guy, after that the next 20 picks or so are mostly role playing bigs.

LongLiveHinkie · Post #434 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:27 am

To me, the ability to create your own shot is just as important, if not more than the ability to shoot. But they go hand in hand as two skills. While Jackson has that ugly shot, I think he'll be able to get his shot whenever he wants in the NBA. Despite his wingspan or whatever, I never really cared much about wingspan to be honest. I think it's a bonus, not a necessity. Even if he's a below average shooter, he'll still give you everything else you love in a wing. He'll be able to get to the rack, play defense, run the floor, pass. And it's no given his shot doesn't develop, but basically, I'm most confident Jackson can still be good if his questionable areas don't translate than I am other prospects. For example, if Tatum can't create his own shot or consistently extend out to the 3 point line, he's going to be mediocre. Mid-range only players are becoming obsolete in the NBA. If Fox's shot doesn't translate he'll just be a lightning quick spark plug off the bench who provides energy and defense. If Isaac can't create his own shot, he'll just be a 3 and D guy with a ceiling of someone like an Ariza. Not someone you take with the #3 overall pick.

Don't forget, we still have free agency to fill needs. We can find shooting there or via trade, if Jackson's shot doesn't translate. But if it does translate he could be the best player in this draft. Better than Fultz. So I think he has a high floor and ceiling. I think people just are afraid of him because of his fit with Simmons. For example, if we had Porzingis on the team right now instead of Ben Simmons, then I think this board would be way more in favor with Jackson.

Which brings me back to that damn thing about Simmons. So tired of hearing about fit. I'm so over it. Just take the best player, worry about fit later. And if his jumpshot didn't look funky, people wouldn't be worried about it nearly as much, because his percentages aren't that bad. Aesthetics I'm convinced are the #1 reason people are hesitant over Jackson. Not results.

KrazySixersD · Post #435 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:38 am

Watch on YouTube

this is all I need to see to validate my thoughts... this is not a guy you pick with the 3rd pick lmao

Post #436 » by **GimmeDat** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:38 am

I'm pretty adamant that if Ball falls to you guys you should take him. He makes so much sense as a fit.

Mik317 · Post #437 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:40 am

never watch a draft express weakness video.

be having dudes look like they don't even deserve to be drafted lol

LloydFree · Post #438 » by **LloydFree** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:48 am

Mik317 wrote:ok **** it. I'm bored as **** and have been sneak dissing others takes on prospects so its time I put my bad takes out there for time to capsule.

Fultz- Didn't watch him much; didn't want to get attached and require us to get the first pick; still not looking too deep into him. Based off of surface level knowledge, I think he is a fantastic fit for us. Let it be known I am too stupid and lazy to truly get analytics so any flaws he has on that end I don't get or see. If we could pick a guard (not neccearily the best player) from this draft as a fit and upside guy, he'd be it.

I'll add more hot takes later

This is something that stands out to me more than most drafts. Really smart fans actually have no problem saying 'I barely watched this guy', but confidently proclaim Fultz the #1 pick. But it only seems that way on the basketball sites. When talking ball on the street or at work with fellas that I know watch a lot of ball, hardly anybody ever mentions Fultz as the guy they see as the top player. It's an interesting phenomenon.

Mik317 · Post #439 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:51 am

LloydFree wrote:
Mik317 wrote:ok **** it. I'm bored as **** and have been sneak dissing others takes on prospects so its time I put my bad takes out there for time to capsule.

Fultz- Didn't watch him much; didn't want to get attached and require us to get the first pick; still not looking too deep into him. Based off of surface level knowledge, I think he is a fantastic fit for us. Let it be known I am too stupid and lazy to truly get analytics so any flaws he has on that end I don't get or see. If we could pick a guard (not neccearily the best player) from this draft as a fit and upside guy, he'd be it.

I'll add more hot takes later

This is something that stands out to me more than most drafts. Really smart fans actually have no problem saying 'I barely watched this guy', but confidently proclaim Fultz the #1 pick. But it only seems that way on the basketball sites. When talking ball on the street or at work with fellas I know watch a lot of ball, hardly anybody ever mentions Fultz as the guy they see as the top player. It's an interesting phenomenon.

I'm not even gonna front all of my knowledge of Fultz is from what others told me about him...I imagine its the same for a lot of people. Washington played stupid late and often was getting bodied and again I didn't want to get too attached so I avoided a deep dive.

LongLiveHinkie · Post #440 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:52 am

Fultz is the top rated player almost unanimously by scouts, executives, and draft pundits. But hey, if "guys on the street" don't even mention him, then those scouts and execs must be out of their element.