2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

Negrodamus · Post #461 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 2:35 pm

Welp, sounds awful a lot like Malik Monk.

SelfishPlayer · Post #462 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 2:42 pm

Malik Monk will never get drafted in the top 5. Why? Because teams can just simply trade for short shooting guards like Garry Harris that are already proven in the NBA. Dion Waiters is also on the market...

smittybanton · Post #463 » by **smittybanton** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:00 pm

Negrodamus wrote:

Read on Twitter

Welp, sounds awful a lot like Malik Monk.

DSJ, Tatum...

ivysixer2000 · Post #464 » by **ivysixer2000** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:00 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Uh oh. Josh Jackson might not even be an option lol. Are you happy Negrodamus? Lol. Are all of you anti-Jackson fans happy now?

He did also just see the Warriors beat the brakes off the Cavs with shooters which could lead to those comments.

That said, him leaning towards shooting shouldn't be surprising, but who he thinks can shoot or develop that shot is the mystery.

May have to watch out for Tatum though.

Negrodamus · Post #465 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:00 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Uh oh. Josh Jackson might not even be an option lol. Are you happy Negrodamus? Lol. Are all of you anti-Jackson fans happy now?

Not really, I'd rather have Josh Jackson (by a pretty large margin) than Monk.

broseph13 · Post #466 » by **broseph13** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:01 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:Malik Monk will never get drafted in the top 5. Why? Because teams can just simply trade for short shooting guards like Garry Harris that are already proven in the NBA. Dion Waiters is also on the market...

Monk is waaaaay more athletic and quicker than Harris or Waiters and that's why I can see him shocking a lot of people and going top 5. He also plays with a lot more passion and desire than both of those guys.

kriss73 · Post #467 » by **kriss73** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:04 pm

Negrodamus wrote:

Read on Twitter

Welp, sounds awful a lot like Malik Monk.

Read on Twitter

More likely...

cksdayoff · Post #468 » by **cksdayoff** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:05 pm

is this guy gonna pass on josh jackson for malik monk

SelfishPlayer · Post #469 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:08 pm

broseph13 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Malik Monk will never get drafted in the top 5. Why? Because teams can just simply trade for short shooting guards like Garry Harris that are already proven in the NBA. Dion Waiters is also on the market...

Monk is waaaaay more athletic and quicker than Harris or Waiters and that's why I can see him shocking a lot of people and going top 5. He also plays with a lot more passion and desire than both of those guys.

He's overrated, Kentucky designed their offense around him just like Jamal Murray...

smittybanton · Post #470 » by **smittybanton** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:11 pm

The Case For Moving Down for Dennis Smith Jr.

I believe the top six or seven are on the same tier. I also believe that but for his ACL injury, which he has come back from admirably, DSJ is the most talented player in this draft. Markelle Fultz has two advantages over DSJ, length and 3pt shooting percentage. However, Fultz' poor free throw shooting suggests his stroke is not pure and that 40+% is not sustainable, giving him lesser of an advantage than at first glance. Also, Fultz' length against college kids should have made him a better defender or 2pt scorer than Dennis Smith Jr. or others with smaller wingspans, but it did not.

Whether DSJ is better than Fultz is beside the point. If they are comparable, then move down and get DSJ as well as another stud (Malik Monk) at #10!

Scoring. Fultz took more shots, and made a significantly higher percentage of his 3pt shots (.413 > .359). However, DSJ had a higher 2pt shot conversion rate (51.8 > 49.2). DSJ also shot a higher free throw percentage (.715 > .649). While there is little doubt that Fultz will be effective from deep, Fultz' free throw calls into question whether he can maintain a 40+% three point percentage.

Playmaking: Both are scorers, having almost identical assist to turnover ratios (1.8).

Intangibles:
Like Ben Simmons, both chose ($$$) and played for terrible teams, completing their mandatory indentured servitude without getting injured. Dennis Smith Jr played much better at home, in front of not only collegiate friends but his following in North Carolina. It explains his standout performance against Duke. He coasted on the road. DSJ stayed home in North Carolina, and his stats showed he performed substantially better for his home fans (19.6ppg) than he did on the road (15.5). [I wonder if the Charlotte Hornets will try to move up from #11 to get him? Ch-ching! They have to try, dont they?]

Home stats:
Fultz - 24ppg, 6.4asts, 4.9rbs, 1.4stls, 1.1blks, 3.2to (.507/.432/.667) (54.1% - 2pt)
DSJ - 19.6ppg, 7.3assts, 4.7rbs, 2.2stls, .6blks, 3.2to (.473/.367/.737) (53.5% - 2pt)

Again, Fultz scores more because he bangs more threes. Their efficiency inside the arc is about the same. However, DSJ distributes slightly better, shoots better at the line and creates more turnovers (2.2 > 1.4).

Like Ben Simmons, Dennis Smith Jr has been anticipated for some time. Although Markelle Fultz is a late riser, he captained USA Basketabll U-17 to gold.

Markelle Fultz is taller and has longer arms. But they didn't get him to perform better defensively than DSJ. A look at all the best guards in the NBA show that there is no prototype. [I like Donovan Mitchell. But they hype surrounding him resembles that regarding Wade Baldwin, who has one phenomenal physique but little basketball artfulness.

Fultz understands himself to be a shooting guard, but does DSJ? He played off the ball sometimes at NCSt, simply because one of their better players was a point guard as well. That said, Kyrie Irving has shown how valuable it is to have guard next to the likes of LBJ who not only can shoot but also take over a game by himself.

Again, the big difference in Markelle Fultz' favor is his three point shooting and shot-blocking from the guard position.
However, I would very slightly discount his 3pt percentage, because his poor free throw shooting suggests his stroke is not so pure.

The big difference in Dennis Smith Jr's favor is both his athleticisim and his ability to attack defenders with either hand. This is important. TJ McConnell locks D'Angelo Russell up because he knows Russell will only dribble drive left and that his right hand is just for show. He is both a limited dribbler and passer with his off hand.

Dennis Smith Jr has the ball on a string. Please, please, please check out any highlight tape of DSJ and you should notice that many of his most exciting, ferocious dunks come a) in half court, b) off of a left-handed dribble. Being wildly athletic is one thing, what makes DSJ special is that his ballhandling ability puts him in a position to use that athleticism way more often than other players.

Like Russell, Markelle Fultz is one-hand dominant (his right). This is why his game resembles Russell's (on the low side) and James Harden (on the high side). Because of their length, and because they have the knack for using the glass, which is definitely a skill, their styles can be predictable, yet effective nonetheless. And I put Donovan Mitchell in that category, somewhat.

Regardless who is better, and I think it is a close call, I would rather have DSJ at #5 along with whomever at #10, than I would want Markelle Fultz at #1 or #3.

The only reason I think Sacramento does not love having #5 and #10 is because they are so desperate for small forwards and there is a huge dearth of them in this draft. If plan to sign guards like JJ Reddick in free agency, the Sixers could go Jackson or Tatum, and Sacramento is stuck.

After Jayson Tatum and Josh Jackson, the best healthy small forward in this draft is Dillon Brooks. OG Anunoby fits well next to Buddy Hield, but only if his athleticism fully returns, otherwise he was already skill-wise challenged. Justin Jackson is weak. Stauskas-level weak.

Along with the #3 pick, the Kings should have interest in TJ McConnell and Justin Anderson. There's also our four second-round picks, as well as OKC20(x20).

Because of questions regarding his defense and play-making ability, and because Zack Collins, Lauri Markannen, Frank Ntilikina and Donovan Mitchell might all be better prospects, Malik Monk could very well be on the board at #10.
I think Sixers would enjoy getting the two most explosive guards in the draft: Dennis Smith Jr and Malik Monk.
I would bring those two off the bench with TLC, Justin Anderson and Richaun Holmes to run squads into the ground.

Beast Mode: Ben Simmons, Free Agent ($25-30/$50M), Robert Covington, Dario Saric, Joel Embiid
Small Ball: Dennis Smith Jr., Malik Monk, Timothe Luwawu, Justin Anderson, Richaun Holmes

ivysixer2000 · Post #471 » by **ivysixer2000** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:12 pm

kriss73 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:

Read on Twitter

Welp, sounds awful a lot like Malik Monk.

Read on Twitter

More likely...

That second part is more interesting.

I can't see anyway we would consider more than Jackson, Fox, or Tatum at #3 with Isaac possible.

Assuming Fultz and Ball are gone.

Negrodamus · Post #472 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:16 pm

ivysixer2000 wrote:
kriss73 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:

Read on Twitter

Welp, sounds awful a lot like Malik Monk.

Read on Twitter

More likely...

That second part is more interesting.

I can't see anyway we would consider more than Jackson, Fox, or Tatum at #3 with Isaac possible.

I mean, we're grasping at straws with this info, but "think we'll get a guy who can shoot" and talking about some players who improved their shot are not the same thing, especially with guys who shot absolutely miserably from FT (Jackson) or from 3 (Fox). I wouldn't assume shooting would be either of their strong points, but what do I know?

SelfishPlayer · Post #473 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:20 pm

What can be done isn't always what will be done...

cksdayoff · Post #474 » by **cksdayoff** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:21 pm

i know im being overly critical of a lot of prospects that the sixers have a chance of taking at #3 but as soon as they're name is called for the sixers pick, i'm gonna become their biggest fan. i will want them to succeed and live up to their potential

Unbreakable99 · Post #475 » by **Unbreakable99** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:22 pm

Read on Twitter

Negrodamus · Post #476 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:30 pm

Monk... or Ball, I guess. I'll be pretty disappointed with either.

SelfishPlayer · Post #477 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:30 pm

A very smart poster pointed out that Ball and DLo conpliment eachother well when it comes to the pick & roll, DLo is very talented running the pick and roll, while Ball is a talented spot up shooter in addition to all things fast break.

ivysixer2000 · Post #478 » by **ivysixer2000** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:32 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
ivysixer2000 wrote:
kriss73 wrote:

Read on Twitter

More likely...

That second part is more interesting.

I can't see anyway we would consider more than Jackson, Fox, or Tatum at #3 with Isaac possible.

I mean, we're grasping at straws with this info, but "think we'll get a guy who can shoot" and talking about some players who improved their shot are not the same thing, especially with guys who shot absolutely miserably from FT (Jackson) or from 3 (Fox). I wouldn't assume shooting would be either of their strong points, but what do I know?

Yeah at this point, noone really knows. I just hope we get a guy who is willing to work on his game, cause really all these prospects will need to do that. Don't want a guy just sitting there waiting on his check.

We are grasping at straws of whatever he wanted to say to the media. This close to the draft, its really all just noise, but I don't know how what he said today couldn't be affected by what he saw the Warriors do last night.

SelfishPlayer · Post #479 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:38 pm

Examples of when college point forwards make terrible NBA wings.

Watch on YouTube

smittybanton · Post #480 » by **smittybanton** » Mon Jun 5, 2017 3:47 pm

TJ Leaf has suburban driveway skills with inner-city funk. Because of his passivity, Jonathan Isaac will be only be a little better than TJ Leaf, who I think displays a healthy disrespect for his opponents. This comment is much more about how I like Leaf, who is in my top ten, than it is meant to be a diss to Isaac, who is also in my top ten.