FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan

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FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#1 » by ardee » Sat Jun 3, 2017 10:21 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:


Image

1986 Larry Bird
2017 Draymond Green
1997 Alonzo Mourning
2006 Chauncey Billups
2017 Gordon Hayward
2001 Rick Fox
1996 Ron Harper
2012 Zaza Pachulia

70sFan wrote:


Image

1977 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1970 Walt Frazier
1987 Adrian Dantley
1986 Michael Cooper
1975 Nate Thurmond
1974 Happy Hairston
1961 Sam Jones
2008 Chuck Hayes

Contestants have until 4 PM EST on Sunday to submit their write-ups, that is exactly 48 hours. Then after that, hopefully judges can submit their votes in a further 48 hours.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#2 » by 70sFan » Sun Jun 4, 2017 7:24 am

Players:

1976-77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - I don't need to say much about him. In my opinion the greatest basketball player that ever lived. Overall, I think this is the best season of his career. He bulked up at this point, so physical defenders didn't bother him like during early career, his offensive skills are at his peak and he combines still great defensive impact at this point. He doesn't have any huge weakness - great rebounder, rim protector and playmaker from the post. Some may say that he's not mobile enough to defend P&Rs but from every footage of 1970s Kareem I've seen he looks decent in that aspect. He's much better P&R defender than Shaq for example and he's more willing to step out the paint. Of course offensively its not contest - arguably the greatest scorer ever. Unstoppable (ask Walton), even more so in this particular season. He faced very strong opponents in playoffs (Ray, rookie Parish and Walton) and he completely destroyed them. Don't forget that he's one of the most refined passers from the post you can find. Extremely good at finding cuters as well as shooters.



1969-70 Walt Frazier - some people thought that I drafted him too early. That's a mistake. Clyde is ideal PG in my opinion in this tournament because he's GREAT defender, amazing ballhandler, efficient scorer and the most important thing - he's not ball dominant. I decided to take more playmaking verison of Walt who played with MVP-caliber center (Reed) but he's basicaly the same player in 1970-73 span. Extremely efficient, rarely makes mistakes. Very inteligent player, can create missmatches (he's big for a PG). Very important thing is that he's really good shooter. Not like Splash Brothers, but deadly from midrange and with decent range. You can't leave him wide open. His full court press is a terror for opponents. He's a gambler but very efficient gambler and he can also play amazing on ball defense. I can't think about any weakness weakness in his game.



1986-87 Adrian Dantey - very underrated season for AD. After watching the whole 1987 ECF last month I can tell you that he was by far the best offensive player on Pistons team. The best iso scorer in NBA history, great leader and veteran at this point. You can't guard him - he can post any player and also has great faceup game. His ability to draw the fouls is unmatched by any forward. He knows every move and use it effectively to score. Extremely inteligent player who adjusts to what defenses give him. If you press him; he will beat you with amazing quick step. If you sag him, he will wait for you. If you still doesn't defend him, he will knock down extremely efficient set shot. Hes also great shooter off the dribble. Another important fact is that he's really good dribbler for a forward. He didn't do it in Pistons, but sometimes he played P&R actions in Utah. One of the most important thing that people need to realise: HE'S NOT A BAD DEFENDER. Has some weaknesses like lack of size, weak on P&R and sometimes lack of effort. On the other hand, he's good man defender. People praise Rodman for doing a great job on Bird in 1988 but in fact it's Dantley who guarded him most of the times and he did a great job. Motivated AD is definitely a positive defender and I'm sure he will be motivated in this tournament.



1973-74 Happy Hairston - a member of one of the best teams of all time - 1972 Lakers. I decided to take a bit older version because he became even more efficient scorer. Great role player and versatile forward. Can play on both forward spots, good dribbler for a PF. Has nice touch from midrange and can drive to the basket. Very important thing for my team is his hustle and effort on the boards. He's one of the best rebounders I've ever seen. I want to point out that he's not really undersized because his listed height is without the shoes. Today he would be listed around 6'9 which is pretty good size for a combo forward. Very good defender with nice quickness and good offensive player. His main strengths on offense - offensive rebounding and midrange game after pick and pops. I'm really Happy with my choice :D

1960-61 Sam Jones - original Mr Clutch. Jones is my main off-ball threat. He's great at moving without the ball and running in transition. I don't care what people think - he's elite shooter, both off the dribble and catch and shoot. His signature bankshot is unstoppable (ask West and Oscar). Also, above average defender with good athleticism. In 1961 he played less mintues than later but it is mostly caused by Celtics depth on that positions. The next year when Bill Sharman retired he became full-time starter and did great. I had to pick him because he's ultimate winner and probably the best player ever in making game winners. He will play mostly off ball along with Clyde/Coop and spread the floor for AD/Kareem.



1985-86 Michael Cooper - amazing lockdown defender who is also shooting threat and good playmaker. I don't need anything more. Coop is perfect player to defend opponent's perimeter star. He guarded any player from Isiah Thomas to Larry Bird. Extremely athletic and quick. Moreover, he can play both as a playmaker and ballhandler and also as a off ball shooter and transition finisher. Perfect player for my (and almost any) team.



2007-08 Chuck Hayes - I have some problems with FGA restrictions but I'm happy with this choice. Chuck Hayes is another shutdown defender off the bench. He will defend the Barkleys, Malones and Garnetts of the world. What is more, he's also good passer for a (big)man. Don't be fooled with his size, you can't rebound the ball against him. He will box out you with his wide frame and extreme strength. This particular version of Chuck played at four postitons - he even spent some time as a SG. He's master of pist defense but also can shut down perimeter stars on some ocasions (for example, he did great against Pierce). Perfect for a bench forward.


1974-75 Nate Thurmond - I decided to take Thurmond for 2 reasons: to have ideal defensive option against Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan/etc which is important in this league and because I had to protect Kareem from him :)
Seriously, even as an old man in Bulls Nate was a terror for offensive bigs. He's easily the greatest man defender in NBA history. He could shut down any bigman from McAdoo to Wilt. He's also all-time great rebounder and help defender. You won't have many easy attempts at the rim with Nate the Great under the basket. He will play mostly as a 2nd center who gives Kareem break and even improves my defense in this time. What I like about Nate is that he's gifted passer so he's not liability offensively. He will shoot some of his stupid jumpers, I can't protect my team from that. But I don't care because his overall impact is huge and with him I'm sure my team will never lose toughness.



My particular write-up for this matchup will be done in a few hours ;)
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#3 » by 70sFan » Sun Jun 4, 2017 9:56 am

Rotation

PG: Walt Frazier (40 mpg)/Michael Cooper (8 mpg)
SG: Sam Jones (35 mpg)/Michael Cooper (13 mpg)
SF: Adrian Dantley (33 mpg)/Michael Cooper (10 mpg)/Happy Hairston (5 mpg)
PF: Happy Hairston (30 mpg)/Chuck Hayes (18 mpg)
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (38 mpg)/Nate Thurmond (10 mpg)

Offensive strategy

This is a sure thing that my offense is built around Kareem post game. I really like my center matchup because Mourning isn't a good option against 1977 Kareem. Zo is a tough, physical defender but he lacks size to contest Kareem shots. You can't defend skyhook when you are 6'9, no matter how strong and physical you are. Kareem faced similar defender - Willis Reed - when he was younger and although Willis did decent job Alcindor had remarkable series against Knicks as a rookie. My verison of Kareem is much stronger and more polished offensively. Clifford Ray is another player similar to Mouring and he couldn't guard him at all in 1977. Of course Mr Spaceman doesn't have anyone better to throw at Kareem. Zaza is a poor option and I don't think he will play that much in this series. I think Draymond won't guard Kareem even for a few possesions (not counting switches of course). Otherwise, I'd be even happier because he won't be effective and it negates all of Draymond's defensive impact.

I expect many double teams against Kareem but Jabbar is great passer out of the post. With Sam running and cutting without the ball I'm sure Kareem will create many easy baskets for him. Jones will also spread the floor (along with Cooper) . Micheal is also very good finisher so all double attempts on Kareem will end up shooting easy baskets. Jabbar fare very well against many defensive schemes and again, Dr Spaceman doesn't have great option to guard him straight. Mouring is also foul-prone player and I'm sure he it will be a problem for his team.

I have excellent ballhandler in Walt Frazier who know how to play with dominant low post bigman. Of course my team is talented enough not to rely on Kareem all the time. Clyde can play against anyone. Billups and Harper are good defenders and I don't want to see many Frazier isos against them. Instead, he will play many P&Rs with Hairston (and Thurmond) and he is very good in that situations. Walt is one of the best shot creators in midrange area I've ever seen so he won't take away space from Kareem. You can't sag him off because he's deadly midrange shooter and he's good, creative slasher. He's not ball dominant but in tough situations he can be my go-to guy (although I'd rather see him playing more as a playmaker). He's also very important for my offense because he can create turnovers as good as anyone. When he steal the ball, the basket is a sure thing. I'm comfortable with him running my offense and you can't throw too much help against Kareem when he has the ball because he will make you pay for that.

As I said before, Jones is my off-ball threat. Many may not believe that he's a threat from a 3 point line, but I know how gifted shooter he was. There is no way a player with such a good shooting touch can't shoot 3 at decent rate. I've seen him shooting from far away and he looks comfortable taking shots like that. What makes him so important for my team is that he's so good at cutting to the basket. He'll make Hayward work on defense. When he has to, he can also bring the ball to halfcourt but I'd rather see him running without the ball. He's also very good transition finisher. After all, he played in Auerbach's Celtics. With Clyde creating turonvers I'm sure he will score many easy baskets in tranistion. Cooper will play similar role when he will play with Frazier. He's very good 3 point shooter which is important for Kareem. Amazing in transition, good finisher under the rim. With Clyde on the bench, he will play more dribbling the ball and creating for others. He's decent playmaker who can run some P&R actions with Happy and give-and-gos with Kareem.

Happy Hairston is my hustler and garbage man. He'll play mostly as a screener and offensive crasher. He's one of the best rebounder's I've ever seen and will give me many second chance points. I don't believe Green/Bird/someone else can sag him off, because he's not only rebounding threat (similar to Rodman) but he's actually good shooter from midrange. That makes me more comfortable with Frazier running P&R actions with him. This guy is the ultimate role player.

Thurmond won't play many minutes in this series because I don't need his amazing defensive presence. Offensively, he's mostly for crashing the boards and playing some two-men actions. He can also pass from the post which gives me another dimension (but I won't do it much), He's very good at setting screens which will help Jones and Cooper become wide open. Chuck Hayes will play similar role, but with less attacking the boards. He'll be sure that Dr Spaceman won't have easy fastbreaks. Chuck is another great screen settler and he can play very well in two-men actions. He can play pick and pops and playmake from this postion (instead of shooting like Happy). I know both guys limitations but I hope it won't make my team unsuccessfull on offense. I'll try not to play both Dantley and Hayes because it'll hurt my spacing. Chuck will play mostly with Coop and Hairston.

Finaly, the most important thing - how to use Adrian Dantley? We know that he played with Jabbar in late 70s and it didn't work well. My strategy is slightly different. Dantley will play every minute when Kareem will have break and for this ~10 minutes he will be my go-to guy. We will play during that time similar to 1987 Pistons - creating isos opportiunities for him. With Kareem on the floor, he won't post up. I don't want to take away space from Jabbar. Dantley is still a huge threat from faceup situations. You can't leave him wide open because he's good set shooter. I know that he can play in a flow, this is a myth. He played good with Edwards who was post up player. He created many easy opportiunities for Mark Eaton. Now, instead of one of the worst offensive centers ever he has Jabbar. He'll be good in situation when he has the ball and Kareem fights for position. When defender come down to help against Kareem, AD will score easy points either from midrange or driving hook. He's also another great finisher in transition which makes me very dangerous with Frazier and Cooper creating turnovers.
I don't know how Dr Spaceman will defend him, but Bird is very bad idea. Dantley could score against Larry at will. Hayword is even worse option because Dantley will just post him up, which is the worst thing you can do against him. I think Draymond is the best suited to guard him. He's long enough to contest his midrange shots and he's quite strong so he won't be destoyed down low. The problem with Dantley is that he's not only a post player though. Draymond isn't quick enough to defend his first step. Green is alos very physical defender and this is not a good way to stop Dantley. AD loves drawing fouls and he's the best ever in that. Also, when Green will focus on defending Dantley he won't be as effective as a help defender which is a big plus for me.

I know my team has flaws on offense and the fit between Kareem and AD isn't perfect but I can satisfy both and the rest of my team doesn't need many touches (outside of Frazier who will dribble the ball create for others). I think my team can exploit many missmatches against this paritcular team (Kareem vs Zo/Zaza and Dantley vs Bird/Draymond) and Frazier is talented enough to handle the strong pressure of Billups/Harper). I have big advantage on the boards too which can be very important.

Defensive strategy

This is the most important thing in this series: how to defend Larry Bird? I'll focus on this later, let's start with guards.

Billups is not a huge scoring threat. He's very good shooter and playmaker, but I'm sure he won't play one on one basketball. I decided that Sam Jones will guard him. He's quick and athletic and he's also bigger than Billups which may alter his shot a bit. I'm sure Jones as a capable defender will do nice job. Anyway, I don't have to shut down Chauncey, just make him work. Besides, I'll use full court press quite a bit and Jones played in a team famous for that.

Frazier will guard Hayward. Gordon is much taller than Walt and this can be a small problem. I'm sure Clyde will do very good job though. Hayward isn't quick enough to blow him away and he's not great ballhander which may be problem against Frazier. When he will be forced to bring the ball to halfcourt, it'll be tough task for him. Frazier is really good at stealing the ball. When Sam will rest, Frazier will move to Billups and Cooper will defend Hayward. This will be even harder for Gordon as Cooper is real lockdown defender. Even though he has size advantage over both, he's not that great in using size to create for himself. I'm sure both Frazier and Cooper will do at least decent job and I believe they will make him much less efficient than usual in fact.

Kareem will defend Mouring and Zaza. Same with Thurmond, centers won't guard forwards - it's not good choice in this particular matchup. Althoguh Kareem isn't the greatest man defender I'm happy with this matchup. Mouring isn't that remarkable offensive player and I doubt Dr Spaceman will play him in the post that much. P&R actions can create some problems, but I can live with that. Kareem isn't as bad as Shaq in that aspect. Of course when Nate will play, Mouring will be useless as a scoring threat. Thurmond really made some similar players (Reed, Bellamy, Lanier, Hayes) look painful.

Then we have the toughest part - Bird and Green. Such a unique and good combination. What can I do to make Larry inefficient? The truth is that really nothing. Bird could destroy any kind of defenses. What is my gameplan against him? I'll try to guard him straight. Help will come only when he establishes deep position against Cooper in the post. Otherwise, I don't want to double him because it's not a good idea. I'd rather have Bird shooting and even scoring than playmaking and destroying my defense. I decided that Dantley will guard him. He did actually remarkable job against him in both ECFs. Dantley has a reputation of poor defender but he's actually good man defender and Bird isn't quick enough to exploit his average lateral quickness. Of course, Bird is much taller and he will shoot over AD but I can live with that. Another interesting, but good choice in my opinion will be Chuck Hayes on Bird. He's well suited to defend guy like Bird - he's stronger and will take away rebounding opportunities from him. Bird will have very tough time down low against him and Chuck is quick enough to stay in front of him on perimeter. Copper will also defend him when he will play as a forward. He has the whole history of guarding Bird and did better job than almost anyone. Overall Dantley/Hayes/Cooper combination is quite nice against Bird and I can also throw at him Happy Hairtson in some situations.

Green will be guarded either by Hairston or Hayes (in a lineup with Cooper at SF). They are both capable of doing that as they are both quick enough to defend him on perimeter. Green's spacing effect become less important with my defenders. Also, Hairston is good P&R defender and it's very important when you play against Green. I really think my forwards will fare well against Draymond as both are quick, versatile, strong and tough. I can't see Draymond making trash of Chuck Hayes, that's not possible.

His bench isn't very important in a sense of gameplanning. Fox is mostly a shooter and Harper isn't much of a threat. I already mentioned Pachulia.

One last thing is possibility of him playing smallball. He can play with a lineup like that:

PG - Billups
SG - Hayward
SF - Fox
PF - Bird
C - Green

When I have Kareem on my lineup, it will be tough to defend but I don't believe Dr Spaceman will play Green at C against Kareem much. Green is not amazing shooter and spacing effect isn't enough to overcome missmatch on the other end of the floor. When Kareem will have a break, I'll play with Hayes at 5, with Hairston/Cooper and Dantley. I can respond to this move quite well.

In the end, I want to congratulate Dr Spaceman. He created really good, balanced team. Some of the missmatches he has (mostly Hayward at SG) will be tough to overcome. He's great analythical mind and it won't be easy to win this battle. I believe that my team is well bulit to play against teams like that though and I hope judges also will consider all aspect I mentioned in this post.

Can't wait to see your write-up and good luck ;)
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#4 » by Dr Spaceman » Sun Jun 4, 2017 4:40 pm

Rotation

PG: Billups 40/Harper 8
SG: Hayward 36/Harper 12
SF: Bird 36/Fox 12
PF: Green 40/Bird 6/Fox 2
C: Mourning 38/Zaza 8/Green 2

So offensively, I envision my team to be a blur of ball movement and quick hitting post-ups, isolations and the like. I have a lot of guys on the perimeter who are knockdown shooters and can play make a fair bit with their dribble skills, and of course the matchup nightmare in Green who creates matchup problems in any situation with his unique big man skill set. My top 4 guys combined for 25.9 assists total; that would be second this season to the entire Golden State team. The ball will be moving, and finding guys.

An important tenet of my team is that there are no hiding places. Every single guy is able to create off the dribble or in the post, meaning you can't hide a weak defender. It really would take a coordinated, 5 guys on a string type of defense to be able to stop my offensive attack, and I just don't think 70s has the personnel for it. I don't think Dantley can guard Bird, and frankly I don't see a guy on the team that can. The front court is too small; Bird can just shoot over them and kill them on the glass. Kareem and Hairston are too big. There's really not an answer to this, and considering how brilliant Bird was at creating space for himself, I see this being a killer series for him.

But I don't want to focus much on 1 on 1 matchups. Basketball is a team game. 70sfan has a few weak links in the chain. For one thing, Kareem is going to struggle to contain a guy like Billups in the pick and roll. It will be fairly easy to get him involved in a screening action on damn near every possession. If he drops, Billups shoots over him. If he comes high, that ball is going to be moving, and I want to point out I have no less than 4 players in my starting lineup who are salivating at the thought of attacking a defense without Kareem in the middle. A guy WILL be open, the ball WILL find them, and considering who's on the floor this will end badly for 70s fan. I don't think he can guard my offense with a couple weak links in the chain.

I also want to point out that even if we make a concession that Dantley's man defense could be pretty good, I don't really envision Bird isoing or posting much frankly. I imagine a lot of running around screens, a lot of back cuts, a lot of spotting up, and considering the ridiculous amount of passing on my team, if Dantley falls asleep at the wheel for a single second, that's two or three points. Do you really expect 24 seconds of Dantley going step for step with Bird around a couple off ball screens? I don't.

Overall, I don't think 70s has the quickness nor athleticism to keep up with my ball movement heavy, motion, read and react offense. I think his defense will suffer with a guy being dragged out all the time by Draymond, and by the way, I have a bunch of big, bulky wings who can absolutely flex their rebounding muscle when Kareem is involved in a ball screen and Hairston is out on the perimeter. I think Bird can eat a compromised frontcourt alive and Hayward is a big, strong dude and a good rebounder himself.

And finally, with the high volume of screens I plan to set, he's going to really struggle if he tries to switch. I have five guys who can kill a switch when they get it,
Defense

Kareem is a huge problem. I won't lie about that. He has a huge reach advantage over both Zaza and Mourning. However, Mourning is a STRONG dude. Kareem was mostly a finesse player. The vast, vast majority of post offense is getting in position to score. I think it's pretty easy to envision Alonzo being able to keep KAJ off his spots with that absurd strength and make him set up higher out. I think you can bait Kareem into some tougher looks than normal with this approach. Hell hit a lot of sly hooks, but the goal is to make him less efficient, and I think Alonzo's super strength and motor allow him to do just that. Alonzo did really well against post up bigs, and has some of the GOAT defensive instincts. I'm not too worried about this, Kareem will get this, but he needs to outscore my offense. Does that seem likely?

One other thing I want to mention: An area where both of my forwards (and my point guard) excel is being pesky off ball defenders and generating lots of steals. Larry and Draymond average 4 steals between them, Draymond actually led the NBA this year. 70s is going to be making a lot of tough, tough entry passes to Kareem, and I think my forwards can absolutely feast on this opportunity. People underestimate how tough it can be to get the ball into a big, and I have a team perfectly set up to kill this.

Now, Dantley. Fortunately he happens to be exactly the type of player Bird is built to stop. Bird was an awesome post defender, and that's how Dantley made his money. Bird was strong, fought for position, and had active hands. He's not going to fall for Dantley's bag of tricks and I don't see AD being able to really blow by him either, that's not his game. I'm actually totally okay with this matchup.

In general, picture a frantic sea of hands swiped kh at three ball and going for steals; picture 30 feet of floor coverage from the DPOY Draymond, who is having defensive impact on or with the GOATs, and picture rim protection coming from Zo, maybe the best shot blocker ever and a DPOY in his own right.

Hayward is probably the weakest defender in my starting lineup, and he's pretty good frankly. I don't envision a lot of problems with Sam Jones, who while I love the guy wasn't doing much off the dribble. Staying with him shouldn't be a monstrous task.

I like 70s team a lot. I think they're one of the better ones in this tournament. But I think his style and mine just clash, and mine comes out superior. He has a lot of guys who excel at 1 on one defense, and not a lot of floor coverage; just the team to struggle with a ball-movement heavy team. He has a lot of isolation scorers, just the type of guys who can be disrupted by an active, handsy defense anchored by two DPOYs.

Now as far as my rotation goes, Alonzo and Kareem will mostly match minutes. When Kareem goes off the floor, I'm going to experiment with some Draymond at C lineups. I don't imagine this being too profitable with Kareem out there, so I'll mostly avoid it. Other than that my rotation is going to be mostly vanilla.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#5 » by Dr Spaceman » Sun Jun 4, 2017 4:54 pm

Also I will try to keep up with this thread but I am in Siberia (literally Siberia) right now and so internet is difficult to come by.

One quick thing I want to say: I don't see a full court press being effective considering Draymond can just bring the ball up.

Also, I want to congratulate 70s on building a fantastic team and especially for having the guts to take certain guys. He has a vision, and believes in it, and I hope the voters give him some love (but not too much)
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#6 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Jun 4, 2017 5:10 pm

70sFan wrote:In the end, I want to congratulate Dr Spaceman. He created really good, balanced team. Some of the missmatches he has (mostly Hayward at SG) will be tough to overcome. He's great analythical mind and it won't be easy to win this battle. I believe that my team is well bulit to play against teams like that though and I hope judges also will consider all aspect I mentioned in this post.





Dr Spaceman wrote:Also, I want to congratulate 70s on building a fantastic team and especially for having the guts to take certain guys. He has a vision, and believes in it, and I hope the voters give him some love (but not too much)



Very classy.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#7 » by 70sFan » Sun Jun 4, 2017 8:52 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:Now, Dantley. Fortunately he happens to be exactly the type of player Bird is built to stop. Bird was an awesome post defender, and that's how Dantley made his money. Bird was strong, fought for position, and had active hands. He's not going to fall for Dantley's bag of tricks and I don't see AD being able to really blow by him either, that's not his game. I'm actually totally okay with this matchup.


The point is, Bird couldn't guard Dantley in real life. He's much more than just great post player. AD can play off the dribble and he has very quick first step. If you don't want to help Larry defending Dantley, he will score at will. I know that Bird is very good and tough post defender with quick hands but it's not enough to be successful against AD.

Anyway, here are some of my videos about Dantley against the Celtics in 1987. I know it's only highlights but I watched the whole series a month ago. I can tell you objectively - Bird couldn't guard Dantley and I don't think a year younger Bird will fo a better job.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-Vg9JcNyyjL0qgMY5vTkm5O3ytvaEcs
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#8 » by ardee » Sun Jun 4, 2017 10:11 pm

This matchup IMO depends on how you perceive Dantley. If you think he's effective here, 70sFan wins. If not, Spaceman takes it.

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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#9 » by penbeast0 » Sun Jun 4, 2017 10:19 pm

70sFan wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:Now, Dantley. Fortunately he happens to be exactly the type of player Bird is built to stop. Bird was an awesome post defender, and that's how Dantley made his money. Bird was strong, fought for position, and had active hands. He's not going to fall for Dantley's bag of tricks and I don't see AD being able to really blow by him either, that's not his game. I'm actually totally okay with this matchup.


The point is, Bird couldn't guard Dantley in real life. He's much more than just great post player. AD can play off the dribble and he has very quick first step. If you don't want to help Larry defending Dantley, he will score at will. I know that Bird is very good and tough post defender with quick hands but it's not enough to be successful against AD.

Anyway, here are some of my videos about Dantley against the Celtics in 1987. I know it's only highlights but I watched the whole series a month ago. I can tell you objectively - Bird couldn't guard Dantley and I don't think a year younger Bird will fo a better job.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-Vg9JcNyyjL0qgMY5vTkm5O3ytvaEcs


The videos were great for you; they showed how badly Dantley abused Bird. Larry was biting on all the fakes, didn't have the lateral quicks to stay in front of Dantley's first step and Dantley was a lot better guarding him than visa versa (Bird still got his points but they weren't easy ones). Dr. Spaceman said Bird was too smart to fall for Dantley's tricks, that's just plain wrong; Green will eventually have to switch. This was the year that Chuck Daley actually said Dantley was the Piston's best defender (gross hyperbole with Dumars, Laimbeer, Salley, etc. but still AD was actually working on defense).

That said, Dantley is going to be used as a 3 and D guy when Kareem is on the floor which is most of the time; that's just not going to take advantage of this matchup. Especially if they get Bird out for rests when Kareem rests once this mismatch becomes apparent. And Zo is exactly the type of defender (think smaller Moses Malone plus shotblocking) that gave Kareem trouble. On the other end, Zo may never touch the ball except on putbacks and if Kareem switches off which is good; one of the big problems for Dr. Spaceman in his type of offense is that Mourning was a lousy passer with tunnel vision.

Not sure why Hayward would be bringing the ball up with Frazier on him either; Frazier is the guy who got steals against dribbles with his quick hands and he's not on the PG. I'd have almost anyone else bring it up (Bird, Green, etc.) to avoid this matchup.

Just some quick thoughts.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#10 » by BasketballFan7 » Sun Jun 4, 2017 10:30 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:Now, Dantley. Fortunately he happens to be exactly the type of player Bird is built to stop. Bird was an awesome post defender, and that's how Dantley made his money. Bird was strong, fought for position, and had active hands. He's not going to fall for Dantley's bag of tricks and I don't see AD being able to really blow by him either, that's not his game. I'm actually totally okay with this matchup.


The point is, Bird couldn't guard Dantley in real life. He's much more than just great post player. AD can play off the dribble and he has very quick first step. If you don't want to help Larry defending Dantley, he will score at will. I know that Bird is very good and tough post defender with quick hands but it's not enough to be successful against AD.

Anyway, here are some of my videos about Dantley against the Celtics in 1987. I know it's only highlights but I watched the whole series a month ago. I can tell you objectively - Bird couldn't guard Dantley and I don't think a year younger Bird will fo a better job.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-Vg9JcNyyjL0qgMY5vTkm5O3ytvaEcs


The videos were great for you; they showed how badly Dantley abused Bird. Larry was biting on all the fakes, didn't have the lateral quicks to stay in front of Dantley's first step and Dantley was a lot better guarding him than visa versa (Bird still got his points but they weren't easy ones). Dr. Spaceman said Bird was too smart to fall for Dantley's tricks, that's just plain wrong; Green will eventually have to switch. This was the year that Chuck Daley actually said Dantley was the Piston's best defender (gross hyperbole with Dumars, Laimbeer, Salley, etc. but still AD was actually working on defense).

That said, Dantley is going to be used as a 3 and D guy when Kareem is on the floor which is most of the time; that's just not going to take advantage of this matchup. Especially if they get Bird out for rests when Kareem rests once this mismatch becomes apparent. And Zo is exactly the type of defender (think smaller Moses Malone plus shotblocking) that gave Kareem trouble. On the other end, Zo may never touch the ball except on putbacks and if Kareem switches off which is good; one of the big problems for Dr. Spaceman in his type of offense is that Mourning was a lousy passer with tunnel vision.

Not sure why Hayward would be bringing the ball up with Frazier on him either; Frazier is the guy who got steals against dribbles with his quick hands and he's not on the PG. I'd have almost anyone else bring it up (Bird, Green, etc.) to avoid this matchup.

Just some quick thoughts.

Why isn't Mourning going to touch the ball? He was a 13 FGA player. I get that it isn't ideal for Spaceman's offense, but can we really as GMs just decide that a player will completely change his style? If so, I think that is a slippery slope. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you. Mourning wasn't great offensively. But to take a player based off of skill set and pigeon hole him into a role that he didn't play in real life seems like a slippery slope to me. It would be great if Mourning decided to emulate DeAndre Jordan for Spaceman, but Mourning didn't play that way.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#11 » by penbeast0 » Sun Jun 4, 2017 10:38 pm

In a quick cutting, movement offense based on passing with this many scorers around him and facing Kareem in the post, I just don't see him getting the ball in the halfcourt unless Kareem leaves him. He's a bad option in this situation and his traditional post up style doesn't fit well. He'll still get putbacks and interior passes when Kareem switches to a slasher but that's about it. I may be wrong but looking at the coaching style, players on the team, and the matchups, it looks like the difference between Bill Cartwright in NY and Bill Cartwright in Chicago.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#12 » by BasketballFan7 » Sun Jun 4, 2017 10:52 pm

penbeast0 wrote:In a quick cutting, movement offense based on passing with this many scorers around him and facing Kareem in the post, I just don't see him getting the ball in the halfcourt unless Kareem leaves him. He's a bad option in this situation and his traditional post up style doesn't fit well. He'll still get putbacks and interior passes when Kareem switches to a slasher but that's about it. I may be wrong but looking at the coaching style, players on the team, and the matchups, it looks like the difference between Bill Cartwright in NY and Bill Cartwright in Chicago.


I agree that Mourning not shooting is better for his team's offense, and I get that his volume is going to decrease if his team focuses on an offense that runs through Green and Bird, for instance. I just don't know that Mourning and, I don't know, Ewing for instance would forgo trying things on offense that the GM wants him not to do. Just my two cents.

Another example but on the other end of the spectrum: I have Wilt '67 (14 FGA). If I come upon a good matchup for him where it would be beneficial for us for him to increase his volume, I can in my game plan have him increase his FGA volume. Which would actually be more realistic IMO than Mourning turning into DAJ, as '66 Wilt was putting up 25 FGA.

Just thinking out loud.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#13 » by Dr Spaceman » Mon Jun 5, 2017 1:18 am

BasketballFan7 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
The point is, Bird couldn't guard Dantley in real life. He's much more than just great post player. AD can play off the dribble and he has very quick first step. If you don't want to help Larry defending Dantley, he will score at will. I know that Bird is very good and tough post defender with quick hands but it's not enough to be successful against AD.

Anyway, here are some of my videos about Dantley against the Celtics in 1987. I know it's only highlights but I watched the whole series a month ago. I can tell you objectively - Bird couldn't guard Dantley and I don't think a year younger Bird will fo a better job.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-Vg9JcNyyjL0qgMY5vTkm5O3ytvaEcs


The videos were great for you; they showed how badly Dantley abused Bird. Larry was biting on all the fakes, didn't have the lateral quicks to stay in front of Dantley's first step and Dantley was a lot better guarding him than visa versa (Bird still got his points but they weren't easy ones). Dr. Spaceman said Bird was too smart to fall for Dantley's tricks, that's just plain wrong; Green will eventually have to switch. This was the year that Chuck Daley actually said Dantley was the Piston's best defender (gross hyperbole with Dumars, Laimbeer, Salley, etc. but still AD was actually working on defense).

That said, Dantley is going to be used as a 3 and D guy when Kareem is on the floor which is most of the time; that's just not going to take advantage of this matchup. Especially if they get Bird out for rests when Kareem rests once this mismatch becomes apparent. And Zo is exactly the type of defender (think smaller Moses Malone plus shotblocking) that gave Kareem trouble. On the other end, Zo may never touch the ball except on putbacks and if Kareem switches off which is good; one of the big problems for Dr. Spaceman in his type of offense is that Mourning was a lousy passer with tunnel vision.

Not sure why Hayward would be bringing the ball up with Frazier on him either; Frazier is the guy who got steals against dribbles with his quick hands and he's not on the PG. I'd have almost anyone else bring it up (Bird, Green, etc.) to avoid this matchup.

Just some quick thoughts.

Why isn't Mourning going to touch the ball? He was a 13 FGA player. I get that it isn't ideal for Spaceman's offense, but can we really as GMs just decide that a player will completely change his style? If so, I think that is a slippery slope. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you. Mourning wasn't great offensively. But to take a player based off of skill set and pigeon hole him into a role that he didn't play in real life seems like a slippery slope to me. It would be great if Mourning decided to emulate DeAndre Jordan for Spaceman, but Mourning didn't play that way.


I'm just gonna say I specifically drafted this team to make this question easier for people. There were other defensive aces I could've drafted with that spot, but I chose Mourning for his IQ and personality. You'll notice that with pretty much all the guys on my roster. Mourning was a guy who found a way to be extremely effective in a bench role later on in his career in Miami, being extremely efficient on low volume. Me personally, I think it's very reasonable he could've done the same a few years earlier being a fierce competitor and a guy all his teammates absolutely adored. If you think he's too dumb to make that transition though, then I guess that's that.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#14 » by drza » Mon Jun 5, 2017 2:43 am

Hmm. This is a very interesting match-up, and in a lot of ways it breaks down to a traditional vs present day stylistic approach. 70sFan built a team with two post players on offense, a point guard that's good at 1-on-1 and post entry, a shooting wing and a garbageman big man at the PF. This feels like an absolute template for 70s style ball.

Spaceman, on the other hand, put together a squad that frankly seems like they have both the personnel and the aptitude to be the offensive version of the current Warriors. Billups and Hayward are both shooter/scorers that can operate both on and off the ball. Larry Bird is the offensive savant that facilitates ball movement and spacing like he was born for the current/modern game; and Draymond is the same Draymond that he is for the Dubs.

It seems, to me, that the stylistic clash favors Spaceman because of all the mismatches that he can create and take advantage of, and how his team can have the kind of quick-strike offensive binges that I'm watching the Dubs use to put away the Cavs. The Cavs tonight got great offensive output from LeBron and Love, and solid output from Kyrie, but in the end the Warriors were just scoring from too many angles, too easily. I feel like this would play out here, as well. Kareem is a 1-on-1 monster that's going to get his...I can see Dantley, Frazier, Jones getting their's to an extent as well...but I don't see a lot of easy possessions. I see their offense working hard on each possession, a lot of post-ups with lots of dribbling, not a lot of assists, not a lot of 3-pointers. But...

On the other side of the ball, I see Spaceman running their offense through Draymond as the full-time point guard. Draymond is bringing it up (which negates Frazier's strength as an on-ball hawk); Draymond is initiating an offense with three elite shooter/scorers with consistent, volume 3-point range; Zo is pretty much a garbageman, but considering how much Kareem would be called upon to help away from the rim he should be able to score a high-efficiency double-figures just off putbacks and imbalanced alley-oop type entries. But I'm seeing a lot of ball movement, a lot of easy long-range shots, and just a much more efficient offense overall.

Defensively, again, 70s has some strong 1-on-1 defenders. But they aren't built to stop the type of ball-movement/motion approach that we're seeing from the Warriors (really, the template for Spaceman's team IMO). Happy and Hayes are mobile for bigs, but they aren't built to defend a point guard. Chauncey and Draymond can both run the pick-and-roll as a staple play to create mismatches. Bird will get a lot of touches, but he'll be facing a defense that is likely already off balance before Bird even gets the ball. That is not a recipe for success. And with all of these great passers and shooters, Kareem is going to have to come out, which lets Zo be very effective even as a low-volume player on offense.

When Spaceman is on defense, again, I see Kareem getting his numbers because Zo can't stop him. But...Zo can make him work. Meanwhile, Draymond is a perineal DPoY candidate because of his help defensive abilities. I just feel like, much like on offense, Spaceman's team is built to be a team stronger than the individual parts whereas 70s squad is built to be strong individuals.

Initial impression is Spaceman in 5, but will be following the thread to see if someone changes my perspective
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#15 » by Dr Spaceman » Mon Jun 5, 2017 2:44 am

70sFan wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:Now, Dantley. Fortunately he happens to be exactly the type of player Bird is built to stop. Bird was an awesome post defender, and that's how Dantley made his money. Bird was strong, fought for position, and had active hands. He's not going to fall for Dantley's bag of tricks and I don't see AD being able to really blow by him either, that's not his game. I'm actually totally okay with this matchup.


The point is, Bird couldn't guard Dantley in real life. He's much more than just great post player. AD can play off the dribble and he has very quick first step. If you don't want to help Larry defending Dantley, he will score at will. I know that Bird is very good and tough post defender with quick hands but it's not enough to be successful against AD.

Anyway, here are some of my videos about Dantley against the Celtics in 1987. I know it's only highlights but I watched the whole series a month ago. I can tell you objectively - Bird couldn't guard Dantley and I don't think a year younger Bird will fo a better job.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-Vg9JcNyyjL0qgMY5vTkm5O3ytvaEcs


I will respond to this later (and feel free to rebut my posts as well) but worth noting this is from 87 and the difference between one year actually is quite significant. The C's defense fell off by 4 points/100 between the two years and Bird's back is a big reason why.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#16 » by ElGee » Mon Jun 5, 2017 2:49 am

I'm not buying into the Bird-Dantley thing. To me it's kind of like saying, Curry can't guard Kyrie so the Warriors are in real trouble! It's just too much of a focus on isolation, and it's not the kind of matchup that pressures the defense that much because Adrian Dantley isn't a great passer. If he were he'd be Charles Barkley. Global Offense is what matters. I'm not going to harp on AD too much because I've spent half my life adjusting his value from his gaudy PPG numbers.

I will say that, while I question how much ball-stopping Mourning will do (a bit) because a tiger has stripes, Dantley and Kareem have played together! Yes, this is a more mature version that played on a more balanced team in Detroit, but the team also improved when they traded him away for a player with a lower time of possession. I applaud 70's fan for drafting a lighting rod, but I see a guy in AD who struggled to really help good teams in real life, so it's curious to see how that works in a fantasy league. I mean, even Billups pounded the ball too much during his career at times and was never part of an elite offensive unit -- he'd have to buy in to the hot-potato offense that Green and Bird would spearhead.

Quick blush: If Billups and Mourning buy in, I really like the synergy that Spaceman has created. A very high ceiling on offense, and some formidable chops on defense with two DPOYs and kind of a 3rd big in Bird (I prefer Bird at the 4 typically). The bench players are all strong defenders as well. 70's Team is interesting because it's mostly pre 3-point era. Do we give Jones credit for being an outside shooter? Hard to say -- he clearly was, but it's risky simply assuming someone will be a high-level 3-point shooter on volume. The Frazier/KAJ pairing is also interesting -- I think both need the ball to their thing, and am not sure how they play off each other. I suppose Clyde moves fairly well off ball cutting. The 80's Celtics and Lakers were the pinnacle of non-3 efficiency, and they did it with insane passing, shooting and transition. Hard to see that replicated here.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#17 » by 70sFan » Mon Jun 5, 2017 9:59 am

I knew that late 70s Lakers would be mentioned quickly when I drafted Dantley. Fortunately, this is not an example of Dantley not having positive impact.

In 1978 Dantley played 56 games for Lakers. The Lakers went with him 35-21 which is decent considering that in late 70s we don't have any superteams. The Lakers went without him 10-16. Well, some people would say that it's because of Kareem absence and that can be true.

Next year Dantley missed 20 games. In 60 games he played the Lakers were 37-23 which is again quite decent. 10-12 without him. Kareem missed only 2 games in the whole season so he's not the factor here. So we basically have something like that:

Lakers without Dantley: 20-28 (on pace for 34 wins)
Lakers with Dantley: 72-44 (on pace for 51 wins)

The difference is quite large in fact, don't you think?

Also, I don't know why do you think that Dantley and Kareem duo can't work on offense. 1978 Lakers were 3rd offense in the league (+2.4 ORtg). 1979 Lakers were 5th offense in the league (+2.3 ORtg). Unfortunately, I can't tell you how much better Lakers were offensively when Dantley played. I can't find stats for single games.

Also, Lakers didn't improve because they traded him for lower volume player. I think there might have been something about drafting MAGIC JOHNSON. Don't you think that is possible? Besides, 1980 Lakers were +4.2 ORtg. I think Lakers with healthy Dantley could approach that. The difference is not huge when you factor how valuable rookie Magic was.

I want to point out that although AD isn't great playmaker, he's very gifted passer out of the double teams. You can't just double him andwait for turnover.

I don't focus too much on isolations, but Bird defending Dantley is real problem for Dr Spaceman. Firstly, defending AD full-time is a huge risk of foul trouble. I don't fear his offense too much with Bird on the bench. If Bird didn't foul him, he wouldn't defend him at all. This is a big problem. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Besides, it's not like my tean would only play isolations and wait for help. I have Coop and Jones who are real off-ball threats. I have Walt Frazier who isn't ball dominant and doesn't have to have the ball all the time. I have Happy who is good midrange shooter and great offensive rebounder. Even Chuck is very valuable because his screens and two-man game. I have only 2 players who need the ball in his hands. Kareem is one of the best options in NBA history to have the ball in his hands. He's not selfish and can playmake as good as any center. His moves are quick and refined. Mourining doesn't have size to take away his passing game.

The last thing is my transition game. Frazier is probably the best ever at creating turnovers on passing lanes and I have Dantley, Jones and Cooper as transition finishers. There are not many players better in that aspect. My passing is just fine, the only player with questionable passing ability is Hairston but he's a garbage man. He won't have the ball that much and he's adept enough to do simple passes and handoffs. Frazier played on Knicks who are probably the most selfless team in NBA history. He played with Earl Monroe, Willis Reed, Dave Debusschere. He can be a go-to guy, but it's not my gameplan here.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#18 » by penbeast0 » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:23 pm

Ok, going to vote. Despite my love of the great older players, Dr. Spaceman has a significant advantage in the modern rules game because the 3 point shot has replaced the post shot as the most efficient shot in the game to a large degree. Under pre 3 pointer rules, 70s Fan would win in 5 but with the added points from Billups, Bird, Hayward, Green, it should reverse this and give the victory to Dr. Spaceman.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#19 » by ElGee » Mon Jun 5, 2017 5:03 pm

70sFan wrote:I knew that late 70s Lakers would be mentioned quickly when I drafted Dantley. Fortunately, this is not an example of Dantley not having positive impact.

In 1978 Dantley played 56 games for Lakers. The Lakers went with him 35-21 which is decent considering that in late 70s we don't have any superteams. The Lakers went without him 10-16. Well, some people would say that it's because of Kareem absence and that can be true.

Next year Dantley missed 20 games. In 60 games he played the Lakers were 37-23 which is again quite decent. 10-12 without him. Kareem missed only 2 games in the whole season so he's not the factor here. So we basically have something like that:

Lakers without Dantley: 20-28 (on pace for 34 wins)
Lakers with Dantley: 72-44 (on pace for 51 wins)

The difference is quite large in fact, don't you think?

Also, I don't know why do you think that Dantley and Kareem duo can't work on offense. 1978 Lakers were 3rd offense in the league (+2.4 ORtg). 1979 Lakers were 5th offense in the league (+2.3 ORtg). Unfortunately, I can't tell you how much better Lakers were offensively when Dantley played. I can't find stats for single games.

Also, Lakers didn't improve because they traded him for lower volume player. I think there might have been something about drafting MAGIC JOHNSON. Don't you think that is possible? Besides, 1980 Lakers were +4.2 ORtg. I think Lakers with healthy Dantley could approach that. The difference is not huge when you factor how valuable rookie Magic was.

I want to point out that although AD isn't great playmaker, he's very gifted passer out of the double teams. You can't just double him andwait for turnover.

I don't focus too much on isolations, but Bird defending Dantley is real problem for Dr Spaceman. Firstly, defending AD full-time is a huge risk of foul trouble. I don't fear his offense too much with Bird on the bench. If Bird didn't foul him, he wouldn't defend him at all. This is a big problem. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Besides, it's not like my tean would only play isolations and wait for help. I have Coop and Jones who are real off-ball threats. I have Walt Frazier who isn't ball dominant and doesn't have to have the ball all the time. I have Happy who is good midrange shooter and great offensive rebounder. Even Chuck is very valuable because his screens and two-man game. I have only 2 players who need the ball in his hands. Kareem is one of the best options in NBA history to have the ball in his hands. He's not selfish and can playmake as good as any center. His moves are quick and refined. Mourining doesn't have size to take away his passing game.

The last thing is my transition game. Frazier is probably the best ever at creating turnovers on passing lanes and I have Dantley, Jones and Cooper as transition finishers. There are not many players better in that aspect. My passing is just fine, the only player with questionable passing ability is Hairston but he's a garbage man. He won't have the ball that much and he's adept enough to do simple passes and handoffs. Frazier played on Knicks who are probably the most selfless team in NBA history. He played with Earl Monroe, Willis Reed, Dave Debusschere. He can be a go-to guy, but it's not my gameplan here.


Dantley's data and impact is discussed in detail in chapter 2 (I think) of my book. This is a career pattern.

But I think you're suggesting something deeper here, which is that you're going to run the offense around Dantley. (?) And that in running the offense around Dantley, he'll somehow be able to make magic despite not being a good passer and despite not being able to do this at any point in his career well? I understand your idea to attack Bird, but I've yet to see a series where a big iso scorer like Carmelo Anthony fouls out a GOAT-level player just because he has a slightly larger advantage over him than normal. Typically, teams will react by shading/doubling if needed -- when the passer can't hurt them as much as the scorer -- or they will let the player live on an island and take 35 shots a game.

Of course, if you're not saying this, then you're suggesting that Dantley is going to do this part time (on possessions when Kareem isn't the focus, I assume). So then I have to buy that Dantley, a huge time-of-possession guy, will blend into the background and move the ball when Kareem creates an advantage and this will work well. I just don't see how Dantley adds Global Value in these situations or really "fits" into this equation well if you're saying "no, he'll be an off-ball threat that capitalizes on value that KAJ/Clyde create, or from screening/motion, or whatever else you want to do to stress the defense. You need to get waaaaaaay above +2.4 ORtg against a Larry Bird offense surrounded by 3 shooters and another brilliant passer unless you are bringing a GOAT defense to the party.

Kudos for trying to argue this, I just don't see how it materializes well.
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Re: FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs WCR1: (4) Dr Spaceman vs (5) 70sFan 

Post#20 » by wojoaderge » Mon Jun 5, 2017 6:42 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Under pre 3 pointer rules, 70s Fan would win in 5 but with the added points from Billups, Bird, Hayward, Green, it should reverse this and give the victory to Dr. Spaceman.

Future fantasy drafts could perhaps be divided into three eras - 1954-1979, 1979-2001, 2001-present
"Coach, why don't you just relax? We're not good enough to beat the Lakers. We've had a great year, why don't you just relax and cool down?"

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